GoBills808 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 58 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: People who have an education on the subject and help people overcome there bad choices in life. Do you realise that rather than admit that maybe there could be a better way of dealing with these types of situations. Youve argued on a subject you have no knowledge of and tried to judge the intentions and character of people you dont even know. Just to let you know. Sometimes I catch myself doing the same things you are doing. 85% of society does it. If we arnt trying to help a person better themselves we probably shouldnt judge em. Just thought Id point a few things out to ya. Let me guess...you have an undergraduate degree in psychology. And that’s being generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) On 2/1/2019 at 5:54 AM, MJS said: That's a ridiculous statement. People make mistakes so we should feel bad for this kid because he beat the snot out of a defenseless woman laying on the ground? Don't project this kid's messed up actions on the rest of society. Most people do not beat up defenseless girls laying on the ground. We all make mistakes, but some mistakes are far more serious than others. Regardless of telhe mistake and regardless of how common it is, you have to suffer the consequences of your actions. Unfortunately it seems like this kid will still get drafted and make millions of dollars. Talk about a ridiculous statement, here you are joining the crew. Where does anyone say we should feel bad for him? Where does anyone project his actions on anything? Expressing an understanding that everyone makes mistakes isn't projecting Simmons' actions on anyone. More, where is anyone saying someone won't suffer consequences. Simmons has already suffered consequences and will likely continue to do so. He is likely to get drafted though this could absolutely affect where. And I don't call it unfortunate that he'll get drafted at all. What would be unfortunate was if he again hurts someone off the field. There are a lot of sentiments on both sides of this argument worthy of being disagreed with. But if you're going to do so, at least don't pretend they said something they didn't say. EDIT: Good grief, having read the last page, I can see I was wasting my time getting involved in a thread overrun by trolls, threadnappers, red herring tossers, hasty generalizers, those that don't get it, those that aren't interested in what's to be gotten, straw man makers and those who commit the argumentum ad ignorantiam. Edited February 9, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 8 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Let me guess...you have an undergraduate degree in psychology. And that’s being generous. Some people try to make the world around them better place, unfortunately I dont think youre one of them. Youre to busy pointing at everyone else rather than looking in the mirror. I actually help individuals better themselves. Im past the point of reading books and listening to lectures. Im actually using the knowledge I have and trying to pass it on. Good day Sir or Madam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 11 hours ago, noacls said: Sad that some on this board will defend woman beaters Nah. More like defending the concepts of forgiveness and redemption - concepts on which civilized society depends greatly. Simmons is a sincerely apologetic 1-time offender who committed the offense as a teenager. He's a potential blue-chip talent who is a perfect fit as a 3-tech 4-3 DT. We'd be wise to at least not write him off so quickly on the basis of this one offense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, MichaelAbdallah said: Nah. More like defending the concepts of forgiveness and redemption - concepts on which civilized society depends greatly. Simmons is a sincerely apologetic 1-time offender who committed the offense as a teenager. He's a potential blue-chip talent who is a perfect fit as a 3-tech 4-3 DT. We'd be wise to at least not write him off so quickly on the basis of this one offense. Without those two things what is the point of a person putting forward the effort to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Fact is more people would protest over a guy kneeling for the national anthem than a woman beater. Great American values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Some people try to make the world around them better place, unfortunately I dont think youre one of them. Youre to busy pointing at everyone else rather than looking in the mirror. I actually help individuals better themselves. Im past the point of reading books and listening to lectures. Im actually using the knowledge I have and trying to pass it on. Good day Sir or Madam Right. I'm not trying to 'help' or 'make the world a better place' because I'm too busy pointing at everyone else. Never mind the fact that we actually hire directly from the inmate furlough program, which is a resocialization/condition of parole for both violent and nonviolent offenders..ie exactly the kinds of people and situations relevant to the topic at hand. In other words- not only do I have firsthand knowledge of recidivism rates, assault related charges, difficulties finding employment as a convicted felon...I actually AM the person giving second chances, either to meet requirements for the parole board, to qualify for the halfway house, etc etc. Sooo...when I say that losing out on the chance to play in the NFL isn't going to ruin this guy's life, it's because I've hired people who just did 5 years for first time promotion charges because the judge was in a bad mood and his PD didn't show up to court and literally just lost 5 years of their life. I've hired guys convicted of assault and attempted murder who've been incarcerated since they were 16 and lost a hell of a lot more than a shot at playing pro football. So spare me your sanctimony...when I say I believe in second chances and rehabilitation it's because I AM people's second (and often last) chance and rehabilitation. I also know that there are consequences to people's actions, and being held accountable is how things work for 99% of us. Not being able to play in the NFL is so far down the list of consequences people suffer after assaulting someone it's downright laughable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 20 hours ago, noacls said: Sad that some on this board will defend woman beaters This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noacls Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 56 minutes ago, HappyDays said: This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. I understand where you are coming from and that was very well said. However I believe that a women beater is right there with a rapist and child molester. Its vile and disgusting. My work in LE may cloud my thoughts on this. If I offended you I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. Nobody is questioning anyone’s ability to change. If he HADN’T changed we definitely wouldn’t be having this discussion. The question is whether not being able to play professional sports is an appropriate punishment, and my answer is an unequivocal yes. That’s not a ‘lifelong social punishment’, it’s simply an opportunity he wasted. Happens all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 4:08 PM, Rob's House said: I'd like to see the full video from the beginning and know the back story before passing judgment. I read that the girl attacked his sister and he was trying to break it up and the other girl wouldn't stop. My opinion would hinge largely on what started the fight and what this girl did to his sister. He clearly didn't unload on her because she got up a few seconds later. If he was throwing with full force she'd have been out. It's noteworthy that immediately after that he stopped the other girl (his sister?) from continuing to punch her. There's a huge distinction between hitting a girl who's attacking your sister & laying out your wife for mouthing off. And if recent events have taught us anything, it's that context matters. Interesting point. Simmons pled guilty to assault and paid a fine plus restitution to the victim. The complainant in the case also pled guilty to "disturbing the peace fighting" and paid a fine, which would seem to acknowledge some wrongdoing on her part. https://www.si.com/college-football/2016/07/26/mississippi-state-bulldogs-jeffrey-simmons-assault-case-no-contest OTOH, I can't get into the value judgements some like on whether it was "full force" or "holding back" or what-have-you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 ? On 2/9/2019 at 6:15 PM, HappyDays said: This is really missing the point. A couple people are defending what he did, I agree that that is terrible. But the majority of us are defending his ability to change. As a society we should reward such commitment to change because lifelong social punishment in the name of "justice" doesn't help anyone. Of course he won't get any more strikes, if he does something that terrible again his NFL career should be over. Honest question: what do you think the % of guys who hit woman won’t repeat it? Because I think guys who are women beaters tend to repeat the behavior more than say someone who gets caught stealing a laptop (Cam Newton’s crime in college that people used to put him down before the draft). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 On 2/8/2019 at 9:28 PM, noacls said: Sad that some on this board will defend woman beaters If we can get him in the 4th round and he says I'm sorry? ...... Maybe, everyone deserves a second chance and if you're in the NFL, a fourth and fifth chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 The injury just pushes the talent level up the board. I don’t think there’s a chance that we would’ve drafted him due to his fracas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: If we can get him in the 4th round and he says I'm sorry? ...... Maybe, everyone deserves a second chance and if you're in the NFL, a fourth and fifth chance. With a torn ACL? This sounds like a 6th round pick flyer to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: ? Honest question: what do you think the % of guys who hit woman won’t repeat it? Because I think guys who are women beaters tend to repeat the behavior more than say someone who gets caught stealing a laptop (Cam Newton’s crime in college that people used to put him down before the draft). I don’t mean to interject into a random conversation, but the problem with what you’re saying is that we don’t, as a society, judge people based on what others have done. Simmons committed a horrible crime and needs to be punished appropriately, but it’s unfair to him (and it’s a break in our systerm of justice and society) to condemn him for what he might do later. If his initial crime is enough to ban him from football, so be it. But it’s not unreasonable for teams to be interested in him if he’s shown that he’s grown past that. All that to say, with the torn ACL I would definitely take him in the 3rd if he falls that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: With a torn ACL? This sounds like a 6th round pick flyer to me We're the Bills! We overpay for everyone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: We're the Bills! We overpay for everyone.... LOL not for non process guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 3 hours ago, John from Riverside said: With a torn ACL? This sounds like a 6th round pick flyer to me Seems like the last 2 times this has occupied the player became a second round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: ? Honest question: what do you think the % of guys who hit woman won’t repeat it? Because I think guys who are women beaters tend to repeat the behavior more than say someone who gets caught stealing a laptop (Cam Newton’s crime in college that people used to put him down before the draft). I don't care what percentage of guys do it again. That logic has been used to defend all sorts of ridiculous laws. By all accounts Simmons has been a model citizen and it happened several years ago. Maybe he'll screw up again but I won't assume anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 hours ago, John from Riverside said: With a torn ACL? This sounds like a 6th round pick flyer to me Some team will take him earlier than that but if he did tear the ACL his 1st round dreams are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Sucks about his ACL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Needle Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 The judicial system failed society again and MSU is just another example of college athletics being a cesspool. MSU was convinced he was safe to put on campus with other college kids because they spoke with his family and friends? They seem like a credible source for his mental and moral upswing over the last few seasons. College football is the biggest problem. They are far more corrupt and disgusting than the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 we have 10 picks. Simmons is a top 5 talent in a position of need. Trade down, draft Simmons in 2nd/3rd round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 4th rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck204 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 If we can trade down in the 1st and pick up an extra 2nd I'd be all for taking a gamble on this guy in the 2nd round. He's a top 10 talent and by all accounts has been a model citizen in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: This'll have a major effect. I might consider him a couple of rounds down. Doubtless they'll do due diligence on him, including interviews of him, of the people involved in the incident and of people who've been witness to how his life has gone since. If they are convinced, I wouldn't mind seeing them draft a guy who would be out for a year in the third or fourth.. More, at that price, you could cut him without much worry if he had another incident of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: ? Honest question: what do you think the % of guys who hit woman won’t repeat it? Because I think guys who are women beaters tend to repeat the behavior more than say someone who gets caught stealing a laptop (Cam Newton’s crime in college that people used to put him down before the draft). The question should be more specific than that. Something more like ... of guys who hit a woman, then spend three or four years without hitting a woman or having any (off-field) violence issues ... what's the percentage who will do it again. And I don't know the answer but I know it's not 0% and I know it's not 100%. I strongly guess it's between 20% and 80% and I don't know enough to make an educated guess. And in that area, you can't depend on statistics. You have to look at the guy himself to make your decision. Edited February 13, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 If we wouldn't take Hunt there wasn't a chance Simmons was going to the Bills even in the 2nd round imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: This'll have a major effect. I might consider him a couple of rounds down. Doubtless they'll do due diligence on him, including interviews of him, of the people involved in the incident and of people who've been witness to how his life has gone since. If they are convinced, I wouldn't mind seeing them draft a guy who would be out for a year in the third or fourth.. More, at that price, you could cut him without much worry if he had another incident of some kind. They are going to interview the lady he was punching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Allen Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 2:18 PM, HappyDays said: I wouldn't have a problem drafting Simmons because the incident happened when he was in high school and he's been a model citizen since then. You'd put him on a short leash with off the field issues but it's not like he has a long history of domestic violence. He made one big mistake as a teenager. I believe in second chances. If it's true he's rehabilitated, he might be worth looking at. My guess is someone will pick him up in the second round. But I disagree with your calling it a mistake. Two plus two equals five is a mistake. Forgetting to put out the garbage can on collection day is a mistake. My first marriage - huge mistake. Beating the hell out of a girl is not a mistake, it's a conscious decision to commit a criminal assault. Calling it a mistake minimizes responsibility; there no 'oops' moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Isn't this the kid that beat up the woman who was beating up his mother ? I guess I don't have a major problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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