Illegally launching yourself into a defenseless player: Refs ignore Edelman —- but the league fines him

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

They did the same to KB. Gilly was whining about a phantom OPI, and a play or two later, voila!

The refs missed a lot of mugging on both sides. Gronk was being mugged On the catch on the sideline and Clay? Had his armed clearly held when he didn’t hold onto the TD.  Those are just two of many.. they seem to be letting the mugging go lately.

[apuszczalowski]

The next kick he tried to call a fair catch on someone should have just speared him or took out his knees or head after he caught it. Take the penalty and I'm sure thousands of Bill's fans will take up a fund to pay the fine. 

 

The guy calls for a fair catch, then just before let's the ball go past him as the Bill's player is holding up so he wont make contact with him, then Edelman launches himself head first into the Bill's players helmet (not putting his hands up to stop or prevent him from contact, or get out of the way) trying to hit someone who was trying to hold up and not make contact with you. Classy NE/Boston way........

 

It was disappointing to see William's get back and sack Brady, but lay him down nicely instead of going through him. Almost as bad as seeing the multiple shots of Kelly all over Brady during warmups before the game.

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lol your post was screaming “fight me” but I’m not going to. Dead horse means the debate and time talk about them is done.. now if you found anything else I said wrong and like talk about it as two rational adults go for it.

There’s nothing to “fight” about,  my post screams exactly this:  the patriots have the best coach ever.  The best qb ever and lots of super bowl rings.  Fans get to enjoy those elements and talk about it to everyone.  The pats also cheated.  Multiple times, and got caught doing so.  Fans have to own those elements and deal with people talking about it.  You certainly still talk about how good you have been.  As long as you talk about being great and winning Super Bowls, others will talk about you cheating to help you get there.  If the pats having a great team isn’t a dead horse than why would the pats cheating be a dead horse?  Just take it.  

Edited October 31, 2018 by NewEra

[apuszczalowski]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s a dead horse when you’re a pats fan.  The rest of the world still calls you the cheatriots,  you’re the most hated team in the league,  because you cheat and because you have players that love to take cheap shots at other players on the reg.

 

it is what it is,  you get your props for having the best coach ever and the best qb ever.  And they cheated on their way.  Multiple times

It's a dead horse when the other person has no other way to defend it or response and just wants to drop it. Much easier to just claim that your beating a dead horse then come up with factual evidence to combat the other side in the arguement....

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

They did the same to KB. Gilly was whining about a phantom OPI, and a play or two later, voila!

I believe it was also DPI on the overturned Croom TD. I’m sure they saw it during the review, but you can’t call a penalty after review

[NewEra]

Just now, apuszczalowski said:

It's a dead horse when the other person has no other way to defend it or response and just wants to drop it. Much easier to just claim that your beating a dead horse then come up with factual evidence to combat the other side in the arguement....

Or just taking it like a man.  #bostonstrong

[PIZ]

The no flags on all of Hughes' pass rushes was ridiculous as well.

 

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

***** YOU PATRIOTS**!!

[T master]

I wonder if there is any way that the Bills can bring this up to the NFL in some way & have him at the very least fined for the hit ?

 

They talk a big game about doing away with head trauma but this was blatantly a targeted thing it looks as if he first eyes him up then lowers his head intentionally & launches into him & i don't know how any one could see that any different unless they are playing favorites !! 

[LSHMEAB]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I believe it was also DPI on the overturned Croom TD. I’m sure they saw it during the review, but you can’t call a penalty after review

It was definitely interference.

 

The refs didn't cost us this game. It wasn't egregiously officiated, but they definitely make sure the Pats get the 50/50 calls.

 

What irks me as much if not more than bad calls is when officials succumb to pressure/whining and end up calling something on the next play. If you're an official, your job is to dispassionately call the game. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[apuszczalowski]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Or just taking it like a man.  #bostonstrong

Not possible in NE/Bahston....

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

It was definitely interference.

 

The refs didn't cost us this game. It wasn't egregiously officiated, but they definitely make sure the Pats get the 50/50 calls.

 

What irks me as much if not more than bad calls is when officials succumb to pressure/whining and end up calling something on the next play. If you're an official, you're job is to dispassionately call the game. 

Of course not, it was the 2 turnovers. But it’s still awful to see some of this.

[Success]

There really is no excuse for the missed call.  It’s not like a missed holding call where the ref has a bunch of things to have to monitor.

 

I hope the shoe is on the other foot one of these days.  Tough trying to beat a superior team AND the officials, twice a year.

[row_33]

13 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

What irks me as much if not more than bad calls is when officials succumb to pressure/whining and end up calling something on the next play. If you're an official, your job is to dispassionately call the game. 

 

not at all, the better team creates more interest in the game and gets nuance on the rules

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

He's a huge douche. Who is completely replaceable and nothing special. 

 

They should have this call. For such a seemingly concrete rule book the calls are inconsistent anyway. 

 

“Unsportsmanlike conduct.... on the receiving team.... for being a douchbag.... half the distance to the goal and a putative kick to the nuts” 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

They should have this call. For such a seemingly concrete rule book the calls are inconsistent anyway. 

 

“Unsportsmanlike conduct.... on the receiving team.... for being a douchbag.... half the distance to the goal and a putative kick to the nuts” 

 

I love it. This would be the rule to finally end the Patriots reign of terror. Just like holding, you'd be able to call it on every play. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

They should have this call. For such a seemingly concrete rule book the calls are inconsistent anyway. 

 

“Unsportsmanlike conduct.... on the receiving team.... for being a douchbag.... half the distance to the goal and a putative kick to the nuts” 

He would get flagged every team he obnoxiously signals 1st down 

 

did you catch on the pregame show how he calls tom Brady “Babe”? Wtf

 

Edelman: ”He’s a ‘Baber’”

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

37 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

The refs missed a lot of mugging on both sides. Gronk was being mugged On the catch on the sideline and Clay? Had his armed clearly held when he didn’t hold onto the TD.  Those are just two of many.. they seem to be letting the mugging go lately.

 

Nothing influences these match ups more than how the WR DB interactions are called.  It’s crazy how inconsistent it is from game to game and how it completely changes the competitive landscape week to week , crew to crew.

 

I’m flexible on the less contact allowed or more,  but just wish it would be consistent through the season. 

 

Im also really not sure what illegal formation stuff adds to the game. There are 11 men on both sides.  Let them stand where they want before the snap

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He would get flagged every team he obnoxiously signals 1st down 

 

did you catch on the pregame show how he calls tom Brady “Babe”? Wtf

 

Edelman: ”He’s a ‘Baber’”

 

I saw that. Also it was reference to Brady apparent calling everyone ‘babe’.  Hence him saying Brady is a ‘baber’.

 

i wanted that win almost as much as Jax last year. 

 

So disappointed they had that shot to blow tommy up on that 7 yard scramble and Tre whiffed. Would have been even better vengence  for the gronk hit than hitting gronk. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[ctk232]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

How did they ignore it? He got called for a personal foul for it?? Not sure what else you expected to happen by the refs.

 

unlike Gronk who did his idiocy way after the play was done, Edelman was during the play and seeing as both their heads knocked together I don’t BELIEVE he was trying for helmet to helmet.. but again it was called.

It's not that they ignored it, it's that we believe they ignored the severity of the hit. In real time it may not look it, but clearly Edelman calls for the fair catch, abandons the catch and literally launches into Pitts leading with his helmet, hitting Pitts straight in the facemask. Regardless of whether he was trying for the helmet or not, it's highly suspect a more severe penalty wasn't levied. 

 

[plenzmd1]

2 hours ago, Talonz said:

How doesn't he get tossed for that?   That was such a blatant helmet to helmet that there should of been no doubt an ejection was warranted.   Pitts could have easily got a concussion from this.  

 

My hate for the Patriots goes so beyond them just kicking our ass every year.   I can't stand to watch them, no matter how good they are, and I am someone who appreciates good football no matter the team, especially since Buffalo has been what they've been for going on two decades...

which includes the vast majority of Pats fans who travel in groups in Buffalo

[PatsFanNH]

23 minutes ago, Success said:

There really is no excuse for the missed call.  It’s not like a missed holding call where the ref has a bunch of things to have to monitor.

 

I hope the shoe is on the other foot one of these days.  Tough trying to beat a superior team AND the officials, twice a year.

Again what missed call? He was called for a personal foul and was half the distance to the goal. Are you upset because the called it for blocking after calling for a fair catch instead of for helmet to helmet?  No matter which one they called it’s the same result. Was it a dumb dumb move? Yes was he penalized for it? Yes..

[plenzmd1]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

Again what missed call? He was called for a personal foul and was half the distance to the goal. Are you upset because the called it for blocking after calling for a fair catch instead of for helmet to helmet?  No matter which one they called it’s the same result. Was it a dumb dumb move? Yes was he penalized for it? Yes..

There is a targeting rule in the NFL now..and this was targeting plain and simple. Calls for an ejection..unless you are a Pat and then the NFL will applaud your extra effort.

 

Learn the rules

[Success]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Again what missed call? He was called for a personal foul and was half the distance to the goal. Are you upset because the called it for blocking after calling for a fair catch instead of for helmet to helmet?  No matter which one they called it’s the same result. Was it a dumb dumb move? Yes was he penalized for it? Yes..

It absolutely should have been helmet to helmet.  You talk like we’re splitting hairs.  It’s a big difference, and it was blatant and looked intentional.

[PatsFanNH]

2 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

It's not that they ignored it, it's that we believe they ignored the severity of the hit. In real time it may not look it, but clearly Edelman calls for the fair catch, abandons the catch and literally launches into Pitts leading with his helmet, hitting Pitts straight in the facemask. Regardless of whether he was trying for the helmet or not, it's highly suspect a more severe penalty wasn't levied. 

 

A personal foul is a personal foul. (15 yards) The same penalty be levied no matter what the reason was given.  As you said in real speed it want obvious to the naked eye so they could very well have missed the helmet to helmet.   Now they could have called both, but the NFL dispite what it says doesn’t want that! 

[plenzmd1]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

A personal foul is a personal foul. (15 yards) The same penalty be levied no matter what the reason was given.  As you said in real speed it want obvious to the naked eye so they could very well have missed the helmet to helmet.   Now they could have called both, but the NFL dispite what it says doesn’t want that! 

targeting rule carries an ejection now if egregious..this was egregious.

 

Second time in 3 games a scumbag Pat has a disturbing dirty play against a Bill..but its the Patriot way!!! 

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

There is a targeting rule in the NFL now..and this was targeting plain and simple. Calls for an ejection..unless you are a Pat and then the NFL will applaud your extra effort.

 

Learn the rules

How many NFL Players have been kicked out so far for said rule? I googled it and it didn’t give me any number so I’m really asking. I’ve seen it called and a 15 yard penalty and all but I have not seen an ejection yet. 

[ctk232]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

A personal foul is a personal foul. (15 yards) The same penalty be levied no matter what the reason was given.  As you said in real speed it want obvious to the naked eye so they could very well have missed the helmet to helmet.   Now they could have called both, but the NFL dispite what it says doesn’t want that! 

Just providing perspective - they may have missed it in real time, but they get paid not to. Either way, many feel here that this gets called and handled very differently if it were a Bills player who chose to call off a fair catch and headbutt another guy for literally no reason whatsoever. Also known as targeting and is a heavier penalty than what was called.

Edited October 31, 2018 by ctk232

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

targeting rule carries an ejection now if egregious..this was egregious.

 

Second time in 3 games a scumbag Pat has a disturbing dirty play against a Bill..but its the Patriot way!!! 

In real time (which is the only time that matters) it didn’t look that way at all. Now your expecting refs, who are bad at their job anyways, to somehow slow it down m and see it? 

1 minute ago, ctk232 said:

Just providing perspective - they may have missed it in real time, but they get paid not to. Either way, many feel here that this gets called and handled very differently if it were a Bills player who chose to call off a fair catch and headbutt another guy for literally no reason whatsoever. Also known as targeting and is a heavier penalty than what was called.

Actually it’s the same penalty.. it’s 15 yards or half the distance to the goal. Only difference is they COULD eject him... I have yet to see an ejection but they could do that.. 

[ctk232]

4 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Actually it’s the same penalty.. it’s 15 yards or half the distance to the goal. Only difference is they COULD eject him... I have yet to see an ejection but they could do that.. 

Right, and to the perspective of this thread it's believed he deserved an ejection for it, but it wasn't called. Not disagreeing with your points, but given the divisional rivalry, Gronk's garbage on Tre last year, Edelman having a rep as a dirty player, and Brady can literally never do wrong and argue his way into or out of any call (and even has his own rule), you're barking up the wrong logic tree on this board.

Edited October 31, 2018 by ctk232

[plenzmd1]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

In real time (which is the only time that matters) it didn’t look that way at all. Now your expecting refs, who are bad at their job anyways, to somehow slow it down m and see it? 

as I said I was at the game and did not see the play..but seems pretty freaking obvious when I watched the replay last night..way before I saw this thread. Supoosed they had a hard time seeing Gronks hit last year too..I mean it was only after play being dead for two seconds..who can judge that???

[PatsFanNH]

2 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Right, and to the perspective of this thread it's believed he deserved an ejection for it, but it wasn't called. Not disagreeing with your points, but given the divisional rivalry, Gronk's garbage on Tre last year, Edelman having a rep as a dirty player, and Brady can literally never do wrong and argue his way into or out of any call (and even has his own rule), you're barking up the wrong logic tree on this board.

Lol I understand I am just hoping someone can find out if anyone ever been kicked out via that rule? I suspect if anyone would be it be Burfect over in Baltimore.  But I can’t find any data via google for it.

 

and just so it’s out there again Gronks hit was bush league and he should have gotten a minimum of 2 games for that and a huge fine for like 4 game checks.. 

3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

as I said I was at the game and did not see the play..but seems pretty freaking obvious when I watched the replay last night..way before I saw this thread. Supoosed they had a hard time seeing Gronks hit last year too..I mean it was only after play being dead for two seconds..who can judge that???

To me it was obvious in slow motion.. in real speed it looked like their heads hit accidentally during the collision..  Also I need someone provide an example or two when they have ejected anyone using this rule yet..

 

see my response above in regards to gronk lol..

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

How did they ignore it? He got called for a personal foul for it?? Not sure what else you expected to happen by the refs.

 

unlike Gronk who did his idiocy way after the play was done, Edelman was during the play and seeing as both their heads knocked together I don’t BELIEVE he was trying for helmet to helmet.. but again it was called.

Edelman purposely lowered his head and speared.  He should have been ejected.

 

Quote

— What are the ejection and suspension standards for the use of helmet rule?
Ejection standards for the use of helmet rule are as follows:

1. Player lowers his helmet to establish a linear body posture prior to initiating and making contact with the helmet. ...

2. Unobstructed path to his opponent. ...

3. Contact clearly avoidable and player delivering the blow had other options.

 

[row_33]

34 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Again what missed call? He was called for a personal foul and was half the distance to the goal. Are you upset because the called it for blocking after calling for a fair catch instead of for helmet to helmet?  No matter which one they called it’s the same result. Was it a dumb dumb move? Yes was he penalized for it? Yes..

 

don't let facts get in the way of their petty bitterness and hate

 

 

[Chimp]

5 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

How did they ignore it? He got called for a personal foul for it?? Not sure what else you expected to happen by the refs.

 

unlike Gronk who did his idiocy way after the play was done, Edelman was during the play and seeing as both their heads knocked together I don’t BELIEVE he was trying for helmet to helmet.. but again it was called.

You're an idiot

[Success]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

don't let facts get in the way of their petty bitterness and hate

 

 

 Not sure what’s worse.  A Pats fan on a Bills board    lamely trying to defend a blatantly missed call on a cheap shot by Edelman, or a Bills fan actually defending that lame defense.

[GoBills808]

5 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

How did they ignore it? He got called for a personal foul for it?? Not sure what else you expected to happen by the refs.

 

unlike Gronk who did his idiocy way after the play was done, Edelman was during the play and seeing as both their heads knocked together I don’t BELIEVE he was trying for helmet to helmet.. but again it was called.

Oh this is adorable.

[Teddy KGB]

Sounds like the roids are still flowing through his system 

 

 

[Scott7975]

19 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lol I understand I am just hoping someone can find out if anyone ever been kicked out via that rule? I suspect if anyone would be it be Burfect over in Baltimore.  But I can’t find any data via google for it.

 

and just so it’s out there again Gronks hit was bush league and he should have gotten a minimum of 2 games for that and a huge fine for like 4 game checks.. 

To me it was obvious in slow motion.. in real speed it looked like their heads hit accidentally during the collision..  Also I need someone provide an example or two when they have ejected anyone using this rule yet..

 

see my response above in regards to gronk lol..

At least two players have been ejected that I know of.  One was the Colts safety.  I believe he was the first.

[ctk232]

15 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lol I understand I am just hoping someone can find out if anyone ever been kicked out via that rule? I suspect if anyone would be it be Burfect over in Baltimore.  But I can’t find any data via google for it.

 

and just so it’s out there again Gronks hit was bush league and he should have gotten a minimum of 2 games for that and a huge fine for like 4 game checks.. 

Burfict was the first I thought, too. I think Shamarko Thomas was the first to be ejected this past August, but all I can find was "helmet-to-helmet" making a tackle: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2018/08/10/shamarko-thomas-becomes-first-nfl-player-ejected-helmet-rule/954522002/

 

Don't particularly care for SBNation, but: https://www.sbnation.com/2018/9/9/17492612/ncaa-targeting-rule-nfl-comparison

 

Nice comparison of the NCAA/NFL rule on targeting, but as far as I can tell it's "lower the helmet to initiate and make contact with an opponents helmet" and they removed the language stating "if the action was flagrant" in terms of assessing ejection vs. violation. Idk, imo I do think Edelman's was "flagrant" enough, even though that phrase was removed from the rules, to warrant ejection in this case. 

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

 Not sure what’s worse.  A Pats fan on a Bills board    lamely trying to defend a blatantly missed call on a cheap shot by Edelman, or a Bills fan actually defending that lame defense.

Bills fans lamenting about a guy not being ejected when that part of the rule has never been enforced yet. (Or at least it isn’t able be googled) I never once said he didn’t deserve to get the penalty! I have consistently said the penalty would be the same.  They are not going kick out a star player in a close game in the NFL EVER!!  It will be some no name or person like Burfect that everyone hates.  (Also outside of Buffalo (and obviously NE) Edelman considered a little punk but not dirty.. )

1 minute ago, ctk232 said:

Burfict was the first I thought, too. I think Shamarko Thomas was the first to be ejected this past August, but all I can find was "helmet-to-helmet" making a tackle: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2018/08/10/shamarko-thomas-becomes-first-nfl-player-ejected-helmet-rule/954522002/

 

Don't particularly care for SBNation, but: https://www.sbnation.com/2018/9/9/17492612/ncaa-targeting-rule-nfl-comparison

 

Nice comparison of the NCAA/NFL rule on targeting, but as far as I can tell it's "lower the helmet to initiate and make contact with an opponents helmet" and they removed the language stating "if the action was flagrant" in terms of assessing ejection vs. violation. Idk, imo I do think Edelman's was "flagrant" enough, even though that phrase was removed from the rules, to warrant ejection in this case. 

Awesome! So was a no name player in preseason... I just don’t think the NFL wants it called on a star player in a tight game.  I also think the refs missed it. (They missed a lot Monday night). Be interesting see if he gets a fine or not. 

 

Again i I am not saying he shouldn’t be penalized for it, I just think IMO expecting an ejection was reasonable. The evidence proves they don’t do that YET.