[Vague Title] It continues... Josh Allen...

[Dablitzkrieg]

3 hours ago, Commonsense said:

In college we once used a piece of a pizza box to “roll” up some weed, we all got very sick. I’m not sure if pastrami will work but definitely don’t use a pizza box. I’d go with the bacon. 

oh the irony with your name

[LeGOATski]

I accepted the fact that he'll never be a franchise QB before the Bills even drafted him. 

 

Just gonna enjoy the ride.

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

I accepted the fact that he'll never be a franchise QB before the Bills even drafted him. 

 

Just gonna enjoy the ride.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

Has anyone here tried smoking pastrami or Canadian bacon before?

 

I'm gonna try some pork belly REAL soon. Cure it first, too.

 

[BmarvB]

Give the kid a chance. Training camp hasn't opened yet. GEEZ!

[4_kidd_4]

8 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

I'm gonna try some pork belly REAL soon. Cure it first, too.

 

 

Same here, planning on using a Weber instead of a smoker though.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Same here, planning on using a Weber instead of a smoker though.

 

I have a combo grill/smoker. It works real well, so far.

 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, berg1029 said:

 

 

He played pretty well at the Senior Bowl.  He ended 9-13 for 150 yards, 19 yards rushing, with 2 TD passes.  Not too shabby.  Baker Mayfield, on the same team, (the North) looked abysmal.  Mayfield went 3-7 for 9 yards with -4 yards rushing.  My memory is that Mayifled left the game after only a few series, because of some family issue.  So Mayfield definitely had an excuse for not being able to perform.  Tanner Lee (6th round QB to Jax) also was on the North and didn't perform too well

 

If the Senior Bowl performance translates great. But I think it is a game you shouldn't read too much into. No blitzing, only 4 man rushes etc. 

[BillsfanAZ]

19 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I accepted the fact that he'll never be a franchise QB before the Bills even drafted him. 

 

Just gonna enjoy the ride.

This what I dont understand. A ton of college QB's that had great numbers didnt do much in the NFL. Playing QB is more than stats alone. For a QB to be successful it takes the right combo of system, coaching, and talent around him. How does anyone know what kind of QB he will be even before he gets drafted?? 

[dubs]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Josh Allen is my internal conflict. 

 

The Bills fan in me wants him to succed. But that also empowers the old school thinking. 

 

The Analytics and new way to look at talent fan in me wants him to fail, because success will be the old school thinkers Mountain and well what about case. 

 

 

 

 

Now that said. Go Allen be great. 

 

Or it could be that football analytics is still evolving and it misses sometimes. Just like pretty much every other industry that uses data analytics. 

 

 

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think the 4th of those is opinion.  His 2016 tape is better (not a lot, but better) than his 2017 tape.  

Yeah, I agree it's an opinion, but it's based on fact.    His trajectory is

 

1. Out of high school no D-1 team wanted him, so he went to Jr. College

2.  Then a D-1 school wanted him, so that's upward.

3.  Going into his first year starting, he wasn't on many people's NFL radar.

4.  After his first year starting, he WAS on the NFL radar, so that's upward.

5.   After his second year starting he was clearly in the top 4 QBs coming out, so that's upward.

6.  Good Senior Bowl (yes, that's a small sample, but it's something), so that's upward. 

 

He's also had lower level coaching than most high-profile QBs.   He was in a tiny high school, a junior college and a backwater D-1 school.  Compare that to the other three - highly touted out of high school, no doubt going to big-time QB clinics and showcases, then multi-year experience at big-time football factories - Oklahoma. USC and UCLA.   I think it's a good bet that Allen is less well-developed, technically, than any of the other three, so he has more room to grow, which also suggests that he's trending upward.  

 

Still, none of it means anything.   Let's see what he looks like on an NFL playing field.  

Edited July 24, 2018 by Shaw66

[Da webster guy]

I love how they use the term "empirical evidence" as some sort of qualification.

 

That literally means they haven't witnessed or observed him having success in the NFL.     Sadly, this hack writing is clickbait crap and they got me.  Well done hacks......

[nucci]

56 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

or a GD practice.  Everyone settle the hell down please.

Good luck with that

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, BillsMafia13 said:

Ill admit I thought we drafted the wrong Josh at first.  But the more I thought about it I definitely came around.  Im sure ill get torched for this but, Rosen seems too mentally soft to handle buffalo, the weather, lifestyle around here.  Plus his dads a spinal surgeon and hes had 2 concussions, how much does he really want it?

  This might all mean jack, but Allen was baling hay in high school trying to get a shot.  No Manning camps, coaches, or pros to guide him. Ill take his grind, plus McBeanes guidance over whatever Rosen would have been.

 

Didn’t Allen miss more games in college due to injury than Rosen?

 

And why do people bring up his dad’s profession as some sort of negative against him? If he’s that well off that he can just walk away at any point tell you how bad he wants it since he’s actually putting in the work to try and be great?

[ganesh]

4 hours ago, jr1 said:

they haven't even had a preseason game yet

they haven't even had a TC yet!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, BmarvB said:

Give the kid a chance. Training camp hasn't opened yet. GEEZ!

 

 

....you're asking WAAAAAAAAAAY too much here.............he's on the block with McBeane.....

[billmon06]

As a almost lifetime resident of Wyoming, I'm one of the lucky few who have seen Josh Allen play in person.  Will he be a bust?  Maybe, but don't bet against him.  Allen has dealt with non-believers his entire football career.  He wasn't coddled, he wasn't given special treatment.  Hell, he had to play football at Wyoming because no one else was interested.  The Buffalo Bills drafted a tough, athletic, intelligent football player with a giant chip on his shoulder and an intense drive to prove the doubters wrong.  

[Paulus]

Whatever gets the clicks, at this point in the season. I need to start an NFL website and just constantly write speculative articles which presume wild theories in order to make erroneous conclusions.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, billmon06 said:

As a almost lifetime resident of Wyoming, I'm one of the lucky few who have seen Josh Allen play in person.  Will he be a bust?  Maybe, but don't bet against him.  Allen has dealt with non-believers his entire football career.  He wasn't coddled, he wasn't given special treatment.  Hell, he had to play football at Wyoming because no one else was interested.  The Buffalo Bills drafted a tough, athletic, intelligent football player with a giant chip on his shoulder and an intense drive to prove the doubters wrong.  

 

...thanks for sharing bud......now don your Kevlar vest 'cause the TBD critics are mobilizing....SMH.......stuff can't be true.............

[Figster]

1 minute ago, billmon06 said:

As a almost lifetime resident of Wyoming, I'm one of the lucky few who have seen Josh Allen play in person.  Will he be a bust?  Maybe, but don't bet against him.  Allen has dealt with non-believers his entire football career.  He wasn't coddled, he wasn't given special treatment.  Hell, he had to play football at Wyoming because no one else was interested.  The Buffalo Bills drafted a tough, athletic, intelligent football player with a giant chip on his shoulder and an intense drive to prove the doubters wrong.  

Nice 1st post billmon06

 

 

[JoPar_v2]

Seems like in all the Allen threads one of the first things defenders say is, “well he’s got drive, look where he came from, etc.” I don’t think anyone has ever questioned his drive (OTOH, the same people seem quick to dismiss Rosen on the same grounds.) What makes people worry about Allen is talent, plain and simple. His accuracy, his awareness and decision making are all suspect coming into the league. I hope he can improve those, but I’m not terribly confident he will.

[fansince88]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

Has anyone here tried smoking pastrami or Canadian bacon before?

Smoked Pastrami on Rye bread. The best! Canadian bacon...its just ham.  

[ngbills]

5 hours ago, RobH063 said:

Mike Trout struck out hundreds of times growing up playing baseball. He made hundreds of errors too. I knew he would never be any good.

No Trout was not Josh Allen...

 

Trout attended Millville Senior High School in Millville, New Jersey where he played both baseball and basketball,^[16] earning five letters (three in baseball and two in basketball).^[8] In his junior year, he threw a no-hitter against Egg Harbor Township High School. The Thunderbolts made it to the state playoffs and were defeated by Cherry Hill High School East.^[14] He started as a pitcher and shortstop, and was shifted to the outfield during his senior year.^[17] That year, he hit 18 home runs, a New Jersey high school record.^[18] Trout had committed to play baseball at East Carolina University prior to the 2009 MLB Draft.^[8] Millville initially planned to retire Trout's jersey number, but instead began awarding it to the team captain, starting in 2012.^[19]

Trout played travel ball with Tri-State Arsenal, one of the premier travel programs in the Northeast. He began working with the coaches at Arsenal at age 14.^[20] Trout played in various tournaments with Tri-State Arsenal, including the Perfect Game WWBA Championships in Jupiter, Florida in 2007 and 2008.^[21]

In the summer before his senior year, Trout attended the Area Code Games in southern California, where he went 6-for-11 against some of the best players in the country.^[22] Angels scout Greg Morhardt, who had played in the minor leagues with Trout's father, claimed Mike was the fastest and strongest 17-year-old he had ever seen.^[9]

He started his professional career in 2009 playing for the Arizona Angels of the rookie-level Arizona League, hitting .360 with a .418 OBP and .506 SLG with one home run, 25 runs batted in (RBIs), and 13 stolen bases in 187 plate appearances over 39 games. He was beaten out in being named AZL Most Valuable Player by Cody Decker.^[24][25] He finished the season playing for the Cedar Rapids Kernels of the Class A Midwest League, hitting .267 over 20 plate appearances in five games.^{[citation needed]}

Before the 2010 season, Trout was considered the Angels' third-best prospect and the 85th-best in all of baseball by Baseball America.^[26][27] He started the season playing for Cedar Rapids, where he hit .362 with a .454 on-base percentage (OBP) and a .526 slugging percentage (SLG) with six home runs, 39 RBIs, and 45 stolen bases in 82 games. He was selected to play in the All-Star Futures Game.^[18] In July, Baseball America named Trout the second-best overall baseball prospect.^[28] After the Futures game, he was promoted to the Rancho Cucamonga Quakes of the Class A-Advanced California League.^[29]

After the 2010 season, Trout was named 2010 J.G. Taylor Spink Award as the Topps Minor League Player of the Year. At just 19 years and two months, he was the youngest player to win this award.^[30] He was also named a Baseball America All-Star as well as a Topps Class A All-Star.^[31]

Prior to the 2011 season, Trout was ranked number one by ESPN's Keith Law in his 2011 top 100 prospects list^[32] and by MLB's Jonathan Mayo.^[33] Trout started the 2011 season with the Arkansas Travelers of the Class AA Texas League. He hit .324 with nine home runs, 27 RBIs, and 28 stolen bases in his first 75 games.^[34]

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

Smoked Pastrami on Rye bread. The best! Canadian bacon...its just ham.  

 

...yup...saw some in a Cornwall strip club......

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Seems like in all the Allen threads one of the first things defenders say is, “well he’s got drive, look where he came from, etc.” I don’t think anyone has ever questioned his drive (OTOH, the same people seem quick to dismiss Rosen on the same grounds.) What makes people worry about Allen is talent, plain and simple. His accuracy, his awareness and decision making are all suspect coming into the league. I hope he can improve those, but I’m not terribly confident he will.

I agree all those things are suspect.   I'd argue that they're all suspect with the other rookie QBs, too.  None of them has ever been in an NFL game, and they haven't shown they can do anything.   There plenty of explanations why Allen did those things less well in college, maybe the explanations, maybe they aren't.  

 

But Allen has a lot of talent that we DON'T have to worry about.   He can throw every pass the NFL demands.  He can throw deep, he can throw with touch, he throw bullets, he can throw the sideline out routes.   He has a quick release.   He's big and strong.  He's faster than any of the others in the top four rookies drafted.   In short, he has a lot the other guys don't have.   Mayfield's not getting any taller, Rosen's not getting any bigger, Darnold's not getting any smarter.   

 

I'm just gonna wait and see.  

[oldmanfan]

Every thread like this about Allen, all I can think of is Remember the Titans and Coach Boone:

 

Let the boys play!!!!!!

[Bobby Hooks]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree all those things are suspect.   I'd argue that they're all suspect with the other rookie QBs, too.  None of them has ever been in an NFL game, and they haven't shown they can do anything.   There plenty of explanations why Allen did those things less well in college, maybe the explanations, maybe they aren't.  

 

But Allen has a lot of talent that we DON'T have to worry about.   He can throw every pass the NFL demands.  He can throw deep, he can throw with touch, he throw bullets, he can throw the sideline out routes.   He has a quick release.   He's big and strong.  He's faster than any of the others in the top four rookies drafted.   In short, he has a lot the other guys don't have.   Mayfield's not getting any taller, Rosen's not getting any bigger, Darnold's not getting any smarter.   

 

I'm just gonna wait and see.  

I’m in the same boat, kinda. I wanted the other Josh but I’m fully on board and willing to see it play out. 

 

After and during the draft I was fairly bummed but did an excellent job since then on selling myself on what Allen does bring to the table instead of focusing on what he may not. 

[without a drought]

As Jack Reacher would say. "Hope for the best, plan for the worst."

[CSBill]

5 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

Hour 1 from Howard & Jeremy this morning on the Football Outsiders write up...(which I've posted the link below).

 

https://app.radio.com/s2OuDBPrGO

 

 

Man... this guy scares me. This write up.... wow.

 

 

 

From the Write Up:

 

"A parody of an NFL quarterback prospect, Allen was abysmal in 2017 en route to not even making an all-Mountain West team. We don't want to say there's absolutely no chance he'll ever be good – he's got a deep ball, he's got some ability to make plays on the run and under pressure – but there is zero empirical evidence to support him becoming a reasonable NFL starting quarterback. And if you thought the excuses for his supporting cast were bad in Wyoming, wait till you see this Bills offense. ... Allen is the battleground that old scouts are going to die on, whether they're right about it or, as all evidence suggests, wrong about it."

 

 

 

[BN] Blitz newsletter: Get your popcorn ready for this Josh Allen take – The Buffalo News
https://buffalonews.com/2018/07/24/josh-allen-take-football-outsiders-bills-almanac-scouts/

 

Lazy, unoriginal writing.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I’m in the same boat, kinda. I wanted the other Josh but I’m fully on board and willing to see it play out. 

 

After and during the draft I was fairly bummed but did an excellent job since then on selling myself on what Allen does bring to the table instead of focusing on what he may not. 

I'm excited about him because he has brains, is a competitor and is a dedicated guy.   He's a perfect fit for McDermott.  I think he's EJ Manuel with a football head on his shoulders.   I expect he'll be starting before the end of the season.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

sad part is even if he tells his agent, "just get me the best deal possible regardless of what the other two do( Mayfield & Darnold)...I need to be there"..... the TBD gang stills rolls out the pigeon stained "red carpet"....

[fansince88]

12 minutes ago, The Drought said:

As Jack Reacher would say. "Hope for the best, plan for the worst."

Both good movies.

[TheElectricCompany]

34 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Seems like in all the Allen threads one of the first things defenders say is, “well he’s got drive, look where he came from, etc.” I don’t think anyone has ever questioned his drive (OTOH, the same people seem quick to dismiss Rosen on the same grounds.) What makes people worry about Allen is talent, plain and simple. His accuracy, his awareness and decision making are all suspect coming into the league. I hope he can improve those, but I’m not terribly confident he will.

 

I don't want to diminish a quality work ethic and drive, but let's be real, we are talking about elite athletes.

Nearly all of them are film, gym and training rats. Sure, some guys take it a step further, but most of them are working at their craft from sunup to sundown. 

This is not a case of everyone working 40 hours, and Allen will succeed because he's willing to work 60.

What makes people worry is that when you turn on film, or look at stats, Josh Allen has been a mediocre QB, plain and simple. That's a really tough con to look past for a top 7 pick! 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[Jeff1954]

Great conversation. I have some questions please. Allen hasn’t signed yet. If he hasn’t signed by Thursday, does he become a “hold out” from training camp? How are his odds of developing this year and seeing the field affected if he doesn’t fully participate in training camp?

Thanks for your answers.

[without a drought]

3 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

Both good movies.

Never saw either, read all the books, just couldn't get past Tom Cruise playing Jack Reacher who is 6'5" 250lbs and has dirty blond hair. The stories are good so I'm sure the movies were well done.

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

I don't want to diminish a quality work ethic and drive, but let's be real, we are talking about elite athletes.

Nearly all of them are film, gym and training rats. Sure, some guys take it a step further, but most of them are working at their craft from sunup to sundown. 

This is not a case of everyone working 40 hours, and Allen will succeed because he's willing to work 60.

What makes people worry is that when you turn on film, or look at stats, Josh Allen has been a mediocre QB, plain and simple. That's a really tough con to look past for a top 7 pick! 

 

 

Have you read what Beane said? He and his staff turned on the film and studied it for a long time. They didn't see a mediocre QB.  

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

Has anyone here tried smoking pastrami or Canadian bacon before?

you mean brisket?  to make pastrami ?
its a process

[without a drought]

2 minutes ago, Jeff1954 said:

Great conversation. I have some questions please. Allen hasn’t signed yet. If he hasn’t signed by Thursday, does he become a “hold out” from training camp? How are his odds of developing this year and seeing the field affected if he doesn’t fully participate in training camp?

Thanks for your answers.

If he were to miss any significant time I would get ready for AJ or Nate this season. I don't think this will be the case though.

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, The Drought said:

If he were to miss any significant time I would get ready for AJ or Nate this season. I don't think this will be the case though.

I think you better get ready for AJM or Peterman regardless

 

ps

 like the avatar !

Edited July 24, 2018 by 3rdand12

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

I think you better get ready for AJM or Peterman regardless

I'm expecting  AJ.   McD will want his experience on the field.  His defense will keep games close, so McD will want no mistakes. That's AJ.