Who's more overrated...goff or mcvay

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

51 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

It's how they upload the bug into his phone........

 

As for the original question, could be a little of both. McVay hasnt really done anything as a coach yet, while having one of the most stacked teams in the league and people keep talking about how great and innovative he is and teams are searching to find the next him.

 

Goff on the other hand also hasnt won anything and everyone already seem ready to consider him a future HOFer, along with Wentz. 

 

As for the backlash on McVay for  not going with Gurley, if it was something he just decided not to do, McVay is an idiot. But I can almost guarantee real soon we are going to hear the Rams come out and say Gurley has been playing with a serious injury and is probably scheduled for surgery to fix......

I agree that neither McVay or Goff has done anything to garner HOF talk.  

 

Both are still young so, who knows what they will do in a few years.   

 

Only the Shadow knows 

[Jobot]

Goff looked pretty bad last night.  But if you told me that would have been the end result before the game, it wouldn't have been an earth shattering take..

 

Remember when Tyrod put up 3 points on Jax?... I wonder if Rams fans (actually don't know if they exist) are looking to move on from Goff?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Or, quite a bit could be chalked up to BB having his D ready to play lights out, and with a game plan to dare the Rams to beat them with the run, which almost never needed adjustment throughout the game as it turns out. Shades of XXV, where BB took away many of the Bills passing options and shut down one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL in the process. Maybe D still matters just a little bit?

[DCOrange]

26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think Goff is a very Foles-like QB.  With a stout run game and the ability to use play action, he can light your hair on fire.

 

But he's also where Foles was a few years back in "feeling pressure" that really isn't there.  In a way, their run game and play-action have masked that they haven't developed that aspect of his game.  Belicheck peeled his chrysalis off and revealed him for the slug-like pupating thing that he is.

That might be an apt comparison, and I wouldn't want my team to sign Foles either. To me, you either sign a difference making QB or you stick with rookie contracts. Goff and Foles, to this point, are not difference makers IMO. They can get the job done if everything around them is good, but I wouldn't want to spend $20+ million per year on that; would much rather stack the rest of the roster with talent like the Rams have done up to this point.

[Philly’sFinest]

McVay was gutless coward and Goff has always been a bust IMO

 

I guess I’ll go with Goff since McVay has shown to be innovative at times.

[DallasBillsFan1]

Goff, IMO.

Goff never, ever scrambles or runs.  I guess I am jaded because of Josh Allen, but sometime it is necessary to run as QB.  Pats did a good job collapsing pocket but he needs to make decisions faster and scramble once in a while.  His DNA is definitely a pocket passer.  I also noticed that he didn't check down quick enough ... he had receivers or RB off to side but didn't pass quick enough so they could make a play ... as if he was waiting for something to open up down field.

[C.Biscuit97]

Who’s more overrated- the 23 year old quarterback who just went to the SB or the 33 year old coach who went to the SB?  Great question.  

 

Of course this board puts down MVP Mahomes because he only scored 31 points and couldn’t stop the Pats on defense.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

17 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Or, quite a bit could be chalked up to BB having his D ready to play lights out, and with a game plan to dare the Rams to beat them with the run, which almost never needed adjustment throughout the game as it turns out. Shades of XXV, where BB took away many of the Bills passing options and shut down one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL in the process. Maybe D still matters just a little bit?

 

You know I respect you quite a bit, Huds, but you seem to be misinformed.

 

From what many across the land say forget about Tom and forget about BB.  The reason why the Patriots keep winning world championships or going to the SB is because the Bills, Dolphins and Jets are so bad and can't compete against them.  

 

Please ignore the fact that we scored more points in both our games against a team that owns us than the NFC Champion Greatest Show on Turf, The Sequel did last night. 

 

Oh, and this just in:  people are stupid.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

That might be an apt comparison, and I wouldn't want my team to sign Foles either. To me, you either sign a difference making QB or you stick with rookie contracts. Goff and Foles, to this point, are not difference makers IMO. They can get the job done if everything around them is good, but I wouldn't want to spend $20+ million per year on that; would much rather stack the rest of the roster with talent like the Rams have done up to this point.

Look, Goff might not be a top 5 qb, but I don’t think teenage girls overreact more to one game than football fans.  Yeah, I’d hate if Josh Allen put together back to back seasons where he totaled 60 tds.  I definitely would be thinking about a replacement. 

[RochesterRob]

  Bill B's master plan was the size of a Manhattan phonebook while McVay's was the phonebook for Orleans County excluding Albion, Medina, and Holley.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

5 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

You know I respect you quite a bit, Huds, but you seem to be misinformed.

 

From what many across the land say forget about Tom and forget about BB.  The reason why the Patriots keep winning world championships or going to the SB is because the Bills, Dolphins and Jets are so bad and can't compete against them.  

 

Please ignore the fact that we scored more points in both our games against a team that owns us than the NFC Champion Greatest Show on Turf, The Sequel did last night. 

 

Oh, and this just in:  people are stupid.

 

 

Donuts, thanks as always for keeping it real. I am now all cleared up, and will learn to toe the company line better next time...it's our own fault that the Pats keep winning. Maybe if the Rams were coached by that new fella taking the league by storm, they would've showed up with some offense...I can't quite remember his name though?

[dpberr]

I don't think McVay is overrated.  He, however, committed the blunder that every other coach in the NFL tends to do.

 

NFL coaches sans Belichick, are very very predictable human beings.  They run the same schemes, same plays they've run all year even in big games.  The Patriots study film better than any other team.  If they know what's coming, you're in deep trouble.  It's why they were able to shut down the Chargers.  It's why they exploited the Chiefs defense.  They more than likely had a staffer study the Rams all year long.  

 

If you're a Patriots opponent and expect to beat them, you need to install a special gameplan just for them and hope your players are smart enough to figure it out in the week before the game.  Not just a play or a series, but a WHOLE PLAN.  

 

[MDH]

33 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I dont know if I would call him garbage, you have to remember who was coaching the other side.  He wasnt very good though.  Reminderme of TT without the ability to run.  Woods must have been having dejavu.

 

It wasn't just this game though, Goff struggled in several games late in the season.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

36 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

No because everyone is clamoring to hire someone in his mold...give him Oakland or Bill's roster and see how good a coach he is. 

 

You don’t crack into the nfl HC ranks at that age without being awesome. Facts are still in his favor Unfortunately for the overhyped narrative 

[Stevie Ray]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who’s more overrated- the 23 year old quarterback who just went to the SB or the 33 year old coach who went to the SB?  Great question.  

 

Of course this board puts down MVP Mahomes because he only scored 31 points and couldn’t stop the Pats on defense.  

 

Mahomes should not have lined up offside when he intercepted Brady's pass, otherwise KC would have been in the Super Bowl, so yes he deserves the put downs ?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Stevie Ray said:

 

Mahomes should not have lined up offside when he intercepted Brady's pass, otherwise KC would have been in the Super Bowl, so yes he deserves the put downs ?

 

Perhaps he should have put up more than 0 points in the first half.

 

 

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Remember the outrage earlier in the year when McDermott said that "game plan trumps talent" (or something like that)? He is getting that from seeing the Patriots and Belichek. It doesnt matter who they seem to plug in to play with Brady on BBs Patriots, they still find a way to beat you because of BBs gameplanning and schemes, or Voodoo

 

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that it helps to have 2 game plans that you practice and keep on the back-burner for playing Belichick.

 

If you go with the things that your team has used in the past he will have schemed a way to stop it.

 

The 2nd game plan is the one you use after the half when he has figured out how to stop the first one.

 

I did not watch this SB, but it sounds like Wade's D held the line pretty well till that one scoring drive and that the Rams threw a pick from the NE 4. Why is a team with Gurley on the roster having a shakey QB throwing the ball on the opponents 4 yard line...maybe i read the report wrong.

 

There are times a team just has to line up and win the 1 on 1 matches.

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Perhaps he should have put up more than 0 points in the first half.

 

 

If Josh Allen scored 31 points in the title game after passing for 50 tds while carrying the 2nd worst defense in the nfl all year, only a stupid person could somehow find a way to knock him. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

If Josh Allen scored 31 points in the title game after passing for 50 tds while carrying the 2nd worst defense in the nfl all year, only a stupid person could somehow find a way to knock him. 

 

Oh no, did someone criticize your Patsie?

 

I'm sorry, seabiscuit. I'll try not to blemish your precious again.

 

 

[Jerome007]

What I don't get, is for all the Gurley-Goff-receivers talk, their offensive line was as dominant as you can get. Sure BB can scheme as good or better than anyone, but how come the Rams OLine couldn' make holes for the run or pass protect better? Schemes help, a lot, but still, that's a head scratcher. The Pat's D Line suddenly became one of the best during the playoffs. 

 

And who else was screaming at the TV at the end of the first half? Why didn't McVay use his two timeouts? The Pats* were at their own 2 yard line. Brady took a knee so was now at the 1. With 2 timeouts, it meant 2 more plays from the one! A safety was really possible as even kneel downs become problematic frm the one yard line. And it was only 3-0 at that point. I didn't hear commentator mention that then nor since.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jerome007

[RochesterRob]

8 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that it helps to have 2 game plans that you practice and keep on the back-burner for playing Belichick.

 

If you go with the things that your team has used in the past he will have schemed a way to stop it.

 

The 2nd game plan is the one you use after the half when he has figured out how to stop the first one.

 

I did not watch this SB, but it sounds like Wade's D held the line pretty well till that one scoring drive and that the Rams threw a pick from the NE 4. Why is a team with Gurley on the roster having a shakey QB throwing the ball on the opponents 4 yard line...maybe i read the report wrong.

 

There are times a team just has to line up and win the 1 on 1 matches.

  You have to have many more counter plans than what you mentioned.  I could see adjustments in the NE plan for both offense and defense well into the 4th quarter.  As much as I hate Bill B he simply outworked McVay.  As far as the "if Mahomes were there" talk that is simply ridiculous.  Mahomes and the Chiefs had their chance on their home turf and blew it.  If Mahomes were helming the Rams the outcome would have not changed.  Some here are so invested in Mahomes that it scares me.  Do they have a Mahomes bedspread and lunchbox? 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Well when you have the best RB in the league (at least for the first 14 weeks or so) and arguably one of the top defensive talents in the league if not #1 and one of top rated young healthy QB's in the league, it's easy to look like a genius HC.

I think he has a very short window to win as once they extend Goff and others will be hard to keep the bulk of the team together.  And once a team is considered great the value of all their pending FA's becomes elevated compared to other FA with other teams

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

57 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Or, quite a bit could be chalked up to BB having his D ready to play lights out, and with a game plan to dare the Rams to beat them with the run, which almost never needed adjustment throughout the game as it turns out. Shades of XXV, where BB took away many of the Bills passing options and shut down one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL in the process. Maybe D still matters just a little bit?

 

lol just a bit 

 

(to those who still want to argue the point)   I'll say it again. 

In the regular season High Scoring Offenses get attention and excitement.  

 

In the post season .... 

 

Defense Win Championships

[Low Positive]

I don't pretend to understand the finer points of football and during the game, I thought that it was all on Goff. But this breakdown by Andy Benoit at SI explains how the Pats gameplan worked to take away what the Rams want to do. For those disinclined to read the article, it boils down to a Cover 4 scheme to take away the crossing routes that the Rams like to use and a 6 man front with the linebackers not allowing the edge runs that Rams used all year. I barely understand what the means, but what I do know is that if you give Belichick two weeks to break down film he will come up with a scheme to take away any trends that he can see on film. John Sullivan (Rams center) said that the Cover 4 was something that the Pats had not done all year. So the Pats completely changed their defense in those two weeks while the Rams kept their offense intact. So if you have to blame someone, I guess that it would have to be McVey because he prepared for the Pats like they are any other team and not one lead by the mad scientist of defensive football.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/04/bill-belichick-sean-mcvay-super-bowl-liii

[row_33]

they got beat by the Dungeon Master

 

no shame in that

 

 

[blacklabel]

I don't think either one is overrated, really. They just got beat. One of the things McVay does to help Goff is how quick they call in the play and how quickly they get up on the line so Goff can observe how the defense is lining up with McVay still in his ear for a couple more seconds. They were unable to do this last night because Patriots fans owned that stadium. With as good as the Rams have been you'd think they'd drum up a bit more interest in one of the biggest markets in America, but people in LA care more about USC than the Rams. Fans didn't travel well. It felt like a home game for NE when the Rams offense was on the field. The crowd was insanely loud nearly every time LA had the ball and when NE had the ball you could hear a mouse fart. Rams were just completely overwhelmed. I mean, they had what, three players with previous Super Bowl experience? (I might even be overshooting that, Talib is the only one I can think of that has played in a SB). Meanwhile, NE had something like 45+ players with prior Super Bowl experience. The Rams seemed caught up in the glitz and glamour of the big game while the Patriots just looked at it like another day's work. Even in the NFC Championship I thought the game looked too big for LA and it took a bogus play for them to win that one. 

[C.Biscuit97]

23 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Oh no, did someone criticize your Patsie?

 

I'm sorry, seabiscuit. I'll try not to blemish your precious again.

 

 

Thank you.  And if Josh Allen has a MVP season and loses the way Mahomes did in the championship game, please call me a moron if I try to criticize him after.

[Franco_92]

McVay turned that player we saw into a player that can get to a super bowl and win a lot of regular season games. 

Goff did not get McVay to a super bowl. 

Goff is far worse than McVay at their respective jobs, far worse. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, CommonCents said:

 The Pats game plan was simple but effective, that’s the not the first time a team did that with Goff. 

And this blueprint will be used by all of their opponents next season until they can prove they can beat it regularly. This is where Goff is either going to grow and overcome it or sink. 

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

36 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that it helps to have 2 game plans that you practice and keep on the back-burner for playing Belichick.

 

If you go with the things that your team has used in the past he will have schemed a way to stop it.

 

The 2nd game plan is the one you use after the half when he has figured out how to stop the first one.

 

BB always has a good game plan coming and makes in-game adjustments better than any other coach, he has no problem switching between schemes. That's part of the genius in the players they go after as well - they can play anything at any time and are ridiculously well coached. 

[Success]

Oh, please - McVay is 33 and Goff is just starting out, and they came within a Gilmore PI of beating the best duo of all time.

 

They’re well rated.

[row_33]

21 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

And this blueprint will be used by all of their opponents next season until they can prove they can beat it regularly. This is where Goff is either going to grow and overcome it or sink. 

 

 

 

The NFC is very competitive, always has been, 4 or 5 teams will gladly take the crown next year if the defending champ isn't up to it

 

the AFC is not so competitive, rarely has been the last 50 years.

 

okay, the Raiders/Steelers/Fish 70s was competitive and top of the game, that's about it

 

 

13 minutes ago, Success said:

Oh, please - McVay is 33 and Goff is just starting out, and they came within a Gilmore PI of beating the best duo of all time.

 

They’re well rated.

 

that's still a million miles away from actually scoring on them and winning

 

we've been say woulda/coulda/shoulda since 2001 for Pats opponents

 

just go with the flow

 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by row_33

[Mango]

1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

You know I respect you quite a bit, Huds, but you seem to be misinformed.

 

From what many across the land say forget about Tom and forget about BB.  The reason why the Patriots keep winning world championships or going to the SB is because the Bills, Dolphins and Jets are so bad and can't compete against them.  

 

Please ignore the fact that we scored more points in both our games against a team that owns us than the NFC Champion Greatest Show on Turf, The Sequel did last night. 

 

Oh, and this just in:  people are stupid.

 

 

 

 

This isn’t true. At least not how the numbers read. 

 

Brady vs:

AFCE 81-21=.794

NFL 207-62=.769

NFL sans AFCE games 126-41 = .754

 

Basically the AFCE give Brady less than 1 win per year compared to the rest of the league. Closer to one win every other year. 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, MDH said:

Goff. He plays well when Gurley is carrying  the team and he can work off play action. The moment Goff has to try and carry the team he’s not just average, he’s garbage.

 

That said McVay should have his feet held to the fire for the way he used Gurley in the NFC Championship game and the SB. Best back in the NFL and he uses a guy who wasnt on a roster late in the season with instead.

 

Despite what the Rams say, Gurley is not 100%.

[row_33]

11 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

This isn’t true. At least not how the numbers read. 

 

Brady vs:

AFCE 81-21=.794

NFL 207-62=.769

NFL sans AFCE games 126-41 = .754

 

Basically the AFCE give Brady less than 1 win per year compared to the rest of the league. Closer to one win every other year. 

 

 

 

oh please.

 

the Pats know if it comes to an emergency they can take the division with a 9-7

 

the easing of pressure is huge in this day and age for the Pats to sit back until the playoffs

how the hell can 3 teams play like such trash in your division for 18 straight seasons, or is it more?

 

 

 

Belichick and Brady would LOVE a season where they have to strategize and squeak out a 9-7, make it a challenge for them

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

oh please.

 

the Pats know if it comes to an emergency they can take the division with a 9-7

 

the easing of pressure is huge in this day and age for the Pats to sit back until the playoffs

how the hell can 3 teams play like such trash in your division for 18 straight seasons, or is it more?

 

 

 

Belichick and Brady would LOVE a season where they have to strategize and squeak out a 9-7, make it a challenge for them

 

 

 

[Mango]

17 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

oh please.

 

the Pats know if it comes to an emergency they can take the division with a 9-7

 

the easing of pressure is huge in this day and age for the Pats to sit back until the playoffs

how the hell can 3 teams play like such trash in your division for 18 straight seasons, or is it more?

 

 

 

Belichick and Brady would LOVE a season where they have to strategize and squeak out a 9-7, make it a challenge for them

 

 

 

 

That has literally never happened in the Brady era......

 

I would go the other way. The reason for the futility in the AFCE is because they have to play Brady twice per year. The division hasn’t really been as bad as it seems. I don’t think there are many if any teams that would find success against Brady that often.

 

Hell, the guys SB win percentage is .666

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mango

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

Cant say I'm impressed much, looks like the typical girl you would see with a guy like him. I'd be impressed if he resembled Wade Phillip's with a girl like her....  

Difference.

 

When you look like McVay and have a girl like that, you got  "game".

 

When you look like Wade Phillips and have a girl like that, you got  "$$$$" .

[iinii]

As Edward G. told Steve McQueen in Cincinnati Kid, “ you’re pretty good kid, but as long as I am around you will still be second best.” 

Young hot shot coaches <the hoodie

[dollars 2 donuts]

31 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

This isn’t true. At least not how the numbers read. 

 

Brady vs:

AFCE 81-21=.794

NFL 207-62=.769

NFL sans AFCE games 126-41 = .754

 

Basically the AFCE give Brady less than 1 win per year compared to the rest of the league. Closer to one win every other year. 

 

 

 

 

I was being sarcastic, Mango.