Josh Allen. Let's get real people!

[billsfan_34]

 Can we have fake people? 

[Returntoglory]

19 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

 Can we have fake people? 

You can , as long as you can live with yourself

 

[KW95 - JA17]

8 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

What's a prototypical QB? 

 

That guy that won the Super Bowl MVP and is a back up.  I forgot his name.

[Bing Bong]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

For about 20 years in Buffalo that would be a guy nobody else was really interested in picking as high as the Bills did or some backup that was supposed to be a hidden diamond in the rough.  

It's the opposite of Russell Wilson amiright

8 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

What's a prototypical QB? 

A meaningless term probably describing a tall QB with a big arm that doesn't run. Basically the opposite of Russell Wilson ?

[ExWNYer]

31 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

 Can we have fake people? 

 

It didn't work in the past...

[jimmy10]

8 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

What's a prototypical QB? 

 

Sixth-round backups from Michigan. Duh. 

[Go-Bills]

If the O-line can protect Allen play him! let him get the experience he needs this year and improve threw the draft next year and spend, spend, spend on free agency...

[Fadingpain]

I am all in favor of getting real people.

 

It's just Allen that concerns me.  Not sure his game translates to success at the NFL level, but we'll see!

 

 

[Wily Dog]

9 hours ago, OJABBA said:

 

Thanks for keeping it real, man. I'm very concerned about it. Instead of getting excited about finally having a great prospect in a Bills uniform after 30 years, I think it's a perfect time to piss all over that, and worry about the Wide Receiver situation. 

 

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are plenty of serious threads in which to discuss Josh Allen. This is not one. 

A topic about Josh Allen is not a topic about Wide Receivers. I know from previous posts that you were not high on Allen. I was. We will wait for 2- 3 years to find out . So , for now,  let your bias against him cool. 

[SoTier]

21 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

We have the prototypical QB that we have been begging for since the retirement of Jim Kelly! HUGE arm, BIG body, and INTELLIGENT! Give this kid some Solid mentoring and a little time and we won't regret this pick.  Now get behind our young QB and show him the support that BILLS fans are famous for! 

 

Aside from Allen being taken in the top ten, how is he different from JP Losman and EJ Manuel? All three were/are "projects" with lots of raw talent that the Bills gambled on.  Almost all QBs taken in the first round who are considered "projects" like Losman and Manuel have failed.   Maybe Allen will be different, but don't bet more than you can afford to lose because the odds are stacked against him.  That's what's "real", dude.

Edited May 19, 2018 by SoTier

[BuffaloBillyG]

13 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

What's a prototypical QB? 

It's an old Buffalo myth. Much like "comp picks". 

[Rocky Landing]

I don't respond well when someone refers to me as "people."

[Putin]

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I am all in favor of getting real people.

 

It's just Allen that concerns me.  Not sure his game translates to success at the NFL level, but we'll see!

 

 

You mean like the gimmicky offense that was  Allen run in Wyoming compared to the pro style ( NFL ready day 1 ) offense of  Mayfield & Rosen ? 

 

[Returntoglory]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Aside from Allen being taken in the top ten, how is he different from JP Losman and EJ Manuel? All three were/are "projects" with lots of raw talent that the Bills gambled on.  Almost all QBs taken in the first round who are considered "projects" like Losman and Manuel have failed.   Maybe Allen will be different, but don't bet more than you can afford to lose because the odds are stacked against him.  That's what's "real", dude.

Losman was the product of the Bills having to first round picks ( Sound familiar?) and by the time Buffalo got to their 2nd pick(22nd) all the QB gold had been mined. Manning, Rivers and Big Ben we're long gone. Losman was  a true project pick by everyones oppinion. The Bills had that extra pick so what the hell.  

 

The 2013 NFL draft will go down as the worst ever for QB's. EJ was the first QB selected and it was at #16! He was a wasted first round pick and that and that alone should have gotten our GM fired!

 

Josh Allen was a consensus top 5 pick, often compared to big Ben.From a leading scout "Allen has amazing physical tools that is close to the prototype of how any evaluator would draw up their ideal quarterback. He has a powerful right arm that can get the ball to any spot on the field. His cannon is able to push the ball vertically and stretch defenses downfield. In tight windows, Allen can fire a fastball that explodes out of his hand and cuts through a defense. He has a quick release and throws a tight spiral. His arm talent is legit. "

 

I get it. There are questions and concerns. Should Rosen also be under the microscope due to his draft position ?

 

This kids arm is going to convince many of you. Now let's get him some receivers! 

 

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

I don't respond well when someone refers to me as "people."

Then obviously I wasn't referring to you

[Elite Poster]

15 hours ago, OJABBA said:

 

I agree, he is a great prospect. I'm very excited.

 

As far as the critics are concerned, people on message boards  LOVE to be right. They love to be able to say "see, I told you so. My football knowledge is better than yours. I knew the front office is incompetent."....I know I do!

And the odds are way better that just about any QB that is drafted isn't going to be become a star, so they play the odds. "Oh, my veteran eye had this guy pegged. Knew it the day they drafted him. Maybe you'll learn someday..."

 

Allen is easily the best prospect the team has had since Kelly.

 

 

 

I agree with everything you said and the fact that he is the best prospect we have had since Kelly is incredibly, utterly, and astoundingly sad. Decades.

2 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

Losman was the product of the Bills having to first round picks ( Sound familiar?) and by the time Buffalo got to their 2nd pick(22nd) all the QB gold had been mined. Manning, Rivers and Big Ben we're long gone. Losman was  a true project pick by everyones oppinion. The Bills had that extra pick so what the hell.  

 

The 2013 NFL draft will go down as the worst ever for QB's. EJ was the first QB selected and it was at #16! He was a wasted first round pick and that and that alone should have gotten our GM fired!

 

Josh Allen was a consensus top 5 pick, often compared to big Ben.From a leading scout "Allen has amazing physical tools that is close to the prototype of how any evaluator would draw up their ideal quarterback. He has a powerful right arm that can get the ball to any spot on the field. His cannon is able to push the ball vertically and stretch defenses downfield. In tight windows, Allen can fire a fastball that explodes out of his hand and cuts through a defense. He has a quick release and throws a tight spiral. His arm talent is legit. "

 

I get it. There are questions and concerns. Should Rosen also be under the microscope due to his draft position ?

 

This kids arm is going to convince many of you. Now let's get him some receivers! 

 

Then obviously I wasn't referring to you

 

The problem is once you get passed the arm strength and him being a giant, there are a lot of question marks. I don't think you should get so mad when people are skeptical. It truly goes both ways. 

[2ForMacAdoo]

Truth police: This is historically incorrect. The Bills did NOT have an extra 1st round pick that year but rather gave up their 1st round pick the following year to obtain the rights to #22. overall which they then used (wasted) on JP Losman. 

[Returntoglory]

6 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

I agree with everything you said and the fact that he is the best prospect we have had since Kelly is incredibly, utterly, and astoundingly sad. Decades.

 

The problem is once you get passed the arm strength and him being a giant, there are a lot of question marks. I don't think you should get so mad when people are skeptical. It truly goes both ways. 

Mad? I'm fine. 

3 minutes ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

Truth police: This is historically incorrect. The Bills did NOT have an extra 1st round pick that year but rather gave up their 1st round pick the following year to obtain the rights to #22. overall which they then used (wasted) on JP Losman. 

Did they not have two picks in the 2004 draft?

[LikeIGiveADarn]

2 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

Mad? I'm fine. 

Did they not have two picks in the 2004 draft?

 

They traded their 2015 1st to get Losman, then they took Roscoe Parrish in the second in 2005, and missed out on Aaron Rodgers...

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

Mad? I'm fine. 

Did they not have two picks in the 2004 draft?

 

Traded 2004 second round pick (#43-Julius Jones), 2004 fifth round pick (#144-Sean Ryan), 2005 first round pick (#20-Marcus Spears) to Cowboys for 2004 first round pick (#22-J.P. Losman) on 2004-04-24

[Returntoglory]

2 minutes ago, LikeIGiveADarn said:

 

They traded their 2015 1st to get Losman, then they took Roscoe Parrish in the second in 2005, and missed out on Aaron Rodgers...

Thanks for the clarification. My point, albeit not concise, is that we went for a QB that by all accounts was a definite project. A true head scratcher even more so seeing that we did the deal with Dallas to obtain what??

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Traded 2004 second round pick (#43-Julius Jones), 2004 fifth round pick (#144-Sean Ryan), 2005 first round pick (#20-Marcus Spears) to Cowboys for 2004 first round pick (#22-J.P. Losman) on 2004-04-24

Thanks. Please see above. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Returntoglory said:

Thanks for the clarification. My point, albeit not concise, is that we went for a QB that by all accounts was a definite project. A true head scratcher even more so seeing that we did the deal with Dallas to obtain what??

Thanks. Please see above. 

 

You're welcome.  I get all my transaction data from this site, it's great.

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/

[LikeIGiveADarn]

8 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

Thanks for the clarification. My point, albeit not concise, is that we went for a QB that by all accounts was a definite project. A true head scratcher even more so seeing that we did the deal with Dallas to obtain what??

Thanks. Please see above.  

 

Josh Allen is ten times the player JP Losman was coming out. JP Losman had a strong arm, ok size, and good athleticism, Allen has an ELITE arm, ELITE size. and good athleticism.

[Returntoglory]

Just now, LikeIGiveADarn said:

 

Josh Allen is ten times the player JP Losman was coming out. JP Losman had a strong arm, ok size, and good athleticism, Allen has an ELITE arm, ELITE size. and good athleticism.

Exactly! The kids arm is what's blowing minds. 80 yards in the air with a tight spiral. Are you freaking kidding me??

[HOUSE]

Do we have enough cap space for fake people?

 

 

[LikeIGiveADarn]

5 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

Exactly! The kids arm is what's blowing minds. 80 yards in the air with a tight spiral. Are you freaking kidding me??

 

Not only that, but his upper body mechanics are nearly flawless. Very little wasted motion and energy, release times near Brady and Rodgers.

[Returntoglory]

5 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said:

Do we have enough cap space for fake people?

 

 

Another stellar contribution!

1 minute ago, LikeIGiveADarn said:

 

Not only that, but his upper body mechanics are nearly flawless. Very little wasted motion and energy, release times near Brady and Rodgers.

Yep. Lots of upside here. I've been following the Bills since the early 70's and I am truly excited to see how he develops.

[Prickly Pete]

JP Losman and EJM weren't as highly regarded as Allen. That's a message board myth. There weren't any teams even blowing smoke that JP should be the 1st QB off the board, and EJM was just kinda chosen by default because there weren't many highly rated QB's that draft. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by OJABBA

[LikeIGiveADarn]

21 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

JP Losman and EJM weren't as highly regarded as Allen. That's a message board myth. There were any teams even blowing smoke that JP should be the 1st QB off the board, and EJM was just kinda chosen by default because there weren't many highly rated QB's that draft. 

 

Exactly. JP was always "The best of the next group of QBs", and the 2013 draft was a HISTORICALLY bad draft overall, not just for QBs.

[BigDingus]

On 5/18/2018 at 7:10 PM, Returntoglory said:

We have the prototypical QB that we have been begging for since the retirement of Jim Kelly! HUGE arm, BIG body, and INTELLIGENT! Give this kid some Solid mentoring and a little time and we won't regret this pick.  Now get behind our young QB and show him the support that BILLS fans are famous for! 

 

I think all fans "support" him and WANT him to do well, the only problem is he's shown the least out of all the 1st round QB's and against the worst competition.

He's got the most red flags & questions marks, and it's very, VERY hard to picture the Bills being an organization capable enough to turn him into a franchise QB.

With our history of developing QB's, and a lack of veteran QB's on the roster for him to learn from & sit behind, it's an almost monumental task ahead of them to get this right.

But I'll be there supporting him, cheering him on, and believing in him all the way. It's just a huge risk they took, and it has people nervous.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Wily Dog said:

 

A topic about Josh Allen is not a topic about Wide Receivers. I know from previous posts that you were not high on Allen. I was. We will wait for 2- 3 years to find out . So , for now,  let your bias against him cool. 

 

And did we need 17 new topics on Josh Allen telling people to "get real"? No. We didn't, so you will excuse my joke. I have said nothing in this thread about Josh Allen's game. I am not talking about it precisely because it will take us 2 or 3 years to find out. I have said all that I needed to say about my opinion on him pre-draft. 

 

My only bias here is against needless threads cluttering up the board and adding zero to the discussion. Want to give your view on Josh Allen? Not a problem. There are 3 or 4 threads already open on the fromt page of the forum in which to do so. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/19/2018 at 4:09 AM, GunnerBill said:

Can any of these real people we are getting play wide receiver? 

 

Good question.

 

So here's some film of Josh Allen's pro day.  His training facility, indoors, his WR.  3 of the first 4 throws on the film overshoot the WR.

As the 3rd overthrow falls just beyond the WR outstretched fingertips, the announcer is saying "you can't make a better throw, you can't make a better throw than that".

 

Are these WR problems, where a better/faster WR would have been able to get there?  Or QB problems, where he needed to bounce a bit after his drop so the WR had more time to run the route? 

 

Or both? 

 

Or can't tell?

 

Intrinsically, I'm not too thrilled by an 80 yd throw that the WR can't get to, though I do understand they're trying to highlight what his arm can do and that might go beyond the speed of his current WR

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

51 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good question.

 

So here's some film of Josh Allen's pro day.  His training facility, indoors, his WR.  3 of the first 4 throws on the film overshoot the WR.

As the 3rd overthrow falls just beyond the WR outstretched fingertips, the announcer is saying "you can't make a better throw, you can't make a better throw than that".

 

Are these WR problems, where a better/faster WR would have been able to get there?  Or QB problems, where he needed to bounce a bit after his drop so the WR had more time to run the route? 

 

Or both? 

 

Or can't tell?

 

Intrinsically, I'm not too thrilled by an 80 yd throw that the WR can't get to, though I do understand they're trying to highlight what his arm can do and that might go beyond the speed of his current WR

 

 

They are asked to throw it as far down field as they can, The accuracy shows in the mid range passes

[CSBill]

On 5/19/2018 at 3:45 AM, Doc Brown said:

Heard the same about EJ.  I'm rooting for the kid (obviously), but I still would have preferred Rosen.

 

Is this Doug Marrone stopping by TBD? "Obviously" it must be.

Edited May 20, 2018 by CSBill

[MtlBillsFan]

Yes another Josh Allen article! We all need our fix in this off season black hole.

 

https://www.cover1.net/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-nfl-draft-history/

[B Fan in LA]

 

This is great, but I recall reading about how EJ Manual would lie in bed at night, flipping the ball to himself.

That didn't translate into being able to read defenses quickly, make the right decision, and then put the ball

out in front of the receiver so he can catch it on the dead run. Let's hope Allen or McCarron can do that.

 

[ddaryl]

I need nay hope. I need to see results. 

 

But im feel good. Like i got a Phd in feel Good

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Just now, ddaryl said:

I need nay hope. I need to see results. 

 

But im feel good. Like i got a Phd in feel Good

That and $1 will get you a cup of lousy coffee from Tim Hortons.

[Ittakestime]

8 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

That and $1 will get you a cup of lousy coffee from Tim Hortons.

 

Crazy to me this is how Tim hortons is viewed now. The chain has gone to complete crap and you are not the only one to notice. I remember when they first came around they were viewed as a great establishment. 

[billspro]

16 hours ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

Truth police: This is historically incorrect. The Bills did NOT have an extra 1st round pick that year but rather gave up their 1st round pick the following year to obtain the rights to #22. overall which they then used (wasted) on JP Losman. 

 

And with that pick we could have taken Aaron Rodgers

16 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Traded 2004 second round pick (#43-Julius Jones), 2004 fifth round pick (#144-Sean Ryan), 2005 first round pick (#20-Marcus Spears) to Cowboys for 2004 first round pick (#22-J.P. Losman) on 2004-04-24

 

Also shows that the second round picks we traded to get Allen will probably end up being no-names. Small price to pay for a legit QB prospect.

 

Im also glad we didn’t trade next years first. That can get you in trouble. It would have been nice to draft Rodgers in 2005.

15 hours ago, OJABBA said:

JP Losman and EJM weren't as highly regarded as Allen. That's a message board myth. There weren't any teams even blowing smoke that JP should be the 1st QB off the board, and EJM was just kinda chosen by default because there weren't many highly rated QB's that draft. 

 

2013 was just a horrible draft class in general. GMs were having to create prospects at all positions. I’m glad the Bills took a shot at a QB and I’m glad they didn’t take Geno. EJ at least had the leadership qualities needed at the position. He will probably end up being a solid backup QB. I honestly think EJ would have been the 9th or 10th QB prospect if he was in this years draft. This was a really deep QB draft this year.

[TFBillsfan]

I’m all in on Allen. However as a fan, I think it’s important to set realistic expectations this year. The offense will be a major work in progress this year with significant question marks at OL and WR. If Shady is injured for any significant length of time this year, we could rank near the bottom of NFL offensive statistics. Personally, I’m in no rush to put Allen out on the field anytime soon this year unless he’s just lighting it up in camp and preseason. Let him learn, work on tightening his mechanics and watch plenty of film.

 

Next year, you can address the OL, WR and RB depth with the draft and FA. If all goes well, you are setup for LONG TERM success in year three under McDermott and certainly a changing of the guard in the AFC East.