Chris Ivory's Role In The Running Game?

[eball]

Tootsie?

[4merper4mer]

14 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

whats your opinion on Blu cheese vs Ranch ?

 I say we give him a season before we preemptively judge him as a Buffalo Bill. I think he will be a great fit although unspectacular .
any thing more is bonus au jus
 

sure it's not roll ?

I believe all NFL fields are crowned so a roll would be an interesting strategery.  But enough with the sideline to sideline crap, we need more north/south.

[Tenhigh]

14 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

whats your opinion on Blu cheese vs Ranch ?

 I say we give him a season before we preemptively judge him as a Buffalo Bill. I think he will be a great fit although unspectacular .
any thing more is bonus au jus
 

sure it's not roll ?

Just role with it. 

[Behindenemylines]

14 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

whats your opinion on Blu cheese vs Ranch ?

 I say we give him a season before we preemptively judge him as a Buffalo Bill. I think he will be a great fit although unspectacular .
any thing more is bonus au jus
 

sure it's not roll ?

Dying laughing.   This is why I read TSW every day.  

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

14 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

If the O-line was still intact, I would agree. With all of it in flux and unknown, and the Daboll run scheme largely untested I am holding my breath. Ingram and Ivory have been two RBs I always enjoy watching run, because they run with a bit of nasty. Just not sure what Chris Ivory we are getting, and how the O-Line, scheme etc will meld. IMO it is a good risk for both parties.

 

It should also be known Ivory has had a bit of a fumble history. His ball security is my primary concern.

 

This is where I'm at with Ivory. I'm not "down" on his signing, so to speak, but I feel like a lot of fans have a "grass is greener" approach. Tolbert wouldn't have been so bad if not for the 2 fumbles, one of which came on a big run, right after he plowed through a defender. Still not a "great" compliment to Shady, though, and Cadet looked much better suited for the role (runs a bit like Shady as well).

 

I think Ivory is an upgrade from Tolbert, but at his age, it's hard to guess just how productive he'll be. He wasn't very good last year, but that's not always a true indicator of how someone will look in a new city. But a lot of his production (and other skill players) will be dependent on the offensive line and QB. We can't say much about our offense with a new OC, but the scheme that he's supposedly bringing to the Bills typically involves RBs staying in to help block on passing plays more frequently than in West Coast offenses. And if the offensive line is as bad as peceived (or just not as good as it's been), that might influence more chipping and blocking by the backs. At the same time, RB and TE are outlet receivers for young QBs, so that might inflate the reception numbers a bit. 

 

With all of that said, I don't see our backs having a very high number of receptions this year. And with Ivory, I have less expectations for him than others seem to have, but not necessarily due just to his age. But I'm not going to judge him just on numbers alone either. 

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Oh, just role with it, dude. 

 

I have always loved Ivory as a player. Don't know if he is shot or not. Obviously, hopefully not. But he's a great complement to Shady. Looks like Cadet is 100% back, which is a third type. 

I really likes Cadet last year and the added dimension he brought out if the backfield

[BmarvB]

Ivory still has enough gas left in the tank to be an upgrade over Tolbert. He can give us a good year or two while one of the youngsters develop.

[aristocrat]

how many times did tolbert get a run call to go outside the tackles when the guy cant turn a corner?  ivory should be able to do that.  i'd like to see 500 yards catching and 175 yards catching.  he's a sure handed catcher.  

[Freddie's Dead]

The Germans?  Forget it, he's roleing.

[jr1]

370 rushing yards probably

[White Linen]

17 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Taken into what context?  You can't state that and then not give the context to which you are referring.  It is illogical.

The Jags had just as bad a passing game as the Bills did and were run heavy with a clear #1 back.  Seems pretty similar to Bills 2017.

Tolbert was terrible in 2017.  He should have never made the team and his presence the entire year played a role in no comp picks.  I'm happy they moved on and if Ivory looks anything like his 2015 season it will be a great signing.  

You just don't see that many backs declining in YPC have a resurrection.  But like you and others have said, 30 catches, good run blocking, and a few key reps per game may be just enough.

 

 

 

 

This is incorrect and you can say wrong context if you'd prefer.  The Jags starting RB already ran like Ivory so he wasn't a compliment.  They obviously in the top half of the year just used Ivory as a similar back - thunder and thunder, if you will.  It had some success but they later in the year went to T.J. Yeldon, who has the size to be powerfull for sure but is definitely a make you miss RB.  Yeldon is just better than Ivory - so they obviously went with him.  

 

We need Ivory as a change to what Shady does.  It's really that simple.  He's likely not going to get a ton of work but we didn't have a runner like him on the roster and it's a positive signing to fill a roll.

[John from Riverside]

51 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

This is incorrect and you can say wrong context if you'd prefer.  The Jags starting RB already ran like Ivory so he wasn't a compliment.  They obviously in the top half of the year just used Ivory as a similar back - thunder and thunder, if you will.  It had some success but they later in the year went to T.J. Yeldon, who has the size to be powerfull for sure but is definitely a make you miss RB.  Yeldon is just better than Ivory - so they obviously went with him.  

 

We need Ivory as a change to what Shady does.  It's really that simple.  He's likely not going to get a ton of work but we didn't have a runner like him on the roster and it's a positive signing to fill a roll.

On 3rd and 2 and goaline.....I want Ivory getting those carries instead of Shady.....if Shady goes down we are in serious trouble and those are the plays where you take the more vicious hits

[Augie]

19 hours ago, matter2003 said:

"Role"...its "Role" not "Roll"

 

But.....can you still butter it???

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

But.....can you still butter it???

Ask "Tubby" Tolbert...I think he stole it all hahaha

[White Linen]

24 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

On 3rd and 2 and goaline.....I want Ivory getting those carries instead of Shady.....if Shady goes down we are in serious trouble and those are the plays where you take the more vicious hits

 

I can certainly understand your concern on injury.  It'll be interesting to see what the Bills do in the scenario you've described.  Shady for being a smaller back - does some of his best work on the goaline and really likes being the one to score in that situation.  

[swnybillsfan]

7 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

I can certainly understand your concern on injury.  It'll be interesting to see what the Bills do in the scenario you've described.  Shady for being a smaller back - does some of his best work on the goaline and really likes being the one to score in that situation.  

i think it all depends here. if you are going to spread everyone out and have multiple options, i want shady in there. if you are going to bunch up all the big guys and have about 5,000 lbs of humanity shoved into a phonebooth, go ahead and give it to ivory. 

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

I can certainly understand your concern on injury.  It'll be interesting to see what the Bills do in the scenario you've described.  Shady for being a smaller back - does some of his best work on the goaline and really likes being the one to score in that situation.  

I think this is the year where we need to start saving Shady from himself......I have definately become a Shady fan.  He is the heart and soul of this team.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Ask "Tubby" Tolbert...I think he stole it all hahaha

That was the key to our short yardage plans! 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 6/24/2018 at 4:28 PM, matter2003 said:

"Role"...its "Role" not "Roll"

 

....LOL....long since corrected my "senior moment".....besides no matter what kind of "roll", he won't cost us a lotta "dough" and could even be on the "rise" in 2018, right??..............

Edited June 25, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Rocky Landing]

21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....LOL....long since corrected my "senior moment".....besides no matter what kind of "roll", he won't cost us a lotta "dough" and could even be on the "rise" in 2018, right??..............

But, do we knead him?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Rocky Landing said:

But, do we knead him?

 

 

 

....you win....just over soaked my Depends...ain't NO WAY in hell I could top that......................

[White Linen]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think this is the year where we need to start saving Shady from himself......I have definately become a Shady fan.  He is the heart and soul of this team.

 

Fair point and I'm a huge fan of his too.  I just wonder what his reaction might be if that's what happens.  He's at the point in his career that legacy is important and he's clearly aware of where he'd like to be in the history books.  

[Formerly Allan in MD]

On 6/24/2018 at 4:14 PM, RocCityRoller said:

 

If the O-line was still intact, I would agree. With all of it in flux and unknown, and the Daboll run scheme largely untested I am holding my breath. Ingram and Ivory have been two RBs I always enjoy watching run, because they run with a bit of nasty. Just not sure what Chris Ivory we are getting, and how the O-Line, scheme etc will meld. IMO it is a good risk for both parties.

 

It should also be known Ivory has had a bit of a fumble history. His ball security is my primary concern.

With our OL, a good bit of nasty will help.

[3rdand12]

12 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Dying laughing.   This is why I read TSW every day.  

called 911 for you^

 I was mentioned for lacking context upstream. and true enough.  I assume some folks have looked into how Ivory was used last season and perhaps a bit further back to see what changed. Because i wanted to know why they picked up another Tolbert ? seriously. 30 years old off a seemingly weak year. Not a great recipe as backup to Shady ?
Hard hitter who can get outside tackles. can catch can block. and is in great health by what i have read.
 My friends responded better than i could about the Context. Thanks folks !
I have been able to get positive about Chris Ivory . Think he is a solid steady pickup. And he might be better used than Mike Tolbert was. again this was mentioned quite correctly earlier.
I like Cadet Ivory Shady  to start the season.

because of the humor for sure, but the excellent insight plus dialogue is why I keep tuning in .
Thanks Behind !

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I can certainly understand your concern on injury.  It'll be interesting to see what the Bills do in the scenario you've described.  Shady for being a smaller back - does some of his best work on the goaline and really likes being the one to score in that situation.  

depends on that O line now doesn't it ?

 

: )

[blacklabel]

I presume his role will involve carrying the football when it is handed to him or thrown to him.

 

I kid. I kinda always felt Ivory was a bit underrated. He should be an ideal compliment to Shady. Defenses should get tired from chasing down 25 and when he needs a breather, let Ivory run over some guys. 

 

A lot is made of his YPC during his run in Jacksonville, but their other back, TJ Yeldon, a 2nd round pick, averaged 3.6 yards in 2016. Keep in mind, these guys were working in the prolific, bleeding edge, otherworldly offensive schemes built by Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett. Marrone lives for that "three yards and a cloud of dust" BS and he's a stubborn turd dumpling who would rather "impose his will" than adjust and adapt to the changes of the game. When he left Buffalo, several OL said the guy would never adjust or deviate away from his inside zone. Plus, he wanted behemoths at every position on the OL. Kouandjio and Henderson were both drafted for their size, as was Cyril Richardson (who was abysmal in his rookie year yet Marrone waited eight weeks before finally replacing him with Kraig Urbik who is by no means an all-star but he certainly was better than Richardson). So he has these monster OLs and prefers big, bruising backs, doesn't adjust his blocking schemes, loves "old school" football so that's exactly what you're gonna get when combining those things. Big backs behind big OL averaging three and a half yards a carry. 

 

While Daboll is unproven in the NFL, I believe he has the proper mindset for today's NFL. He will identify what his guys do well and scheme around that. That alone should make some difference. And although Ivory is 30, he doesn't have a lot of mileage on him. Career average of just under 12 carries a game, consistently a secondary option aside from 2015 which was the only season in which he was "the guy" he went over 1000 yards, scored 7 rushing TDs and averaged 4.3 YPC, not too shabby.

 

Obviously Shady is the focal point but Ivory and Cadet combine for a pretty diverse group. It's up to Daboll to figure out how best to utilize them. 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

Fair point and I'm a huge fan of his too.  I just wonder what his reaction might be if that's what happens.  He's at the point in his career that legacy is important and he's clearly aware of where he'd like to be in the history books.  

I might think he wants to maintain his health to accomplish those goals.

better to pick the battles  maybe?
Daboll likes matchups, and I could see a decent rotation

6 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I presume his role will involve carrying the football when it is handed to him or thrown to him.

 

I kid. I kinda always felt Ivory was a bit underrated. He should be an ideal compliment to Shady. Defenses should get tired from chasing down 25 and when he needs a breather, let Ivory run over some guys. 

 

A lot is made of his YPC during his run in Jacksonville, but their other back, TJ Yeldon, a 2nd round pick, averaged 3.6 yards in 2016. Keep in mind, these guys were working in the prolific, bleeding edge, otherworldly offensive schemes built by Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett. Marrone lives for that "three yards and a cloud of dust" BS and he's a stubborn turd dumpling who would rather "impose his will" than adjust and adapt to the changes of the game. When he left Buffalo, several OL said the guy would never adjust or deviate away from his inside zone. Plus, he wanted behemoths at every position on the OL. Kouandjio and Henderson were both drafted for their size, as was Cyril Richardson (who was abysmal in his rookie year yet Marrone waited eight weeks before finally replacing him with Kraig Urbik who is by no means an all-star but he certainly was better than Richardson). So he has these monster OLs and prefers big, bruising backs, doesn't adjust his blocking schemes, loves "old school" football so that's exactly what you're gonna get when combining those things. Big backs behind big OL averaging three and a half yards a carry. 

 

While Daboll is unproven in the NFL, I believe he has the proper mindset for today's NFL. He will identify what his guys do well and scheme around that. That alone should make some difference. And although Ivory is 30, he doesn't have a lot of mileage on him. Career average of just under 12 carries a game, consistently a secondary option aside from 2015 which was the only season in which he was "the guy" he went over 1000 yards, scored 7 rushing TDs and averaged 4.3 YPC, not too shabby.

 

Obviously Shady is the focal point but Ivory and Cadet combine for a pretty diverse group. It's up to Daboll to figure out how best to utilize them. 

I laughed 

  cried too. Marroon.
Darned detailed post.

Shady is just the guy to tire them out. Maybe not like Barry Sanders but may a little bit. I recall One D Coach had his team chasing chickens to prep for Barry Sanders.
McCoy does that.
Ivory has done what you implied. What I expected Tolbert to do... Grind 
But he has a much broader skill set.
as you mentioned, a true change of pace.  and Cadet brings another facet i think balances the whole shebang. sorry i agreed so well with your post : )

[machine gun kelly]

On 6/24/2018 at 4:14 PM, RocCityRoller said:

 

If the O-line was still intact, I would agree. With all of it in flux and unknown, and the Daboll run scheme largely untested I am holding my breath. Ingram and Ivory have been two RBs I always enjoy watching run, because they run with a bit of nasty. Just not sure what Chris Ivory we are getting, and how the O-Line, scheme etc will meld. IMO it is a good risk for both parties.

 

It should also be known Ivory has had a bit of a fumble history. His ball security is my primary concern.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth.  Old time afl guy was right on Ivory, but if the line sucks it doesn’t matter.  We have to pray Dawkins can perform well at LT, and Groy and the other new addition can play as well as Center as Wood, and lastly Miller comes back to 2016 form.  That’s a lot of if’s, but I believe in this Mgmt and coaching staff from head to toe.

 

i cling to no one heard of Poyer before he basically had a pro bowl year this past year, and the defense is going to be strong.

[Behindenemylines]

17 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....LOL....long since corrected my "senior moment".....besides no matter what kind of "roll", he won't cost us a lotta "dough" and could even be on the "rise" in 2018, right??..............

I see what you did there

[Doc]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

You took the words right out of my mouth.  Old time afl guy was right on Ivory, but if the line sucks it doesn’t matter.  We have to pray Dawkins can perform well at LT, and Groy and the other new addition can play as well as Center as Wood, and lastly Miller comes back to 2016 form.  That’s a lot of if’s, but I believe in this Mgmt and coaching staff from head to toe.

 

i cling to no one heard of Poyer before he basically had a pro bowl year this past year, and the defense is going to be strong.

 

I have far more faith in their evaluation of defensive players than offensive ones.  I hope that changes.

[RocCityRoller]

On 6/24/2018 at 5:03 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...probably my useless baseless yip (Centrum Silver does NOT work). but I like Daboll taking charge relative to OL schemes..to paraphrase, thought he said it would be "scheme specific" to the opposition's defense (tweaks versus radical changes IMO).....perhaps wrong, but Castillo gives me the impression of "one size fits all"....would love to see Cadet/Murphy being the next "Kenneth Davis clone(s)" to allow Daboll greater flexibility with Shady more like versatile Thurmal..............

 

Miss Kenny Davis, the old Texas Tornado was a super #2 RB

[TigerJ]

I think as a runner, Ivory is mostly a one cut north-south runner.  His yards per carry are going to depend a lot on the initial hole the line makse for him.  He's probably somewhat faster than Tolbert, but lacks about 30 lbs of Tolbert's weight.  I assume he'll play a similar role to Tolbert, but he's a very different runner. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Chris Ivory's punishing running style is a welcome addition to the Bills backfield

Nothing has come easy for Chris Ivory in his NFL career. He entered the league as an undrafted free agent from tiny Tiffin University and now nine years later the Bills are counting on Ivory to fill a key role in the Bills running back room.

 

“It’s a blessing for one,” said Ivory about entering his ninth NFL season. “Being that I made it this far, I think it’s a great accomplishment, especially coming out as an undrafted free agent. When I look back and I think it’s just a blessing.”

 

The Bills brought in Ivory to complement LeSean McCoy and add a productive veteran presence to the offense. Bills head coach Sean McDermott sees the value in Ivory’s veteran experience and his style of play.

[Mr. WEO]

He'll be running from The Turk

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...speaking of running backs, wonder what ever happened with this Joe Bamyard kid.....did show some promise IMO in limited work....strangely, he was re-signed and cut three times by McD?......shorter employment than Bob from Accountemps......wonder what he did (still unemployed)?...............

[billsredneck1]

On 6/25/2018 at 11:32 AM, White Linen said:

 

This is incorrect and you can say wrong context if you'd prefer.  The Jags starting RB already ran like Ivory so he wasn't a compliment.  They obviously in the top half of the year just used Ivory as a similar back - thunder and thunder, if you will.  It had some success but they later in the year went to T.J. Yeldon, who has the size to be powerfull for sure but is definitely a make you miss RB.  Yeldon is just better than Ivory - so they obviously went with him.  

 

We need Ivory as a change to what Shady does.  It's really that simple.  He's likely not going to get a ton of work but we didn't have a runner like him on the roster and it's a positive signing to fill a roll.

i hope that if we get some tolbertish type performance out of ivory that they use cadet more, with hopefully a gillisleeish type of effect.

[billsredneck1]

On 6/29/2018 at 5:11 PM, Mr. WEO said:

He'll be running from The Turk

he could.....maybe they do end up needing a roster spot and i myself would be fine with cadet and murphy.....nothing against ivory.

[John from Riverside]

Neither Cadet nor Murphy are the banger that Ivory is.....

 

Ivory fits a role on the team because he will get you the first down on 3rd and short when the defense is loaded for bear to stop it.......he also is that power back on goal line to get the touchdown instead of kicking the field goal BECAUSE of his abillity to also catch the ball.

[billsredneck1]

28 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Neither Cadet nor Murphy are the banger that Ivory is.....

 

Ivory fits a role on the team because he will get you the first down on 3rd and short when the defense is loaded for bear to stop it.......he also is that power back on goal line to get the touchdown instead of kicking the field goal BECAUSE of his abillity to also catch the ball.

the bolded was freddie jackson all day. i remember for the longest time he was a sure thing on converting 3rd downs. 3 and 4...just give it to fred.