A Bone-Chilling Draft Review

[Paulus]

5 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Dare I suggest that had it been a glowing review, it would have been cited as a "good article" and no one would be discussing the validity of information found on the internet.

 

 

Youre probably correct, but PFF is not without its flaws, regardless.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

PFF is good for advanced metrics and stats but it’s grades are useless because you can’t accurately grade a player if you don’t know the play call,line call, route combinations, and individual jobs on the play

 

too many variables 

 

Advanced metrics lol. Nothing personal but football isn’t baseball.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Advanced metrics lol. Nothing personal but football isn’t baseball.

There are advanced metrics in football like time in pocket, time to throw. Adjusted yards per attempt, yards before contact etc 

 

most are not tracked by the league but Analytic sites do

Edited May 28, 2018 by Buffalo716

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are advanced metrics in football like time in pocket, time to throw. Adjusted yards per attempt, yards before contact etc 

 

most are not tracked by the league but Analytic sites do

 

And most are imo useless.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

And most are imo useless.

 

I never said they were something amazing. They are mostly useless 

 

i said that tracking those stats are the only thing PFF is good for if you like that stuff 

[FLFan]

I listened to it, and do not see what is "bone chilling" about.  These guys are not credible even a little bit.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I never said they were something amazing. They are mostly useless 

 

i said that tracking those stats are the only thing PFF is good for if you like that stuff 

 

Roger that wing leader 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are advanced metrics in football like time in pocket, time to throw. Adjusted yards per attempt, yards before contact etc 

 

most are not tracked by the league but Analytic sites do

Baseball is very different than football it relies on far more on individual performances. In football players performance rely on other players performance. For example a Quarterback has to rely on his line to give him time to throw and his recievers to get open. Also he relies on the running game to prevent the defense from focusing only on the passing game.

 

In baseball a good hitter gets hits It doesn't matter if the players around them suck they'll still get hits.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Baseball is very different than football it relies on far more on individual performances. In football players performance rely on other players performance. For example a Quarterback has to rely on his line to give him time to throw and his recievers to get open. Also he relies on the running game to prevent the defense from focusing only on the passing game.

 

In baseball a good hitter gets hits It doesn't matter if the players around them suck they'll still get hits.

 

I fully understand that Having grown up on a football field

 

Its the ultimate team game.11 working as 1 working towards a common goal every play. Executing as a whole is key.

 

A perfectly designed Power O off the RT can go for 6 if all work in unison.but if the pulling guard doesn’t stick his man it goes for -1...

 

1 guy not doing his job is the difference between success and failure 

7 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Roger that wing leader 

 

I personally don’t know any coaches or scouts that put weight on PFF

 

its for the armchair GMs and pundits 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

'Bone chilling'?  Hyperbolize much?  Or are you looking for the 'clicks'?

[Orlando Tim]

To compare college quarterbacks using just numbers without having substantial modifications based on talent around them is almost worthless. If he was close to Deshaun Watson in most good throwing stats I am excited because I think Deshaun is a good QB who played with excellent talent around him. Allen played with little better than a dumpster fire. I have high expectations if they give him a chance to adjust to the NFL.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

funny or sad depending on your perspective how these keyboard cowardly uninalists pontificate about their analytical expertise but NONE ever get gainful employment in the NFL..perhaps they're too advanced.........

Edited May 28, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[The Red King]

51 minutes ago, H2o said:

This is a prime example of what I am talking about as well. Does anyone here HONESTLY believe that Tyrod is the #12 QB in the NFL? 

 

NFL QB, or Fantasy Football QB?  As noted earlier by HaplessBillsFan, that site focuses more on FF.  I'm guessing TT's style of play lends itself wonderfully to wracking up FF points, ergo #12 QB.  Likewise, our draft did more to bolster the defense then offense, leaving a ton of questions about taking any Bill in upcoming FF drafts, so I could see how, looking from a more FF mindset that someone could see it as a bad draft.  Me, I still more care about the actual NFL games. ?

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Allen makes NFL throws....not dink and dunk passes that look good in the completion ratings

 

The ironic part being that many offenses operate on dink and dunk passes. We get beat by them every year, and they are a must have skill for an NFL QB.

26 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

To compare college quarterbacks using just numbers without having substantial modifications based on talent around them is almost worthless. If he was close to Deshaun Watson in most good throwing stats I am excited because I think Deshaun is a good QB who played with excellent talent around him. Allen played with little better than a dumpster fire. I have high expectations if they give him a chance to adjust to the NFL.

His junior year had a couple NFL quality players, which is impressive in that conference. His TD, INT, and yards were up quite a bit. It might be a better year to judge from.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Trogdor said:

The ironic part being that many offenses operate on dink and dunk passes. We get beat by them every year, and they are a must have skill for an NFL QB.

Im not disputing that at all but NFL qbs need to have the ability to make the longer throws.

 

It is one of the things I am waiting to see......is Allen one of those that cant complete a 5 yard swing past but can accurately throw a 40 yard bomb?

 

To me one of these passes can be coached a lot better then the other.

[Trogdor]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Im not disputing that at all but NFL qbs need to have the ability to make the longer throws.

 

It is one of the things I am waiting to see......is Allen one of those that cant complete a 5 yard swing past but can accurately throw a 40 yard bomb?

 

To me one of these passes can be coached a lot better then the other.

I'm really hoping that we sign a QB coach or someone who has actually developed QBs. Daboll really doesn't have a record of doing that and I think it's essential to his development. A QB that does both well would be awesome for a change.

[HOUSE]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

No wonder my 2 year old grandson isn't exactly 'keen' on me.  ?

I am willing to bet this will be the best Bills draft EVER.

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...wasn't it PFF who voted Miller as the 2nd most improved in 2016 which many have torched?......are they reliable or does anybody care?.....

I feel like they're reliable at certain positions.

I feel their CB and WR stats usually are pretty on point. Edge rushers too.

I don't feel their QB or RB grades translate well at all. Either way,they aren't the holy Grail , just an analytical way to rate players. Football is wayyyyyy deeper than analytics, but it's still interesting 

 

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said:

I am willing to bet this will be the best Bills draft EVER.

I am really excited about it....and not just our 1st round picks

 

 

[Lfod]

Well I've accepted the Josh Allen pick came with criticism. I was shocked that Beane picked the guy that would come with that baggage. I don't think he made the easy pick but I think in his mind and his reputation on the line he made the right pick. I'm supportive with a lot of understanding that people will question it. 

[HOUSE]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I am really excited about it....and not just our 1st round picks

This is a collection of highly motivated young players. Brandon Beane prefers work ethic over elite skills. I like it so far

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, THE SLAMMER said:

This is a collection of highly motivated young players. Brandon Beane prefers work ethic over elite skills. I like it so far

 

I was really impressed by the make up of last year's team.   It appeared that mistakes were down teamwork up.

 

I think that counts for something you have to have buy in from everybody to make that happen.

 

I still feel like we are some players away....but I feel really good about this team, its selection of players, and the direction they are going.

[HOUSE]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I was really impressed by the make up of last year's team.   It appeared that mistakes were down teamwork up.

 

I think that counts for something you have to have buy in from everybody to make that happen.

 

I still feel like we are some players away....but I feel really good about this team, its selection of players, and the direction they are going.

 

Brandon Beane rarely misses on his later round selections. Some how some way they contribute. The Bills should be in the running for the playoffs again.

The National media is slow to observe how this guy works. He basically drafts farm boys....lol

[napmaster]

2 hours ago, Chemical said:

Allen didn't have a high drop rate compared to other top QBs in this draft

 

Just curious, where are you getting those stats from?  I ask because I've spent time looking for them, but can only seem to find the standard REC, YDS, YDS per REC, AVG, TDs.  I'd appreciate a link or a reference that has stats for targets and drops.

[dezertbill]

IT's all BS until they step onto the field. 

 

They have to talk about something.  Although screwing up team logos gives you an idea of their thoroughness.

[BUFFALOKIE]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I am a French model......

I model French panties.

 

And my sister says I'm a great French kisser 

Edited May 28, 2018 by BUFFALOKIE

[BubbaT]

It really does no good to analyze these players before they step on a field. What kind of instruction are they getting? How do they fit a system that takes advantage of their skill set? Can they be part of a successful program by contributing something? (They all aren't going to be all pros but sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts). Good organizations succeed by teaching, finding pieces that fit together and having the right environment for people to contribute. In the past that hasn't been the case here. I think it is what you need to judge this coach and administration on and the won loss record will reflect whether they are doing it right or not.  The results last year were really encouraging.

Edited May 28, 2018 by BubbaT

[JESSEFEFFER]

The talent level argument is more about how often his teammates are able to win their matchups.  Do they beat coverage, get YAC, hold up in pass protection, sustain blocks and open holes for the running game?  The 2016 offense had five guys  (including Allen) that were 1st or 2nd team ALL MWC and the 2017 offense had none.  The run game suffered so play action was less effective and the protection failed at a high rate where Allen was forced to move from his designed spot more often.  The receivers he had seemed to catch the ball decently but were nothing special after the catch.

 

Less effective run game = less play action success = more 3rd and long situations = more pass protection breakdowns =  less impressive QB stats.   

[baskingridgebillsfan]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

PFF is good for advanced metrics and stats but it’s grades are useless because you can’t accurately grade a player if you don’t know the play call,line call, route combinations, and individual jobs on the play

 

too many variables 

big big thumbs up to this and somebody should tell the boys Wgr who think everything can be broken down by data 

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

I am not an expert, but I have watched every single game Josh Allen played in at Wyoming. I don't understand how anyone can watch his games and and put together a critique like this without the following disclaimer:

 

*** His O-line was an absolutely pathetic, leaking sieve and the guy was running for his life for 2 years.

 

Hopefully we get him better protection than he had at Wyoming.

seems like you might be a bit better informed than most we might pick up of the wire feeds !
Lets hope Bills can take care of the Kid at the NFL playing levels

[fansince88]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I am a French model......

Ohhhh lala

[3rdand12]

38 minutes ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

I model French panties.

 

And my sister says I'm a great French kisser 

your sister is lying. You're terrible.
but you can attract a bee or two in saffron laced bikini cut

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Paulus said:

I remember the great Demitris Bell argument a while back. When they had him ad a leading LT and the Bills' O-line graded very high that year, I grew tired of PFF. They are good for stats, but don't show the entire picture, and it is evident.

 

Yep

 

There are some places where their stats are meaningful, but when they try to put individual grades on positions which are strongly interdependent - such as OL or DL - they become quite tenuous. 

And at other positions, such as QB, I think the way they weight different factors (such as lack of interceptions) is a bit out of keeping with the QB's real impact on the game - for example, while I agree with the principle that turnover differential is a huge correlation to wins, so are successful 4Q drives and 2 minute drills. 

 

But could just be me

[Augie]

9 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

your sister is lying. You're terrible.
but you can attract a bee or two in saffron laced bikini cut

 

Do you know that for sure?

 

Not that there’s anything wrong with that....

 

 

. 

10 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

Ohhhh lala

 

Yeah, I’m all of that! 

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I am a French model......

I have drawn people like you.

[nucci]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I am a French model......

Bon jour

[3rdand12]

50 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yep

 

There are some places where their stats are meaningful, but when they try to put individual grades on positions which are strongly interdependent - such as OL or DL - they become quite tenuous. 

And at other positions, such as QB, I think the way they weight different factors (such as lack of interceptions) is a bit out of keeping with the QB's real impact on the game - for example, while I agree with the principle that turnover differential is a huge correlation to wins, so are successful 4Q drives and 2 minute drills. 

 

But could just be me

it could be just you.. lol

But likely not.
Good numbers need context. they provide numbers. Helpful, not definitive 

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

Bon jour

mon ami ?

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, nucci said:

Bon jour

 

Six years of French and I remember little more than “Voulez vous couchez avec mois?” Or, as our french teacher said was more appropriate, “si on couchez avec mois?” You can tell where my head was.....

[benderbender]

6 hours ago, The Red King said:

Buffalo got a high-pick QB...their most glaring need. 

That seems to be the point of contention. They seem to think that we already had a QB that could get us to the playoffs, a “veteran” backup, and a developmental rookie. It’s as if they found the need to get a QB superfluous. 

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, benderbender said:

That seems to be the point of contention. They seem to think that we already had a QB that could get us to the playoffs, a “veteran” backup, and a developmental rookie. It’s as if they found the need to get a QB superfluous. 

 

Makes sense, I suppose.  But that's why these early draft grades are just as meaningless as pre-season power rankings.  All comes down to guesswork and opinion.  Could get something just as accurate by rolling a Magic 8-Ball over an Ouijii board.