Will the Bills ruin Josh Allen?

[Foreigner]

Call me a troll or whatever, as I got ripped for my last post for complaining about losing Woods, Watkins,

and Goodwin for almost nothing and replacing them with this group of WRs. The Pats tried Decker and

Gordon this year. They both may not work out, but at least they TRIED to improve their WRs.

 

1. We have no QB mentor to help teach Allen this year, unless you think he should learn the position

from Nathan Peterman.

2. Low balling Incognito before his breakdown backfired, and we have been blaming OCs from before 

Marone's time for our OL problems, when the real problem is a lack of competent GMs who 

haven't had a clue on OL talent, and please don't tell me to trust the process.

3. Our WR core is among or maybe the worst in the league. You can refer to the first paragraph

for my thinking on that.

 

The bottom line is if Allen gets no help to correct his physical errors, and continues to run for his life

messing up his mental makeup, he won't make it here.  

[Bills Pimpin']

7 minutes ago, Foreigner said:

Call me a troll or whatever, as I got ripped for my last post for complaining about losing Woods, Watkins,

and Goodwin for almost nothing and replacing them with this group of WRs. The Pats tried Decker and

Gordon this year. They both may not work out, but at least they TRIED to improve their WRs.

 

1. We have no QB mentor to help teach Allen this year, unless you think he should learn the position

from Nathan Peterman.

2. Low balling Incognito before his breakdown backfired, and we have been blaming OCs from before 

Marone's time for our OL problems, when the real problem is a lack of competent GMs who 

haven't had a clue on OL talent, and please don't tell me to trust the process.

3. Our WR core is among or maybe the worst in the league. You can refer to the first paragraph

for my thinking on that.

 

The bottom line is if Allen gets no help to correct his physical errors, and continues to run for his life

messing up his mental makeup, he won't make it here.  

I'll just go ahead and call you a troll instead of trying to respond to this nonsensical take on the situation. You have no clue. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Look on the bright side, if Allen keeps his composure and can make it through the year guiding us to some wins and improvements, there's nearly no doubt he has the mental, emotional and physical makeup to be our Franchise QB 

 

Of course he can be ruined. Happpened to David Carr. I think it's going to take a helluva lot more than a few games in a season for that, though. I also think he's stronger than Carr was and the rules favor the offense and QB more. As for ruining him, McDermott and Daboll are responsible for making sure that doesn't happen.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Incognito could have said no. He had a choice to take the deal or not. He took it and went nuts. Why do people keep acting like he had no choice.

[Fadingpain]

9 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Look on the bright side, if Allen keeps his composure and can make it through the year guiding us to some wins and improvements, there's nearly no doubt he has the mental, emotional and physical makeup to be our Franchise QB 

 

Of course he can be ruined. Happpened to David Carr. I think it's going to take a helluva lot more than a few games in a season for that, though. I also think he's stronger than Carr was and the rules favor the offense and QB more. As for ruining him, McDermott and Daboll are responsible for making sure that doesn't happen.

Quarterbacks can't be ruined, for the 1,000th time.

 

This has now been brought up in about 6 different threads.

 

Josh Allen will rise to the level of his own ability, and stop there.

 

How high that is remains to be seen.

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

David Carr wasn’t “ruined” by the franchise. 

 

EJ Manuel wasn’t “ruined” by the Bills.

 

Franchise level QBs rise above organizational failures. See Philip Rivers, & Matt Ryan. The Chargers are so bad they switched cities & the Falcons have largely ridden Ryan’s skills to sneak into the playoffs and make one super bowl run. Good franchises with good coaches don’t blow 28-3 leads late in the 3rd Qtr.

[Foreigner]

With a combination of horrible coaching, OL and WRs of course they can wind up in the graveyard of QBs.

 

There is no way you can tell me if Rogers was quarterbacking the Bills yesterday we would have won

the game. If Allen wasn't so mobile there is no telling what would have happened.

[US Egg]

The Bills, once again, are being run by those who are in over their head.

 

They're wonderful people, but the Pegulas knack for hiring inept people is reflective of the infamous "Peter Principle".

 

(The Peter Principle is the tendency of promoting those who have reached a level of incompetence regarding their ability to do a new given position.)

Edited October 1, 2018 by I am the egg man

[#34fan]

You draft a kid from a bottom-feeder conference who's know for his inaccuracy, THEN pair him up with a twice-failed OC, THEN put him behind possibly the worst O-line in football, armed with horrendous receivers... -Allen was DOA as far as I'm concerned... He never had a chance...  The stench of this situation could linger around McBeane for a long time to come... Allen will be incredibly fortunate to escape this season without major injury.

[transplantbillsfan]

38 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Quarterbacks can't be ruined, for the 1,000th time.

 

This has now been brought up in about 6 different threads.

 

Josh Allen will rise to the level of his own ability, and stop there.

 

How high that is remains to be seen.

 

I disagree that a QB can't be ruined.

 

There are tons of factors that go into the development of a QB that has nothing to do with the QB himself.

 

That said, I don't think it happens with Allen because I think McDermott is going to do as good as he possibly can to mitigate all the other circumstances... and as much as some of his moves and decisions have been a bit suspect, I generally trust McDermott.

[Bills Pimpin']

 

3 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

The Bills, once again, are being run by those who are in over their head.

 

They're wonderful people, but the Pegulas knack for hiring people is sort of reflective of the "Peter Principle" is uncanny.

 

(The Peter Principle is the tendency of promoting those who reach the levels of incompetence in a given position.)

Oooo, another self proclaimed expert with a witty forum name criticizing the owners of an NFL franchise. This is a real doozy though. Criticizing the hiring practices of a billionaire by an internet troll takes the cake. You are special one sir.

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

David Carr wasn’t “ruined” by the franchise. 

 

EJ Manuel wasn’t “ruined” by the Bills.

 

Franchise level QBs rise above organizational failures. See Philip Rivers, & Matt Ryan. The Chargers are so bad they switched cities & the Falcons have largely ridden Ryan’s skills to sneak into the playoffs and make one super bowl run. Good franchises with good coaches don’t blow 28-3 leads late in the 3rd Qtr.

 

I generally think that is true, and EJ certainly wasn't ruined. But David Carr..... he might be the one example of a guy that was ruined. He got beaten up so bad his first year and a half he spent the rest of his career escaping from non existant pressure from clean pockets. I don't know David Carr would have been great.... but I know that he never had a chance the way his rookie year in Houston went. 

[Seanbillsfan2206]

Peyton Manning was ruined by the Colts in his rookie season. Oh wait....

[US Egg]

3 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

 

Oooo, another self proclaimed expert with a witty forum name criticizing the owners of an NFL franchise. This is a real doozy though. Criticizing the hiring practices of a billionaire by an internet troll takes the cake. You are special one sir.

''

You just worry about keeping all your ho's in line their Huggy Bear, and you'll do just fine.

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by I am the egg man

[bmur66]

Not having a veteran backup QB to mentor Josh Allen is a sin. Quite possible he will be damaged.

[Gugny]

4 hours ago, Foreigner said:

Call me a troll or whatever, as I got ripped for my last post for complaining about losing Woods, Watkins,

and Goodwin for almost nothing and replacing them with this group of WRs. The Pats tried Decker and

Gordon this year. They both may not work out, but at least they TRIED to improve their WRs.

 

1. We have no QB mentor to help teach Allen this year, unless you think he should learn the position

from Nathan Peterman.

2. Low balling Incognito before his breakdown backfired, and we have been blaming OCs from before 

Marone's time for our OL problems, when the real problem is a lack of competent GMs who 

haven't had a clue on OL talent, and please don't tell me to trust the process.

3. Our WR core is among or maybe the worst in the league. You can refer to the first paragraph

for my thinking on that.

 

The bottom line is if Allen gets no help to correct his physical errors, and continues to run for his life

messing up his mental makeup, he won't make it here.  

 

I've been waiting for a girl like you.

[PeterDude]

4 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

The Bills, once again, are being run by those who are in over their head.

 

They're wonderful people, but the Pegulas knack for hiring inept people is reflective of the infamous "Peter Principle".

 

(The Peter Principle is the tendency of promoting those who have reached a level of incompetence regarding their ability to do a new given position.)

 

But McDermott is a faith based coach, Pegula even said so!  That has to count for something right?

Edited October 1, 2018 by PeterDude

[PlayoffsPlease]

Allen seems pretty solid mentally.  He will succeed or fail based on his own capabilities. 

[Commish]

4 hours ago, Foreigner said:

With a combination of horrible coaching, OL and WRs of course they can wind up in the graveyard of QBs.

 

There is no way you can tell me if Rogers was quarterbacking the Bills yesterday we would have won

the game. If Allen wasn't so mobile there is no telling what would have happened.

Interesting question - deserving of it's own thread: what would the outcome of the game have been if Rogers was the QB of the Bills? Other than a couple fewer sacks for failure to throw the ball away sooner,  and the interceptions - which looks to me like a rookie trying to do too much - I don't think the score would be all that different.

[ALF]

The best way to learn is to watch video to compare what he saw to what he should have seen. When the OL is the problem , the OC has to bring in quick pass routes. This is good experience for Allen he can't learn from the bench , he will be fine in the future.

[wppete]

[87168]

Absolutely. He was put in a position to either sink or swim, strictly due to poor off season decisions.

 

People can minimize the impact of having a vet on the team, but it's needed, and we don't have one.

1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Allen seems pretty solid mentally.  He will succeed or fail based on his own capabilities. 

Very false.

[CountDorkula]

6 minutes ago, wppete said:

 

The Bills are on pace to break that record, by a wide margin too. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

7 minutes ago, 87168 said:

Absolutely. He was put in a position to either sink or swim, strictly due to poor off season decisions.

 

People can minimize the impact of having a vet on the team, but it's needed, and we don't have one.

Very false.

You subscribe to myths. 

[teef]

allen is a rookie.  we going to see a few games like the vikings game, but more likely more games where his performance is green bay-ish.  on top of that, this team isn't very good.  the knee jerk reactions are fun though.  it's a long season, and this year is more about development than anything.  i don't think it will ruin josh.  if allen doesn't become a successful qb, it's more likely going to be due to the shortcoming we all heard about coming out of college.  i'm not worried about him at all at this point.  just learn from the stupid rookie mistakes, and he'll be fine.

[MAJBobby]

6 hours ago, Foreigner said:

Call me a troll or whatever, as I got ripped for my last post for complaining about losing Woods, Watkins,

and Goodwin for almost nothing and replacing them with this group of WRs. The Pats tried Decker and

Gordon this year. They both may not work out, but at least they TRIED to improve their WRs.

 

1. We have no QB mentor to help teach Allen this year, unless you think he should learn the position

from Nathan Peterman.

2. Low balling Incognito before his breakdown backfired, and we have been blaming OCs from before 

Marone's time for our OL problems, when the real problem is a lack of competent GMs who 

haven't had a clue on OL talent, and please don't tell me to trust the process.

3. Our WR core is among or maybe the worst in the league. You can refer to the first paragraph

for my thinking on that.

 

The bottom line is if Allen gets no help to correct his physical errors, and continues to run for his life

messing up his mental makeup, he won't make it here.  

 

Good to great QBs cannot be ruined unless of a career ending injury. 

 

 

[Soda Popinski]

1 minute ago, teef said:

allen is a rookie.  we going to see a few games like the vikings game, but more likely more games where his performance is green bay-ish.  on top of that, this team isn't very good.  the knee jerk reactions are fun though.  it's a long season, and this year is more about development than anything.  i don't think it will ruin josh.  if allen doesn't become a successful qb, it's more likely going to be due to the shortcoming we all heard about coming out of college.  i'm not worried about him at all at this point.  just learn from the stupid rookie mistakes, and he'll be fine.

I guess Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning were ruined their rookie years too.   

 

The hot takes are indeed amusing this morning. 

[teef]

Just now, Soda Popinski said:

I guess Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning were ruined their rookie years too.   

 

The hot takes are indeed amusing this morning. 

just look who the op is.  last week he was no where to be found.  on a monday after a loss, i expect 5-6 more threads by him today.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

It will make or break him.  

 

I am not making any comparisons but Troy Aichman 1 or 2 wins  his first season 

Edited October 1, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[MAJBobby]

23 minutes ago, wppete said:

 

Carr wasnt good anyway. 

 

Should I post one of Goff 4.0 sacks a game? Too and how did that ruin him?

[atlbillsfan1975]

Allen is a ‘self made’ guy. He believes in himself. I don’t think he will suddenly lose his confidence. The coaches need to cut him loose and let him play his game. There was a play early on in the Packer game where Josh could of picked up the first down by running. He attempted a pass instead that was incomplete. This could be the only area he is getting asked not to run to much and get hurt. They also will need to find some wide receivers who now how to work WITH a scrambling quarter back. 

[DefenseWins]

As far as I can tell, the Jets must be ruining Darnold too then, cause his stats and the outcome of that game are pretty similar to the Bills ordeal yesterday...

 

And Miami got destroyed by the Pariots as usual too... Boy, you people need to chill out...

 

Aikman's rookie season was as pathetic as this and so was Elway's... This is a transition and learning year - a rebuilding year... Enjoy the high points and tolerate the low points... 

 

 

[TSOL]



[BananaB]

I’m more worried about the unit as a whole, way too much inexperience. Allen I think will be alright. He’s the only guy on offender who shows any promise right now. These young WRs need a decent veteran WRs infront of them. The pressure on Allen will continue until we find a guy who can play. Look at all the young WRs who make impacts throughout the league, they all have something common and it’s a experienced vet around them. And Kelvin Benjamin isn’t that vet, to be honest he should be used at a pass catching TE. Might be a way for him to improve his pay because he’s gonna be on the FA market a while after the Bills let him go.

[MAJBobby]

There are going to be games like yesterday in Allen’s growth. What you want to see is more positive games than negative by the end of the year. And hopefully by the end of a year a string of good to great games linked together. 

 

He wasnt good yesterday 

 

[Ramza86]

Hmm.....based on what ive seen. I dont think he ever looked too flustered out there.

 

The guy has been in constant duress for 3 weeks now. This was his worst game to date, but I think hes handling it the best he can.

 

If he can continue to keep his composure the following weeks then I dont think he can be ruined. He will just need the pieces around him.

[TheElectricCompany]

Ruined? No, but I think his development stalls out if you don't get some pieces around him. 

 

[Bray Wyatt]

Yesterday was a big learning experience for Allen. Pettine is known for confusing rookie qbs with looks he wouldnt have seen before. Couple that with an OL who gets confused easily and it was not going to go well. I expect a better game out of him next week, although Tenn's defense looks legit as well

[H2o]

22 minutes ago, 87168 said:

Absolutely. He was put in a position to either sink or swim, strictly due to poor off season decisions.

 

People can minimize the impact of having a vet on the team, but it's needed, and we don't have one.

Very false.

This is incorrect as well. It's not due to poor offseason decisions. Their hands were tied due to dead cap. There was only so much money to spread around. Incognito losing his sh*t again then retiring, coupled with Wood's neck injury, and moving Glenn for draft capital made this OL what it is. Without that draft capital we don't get Allen and Edmunds. I would have spent the money they spent on Star other ways, but no one is going to agree with every move a FO makes. They brought in McCarron to be the bridge, but he didn't show much so they got a 5th for him. Steal by the FO. Peterman fooled everyone again and showed his true colors week 1. They were holding out hope from the 2nd year, 2nd rounder Zay Jones. They were hoping that Benjamin would step up and make some plays. Clay is still a decent receiving option. We still have Shady. I don't know what you expected, but Rookie QB's don't usually make All Pro their first season. You look for improvement mainly in recognizing defenses, manipulating the defense with their eyes, and how they operate in the pocket. The offensive gameplan against Minnesota was outstanding. Outside of that it has been pretty bad. He may sink in your opinion this year, but as long as you see improvemnt in the areas I already stated everyone should be encouraged. This offseason in 2019 will be the one they can actually start putting some pieces around him on the OL and at the skill positions. Like I said in other threads, I never expected much this year. I just want to see growth out of the young players. 

[Gugny]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

There are going to be games like yesterday in Allen’s growth. What you want to see is more positive games than negative by the end of the year. And hopefully by the end of a year a string of good to great games linked together. 

 

He wasnt good yesterday 

 

 

Exactly.  He played like a rookie yesterday.  A rookie who was asked to pass way too much and thrust into a predictable offense way too early.

 

He took a lot of hits and bounced back up every time.  And he didn't quit.  Onto the next game.