Someone needs to be fired over Mahomes right now.

[Boca BIlls]

22 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

 

That is simply not true....and you need look no further then look at Mahommes in the little time he got last year.

 

There are PLENTY of QBs that dont look great in their first years that go on and become very good qbs......

I question the will be.....but the rest of this I totally agree with

He looked good last year. It always has been true.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[bouds]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought that was pretty well established.  McDermott made the picks using the draft board Whaley and his scouts assembled. 

McDermott called the shot.  Whaley knew at least a month before the draft that he was out.  Up thread someone linked a Ben Albright tweet to this effect, Albright is usually well connected.  He called Allen to Bills and Mayfield to Browns well before this years draft.

 

28 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The word is that both Pegula and Whaley wanted QB with Mahomes and Watson high on the list.  McDermott wrested control of the football operations and instead decided to make the deal to trade with KC. 

 

I remember LaConfora reporting that Pegula loved Mahomes, wanted the QB/Mahomes, but ultimately the trigger was pulled by Doug Whaley and Pegula/McDermott stayed out of it.  Not sure that LaConfora is reliable, but there's so many angles.  Hope we truly find out.  

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

He looked good last year. It always has been true.

He wasnt bust bad in the game he played in (at the end of the year with pretty much the same team) but still shaky throws, a pick and no throwing scores.  He got to sit basically the whole year and he comes into his second year looking even better....he did NOT look this good last year.

 

Josh Allen did not get this opportunity....it is what it is....PLENTY  of top level qbs looked bad in their first year

[MJS]

Whaley was already fired. He was the GM.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Klaista2k said:

Seriously how the !@#$ did we not take this guy?

 

This guy is !@#$ing sensational and might be the best quarterback in the league for YEARS to come.

 

Not taking him is absolutely inexcusable and someone needs to be fired for this epic mistake. 

 

let's see how it plays out, there have been a lot of hot first time starters who played well for awhile only to falter later.

 

Hope he does well but I only care about what Allen does.

 

 

3 hours ago, B Fan in LA said:

 

Mahommes is the real deal, and they whiffed on him.

There is a very real possibility that JA is Losman 2.

 

Our front office pretends like they are genius's, but they are a bunch of very average d*cks.

 

 

kaepernick is available.

 

 

[#34fan]

Why?

 

So Mahommes could be surrounded by bargain-basement talent, then ruined by junk coordinators, and coaches?

 

He would have never been the stud he is today if we'd drafted him.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Mahomes would have been good even if he didnt sit. QBs either have it or they don't. 

 

 

Nonsense.

 

Pretty much the whole league disagrees with this. McD as well, as we learned, but Allen agrees with it too, as he's said.

 

Again, Rodgers absolutely sucked in the preseason his first three years. It really was only in his fourth year, having spent three years changing his mechanics and learning the game, that he suddenly looked very good in preseason.

 

Pretty much the whole NFL disagrees with you. It's why some guys are considered NFL-ready and others are developmental. Some guys need to learn and some don't. And guys with mechanics issues at QB are among the neediest ones, because it's hard to work on grooving movements into muscle memory when you're spending all your time learning game plans and studying defenses to handle the team that week.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, B Fan in LA said:

genius's

 

Oh the irony.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, bouds said:

 

 

I remember LaConfora reporting that Pegula loved Mahomes, wanted the QB/Mahomes, but ultimately the trigger was pulled by Doug Whaley and Pegula/McDermott stayed out of it.  Not sure that LaConfora is reliable, but there's so many angles.  Hope we truly find out.  

 

 

I think you're misremembering here.

 

Plenty of people reported that Whaley was the one on the phone to Reid. Nobody reported that Whaley pulled the trigger, not that I remember.

[Boca BIlls]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense.

 

Pretty much the whole league disagrees with this. McD as well, as we learned, but Allen agrees with it too, as he's said.

 

Again, Rodgers absolutely sucked in the preseason his first three years. It really was only in his fourth year, having spent three years changing his mechanics and learning the game, that he suddenly looked very good in preseason.

 

Pretty much the whole NFL disagrees with you. It's why some guys are considered NFL-ready and others are developmental. Some guys need to learn and some don't. And guys with mechanics issues at QB are among the neediest ones, because it's hard to work on grooving movements into muscle memory when you're spending all your time learning game plans and studying defenses to handle the team that week.

Preseason...

[Thurman#1]

5 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Preseason...

 

 

Exactly right, dude. When you suck in preseason for three years, you're not ready. That's what made it impressive that after three years of development suddenly he turned it around the next preseason. He developed.

 

As do many.

 

Who are the best three QBs in the league right now? Brady, Rodgers and Brees? What do they have in common?

 

Oh yeah, they all spent time on the bench developing and soaking it up before they got on the field.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Thurman#1

[liverpoolkev]

5 hours ago, Reks Ryan said:

It's heartbreaking to watch this guy and knowing that we have still have a big Question Mark at QB.   Not to mention Deshaun Watson.    

 

But Whaley and the entire scouting department actually were fired immediately after screwing up and not taking either guy.   It's just stupid that you would have a lame duck staff run the draft.    Can't fire Pegula.

1

1

Don't start that lie..... Whaley was all set to take Watson end of story with Mahommes 2nd if taken.....It was your boy demett who wanted the trade down plain and simple. I was in Philly ready to celebrate but the coup was in . That draft was totally mcdermet from the trading down to talking with his boy Beane to trade up to get the sad left tackle and talking with a freaking college coach that he hired to get zay jones whom we traded up for .........this quack Mcdermet/ Beane  should be fired 

Edited October 2, 2018 by liverpoolkev
spelling

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The word is that both Pegula and Whaley wanted QB with Mahomes and Watson high on the list.  McDermott wrested control of the football operations and instead decided to make the deal to trade with KC. 

 

....with Whaley being gone immediately after the draft, McDermott wresting and having control makes sense.....good find.......

[liverpoolkev]

46 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I think you're misremembering here.

 

Plenty of people reported that Whaley was the one on the phone to Reid. Nobody reported that Whaley pulled the trigger, not that I remember.

You heard wrong as usual     Mcdermett wanted and was given full control of draft he didnt like any of the QB    Whaley wanted Watson with Mahoome second but was overridden by Mcdermett......Don't start lying now that it's blowing up in his face 

[Ol Dirty B]

5 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

That's your answer right there folks.......it was bad timing for the Bills (which is natural because there would never be good timing for the Bills).  They had a brand new HC and no GM and that is not the time NFL teams to go all in on a new franchise QB.

 

Ironic, because if it was 20 years ago they might have said, hey, WTF and drafted him.  But now, drafting a QB is a career and franchise altering decision so it's not going to happen without a whole bunch of people all in agreement on the plan.

 

I agree with this, but one thing I think getting left out here is how the Pegulas said that it made more sense to have the FO turn over after the draft rather than January. They praised themselves for it, and I remember seeing crap articles saying how they were redefining the NFL hiring calendar. 

 

That was all going on while the national media were like "the !@#$ you guys doing up there?", and scratching their heads. Everyone blew off the national media around here, and guess what, this year, any team making a GM change and turning over the FO did it in January.

 

It was another stupid decision by the pegulas and another sign that they are totally inept owners. I'm not blaming McDermott on this one, it's the clowns that own the team. I'm becoming very frustrated with their arrogance and incompetence.

[CSBill]

6 hours ago, zonabb said:

McD is not Andy Reid. Kid is good but Reid and the weapons are huges reason for is success, as well as the patience to sit him for a year. Most wanted to play Allen right away and that was and is a mistake. I think Allen's collapse (eventual) and Mahomes success (eventual) will cost this regime. QBs cost management their jobs. 

 

Well, unfortunately, Josh Allen did not have Alex Smith in front of him. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

EVERYONE MUST BE FIRED NOW. NOW! WE MUST HAVE BLOOD! MAKE IT HAPPEN TERRY!

 

[The Process]

Here's to the idea that someone on the Cardinals board.... 4 games into next season.....posts "someone needs to be fired over Allen". ?

[PeterDude]

6 hours ago, B Fan in LA said:

 

I totally agree...............we could'a had Mahommes and not given up any picks...........

 

 

Don't bother, the Kool Aid drinkers are not listening, they won't be listening when Allen busts while Mahomes is playing in SB's, they will make excuses for the franchise like they always do...

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Tried to tell you guys but everyone was calling me crazy when I said he’s a generational QB

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

How many times are we going to do this? 

 

Every week Augie. Every. Single. Week.

[Ol Dirty B]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I dont need to protect Josh Allen

 

He is going to end up proving me right all on his own.....it just might not be this year

 

Solid deflection.

 

Make point. Said point gets proven wrong. Don't regard that at all and ramble on incoherently. 

[Nuncha]

So many missed opportunities with QB's over the past decade and a half...Mahomes is one of many that could have been here.

[Wayne Cubed]

I think it's a bit early to compare Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes considering Mahomes is a year further along and is surrounded by tons of talent.

 

Saying that, the situation the Bills are in with Allen is entirely McBeans fault. If the plan was to start Allen from the get go why did they wait until the 5th round to draft an OL and the 6th round to draft a WR? Instead they drafted a LB(giving away picks for that), a DT, a CB and a Safety before addressing anything on the offensive side of the ball. This was of course after they knew Wood/Incognito were gone and the most they'd done in FA was picking up Bodine and a WR Kerley, who they've already cut.

 

So maybe their plan was to sit Allen? Well that has failed miserably as well. They made no attempt to be aggressive in finding a place holder QB and were content signing the last QB off the scrap heap. Who they then traded and rolled into the season with freaking Nathan Peterman.

 

Yes, they have loads of money for FA next year and they have the draft. They also have a huge lack of talent across the entire team. The Bills need at least 3 OL, at least 2 WRs, a TE, probably a RB. They also will need to replace some players on defense, another LB, DT, DE and probably a CB. And those are all starters the Bills need, the Bills then need depth as well. They will need to absolutely knock it out of the park in the draft and FA, and then some.

 

I don't think anyone should be fired, that's ridiculously reactionary but it certainly does raise an eyebrow as to what exactly they are doing but 'Trust the Process',

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We also dont have KC's offensive supporting cast.....and of course Mahommes got to sit a year and was not ready when he came into the league....

 

but hey.......

 

Of course, last year we were built to let a qb sit while this year we were not. Additionally with two offseasons and two drafts one might say we could’ve added more offensive talent than we have. 

 

But hey 

[May Day 10]

If i had to do anything, i would build a time machine and force russ brandon to offer money and organizational control to andy reid.

 

Instead, they did one of their half step shuffles.  Whaley moved from agm to gm, and brandon became no stone unturned guy.

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I would call you a troll but that would mean you actually put thought into your posts before actually posting them.....

 

Go get me a friggen juicebox.....and when your ready to look at the situation logically then come back and converse with the adults

After all the times you’ve went down with sinking ships you’d think you’d at least have the courtesy to be a tiny bit polite about disagreements. 

[GunnerBill]

I think the point is not “is this fair” the point is “this conversation has happened 3 times in 4 weeks” we know everyone’s view now. 

I think the point is not “is this fair” the point is “this conversation has happened 3 times in 4 weeks” we know everyone’s view now. 

[oldmanfan]

Memories are very foggy here.  Going into that draft there were plenty of questions about Mahomes.   People were concerned about his mechanics, especially his footwork.  Concern was expressed over him coming out of a one read spread offense and whether he would be able to adapt to the pro game.  I personally wanted Watson, but concerns about his game as well.

 

Memories about our weapons are foggy as well.  People bring up not keeping Goodwin, and forget how ineffective he was here.  People forget Woods wanted to get back to the West coast.  Sammy has been discussed to death.

 

Good for Mahomes.  He's playing well.  Watson is a bit up and down now.  Trubisky has been spotty and just had his best game.  Allen looked good last week and not good Sunday.

 

I will judge McD and Beane by decisions they make, not ones they don't make.  When teams ahead of us in last year's draft see a CB get torched do they scream they could have had Tredavious?  Allen is their guy.  They now need to get a line in front  of him (situations with Wood and Richie didn't help), WRs have to catch the ball.  They have a ton of picks and a ton of cap space.  Their future lies in how well they use those assets.

[vincec]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We also dont have KC's offensive supporting cast.....and of course Mahommes got to sit a year and was not ready when he came into the league....

 

but hey.......

Bills could have done the same. Instead they picked up one of the worst of the available FA QBs to replace Taylor and ended up having to start the rookie. They broke up the team and then focused almost entirely on defense in the initial rebuild. They chose a different route but could have just as easily given Mahomes a year to sit and a decent supporting cast if they chose to.

 

They desperately needed a QB right from year one. They didn't draft one until year two. To me that means that they just didn't believe in Mahomes or believed in Taylor before they him watched play close up him for a season. Either one is an evaluation error. It doesn't mean it can't still work out but it was a missed opportunity for sure.

[Real McClappy]

How would Josh Allen look with Andy Reid and the Chiefs?

 

It was rumored Whaley was fired by Pegula for not taking Mahomes

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707036-doug-whaley-passing-on-patrick-mahomes-rumored-to-be-final-straw-before-firing

Edited October 2, 2018 by Real McCoy

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Real McCoy said:

How would Josh Allen look with Andy Reid and the Chiefs?

 

 

...or with run support last night of 142 yards?......naw, that wouldn't help.............

[Ol Dirty B]

4 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

How would Josh Allen look with Andy Reid and the Chiefs?

 

It was rumored Whaley was fired by Pegula for not taking Mahomes

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707036-doug-whaley-passing-on-patrick-mahomes-rumored-to-be-final-straw-before-firing

 

First time I've seen that... Not sure if I believe it or not. So does he get credit for Tre in that scenario then?

[Real McClappy]

6 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

First time I've seen that... Not sure if I believe it or not. So does he get credit for Tre in that scenario then?

Gave himself credit for parting gift instead leaving team with 2 first picks in 2018. He get's credit for Tre.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/05/22/doug-whaley-claims-credit-for-parting-gift-of-two-first-round-picks/

 

I personally wanted either him or Watson with that pick as we needed a QB badly. 90% of fans here were saying "next year is the time to draft a QB" Water under the bridge now though.

 

Fans just need patience with Josh. Beane has to build up the WR and Oline core the next offseason. 

 

Let's go Josh Allen!

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Real McCoy

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

How would Josh Allen look with Andy Reid and the Chiefs?

 

It was rumored Whaley was fired by Pegula for not taking Mahomes

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707036-doug-whaley-passing-on-patrick-mahomes-rumored-to-be-final-straw-before-firing

 

That report is simply wrong. McDermott ran that draft. Whaley just negotiated the terms of the trades under parameters established by McDermott. 

[vincec]

19 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

First time I've seen that... Not sure if I believe it or not. So does he get credit for Tre in that scenario then?

Whaley gets the blame for Mahomes and Beane gets the credit for White, duh. (Even though Beane wasn't here yet).

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Reks Ryan said:

It's heartbreaking to watch this guy and knowing that we have still have a big Question Mark at QB.   Not to mention Deshaun Watson.    

 

But Whaley and the entire scouting department actually were fired immediately after screwing up and not taking either guy.   It's just stupid that you would have a lame duck staff run the draft.    Can't fire Pegula.

 

Incorrect.  Whaley was a lame-duck and his staff were lame-ducks on Draft Day as Whaley was fired the day after the draft, and his staff fired shortly after Beane was hired.   Rumor has it that Whaley wanted to draft Deshaun Watson in the first round.  McDermott won the power struggle with Whaley, and he passed on both Mahomes and Watson to draft ANOTHER DB.  White may be a good CB -- he might become a great DB -- but the great DBs are almost a dime a dozen compared to great QBs.

 

FTR, the Bills have drafted a CB or S in the first round since 1996 (Jim Kelly's last season) in 1999, 2001, 2006, 2008, 2012, and 2017.  The Bills drafted a QB in the first round in  2004,  2013, and 2018 ... despite not having a quality NFL starting QB except when they drafted Losman in 2004 when they had Drew Bledsoe.

 

IMO, Losman, Manuel, and Allen were all drafted in order to placate the fan base.  Both Losman and Allen were the worst of the best top QB prospects in their draft years, and the Bills traded up to get both of them.  Manuel wasn't even the best prospect in a terrible QB class in which none of the QBs were good enough to be NFL QBs.   If the Bills REALLY had a plan to build a respectable modern offense around a franchise QB, they would have sought to replace Wood and Incognito with better FAs than the bottom feeder OLers they scrounged from the NFL scrap heap and drafted other offensive players in 2018 before the end of the fifth round.  Even if Allen can be a good/great NFL QB, he's probably doomed because of the simply awful offensive team around him.   Sadly, it's likely that Mahomes would suffer the same fate if the Bills had drafted him.

[prissythecat]

6 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

Probably should have stopped at Dak. Wilson is a horrible example. Yes, please give me a Super Bowl champion and a 4x Pro Bowler at QB..

 Isn’t Tyrod a two or three time Pro Bowler?  Super bowl wins are a team stat? Wilson isn’t doing so hot without an elite  defense or running game is he?

Edited October 2, 2018 by prissythecat

[twist_to_open]

He has Andy Ried as a head coach, a solid O line, and unbelievable weapons on offense, do you really think he would even come close to his stats here? 

[PlayoffsPlease]

5 minutes ago, twist_to_open said:

He has Andy Ried as a head coach, a solid O line, and unbelievable weapons on offense, do you really think he would even come close to his stats here? 

Maybe the real question is: How did the Chiefs manage to trade up  for the QB of the future giving up picks, keep a quality QB Alex Smith on the roster until Mahomes was ready AND acquire all of those weapons?