To the Bills fans who said you would rather have better draft pick than a win

[buffaloboyinATL]

Are you happy today? Not to pick on you @SouthNYfan but this is an example of what I am talking about. There are those amongst us who stated that you would rather cheer for better draft picks than cheer for the Bills to win. Does that mean you are disappointed today since we went and destroyed a team that almost everyone thought would destroy us?  I am elated that we got the win and also showed that we have the coach, QB and a few other core elements in place to hopefully be competitive for years to come.  I wonder how fans who cheer for the team to lose feel.  

 

Oh, and are you still cheering for us to lose now after this performance, or will you start cheering for the team to win?

 

   On 9/21/2018 at 3:10 PM,  buffaloboyinATL said: 

I ALWAYS cheer for the win and then deal with the losses when they happen.  I agree that in the big scheme this win would not likely mean much, but I enjoy my Sundays cheering for a good performance by the Bills, therefore, rooting against the OP.

SouthNYfan:

I know but you said all of us.

So I'm telling you I'm not rooting to win right now.

I want a top pick.

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by buffaloboyinATL

[BillsFan130]

I can never go against the Bills. Especially this early in the season

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Are you happy today? Not to pick on you @SouthNYfan but this is an example of what I am talking about. There are those amongst us who stated that you would rather cheer for better draft picks than cheer for the Bills to win. Does that mean you are disappointed today since we went and destroyed a team that almost everyone thought would destroy us?  I am elated that we got the win and also showed that we have the coach, QB and a few other core elements in place to hopefully be competitive for years to come.  I wonder how fans who cheer for the team to lose feel. 

 

   On 9/21/2018 at 3:10 PM,  buffaloboyinATL said: 

I ALWAYS cheer for the win and then deal with the losses when they happen.  I agree that in the big scheme this win would not likely mean much, but I enjoy my Sundays cheering for a good performance by the Bills, therefore, rooting against the OP.

SouthNYfan:

I know but you said all of us.

So I'm telling you I'm not rooting to win right now.

I want a top pick.

 

 

I don't cheer for them to lose.

Going into games I'm looking at the future right now, in a rebuild.

No, I'm not disappointed, I'm actually very happy with the way they played.

I'm also not going to sit around and pretend that one game means we are going to the Superbowl.

We might, who knows?

Winning a couple of games during the season and finishing 6-10 again isn't productive, it's why we had a 17 year playoff drought.

We got our QB it looks like, which I'm happy with, and have been stoked about him since we got him.

If we finish 6-10 with a meh draft pick though it's not going to help the team as much as finishing 3-13 with a top3 pick would.

[Alphadawg7]

I always want to win...

 

That being said, for me this year, I don't personally "care" if we win or lose as much as I care about just seeing growth and progress in our young players.  Im comfortable with whatever this season brings record wise because all the moves we made were NOT about THIS season, but all are for the future and long term success.  

 

However, to be fair...if the Bills are fielding a team thats not capable of winning more than a 4 to 6 games, then sure, I can see that people might think a loss would be better since you are not going to go anywhere anyway, so might as well improve the roster through better draft position.  And if you look at the first 2 weeks, the team certainly looked like one of the worst in the NFL at times.  So I don't really fault people who felt like losing might be better than a few occasional wins.  So hard to blame them for feeling that way, I mean it makes sense for someone to prefer that if the team isnt good enough to go anywhere.

 

BUT:  If this IS really the Bills team that played the last 6 quarters of football, then this team CAN win and its better to keep winning.  Its ALWAYS better to win.  

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

I always want to win...

 

That being said, for me this year, I don't personally "care" if we win or lose as much as I care about just seeing growth and progress in our young players.  Im comfortable with whatever this season brings record wise because all the moves we made were NOT about THIS season, but all are for the future and long term success.  

 

However, to be fair...if the Bills are fielding a team thats not capable of winning more than a 4 to 6 games, then sure, I can see that people might think a loss would be better since you are not going to go anywhere anyway, so might as well improve the roster through better draft position.  And if you look at the first 2 weeks, the team certainly looked like one of the worst in the NFL at times.  So I don't really fault people who felt like losing might be better than a few occasional wins.  So hard to blame them for feeling that way, I mean it makes sense for someone to prefer that if the team isnt good enough to go anywhere.

 

BUT:  If this IS really the Bills team that played the last 6 quarters of football, then this team CAN win and its better to keep winning.  Its ALWAYS better to win.  

 

Worded better than I did.

Thanks dude

[KitchenerKaizer]

Wanting your team to lose = fake fan

[buffaloboyinATL]

Just now, SouthNYfan said:

 

I don't cheer for them to lose.

Going into games I'm looking at the future right now, in a rebuild.

No, I'm not disappointed, I'm actually very happy with the way they played.

I'm also not going to sit around and pretend that one game means we are going to the Superbowl.

We might, who knows?

Winning a couple of games during the season and finishing 6-10 again isn't productive, it's why we had a 17 year playoff drought.

We got our QB it looks like, which I'm happy with, and have been stoked about him since we got him.

If we finish 6-10 with a meh draft pick though it's not going to help the team as much as finishing 3-13 with a top3 pick would.

That is true, I guess it is just a bit early to think about next years draft for me right now. I figured there was a good chance we could start the season 0-4 with this schedule, so if we can get one or two wins early, who knows.  Again, I didn't mean to pick on you, I get where you are coming from, I just wondered if this win made you happy or not...

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

However, to be fair...if the Bills are fielding a team thats not capable of winning more than a 4 to 6 games, then sure, I can see that people might think a loss would be better since you are not going to go anywhere anyway, so might as well improve the roster through better draft position.  And if you look at the first 2 weeks, the team certainly looked like one of the worst in the NFL at times.  So I don't really fault people who felt like losing might be better than a few occasional wins.  So hard to blame them for feeling that way, I mean it makes sense for someone to prefer that if the team isnt good enough to go anywhere.

 

I get this, but unfortunately, it will likely require hindsight this season to determine if we would have been better off losing a few more, rather than winning a few more, so I will always root for the win. If we end up losing enough to have a good draft pick, so be it, I just can't bring myself to root for that, especially this early in the season. 

[Chuck Wagon]

I'm elated we got the win.  I don't want to join the Browns and Lions in the 0-16 club.

 

That being said, I'm pretty realistic about where the talent level currently stands, adding a guy like Bosa or Oliver to the young talent we already have with the mountain of cap space we'll have this winter sounds a lot more appealing than another 6-10, pick 9th type of season, of which there were far too many in the drought.

[RyanC883]

15 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I don't cheer for them to lose.

Going into games I'm looking at the future right now, in a rebuild.

No, I'm not disappointed, I'm actually very happy with the way they played.

I'm also not going to sit around and pretend that one game means we are going to the Superbowl.

We might, who knows?

Winning a couple of games during the season and finishing 6-10 again isn't productive, it's why we had a 17 year playoff drought.

We got our QB it looks like, which I'm happy with, and have been stoked about him since we got him.

If we finish 6-10 with a meh draft pick though it's not going to help the team as much as finishing 3-13 with a top3 pick would.

 

I know some people believe this, but it's not true.  The Steelers have reloaded a ton of talent over the past 10 years with   We had the drought  because of terrible drafting by the prior regime: 

 

2009: 11th picK: Maybin instead of Orakpo; 

 

2010: 9th pick: CJ Spiller instead of Earl Thomas; or D. Morgan, or M. Pouncey

 

2011: 3rd pick  Dearus.  That one was okay.    But JJ Watt would be better. 

 

2012:  12th pick: Gillmore.  A good pick, and a pick a 6-10 team can get.  

 

2013:  16th pick: EJ Manual.  Xavier Rhodes, Eric Reed, DeAndre Hopkins, and Travis Fredrick all 1st rounders taken later.  

 

2014: 4th Pick: Sammy Watkins.   Yeah, K. Mack would be a much better pick.  or A. Donald, taken at 13; or Ryan Schazier taken at 15.  

 

2015: No 1st round pick.  Some names available around 10: Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon, etc.  

 

I'll stop there, but you get the point.  There is a lot of talent around where a 6-10 team can draft.   You just have to make the right picks.  

Edited September 24, 2018 by RyanC883

[Homey D. Clown]

While I'm not one of those fans who rooted against the Bills, I certainly didn't pick them to win.  They gave me no reason, and just because they put a decent game together this week doesn't mean I'm picking them to win this week.  Actually, I'm not.  I actually don't think losing helps the team grow, nor do I care about picking in the draft early, so if they win, great, and I'm happy.  If they lose, I'm upset, and want to see some sort of growth.  For 20 years, it's been this, wash, rinse repeat story.  Either win a decent amount of games or tank.  4-7 wins a year blows.

[Albany,n.y.]

I'm in the camp that when December comes along if the team has only 2-3 wins, it's better to want to see another loss than a win so that we can get a higher pick.  A 3rd or 4th win truly is meaningless -IN MOST SEASONS.  This season is different than most because many times the reason I've wanted the higher pick is to be in a better position to get a franchise QB.  Since we went all in to get the QB in the past draft, it makes this season different.  This season, the main objective is to see the QB improve.  An improving QB will win those otherwise meaningless games in December.  With a rookie QB at the beginning of his development, there is no such thing as a meaningless game.  Every game in his growth matters.  

 

In past seasons, when I rooted for a loss, that didn't make me any less of a fan for looking at the big picture than the fan who wanted a win in December that cost us a key player.  Sometimes 1 loss is the difference between Ben Roethlisberger and JP Losman.  

[quinnearlysghost88]

how many i told you so posts do we need? we're all fans. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 minute ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

how many i told you so posts do we need? we're all fans. 

How is this an I told you so post?  I am asking if those who assumed that the season was likely a wash because of the first two games, have changed their minds yet and started thinking it is better to win than lose at this time.  As I stated earlier, I get the mindset of "if we are going to lose, may as well lose big", I just wonder if this one win was enough to change the mindset yet regarding this season.

[msw2112]

 

16 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I'm in the camp that when December comes along if the team has only 2-3 wins, it's better to want to see another loss than a win so that we can get a higher pick.  A 3rd or 4th win truly is meaningless -IN MOST SEASONS.  This season is different than most because many times the reason I've wanted the higher pick is to be in a better position to get a franchise QB.  Since we went all in to get the QB in the past draft, it makes this season different.  This season, the main objective is to see the QB improve.  An improving QB will win those otherwise meaningless games in December.  With a rookie QB at the beginning of his development, there is no such thing as a meaningless game.  Every game in his growth matters.  

 

In past seasons, when I rooted for a loss, that didn't make me any less of a fan for looking at the big picture than the fan who wanted a win in December that cost us a key player.  Sometimes 1 loss is the difference between Ben Roethlisberger and JP Losman.  

 

I agree with this previous post.  A couple of years ago, we won our meaningless Week 16 battle and were rewarded by dropping a few slots in the draft.  In the final weeks, if the team is out of the playoffs and trending down, it is better to lose and improve the team's draft status.  Play some of the young guys, let them develop, and see if anyone emerges.  At that point, you are playing for the future.  Week 2 or 3 is WAY too early to be thinking about draft position.  You want to see if you can either win enough to make the playoffs OR develop a positive culture for the future and develop young players (or ideally, do both).  I loved the win yesterday and think it gives us something to build on.  Losing to improve draft position can be discussed in December.  I also agree with the earlier post that says that you can get great players even if you are not drafting in the top 10 (see White, Tre) and you can get lousy players while drafting in the top 10 (see Bills, Buffalo for most of the last 20 years), so where you finish is not as important as how well you draft.  Of course, if you pick higher, you have more top players to choose from and should theoretically be in a better position to pick a better player.  

 

I don't think this team is going to make the playoffs this year, but I will be in Green Bay on Sunday pulling for a Bills win!

[PeterDude]

The two most important goals for this season are to see true development of Allen at QB while getting high draft selections to rebuild the OL, WR & RB positions with young talent.  For the later, the more loses you have, generally the better talent you will be able to select come draft time.  What's more important, a few more wins to a losing season or better players for the future? 

[CaptnCoke11]

These threads are cool.. puff that chest out 

[Heavy Kevi]

I always root for them to win, and then when they don't I justify it by saying we get the higher pick.

 

Until we are officially out of contention for the playoffs, then lose, lose, lose. 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I don't cheer for them to lose.

Going into games I'm looking at the future right now, in a rebuild.

No, I'm not disappointed, I'm actually very happy with the way they played.

I'm also not going to sit around and pretend that one game means we are going to the Superbowl.

We might, who knows?

Winning a couple of games during the season and finishing 6-10 again isn't productive, it's why we had a 17 year playoff drought.

We got our QB it looks like, which I'm happy with, and have been stoked about him since we got him.

If we finish 6-10 with a meh draft pick though it's not going to help the team as much as finishing 3-13 with a top3 pick would.

but if we win more games it might mean we are a pretty good team that doesn't need a total rebuild. The defense playing like it did shouldn't be a total surprise. They were pretty good last season and spent 5 draft picks and 2 key FA's on improving. We certainly need to focus on the offense, but 1 more good draft and some good FA signings could make a big improvement. If yesterday was a good indication of how the team could play, we should hope for more wins.

[Bobby Chandler]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

I can never go against the Bills. Especially this early in the season

I have a real hard time with rooting for losses at any time in the season.  Getting multiple years of Top 5 picks is no guarantee of success - it is more a sign that you will have multiple years of staying in the basement (see Cleveland Browns and Philly 76ers).  It's better to build a culture of winning, rather than make a habit of losing.  Making the current players on the roster into valued professionals is a higher payoff than tanking for a high draft pick.

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I know some people believe this, but it's not true.  The Steelers have reloaded a ton of talent over the past 10 years with   We had the drought  because of terrible drafting by the prior regime: 

 

2009: 11th picK: Maybin instead of Orakpo; 

 

2010: 9th pick: CJ Spiller instead of Earl Thomas; or D. Morgan, or M. Pouncey

 

2011: 3rd pick  Dearus.  That one was okay.    But JJ Watt would be better. 

 

2012:  12th pick: Gillmore.  A good pick, and a pick a 6-10 team can get.  

 

2013:  16th pick: EJ Manual.  Xavier Rhodes, Eric Reed, DeAndre Hopkins, and Travis Fredrick all 1st rounders taken later.  

 

2014: 4th Pick: Sammy Watkins.   Yeah, K. Mack would be a much better pick.  or A. Donald, taken at 13; or Ryan Schazier taken at 15.  

 

2015: No 1st round pick.  Some names available around 10: Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon, etc.  

 

I'll stop there, but you get the point.  There is a lot of talent around where a 6-10 team can draft.   You just have to make the right picks.  

 

I just threw up in my mouth.

Thanks for that trip down memory lane.

I feel like a sexual assault victim in court having to recount the incident.

 

59 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

how many i told you so posts do we need? we're all fans. 

 

Well he tagged me in it, and I wasn't offended that he did.

I don't think he was being malicious.

I'm good with it.

[buffaloboyinATL]

3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Well he tagged me in it, and I wasn't offended that he did.

I don't think he was being malicious.

I'm good with it.

Thank you for getting it. Definitely did not have malicious intent. I was wondering if you (and others) have seen enough to be optimistic yet, or if you view this game as an anomaly. I am well aware that you never said you were cheering AGAINST the Bills, just that you were not cheering for a win "right now".  I would imagine another game or two like this one will go a long way towards increased optimism amongst our fan base.

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, PeterDude said:

The two most important goals for this season are to see true development of Allen at QB while getting high draft selections to rebuild the OL, WR & RB positions with young talent.  For the later, the more loses you have, generally the better talent you will be able to select come draft time.  What's more important, a few more wins to a losing season or better players for the future? 

 

You develop by learning how to win. Not by learning how to lose.  Stop w this insanity. 

[PeterDude]

5 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You develop by learning how to win. Not by learning how to lose.  Stop w this insanity. 

 

No one here is saying they need to lose on purpose, or coach to lose... It's more a question as to what fans WANT out of the season, what's best for the team long term.

Edited September 24, 2018 by PeterDude

[SouthNYfan]

11 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Thank you for getting it. Definitely did not have malicious intent. I was wondering if you (and others) have seen enough to be optimistic yet, or if you view this game as an anomaly. I am well aware that you never said you were cheering AGAINST the Bills, just that you were not cheering for a win "right now".  I would imagine another game or two like this one will go a long way towards increased optimism amongst our fan base.

 

I was always optimistic about the future, after this season, going forward.

I was okay with taking a "mulligan" this year, with all our dead cap and rookie qb., combined with our oline and wr situations.

I know I said I would like a bad record and a high draft pick, but we have a ton of cap space, and looking at big name free agents, they will be less likely to sign here if we are hot garbage this year, so having a really good season with a really good rookie franchise QB and a top flight defense could lure in good free agents.

I don't think we are as good as the score entailed yesterday.

We had some crazy sack-fumbles early on in their territory, which gave us a big boost early.

I Don't foresee that happening all the time.

I'm optimistic and would be happy if we win and are actually good, but not happy if we pull off another 8-8 mediocre campaign.

Anyway, go Allen, go bills.

[GreggTX]

Cheering for a better draft pick is always a consolation prize. It's like worshipping a false idol. The players want to keep their jobs, so they want to win and play well. When you don't win, it only means that you have that much further to go to become a winning team.

[John from Riverside]

I aways feel better with the W

 

The thing is.....getting a W in 7 or 8 games doesnt get us into the playoffs and keeps us out of the blue chip draft picks

 

That is the problem.....we have done too much of that while teams like the jags biuld their dominant defense out of high draft picks.

[Buffalo Boy]

This is right where I was last year but I KNEW TT wasn’t a franchise QB.

Games like yesterday when you are blown away by the results are special!!!!

We just might have a Franchise QB.

Not crowning him yet but smiling ?

[Scott7975]

I was and still am estatic about the win.  I just don't want to be another one of those teams that has a few feel good wins but finishes like 6-10 or 7-9 and ends up with a pick outside the top 10.  Either contend or get a high draft pick.  Winning a few feel good games might feel good in the moment but come draft time it sucks.  Its part of the reason why this team was so bad for so long.

 

For instance last season... It feels great that we got the monkey off our backs, but what could we have done for our QB if we didn't trade away draft picks to get him?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Scott7975

[sleeby]

I doubt anyone wanted 0-16.  Jeez.  I'm ok with 4 wins and even more so with 10 but 7 or 8 wins is meh.  

 

The season is already a success as I see it.  The D is not as bad as thought after preseason through week 2, JA is the QB, the process and coaches are alive and well.  2018 is about root growth and not pretty flowers or fruits imo.   Grow or die.  2019 will see upgrades for the spots that did not improve over the course of this season.  Giddy up.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Anybody who is looking towards the draft in week 1, or hoping for losses before we are eliminated should just go watch college football. If we are still in it, I want us to win every game. No draft bull **** until it’s officially over

[wiskibreth]

Draft position is almost meaningless to me.  It's been proven over and over that with good evaluation there's great talent, difference makers, in the first round all over the board.

 

Intentionally "tanking" is a myth.  Willfully losing for a better draft spot is simply not an option.

 

You've got to remember, every time these players and coaches step onto the field, they're literally playing for their careers.  What players put on tape determines their future earning potential; whether this team or their next.  What kind of contract you think they earn next time if the tape shows them "phoning it in".

 

Coaches need to stay off the hot seat, else their head coaching career becomes short, and their assistant's even shorter.  These people have families at stake.  You think they ever think about next year's draft pick position in light of having to find a new job or uproot the family again?  I don;t think so.

 

[Soda Popinski]

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I aways feel better with the W

 

The thing is.....getting a W in 7 or 8 games doesnt get us into the playoffs and keeps us out of the blue chip draft picks

 

That is the problem.....we have done too much of that while teams like the jags biuld their dominant defense out of high draft picks.

If we draft better consistently, we won't be winning only 7-8 games.  We haven't drafted well at all in the past 20 years.   

[John from Riverside]

I will tell you what....McD certainly is not coaching to lose

1 minute ago, Soda Popinski said:

If we draft better consistently, we won't be winning only 7-8 games.  We haven't drafted well at all in the past 20 years.   

I feel like our last 2 drafts may have been pretty good......the big thing is getting those top draft picks right and hoping that some late projects work out....the Milano pick is a perfect example.

[Doc Brown]

The only time I remember actively rooting for my favorite team to lose was the year of the McDavid/Eichel draft.  I wanted to guarantee we got one of those guys.  It sucked rooting for the Penguins near the end of the year.  If there was a clear cut #1 (say a Bruce Smith) that was head and shoulders above the rest of the pack and we were 1-12 of whatever then I could see the rationale of rooting against this team.  Other than that, forget it.

[Soda Popinski]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I will tell you what....McD certainly is not coaching to lose

I feel like our last 2 drafts may have been pretty good......the big thing is getting those top draft picks right and hoping that some late projects work out....the Milano pick is a perfect example.

hopefully Teller and McCloud will be good examples too.  

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Soda Popinski said:

hopefully Teller and McCloud will be good examples too.  

I think Teller doesnt get a shot unless we have an injury....but I think if he gets his shot he is a starter and we never look back.

 

It is amazing how just average center play made that much of a difference on this line

[Aussie Joe]

I want then to be winning games and Allen and the other young guys on this team  to be developing confidence for the future..

 

As has been said earlier , having the high pick in itself doesn’t mean anything..

 

2011 draft is a case in point... Bills picked Dareus at 3 when there were 10 better players they could have picked..

Edited September 24, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[Mark92]

I will admit that I am on the camp that was ready for the #1 pick.  For me,  I don't want us to go 6-10 and miss the playoffs and end up with the 13th pick.  If we are going to miss the playoffs I want a decent pick so we can get a game changer.  I know where my fandom with the Bills is at so I don't need anyone questioning it.  The bigger question is how many of you were pissed when Allen was drafted?  There are videos showing your identity by the way all over the web.  

[GrizzReaper]

I never want them to lose... My Sunday is wrecked when they lose bad like they did the first two weeks. Now if it's like week 14 and they only have one or two wins and are genuinely in the hunt for the top pick the I'm not gonna lie I'd rather they take the Ls and get the pick.

 

At week 3 at 1-2 no way... I'm still optimistic they can win games. Honestly I think it's even premature to say they're going to be horrid all year. They just went and beat down a talented Vikings team in their own place. You don't do that with a horrible team looking to lose out. So I'm looking forward to next week. We get to make an assessment was the Vikings a fluke win or is this team better than we are crediting them for?

[Soda Popinski]

we also have 10 picks in 2019 if we want someone bad enough, move up and get him.  we don't need 10 rookies.   We need 3-4 starters to go with the 3-4 starters we sign in free agency.  And then we need 3-4 developmental guys like a Milano or a Teller.  

 

They get this OL sorted out, and get some WRs in who can catch, the defense will continue to get better as Edmunds grows and we find a long term solution to #2CB.