Stadium Construction Facts & Figures

[corta765]

So after yesterday's comments by Kim Pegula I wanted to out line some facts and figures for everyone. This in no way is a prediction of any form minus at the end, its just giving you a lot of information to digest in regards to building a new stadium if it were to happen.

 

New Era (The Ralph)

The Ralph underwent a $130 million dollar renovation in 2013 which is also when the ten year lease was signed. The state invested around $54 million during this renovation with the Bills covering the other half. Additionally the Bills are currently renovating the suites and club areas with their own money which should be completed for this season.

 

Despite the investment in 2013 the Ralph is in need of a major overhaul which has been estimated around $450-540 million dollars. The team knows this, the state knows this, and the NFL of course knows this. As John Warrow from the AP news tweeted yesterday that is where the major decision lies because a new stadium is not that much more money wise, but the major players have to agree in unity in either regard to make it happen.

 

Some of you are probably asking why the Ralph would cost that much after renovations a few years ago. The Ralph by 2023 will be 50 years old (pretty cool) and like any aging structure they need to do massive structural updates so it can last long term. The recent renovations were designed to improve the physical plant and concrete for the short term, but if you want the stadium for another 30 years plus it needs an overhaul physically. Additionally the stadium has an awful electrical layout which is why the Bills have trouble getting night games. It is a complete bear for the TV crews etc.. to set the place up compared to other stadiums. A lot of people bring up Lambeau Field that its perfectly fine but don't realize the Packers and county have spent  over $520 million in renovations since the early 2000's on with $140 million in 2015 to add more expansion to the stadium.

 

Stadium's themselves are now not just about the game but the surrounding experience. Teams are now building stadiums with the intention of keeping fans there all day or evening plus bringing fans there on non game days with shops, restaurants, etc... If you have ever been to Patriot Place in NE it has a mini mall, restaurants, and movie theater which fans can go and watch the game on game day. Now if the Bills stay at the Ralph would they do all of that? Probably not all of it but they certainly would add some of those features so fans who don't tailgate all day or come from out of town. The Atlanta Braves opened a new stadium last year which is being viewed sports wide as the future for stadium building in owners eyes. They have created a massive area like Patriot Place that also includes a hotel, business park, and shops for people. Sports owners are now viewing stadiums as just a piece to a potential goldmine in real estate development.The Pegula's do seem to have a strong handle on what would work in Buffalo and like I said I doubt if a new stadium happened its to that extreme, but that is now the gold standard.

 

Stadium Cost

People understandably have a shuttered reaction when they hear a new stadium because of recent billion dollar projects in Dallas, Minnesota, San Francisco & Atlanta. But the majority of stadiums constructed during the last two decades in the NFL have fallen between $500-750 million dollars. Yes absolutely that is a lot of money but I will cover funding below. The types of stadiums mentioned that the Bills may model after if they build new are indoor stadiums like Detroit $658 million, Indianapolis $792 million (also a convention center though used more regularly) and outdoor stadiums like Pittsburgh $376 million and Seattle $515 million. Additionally Arizona's beautiful stadium actually was $515 million which even I was kinda stunned at given how unique it is and because its already hosted two Super Bowls. The NFL doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl if you build a new stadium, but generally the more expensive the better chance you may get one assuming it has a dome.

 

The Bills Outer Harbor proposal back in 2014 by local leaders was estimated at 1.4 million but that included the stadium, new convention center, hotels, restaurants, and a sports museum plus the infrastructure costs. That fell by the way side once the Pegula's bought the team and guaranteed the teams long term viability here plus it would've been a traffic disaster out there.

 

The three big things that typically effect a stadiums cost are the size, infrastructure, and the type of roof. It makes sense that the bigger the stadium the more expensive because a lot of time these stadiums include restaurants and other shops on premise. Additionally the premium club areas really add to the cost given the amenities they typically have. Cities like Seattle, Pittsburgh, & Detroit do not have nearly the amount of club areas compared to places like San Fran and Minnesota which is why the costs are lower. IF the Pegula's play to the market correctly and focus on the general fan not the premium stuff that would help limit these costs. Additionally recent stadiums in places like NYC, Dallas, & San Francisco are in cities where the cost of construction is higher just in general which inflates the cost. The roof is always a big deal with construction. With no roof it certainly helps to keep the cost lowered because its just less area to need to build with but you limit what you can do year round. I doubt if the Bills decide to build new that they don't have a roof so if that happens it comes down to whether the roof is retractable, whether it just covers like in Detroit, or whether its a natural light gallery such as the Vikings stadium. The cheapest would be doing the Detroit model of just a nice roof with skylights on the sides, but I personally think you'd see something more expensive like the Vikings new glass gallery they constructed.

 

Funding (cue the ominous music)

This is everyone's favorite part to argue and get upset about but I will try to explain this the best I can. Funding for new stadiums differs literally state to state due to the different laws each state has. The Chargers moved from San Diego partially because any tax increase or bond issued for a stadium had to be approved by at least a 66.7% majority in the area. In their case they were going to increase the hotel tax from 12% to 16% and it failed miserably. In New York State though the leadership non surprisingly can more or less agree without public approval to increases. Yankee Stadium & Citi Field were funded by 1.8 billion in state and city money when they were constructed (just an FYI for those opposed to a new stadium because we have to pay well guess what we had to pay for two stadiums none of us use so it sucks in general haha). Depending on the owner/team the type of stadium proposal for the government changes in how it is funded. Some markets will issue low interest bonds which are typically the best way to avoid tax payer issues that are paid back over a 20-25 year period. Other markets like Cleveland added a Sin Tax to things like alcohol and tobacco by a few percentages to help during their Gateway project in the 1990s that funded their stadiums. A lot of times teams want the majority of government help to come for infrastructure surrounding the stadium with roads, highways, parking, etc.. to be improved and covered.

 

The major horror stories in stadium funding come when cities/gov pledge to invest massive amounts of money on tax increases that are not sustainable which in turn force the cities to have to cut services to public entities. The Bengals fleeced Hamilton County by threatening to move in the late 90s which saw the county front the cost of almost the entire stadium. They pay now 10 million a year or 16.4% of their budget for the stadium and in 2011 had to cut a tax rollback due to a budget shortage. Stadium deals in general are never great but having politicians who can skillfully fight is very important so whatever deal comes limits or absolves the tax payer of any cost. The Vikings new stadium was funded with a hospitality tax and a half a percent sales tax increase. It limited the debt on the tax payer but still forced money that could go to the city for other projects to be done for a stadium.

 

A major reason for why more stadiums are constructed now and why the NFL encourages it so heavily is their former G-3 program and current G-4 program. Long story short the G3 program saw the NFL willing to match up to $150 million dollar for dollar in stadium cost to the teams contribution so $300 million from the NFL/Team. The league by 2011 realized it was too much from the league coffers and modified the program with the G-4 program which loans an NFL team up to $200 million for a new stadium and $250 million for stadium renovation. The major sticking point is the project either way has to be a public/private partnership to be eligible. A plus side to this is a team receiving G-4 funds cannot relocate from their city. The project also has to be at least $400 million to receive the top level loan funding which is why many of the stadium costs recently have sky rocketed in construction. There are additional provisions that give better loan credit if there are PSL's but keep in mind comparable markets like Indianapolis & Detroit did not use PSL's for their new stadiums and Pittsburgh & Cleveland had them at about $250-300 on the low end.

 

New Stadium Cost vs New Era Reno Guesstimated Breakdown:

Just a quick tid bit before my cost guess. When the stadium committee released its report on sites and types of stadium designs back in the mid 2010's a key point between indoor stadium vs outdoor stadium was usage. If the stadium was outdoor the usage would be between 20-30 times a year for major events. But if the stadium was indoor it opened the possibility up to more in the 50-60 times a year usage. I believe this will be a major point when the discussion comes in a few years. Anyway here are my soft guesstimates on what the cost breakdown could be for a new stadium vs reno:

 

New Stadium

NFL Loan program: $200 million

Buffalo Bills: $200 million

State: $150 million

Erie County: $100 million (mixture of lease repayment and some small hotel or sales tax increase)

City: $50 million (Bond to be repaid over 25 years)

Total: $700 million

My guesstimate is based on the stadium being downtown next to the Sabres arena where they have a lot of parking, PSE headquarters, Labatt Tasting house, and other new construction being built. I don't believe the Pegula's are a Synder or Brown type that would fleece the region and the expected investment will be more on the roads and highways in the city. Additionally Poloncarz has been pretty strong about protecting the tax payers while working to make the lease fair for all sides so I don't foresee a hit to tax payers.

 

New Era Field (Ralph)

NFL Loan program: $250 million

Buffalo Bills: $125 million

State: $100 million

Erie County: $75 million (mixture of lease repayment and some small hotel or sales tax increase)

Total: $550 million

There will still have to be investment locally on this but it would be less then downtown. I am curious how much Orchard Park may try to pull to keep the team in OP for tax reasons. These figures more or less full in line with what has been projected for the stadium and what has been spent in the past with increase for all sides reasonable to what has previously been spent.

 

Thanks for reading here are some of the articles I referenced from:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/790924/nfl-stadiums-construction-costs-to-build-most-expensive/

http://www.greenberglawoffice.com/nfl-credit-facility-has-made-possible-new-state-of-the-art-stadiums/

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2012/11/15/sports/nfl-personal-seat-licenses-compared

[MarlinTheMagician]

I really don't want a new stadium!  Love The Ralph.  

[SF Bills Fan]

Wow- great analysis. It is interesting when a figure if a billion plus for a new stadium in Buffalo gets used, but I agree with you that it won't be nearly that much unless it's part of a larger complex. I'm not opposed to a full rebuild/rehab of New Era like Arrowhead underwent. 

[Shaw66]

Corta -

 

That's fantastic!    Thanks.   I generally don't read the articles about a new stadium, because I don't know what to believe.   This is a superb summary.

 

One thing I'll add:   I don't think WNY can support a stadium with a lot of club seats and other entertainment areas, like Dallas and Atlanta did.   Beyond not supporting it, I think making the facility the centerpiece detracts from interest in the team.   I went to the Bills game in Atlanta last season, and so many Atlanta fans were in the clubs instead of their seats that for a lot of the time you couldn't tell which team was the home team, because the noise seemed more or less equal.   That's a bad thing.   At New Era, there are no distractions - it's all about football.  

Edited May 24, 2018 by Shaw66

[corta765]

4 minutes ago, SF Bills Fan said:

Wow- great analysis. It is interesting when a figure if a billion plus for a new stadium in Buffalo gets used, but I agree with you that it won't be nearly that much unless it's part of a larger complex. I'm not opposed to a full rebuild/rehab of New Era like Arrowhead underwent. 

 

Thank you. The premium stuff from the clubs, massive skylights, doors opening just to let air in, massive scoreboards, and other things built on property are what really drive the insanity. Those are also done though by cities aiming for a Super Bowl something I don't think we would do.

 

I don't have an opinion currently of new or rehab like Arrowhead until more information is given. I will say after being to enough rain games that the roof doesn't bother me like others. Ironically though I love the snow go figure haha

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Corta -

 

That's fantastic!    Thanks.   I generally don't read the articles about a new stadium, because I don't know what to believe.   This is a superb summary.

 

One thing I'll add:   I don't think WNY can support a stadium with a lot of club seats and other entertainment areas, like Dallas and Atlanta did.   Beyond not supporting it, I think making the facility the centerpiece detracts from interest in the team.   I went to the Bills game in Atlanta last season, and so many Atlanta fans were in the clubs instead of their seats that for a lot of the time you couldn't tell which team was the home team, because the noise seemed more or less equal.   That's a bad thing.   At New Era, there are no distractions - it's all about football.  

 

Thanks really appreciate the kind remarks. I am sure not everything I said is perfect but I think its a decent summary.

 

Yea the club and extra stuff is what the killer is. I think the Bills if they decided to build a new stadium would be smart enough to focus on what works for their fanbase which would help lower the cost. We want a loud raucous environment, if anything a true team museum/interactive experience like Green Bay would be a better thing then club seats. I went to Miami twice now and they actually have a pretty decent stadium that isn't uber club focused which shocked me a bit.

Edited May 24, 2018 by corta765

[Virgil]

That was great.  I usually skim posts that long, but not this one. 

 

I’m torn because I love the Ralph and it’s surrounding neighborhood; that’s what gives it it’s charm to me. 

 

I visit other stadiums all the time and it feel completely different when it’s in a city.  

 

Personally, I would to see them build a new stadium, but right where the Ralph is.  Do what the Yankees did and build it next door. 

 

I don’t want a dime or anything else, just give it all the upgrades it needs and keep it as close to the original as possible.  

[US Egg]

29 minutes ago, SF Bills Fan said:

full rebuild/rehab of New Era like Arrowhead

Part of the problem is New Era stadium is on an island so to say.

 

There's no restaurants, hotels or large bar scene nearby to make it more than a day game event outside of the confines of the parking lot and stadium itself.

 

Suppose that's true of some other stadiums, but that adds a lot.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Ifartalot

[Marv's Neighbor]

Funding------que Amazing grace!

[dollars 2 donuts]

@corta765

 

This...may have been one of the best researched posts I have ever read on TSW.

 

Well done, cheers and thank you for the effort, Sir.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts

[clearwater cadet]

Years ago there was also something about Delaware North getting involved, helping to build the stadium and then running the concessions?  There might even be some type of back door deal,  Pegula agree to build the stadium with little or no public money, NYS  gives them the right's to start fracking.  I don't think anyone really know or would say if they did.

 

New York is the only state with significant shale gas potential to ban fracking, “the most important, and the biggest, energy innovation of this century. I think there a lot more to this then we know.

[ricojes]

So, does this now mean the Pegula's aren't looking to move the team?

 

All kidding aside, that was a great post.  Good job!

[corta765]

18 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said:

Years ago there was also something about Delaware North getting involved, helping to build the stadium and then running the concessions?  There might even be some type of back door deal,  Pegula agree to build the stadium with little or no public money, NYS  gives them the right's to start fracking.  I don't think anyone really know or would say if they did.

 

New York is the only state with significant shale gas potential to ban fracking, “the most important, and the biggest, energy innovation of this century. I think there a lot more to this then we know.

 

Exactly. I have been of the belief a stadium was ready to go so if an owner that wasn't the Pegula's came in Buffalo had a fighting chance to keep the team. That waterfront project was pretty well involved and seemed to have the backing.

I have often thought DN wants a piece of this new stadium and NYS will be working very closely behind the scenes with Pegula. He has been a boon regionally for NYS thanks to his investments downtown and it has helped certain political officials greatly.

Edited May 24, 2018 by corta765

[BillsfanAZ]

I like going back to Buffalo and going to Bills games. The only issue I have with the stadium is how narrow the concourses are. It is a nightmare to navigate the beer line mixing with the bathroom lines. 

[corta765]

2 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I like going back to Buffalo and going to Bills games. The only issue I have with the stadium is how narrow the concourses are. It is a nightmare to navigate the beer line mixing with the bathroom lines. 

 

I think from what I have read a renovation would include much wider concourses.

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I like going back to Buffalo and going to Bills games. The only issue I have with the stadium is how narrow the concourses are. It is a nightmare to navigate the beer line mixing with the bathroom lines. 

It should all be one line.  Get your beer and chug it while you're waiting for the bathroom. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Shaw66

[LabattBlue]

2 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I like going back to Buffalo and going to Bills games. The only issue I have with the stadium is how narrow the concourses are. It is a nightmare to navigate the beer line mixing with the bathroom lines. 

...and that problem isn't getting fixed no matter how much money is spent on renovations at RWS.  If it doesn't help generate revenue, and costs truckloads of money, it's not getting done.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

Thank you. The premium stuff from the clubs, massive skylights, doors opening just to let air in, massive scoreboards, and other things built on property are what really drive the insanity. Those are also done though by cities aiming for a Super Bowl something I don't think we would do.

 

I don't have an opinion currently of new or rehab like Arrowhead until more information is given. I will say after being to enough rain games that the roof doesn't bother me like others. Ironically though I love the snow go figure haha

 

Thanks really appreciate the kind remarks. I am sure not everything I said is perfect but I think its a decent summary.

 

Yea the club and extra stuff is what the killer is. I think the Bills if they decided to build a new stadium would be smart enough to focus on what works for their fanbase which would help lower the cost. We want a loud raucous environment, if anything a true team museum/interactive experience like Green Bay would be a better thing then club seats. I went to Miami twice now and they actually have a pretty decent stadium that isn't uber club focused which shocked me a bit.

Even Green Bay is morr than WNY can support.  They get fans year round at their museum.  That wouldn't happen in Buffalo. 

 

Your post gives me hope that they can find a way to do something reasonable, particularly because serious renovations to New Era would cost nearly as much as a modest new stadium.  

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Even Green Bay is morr than WNY can support.  They get fans year round at their museum.  That wouldn't happen in Buffalo. 

 

Your post gives me hope that they can find a way to do something reasonable, particularly because serious renovations to New Era would cost nearly as much as a modest new stadium.  

They might get more fans at a Bills HoF if the stadium was downtown(attached to the stadium).  Out in OP,  only the biggest diehards are making a special trip to visit it...especially in the dead of winter.

[BillsfanAZ]

5 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

I think from what I have read a renovation would include much wider concourses.

I would be curious as to how they would do that and how long it would take. I think it goes back to the original post that they might as well build new then. 

[corta765]

10 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

They might get more fans at a Bills HoF if the stadium was downtown(attached to the stadium).  Out in OP,  only the biggest diehards are making a special trip to visit it...especially in the dead of winter.

 

That's why I think the new stadium stuff is out now. Everything the Pegula's have is downtown except for their crown jewel the Bills. Its pretty plausible that people would tour the stadium/museum downtown get lunch at 716 or Labatt tasting house and then keep cruising the waterfront for the day.

[dpberr]

The NFL and the NFL owners will continue to apply generous pressure to the Pegulas to build a new stadium, regardless of the facts  and issues efficiently detailed above.  

 

Part of that pressure I'm sure comes from the salary cap mindset of the owners -  "Well I had to invest *my* money into a new stadium, so the rest of your billionaires should have to as well."

 

Question:  Would the stadium of the future have less seats to watch the game live and more restaurants/bars/entertainment infrastructure on "campus" where  watching the game is part of the experience but not the entirety of it?  Instead of watching the game in the stands, you'd have lunch and bar at the on-campus Bills restaurant where you can watch the game *with* Bills greats and even Bills not-so greats for some variety.  ?

 

 

[Haslett_Stomp]

Thanks OP.  I have read articles about stadium costs in the past that have made my eyes glaze over.  Nicely done!

[corta765]

7 minutes ago, dpberr said:

The NFL and the NFL owners will continue to apply generous pressure to the Pegulas to build a new stadium, regardless of the facts  and issues efficiently detailed above.  

 

Part of that pressure I'm sure comes from the salary cap mindset of the owners -  "Well I had to invest *my* money into a new stadium, so the rest of your billionaires should have to as well."

 

Question:  Would the stadium of the future have less seats to watch the game live and more restaurants/bars/entertainment infrastructure on "campus" where  watching the game is part of the experience but not the entirety of it?  Instead of watching the game in the stands, you'd have lunch and bar at the on-campus Bills restaurant where you can watch the game *with* Bills greats and even Bills not-so greats for some variety.  ?

 

 

 

Good points and excellent question. From the major writers and things I've read I would expect Buffalo probably to move down to 68-69k capacity wise. Not a major drop but a little more I would think to help make tickets slightly more competitive to get price wise. I have been of the belief since the Pegula's start buying buildings downtown they are aiming for a downtown move and absolutely believe they would build a Bills campus like you said. Kraft and Pegula talk a bunch and I don't think its any secret he would want something like patriot place downtown. He already has some of the things set like the Labatt tasting house coming plus 716 and harborcenter. Add a few more things when the stadium comes and he is golden.

[BadLandsMeanie]

That was a great article you wrote. Thank you.

 

We can afford a stadium. But if my name was Pegula I wouldn't want to share ownership of it with the state or county.

Because what we can't afford is a giant modern stadium that gets used 10 days a year. We can afford one that gets used a lot just fine.

I could make money on it.

 

Of the 32 teams the Raiders are the only ones who have a clear advantage of location over us , now that they are moving to Vegas.

 

I wish they would let me build the stadium.

 

But since they won't I am just fine with New Era and I like it. Except for more bathrooms and they used bolts that are too long on some of the seats and they poke my knees. I would put in correctly sized shorter bolts, and more bathrooms.

 

 

 

 

 

[MJS]

I think it would be cool to keep New Era Field. Update it like Lambeau Field.

[wagon127]

Thank you, this is such a well constructed post. This is very much believeable, and I cant wait to see what they decide to do in 2022.

[Just Joshin']

Nice write-up - thanks.

 

If you take the emotion out and just look at the financials, a stadium usually does not make economic sense unless in a thriving, metropolitan community.  If it was you money, would you invest in a new stadium?

 

The hatch is you need a stadium or having a team is irrelevant.  I suspect the route will be an extensive refurbishment, not new to minimize the loss.

[row_33]

great work, OP!

 

what's the diff in costs for a project of this magnitude between "right to work" states and New York State?

 

[yungmack]

Really enjoyed your report. Just wondering if you have any insider connections or if this is just from solid research.

[HOUSE]

There are $50,000 worth of empty beer cans after each and every game

 

Pick em up

[corta765]

20 minutes ago, yungmack said:

Really enjoyed your report. Just wondering if you have any insider connections or if this is just from solid research.

 

Just a lot of research. I was always interested in city planning almost did that for my masters degree (did education to help the kids instead, Go kids! haha). Anywho I was always fascinated with the new stadiums from designs, proposals, politics etc.. Once I got a little older and understood the whole nature of the stadium process I just read a lot of articles from various sources local news, deadspin which links pretty well with the issues, major reports, local reporters, etc. When they released the stadium site report I read the whole thing and from there I have just been carefully putting together the pieces the best I can.

 

I thought yesterday was a very interesting demarcation point because it is step 1 in my eyes with the game between the team and government when Kim said they didn't have the money to do the entire project solo. 2019 will be a pivotal year for the whole stadium debate because it takes approximately 3 years to typically build a new stadium meaning by 2020 they need to have things signed and construction started. I expect more will happen over the course of this year.

[beerme1]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 I went to the Bills game in Atlanta last season, and so many Atlanta fans were in the clubs instead of their seats that for a lot of the time you couldn't tell which team was the home team, because the noise seemed more or less equal.   That's a bad thing.   At New Era, there are no distractions - it's all about football.  

 

 

I would disagree with you a little bit on this. Our three club sections are quite busy inside with fans choosing to sit inside and watch our game and all the others on tv for long stretches during the games. So we do it to but we don't have the quality of clubs that an Atlanta has in their new digs. Drives me nuts that folks spend so much time in the club rather than their seat actually lol.

 

Corta, your post was an outstanding one. Great job! Thank you

Edited May 24, 2018 by beerme1

[corta765]

36 minutes ago, row_33 said:

great work, OP!

 

what's the diff in costs for a project of this magnitude between "right to work" states and New York State?

 

 

Great question and I honestly couldn't provide the answer to this without researching it.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

Good post! A couple things should be noted (I've done a lot of homework in the past regarding the subject and G-4 program).

 

Using the Lions and Colts stadium models should be used as a basis for design only. The cost for a new stadium for the Bills (if it were the exact replica of one of those buildings; obviously, it won't be) would be different for a couple key reasons.

 

Infrastructure cost is based on the site. The changes that would be necessary for a stadium in downtown Buffalo would be different than it was for those projects, which would have a significant impact on the total cost for the Bills project. What's unknown is whether it would require more or less work than those projects required.

 

Also, inflation. Lucas Oil was $720 mil, but that was 10 years ago. If built exactly the same today, that project would cost more than $800 mil, more than 10% more expensive due to inflation.

 

(IRG to your renovation guess figures) One of the provisions in the G-4 program requires the team to match the league contribution. If the league grants $250 mil for a renovation, the Bills cannot contribute $125 mil, it has to be equal.

 

Also, another provision in the program relates to the total league revenue. It states that up to $200 mil for new stadium/$250 mil for renovations, but there's also a limit of 1.5% of total league revenue in a given year. In 2016, that figure was over $13 bil, and it's estimated that it was over $14 bil last year. At $14 bil even, the max contribution from the league would be $210 mil, and that would be for all projects, not each individual project. (The good thing is that the Bills are at the top of the list when it comes to potential stadium projects in the immediate future, but some teams may want to do some minor upgrades over the next couple of years, and that could dig into the allowed contribution a bit. Grants are reviewed and awarded case-by-case, and with the owners being so adamant about the Bills becoming bigger contributors to the total league revenue, I would think that the Bills are given some leway there, and other teams' potential upgrades would be put off to allow more funds to the Bills project.).

 

Part of the revenue increase is due to the opening of stadiums in Atlanta and Minnesota, and stadiums opening in Las Vegas and Los Angeles are on the horizon (scheduled for 2020 season). In order to be granted the full $250 mil for a renovation, league revenue would have to be roughly $16.7 bil. With the most expensive PSLs for the Rams estimated to be between $175,000 and $225,000, total league revenue in 2020 could be more than $16 bil. 

 

Also worth noting is that the current CBA expires after the 2020 season, and there's no guarantee that the G-4 program will continue under the new agreement. Then again, it was revised from the G-3 of the previous CBA, so it's just as possible that the league revises the G-4, and that league contribution could increase with the new CBA. Perhaps the loomig expiration of the CBA, and uncertainty of the new CBA, has something to do with why the stadium talk from Goodell and the league began a few years ago in the first place???

Edited May 25, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[Big Turk]

People are already there all day and sometimes the day before and the day before that tailgating...

 

Maybe building other stuff to do is whats needed at other places but that most assuredly is not needed here.

Edited May 25, 2018 by matter2003

[Fadingpain]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

I think it would be cool to keep New Era Field. Update it like Lambeau Field.

An updated Rich Stadium for nearly the cost of a new one would be asinine.

 

First and foremost b/c a new stadium would allow a change of location.

 

It should be in downtown Buffalo, and not where it is now.

 

 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

5 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

An updated Rich Stadium for nearly the cost of a new one would be asinine.

 

First and foremost b/c a new stadium would allow a change of location.

 

It should be in downtown Buffalo, and not where it is now.

 

 

 

A new stadium in downtown Buffalo would cost far more than a total renovation of New Era...roughly double. And it could be more, depending on what accommodations are built around the stadium.

 

I'm sure that a downtown stadium is the ideal plan for the Pegulas, but that may not be feasible financially. A renovation is feasible, although probably not their first choice.

 

That, and just how much the Pegulas are willing to pitch in are the main issues here. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[Rochesterfan]

Nice write up - the one thing missing in it is the new gambling regulations.

 

I think if NYS allows some form of gambling and casino activity - that plays a big part in a downtown decision.  I think that makes it much more likely they build a stadium with additional features downtown and attach restaurants, casino, convention center, and hotels to the property.

 

There is already a casino down there, but being able to build and draw downtown makes so much sense and if the city, state, and county can get funds from whatever gambling they add - that makes more likely to get done.  Especially if they add a small sin tax - to alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, and eventually leagalized marijuana.

 

The state has some new options coming up to get additional revenue it just depends upon how quickly the jump on board.

 

Overall - I really do not think there is any true decision to be made - a new stadium makes to much sense over renovation and a downtown location with all that is going on drives everything.  It will be a major change to tailgating, but offers a lot of attractive pluses for people both in and out of the area.

[mrags]

I believe you did very wel with this post OP. But I think you left out some things and are lowballing the costs a little bit. Clearwater Cadet has a very good point about fracking and I believe that may come into play. 

 

It will/May be a multi point deal to get this done and fracking may be the key. 

 

Without doing a ton of research like you have:

a new stadium will likely be near the $1B range. Give or take about $200m. The Pegulas will end up fronting almost the entirety of the bill for the stadium. In return they will receive all of the benefits and profits from the newly built Pegulaville located where Buffalo used to be. Also in return, they will receive some benefits of fracking in the state of New York.

But most importantly, for them, and more so for the city and surrounding areas of Pegulaville, they will benefit from the city, county, and state, funding a massive overhaul of the infrastructure of the city of Pegulaville. The skyway will be the first to go. Highways and road repair, additional ways in, out, and around the city. Including a subway system that has more than 7 stops in a straight line down the center of town. Add in locations/hubs at UB North Campus, the 90/290 split at the tolls/Park N Ride, Galleria Mall/Millenium Hotel, Boulevard Mall area/290 NFB, OP, Peace Bridge, Tonawandas/riverfront, possibly Grand Island, and finally Niagara Falls.

 

The project will cost upwards of $1B overtime. But if you want to get treated like a big city, you act like one. 

 

Also, I have a friend that works for a rather large construction company that builds  hospitals, schools, and stadiums among other things, that has already been in talk with the Pegulas and the city of Buffalo and have been positioning themselves with another local construction company to earn the business once it becomes available. 

[BigDingus]

As much as I wish the Bills would have a new stadium built to play in, I know it's not feasible. 

Buffalo just doesn't have the population or they high-end demographic that could really justify the expense, and using tax payer money is always a raw deal for the locals.

If the population of the metro area consisted of more wealthy people, with a large upper middle-class and higher, it would probably be ok even if the population was small. But since the average income is so low, and there isn't a high demand for luxury suites or corporations to shell out a lot of money for large groups of season tickets, a new stadium would probably not attract the amount of money needed to make the investment worth it.

And unless there's a roof tacked on, the stadium still won't be full during the winter just like every other year (people tend to believe that we always sell out regardless of weather, or if we have a winning team, but even during the Kelly era, plenty of seats remained empty at that time). 

I think the best bet would be going for a cheaper, smaller, better quality venue like Pittsburgh. Even adjusted for inflation, the Heinz Field costed only $529 million to build. Or we could attempt something like the Cardinals, which built their stadium for $661 million (adjusted for inflation). Either way, just due to being in NY, the costs will be higher, but there's no reason the stadium has to hit $1 billion or get anywhere close to that.