Illegally launching yourself into a defenseless player: Refs ignore Edelman —- but the league fines him

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Bills fans lamenting about a guy not being ejected when that part of the rule has never been enforced yet. (Or at least it isn’t able be googled) I never once said he didn’t deserve to get the penalty! I have consistently said the penalty would be the same.  They are not going kick out a star player in a close game in the NFL EVER!!  It will be some no name or person like Burfect that everyone hates.  (Also outside of Buffalo (and obviously NE) Edelman considered a little punk but not dirty.. )

 

Learn to google...

 

Quote

Williams ejected as new NFL helmet hit rule makes impact

Quote

Colts' Shamarko Thomas becomes first NFL player ejected for new helmet hit rule

 

If the rule doesn't apply to everyone (star or scrub) then the rule is worthless and doesn't live up to its intent.  Rules cant favor players because of who they are.  They are designed to keep the game fair and the players safe.  If you think otherwise then you are part of the problem in this country.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Scott7975

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Learn to google...

 

 

I see unlike the other poster you didn’t bother put in Pre Season... I stand by what I said Pre season doesn’t matter or count. 

[GoBills808]

Trevathan hit on Adams should have warranted ejection in retrospect. Same helmet-to-helmet, defenseless player rationale. He was suspended for 2 games.

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I see unlike the other poster you didn’t bother put in Pre Season... I stand by what I said Pre season doesn’t matter or count. 

 

What difference does it make?  The rule exists.  It has been enforced.  For times like Edelman it should be used.  That is why it exists.  Player safety.  It was a scumbag move and if scumbag moves aren't enforced properly then players will continue to be scumbags.

 

This is not about a Pats thing or Edelman thing for me.  I think your team is outstanding and I wish we could get back to that.  I would say the same thing about Edelman if he was on our team and pulled a scumbag move.  There is no room in football for this type of crap.  The NFL makes all these rules and calls ticky tack ***** that shouldn't be called all the time... but doesn't enforce the things that should be.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Scott7975

[ctk232]

10 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Bills fans lamenting about a guy not being ejected when that part of the rule has never been enforced yet. (Or at least it isn’t able be googled) I never once said he didn’t deserve to get the penalty! I have consistently said the penalty would be the same.  They are not going kick out a star player in a close game in the NFL EVER!!  It will be some no name or person like Burfect that everyone hates.  (Also outside of Buffalo (and obviously NE) Edelman considered a little punk but not dirty.. )

Awesome! So was a no name player in preseason... I just don’t think the NFL wants it called on a star player in a tight game.  I also think the refs missed it. (They missed a lot Monday night). Be interesting see if he gets a fine or not. 

 

Again i I am not saying he shouldn’t be penalized for it, I just think IMO expecting an ejection was reasonable. The evidence proves they don’t do that YET.

It doesn't have so much to do with Edelman as it does with the league not knowing what to do. The Execs are hopeless in responding to issues, or responding to issues that aren't there for some. They only made the rule change to show face for "protecting" players, but even they have no idea how to write the rule, or how to enforce it, and likely don't care enough to actually follow through with ejections and fines. But considering how the roughing the passer penalty calls changed and fines were levied, I'd be very surprised if Edelman doesn't get a fine here.

Edited October 31, 2018 by ctk232

[PatsFanNH]

4 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

It doesn't have so much to do with Edelman as it does with the league not knowing what to do. The Execs are hopeless in responding to issues, or responding to issues that aren't there for some. They only made the rule change to show face for "protecting" players, but even they have no idea how to write the rule, or how to enforce it, and likely don't care enough to actually follow through with ejections and fines. But considering how the roughing the passer penalty calls changed and fines were levied, I'd be very surprised if Edelman doesn't get a fine here.

^^ I agree with this 100%!! The league doesn’t care but by having this rule on the books it protects them from even legal action down the road..  

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What difference does it make?  The rule exists.  It has been enforced.  For times like Edelman it should be used.  That is why it exists.  Player safety.  It was a scumbag move and if scumbag moves aren't enforced properly then players will continue to be scumbags.

 

This is not about a Pats thing or Edelman thing for me.  I think your team is outstanding and I wish we could get back to that.  I would say the same thing about Edelman if he was on our team and pulled a scumbag move.  There is no room in football for this type of crap.  The NFL makes all these rules and calls ticky tack ***** that shouldn't be called all the time... but doesn't enforce the things that should be.

I understand what your saying, and believe it or not I don’t think we are far off. I believe the rule will never be really enforced, they did it some in pre season, and probably do it again a few more pre seasons but when the games count they do not want the refs throwing anyone out. The rule just there make them look good and get good PR.

 

in college, Edelman be kicked out. I only see this rule ever being enforced on names you need to google find out who they are.  (Well maybe Burfict Lol) 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

^^ I agree with this 100%!! The league doesn’t care but by having this rule on the books it protects them from even legal action down the road..  

You think having a rule protects them from 'legal action down the road'? Christ guy how dumb are you?

 

Do you sign those dumbass waivers and then when your family gets slaughtered by the bungee cord breaking you just shake your head and say 'well shucks, I did agree to hold them not liable'?

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

You think having a rule protects them from 'legal action down the road'? Christ guy how dumb are you?

 

Do you sign those dumbass waivers and then when your family gets slaughtered by the bungee cord breaking you just shake your head and say 'well shucks, I did agree to hold them not liable'?

Name calling classy..  No but your example is piss poor! Youbsee that waiver protects them from NORMAL accidents the bungee cord breaking is negligence and voids said contract.  Maybe you should read up a bit on the law. But if say a family member breaks an arm because they stretched their arms out.. guess what yourbshit out of luck as you signed the waiver and that was their own dang fault.

 

The rule in the eyes of a jury say 20 years out gives the elusion of the NFL trying to protect players.. being able point out say a dozen or so suspended (preseason) showed it was enforced.. thus possibly proving to a jury do diligence to protect the players. Nothing fully protects anyone as juries decisions are unpredictable but it definitely strengthens their defense.

 

[ctk232]

9 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

^^ I agree with this 100%!! The league doesn’t care but by having this rule on the books it protects them from even legal action down the road..  

Yep, infinite PR and legal ramifications avoided there, sadly often to the detriment of various plays and games.

 

The only thing I keep coming back to here is that Edelman's action wasn't in making a tackle, or football play really. He didn't need to block the guy, nor could he after calling the fair catch so the fact that he did on any level is against the rules itself (which I get was the called penalty). I can see it going either way, but for me it's the non-football action (i.e. making a tackle, inadvertent contact, etc.) in relation to targeting that keeps me on the fence.

 

The vehemence here is amplified by the fact it was Edelman and the Pats, though.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

Name calling classy..  No but your example is piss poor! Youbsee that waiver protects them from NORMAL accidents the bungee cord breaking is negligence and voids said contract.  Maybe you should read up a bit on the law. But if say a family member breaks an arm because they stretched their arms out.. guess what yourbshit out of luck as you signed the waiver and that was their own dang fault.

 

The rule in the eyes of a jury say 20 years out gives the elusion of the NFL trying to protect players.. being able point out say a dozen or so suspended (preseason) showed it was enforced.. thus possibly proving to a jury do diligence to protect the players. Nothing fully protects anyone as juries decisions are unpredictable but it definitely strengthens their defense.

 

Username checks out. 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

That's what he does. 

 

He's a scum bag.

 

 

Part of the mind game.

 

When you are a scrappy competitor you learn pretty young to outwork the guys in front of you but not to forget to mentally fatigue the ones coming up behind you.

 

The Bills are that kid trying to join to get to that level and it's good strategy from a hardened competitor to pick and choose dirty shots like that or the Gronk hit last year to fluster the Bills.

 

The right play for the Bills is to take it as a sign that the Pats are actually concerned about them..............it's not disrespect it's part of the gameplan.

 

[Plano]

put him on any other team and he's literally never heard of. He should thank his lucky stars that he has Tom Brady throwing to him.

 

He would not even make an NFL roster without Brady.

 

He's a skinny douche with almost no muscle mass. I've been in the same room as him before and I looked like more of an NFL player than he did. He's tiny.

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Plano

[KD in CA]

Remind me to be sad next time he gets a concussion.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Do we not always find it most entertaining/hilarious when the Pats lose and b*tch about dirty play?

 

Hilarious.?

 

So just know that your angry b*tching about that little cheap shot just makes it that much more entertaining for Pats fans.

 

[34-78-83]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Part of the mind game.

 

When you are a scrappy competitor you learn pretty young to outwork the guys in front of you but not to forget to mentally fatigue the ones coming up behind you.

 

The Bills are that kid trying to join to get to that level and it's good strategy from a hardened competitor to pick and choose dirty shots like that or the Gronk hit last year to fluster the Bills.

 

The right play for the Bills is to take it as a sign that the Pats are actually concerned about them..............it's not disrespect it's part of the gameplan.

 

you believe the Gronk hit on Tre white was calculated in any way?

WOW the levels that we have gone to in our Patriot folklore!

I didn't think you were susceptible to such things?

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I apologize for not doing my own research, but did anyone ask McDermott about this play?

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

you believe the Gronk hit on Tre white was calculated in any way?

WOW the levels that we have gone to in our Patriot folklore!

I didn't think you were susceptible to such things?

 

I believe he thought about it first. It was well after the play. 

[pkwwjd]

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/9/6/17773282/nfl-helmet-rule-explained-rulebook-penalty-replay

 

Quote from article "Patriots coach Bill Belichick said the team has never coached players to tackle with the crown of their helmet because it’s ineffective, and that the rule change won’t affect the way the New England coaching staff handles its business."

 

Right ... but this wasn't tackling, this was part of the intimidation process

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/06/new-nfl-helmet-lowering-rule-changes-explained

 

Quote from article "Plays subject to ejection include when a player has an "unobstructed path" to his opponent or "contact was clearly avoidable," but the player chose to lower his head and use his helmet."

 

Blocking a player after a fair catch, immediately being "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" (not unnecessary roughness as PatsFanNH likes to keep saying incorrectly) would seem to be the perfect example of the wording of the rule from the SI article ... unobstructed path & contact was clearly unavoidable. Yes, PatsFanNH, he was called for one penalty. He should have been called for both (to include unnecessary roughness) and immediately ejected because of the obvious way in which his actions followed precisely how the rule was written.

[Augie]

That’s just dirty crap, and yes I believe you’d get tossed for that in college. 

 

On a side note, I’m glad we have a little hate left over for the other team.   ?

[34-78-83]

52 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I believe he thought about it first. It was well after the play. 

Not saying thought about it. It seemed it was implied that it was an organizational strategy as opposed to an emotional reaction by a dumb Neanderthal of a person.

[Nervous Guy]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

In real time (which is the only time that matters) it didn’t look that way at all. Now your expecting refs, who are bad at their job anyways, to somehow slow it down m and see it? 

Actually it’s the same penalty.. it’s 15 yards or half the distance to the goal. Only difference is they COULD eject him... I have yet to see an ejection but they could do that.. 

Targeting is reviewable in the NFL, just like college.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/5/22/17369164/nfl-rule-change-ejections-reviewable-spring-league-meeting-2018

[YoloinOhio]

45 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Not saying thought about it. It seemed it was implied that it was an organizational strategy as opposed to an emotional reaction by a dumb Neanderthal of a person.

Sorry, I misread...  yeah it was totally him

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Not saying thought about it. It seemed it was implied that it was an organizational strategy as opposed to an emotional reaction by a dumb Neanderthal of a person.

 

 

Like I said some of you clearly don't understand the psychology behind keeping a beaten opponent down.

 

I only wish the 90's Bills had that kind of mindset.......but they were a much more talented team that leaned heavily on their talent advantage and didn't want to risk retaliation/injuries.    Aside from Brady the other 52 Patriots are always disposable.

[Teddy KGB]

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Like I said some of you clearly don't understand the psychology behind keeping a beaten opponent down.

 

[starrymessenger]

I derive no pleasure in seeing players go down with injury, whether they are Bills or opposing players. These guys work too hard for too long to make good in a narrow window of opportunity. But if I guy looks to injure another player, Gronk on Tre, Landry on Williams, then I'm fine with playing with intent to take that guy out if and when you get the chance. In fact I think it's the right thing to do. 

[row_33]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Like I said some of you clearly don't understand the psychology behind keeping a beaten opponent down.

 

I only wish the 90's Bills had that kind of mindset.......but they were a much more talented team that leaned heavily on their talent advantage and didn't want to risk retaliation/injuries.    Aside from Brady the other 52 Patriots are always disposable.

 

Bruce Smtih, when on the ground, would deliberately roll into the legs of the QB and took a few out the way

 

[BigDingus]

To be fair, except for one series of plays in the 2nd half, the refs were pretty lenient & didn't flag the Bills anywhere close to what we're used to seeing. 

Still angry by the Benjamin call, but I get it's technically the rule. Doesn't sting as much since he made up for it with that big catch, but still.... And didn't Edelman get flagged for this call? I'm probably wrong, but either way I thought the game was pretty evenly called.

[Philly McButterpants]

22 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Yet the Bills do nothing to Edelman or Gronk ever 

 

IDK, Bills D was uber physical on Monday.

[34-78-83]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Like I said some of you clearly don't understand the psychology behind keeping a beaten opponent down.

 

I only wish the 90's Bills had that kind of mindset.......but they were a much more talented team that leaned heavily on their talent advantage and didn't want to risk retaliation/injuries.    Aside from Brady the other 52 Patriots are always disposable.

Sorry not buying the 1st part. He's a tool thats all it was. Respect your opinion though

 

[Matt_In_NH]

You can find dozens of missed calls like this in every game.  Let’s isolate when it’s the patriots against the bills and whine like 12 year old school girls.  

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, mattynh said:

You can find dozens of missed calls like this in every game.  Let’s isolate when it’s the patriots against the bills and whine like 12 year old school girls.  

Well ...it is a Bills message board. Sorry for not starting threads about calls in other games i didn’t see and don’t care about? 

[BADOLBILZ]

55 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Sorry not buying the 1st part. He's a tool thats all it was. Respect your opinion though

 

 

Funny how there is always a different Patriot player that's "just a tool" every year.?

 

 

 

[row_33]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Funny how there is always a different Patriot player that's "just a tool" every year.?

 

 

 

 

at least I see the talent on the Pats for this drubbing era of the Bills

 

for the Fish it was ten times worse because Miami was not that big a deal for most of the 70s drubbing era of the Bills

 

 

[34-78-83]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Funny how there is always a different Patriot player that's "just a tool" every year.?

 

 

 

To be clear I mean Gronk, not Edelman. (not sure if you knew that part)

And if you've seen Gronk operate a microphone for 10 minutes, you'd realize he is not a man of calculated nature in any realm.

 

If not, let me share how the Tre and Gronk situation actually went down (yes you could even follow it on the broadcast version)...

Tre is assigned coverage on Gronk for a significant number of plays during the game.

Tre is a supremely confident individual.

Tre doesn't talk trash on the field.

As the game progresses, Tre is taking all the same physical opportunities that Gronk usually imposes on others... (Grabbing, Holding, etc. etc.). It's constant and unrelenting.

Gronk eventually thinks (or says?) something to the effect of  "Get this little gnat off of me" (probably less PC).

Gronk pushes back, yells back, complains to the refs, etc etc. bit nothing is happening! He's not getting the calls from the ref... He addresses Tre and Tre just smiles and keeps doing what he does.

Finally the water boils over and "Gronk Smash" turns into the dumb reactive "frat boy brah" that is his true identity and always has been and he loses his self control and does the deed.

 

Please by no means proceed to try to tell anyone that Gronk has any involvement whatsoever in calculated psychological warfare and is carrying out the intended plans of high level PATS decisions of intimidation and removal of hope. It's laughable.

 

Gronk hungry - gronk eat

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[plenzmd1]

On 11/3/2018 at 5:00 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/10/nfl-fines-michael-thomas-30000-for-cell-phone-celebration/

 

So the league that says player safety is mission #1, fines a celebration more than an intent to injure hit to the head. 

 

OKey dokey

[Sandhill Mike]

"You can find dozens of 'missed' calls like this in every Pats* game."

 

There... that looks to be more accurate to me. 

 

Don't get me wrong... when you're bad, you don't get breaks from refs.  I very much equate officiating in the NFL with the way MLB umps calls strike zones.  Great pitchers get close calls and the benefit of the doubt more often than not. 

 

The Patriots are still one of the league's best and are treated accordingly...  Late hits aren't late, holds aren't holds, interference isn't interference.  Close calls on the field tend to go their way and don't get overturned due to insufficient evidence.  I'm sure KC, Pittsburgh, the Rams, or any of the league darlings (winners or star players, aka ratings) could do the same to a team like ours and smile all the way.

 

Until this team starts flat out beating some competition, they won't get the calls/non-calls in their favor...  Even on plays like the Edelman hit.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Sandhill Mike

[frostbitmic]

On 11/3/2018 at 5:00 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

That 26K is probably what Edelman spends a week on TB12 ster .... I mean juice.

Edited November 11, 2018 by frostbitmic

[RaoulDuke79]

The guys is a dirty player, I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed to see him carted off never to  play another down. 

[K-9]

On 11/1/2018 at 4:34 PM, 34-78-83 said:

To be clear I mean Gronk, not Edelman. (not sure if you knew that part)

And if you've seen Gronk operate a microphone for 10 minutes, you'd realize he is not a man of calculated nature in any realm.

 

If not, let me share how the Tre and Gronk situation actually went down (yes you could even follow it on the broadcast version)...

Tre is assigned coverage on Gronk for a significant number of plays during the game.

Tre is a supremely confident individual.

Tre doesn't talk trash on the field.

As the game progresses, Tre is taking all the same physical opportunities that Gronk usually imposes on others... (Grabbing, Holding, etc. etc.). It's constant and unrelenting.

Gronk eventually thinks (or says?) something to the effect of  "Get this little gnat off of me" (probably less PC).

Gronk pushes back, yells back, complains to the refs, etc etc. bit nothing is happening! He's not getting the calls from the ref... He addresses Tre and Tre just smiles and keeps doing what he does.

Finally the water boils over and "Gronk Smash" turns into the dumb reactive "frat boy brah" that is his true identity and always has been and he loses his self control and does the deed.

 

Please by no means proceed to try to tell anyone that Gronk has any involvement whatsoever in calculated psychological warfare and is carrying out the intended plans of high level PATS decisions of intimidation and removal of hope. It's laughable.

 

Gronk hungry - gronk eat

 

Gronk douche. 

 

Lost all the respect I had for him after that gutless act against Tre White.