Sky Diver Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) Here are QB ball velocity numbers from 2008 - 2017. http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ EJ Manual, who was generally recognized as having a big arm, threw 54 mph at the combine. AJ McCarron threw 53 mph. Arm strength is not as issue for AJ. Edited May 9, 2018 by Sky Diver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Being an NFL level starting QB is currently his issue. 2 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 While it's not a cannon, it's certainly not inadequate. Still crazy though that Allen's was 62 and set the all time record since the metric started being measured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 my man Logan Thomas hit 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 My mental image of McCarron is one of a well-coached, dedicated all around athlete who achieves very well if he's in the right college environment. The right environment is where there's good talent on the team and good coaching, where the QB is expected to execute the plays but not be a playmaker. Frankly, that's what I think Dalton looks like. In that sense, he's good for McDermott, for whom ideal player is one who does his job as well as he can every play. I think Dalton will be solid starter for the Bills, until Allen takes over. When will Allen take over? When he can execute the offense nearly as well as McCarron can. Why will he take over? Because the quality of his arm and his physical talents generally will allow Allen to be a playmaker as well as a field general. So when Allen's field generalship approaches McCarron's, in 2018 or 2019, Allen's athletic superiority will be enough to get him on the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Okay... it's still not a 62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Okay... it's still not a 62 Allen is off the charts. I never heard anyone question EJ’s atm strength, so it’s odd that it has come up with McCarron. If can get some protection, I think he will be fine until Allen is ready to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Sky Diver said: Here are QB ball velocity numbers from 2008 - 2017. http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ EJ Manual, who was generally recognized as having a big arm, threw 54 mph at the combine. AJ McCarron threw 53 mph. Arm strength is not as issue for AJ. AJ is below the mythical 55 threshold. But I get what you're saying. He's not noodle armed. Considering where we've been, I'm generally happy with the Bills QB situation. We've got AJ who by all accounts is hard worker, fierce competitor and good leader. While he might not have the best arm out there, he can be a good caretaker and mentor to Allen. Allen is a guy with some good character traits and tremendous upside. Who knows how it will all work out but Beane's done good work in his first year to put us in a situation that provides some hope and a reasonable chance of success. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 His hands are to small and his feet to big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Allen is off the charts. I never heard anyone question EJ’s atm strength, so it’s odd that it has come up with McCarron. If can get some protection, I think he will be fine until Allen is ready to play. And Peterman threw 53. Are we questioning his arm strength? I see a tight race between AJ and Nate, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, LeGOATski said: And Peterman threw 53. Are we questioning his arm strength? I see a tight race between AJ and Nate, honestly. According to the link that the O.P. posted, Peterman threw 49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, HOUSE said: His hands are to small and his feet to big Your to's are too small. 5 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: And Peterman threw 53. Are we questioning his arm strength? I see a tight race between AJ and Nate, honestly. 1 minute ago, Luxy312 said: According to the link that the O.P. posted, Peterman threw 49. Regardless of the actual number rewatch the pick at the end of the Jacksonville playoff game and ask yourself if you don’t have concerns about his arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: My mental image of McCarron is one of a well-coached, dedicated all around athlete who achieves very well if he's in the right college environment. The right environment is where there's good talent on the team and good coaching, where the QB is expected to execute the plays but not be a playmaker. Frankly, that's what I think Dalton looks like. In that sense, he's good for McDermott, for whom ideal player is one who does his job as well as he can every play. I think Dalton will be solid starter for the Bills, until Allen takes over. When will Allen take over? When he can execute the offense nearly as well as McCarron can. Why will he take over? Because the quality of his arm and his physical talents generally will allow Allen to be a playmaker as well as a field general. So when Allen's field generalship approaches McCarron's, in 2018 or 2019, Allen's athletic superiority will be enough to get him on the field. When did we make that trade? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: According to the link that the O.P. posted, Peterman threw 49. https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/nathan-peterman/ Maybe he threw harder at his pro day. This begs the question, though: why should we care? It's all in the game tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, transient said: Regardless of the actual number rewatch the pick at the end of the Jacksonville playoff game and ask yourself if you don’t have concerns about his arm strength. I'm not saying I don't have concerns about Peterman at all. I had concerns about Peterman's arm strength when they drafted him. One of the single biggest knocks on him in scouting reports was his ability to really throw the football when he needed to. From their respective college game tape, I would still take McCarron over Peterman. He just looks better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Ramza86 said: Being an NFL level starting QB is currently his issue. It is more of a unknown then a issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, transient said: Regardless of the actual number rewatch the pick at the end of the Jacksonville playoff game and ask yourself if you don’t have concerns about his arm strength. Yeah. We should definitely question it. Just like we should question AJ's. Neither are very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Well I've heard around that we got AJ for peanuts. So if he's not a fit it wasn't a costly experiment. I'm a little skeptical about how it will turn out although I do believe he earns the starting job. I'm in wait and see mode but kinda expecting the horse will trip out of the starting gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, HOUSE said: His hands are to small and his feet to big Ì don't know much about dancin', that's why I got this song One of my legs is shorter than the other and both my feet's too long 'Course now right along with 'em, I got no natural rhythm But I go dancin' every night, hopin' one day I might get it right 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Peterman worked in the offseason to strengthen his arm and so the velocity of his throws has increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBills88 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 He measured better than Tyrod Taylor & DeShaun Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I'm not worried about AJ at all. He's a seat warmer who I believe can be a competent starter and win a couple games for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Luxy312 said: While it's not a cannon, it's certainly not inadequate. Still crazy though that Allen's was 62 and set the all time record since the metric started being measured. Its barely adequate and certainly compares poorly with guys like Goff (58), Wentz (57), Cousins (59) and Foles (57). I'm not sure velocity means much other than the ability to make some very difficult throws. I know I would prefer "strong" over "adequate" any day. On the other hand, I am sure that McCarron's game isn't built on shooting lasers through the eye of a needle 40 yards downfield and hopefully, his many other talents will more than make up for arm strength that is a bit on the average side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) I can't wait for the "I don't get all the hype on Allen- they said the same things about EJ Manuel" crowd to realize how utterly absurd they sound once people see him throw footballs up close in training camp. Edited May 10, 2018 by metzelaars_lives 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mickey said: Its barely adequate and certainly compares poorly with guys like Goff (58), Wentz (57), Cousins (59) and Foles (57). I'm not sure velocity means much other than the ability to make some very difficult throws. I know I would prefer "strong" over "adequate" any day. On the other hand, I am sure that McCarron's game isn't built on shooting lasers through the eye of a needle 40 yards downfield and hopefully, his many other talents will more than make up for arm strength that is a bit on the average side. Why don't you just go ahead and list some of the other starters in the NFL while you're at it? Trubisky (51), Watson (45), Prescott (54). It's a nice cherry pick, but I would bet you that there isn't a single Bills fan that wouldn't take the latter of those two. Trubisky is a TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 53 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Allen is off the charts. I never heard anyone question EJ’s atm strength, so it’s odd that it has come up with McCarron. If can get some protection, I think he will be fine until Allen is ready to play. EJ's atm strength is among the best in history. 8 different bankcards used simultaneously to withdraw the maximum daily limit is off the charts atm strength. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Arm strength is old news. Now a days it’s all about arm arrogance 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 You guys are crazy. I saw Allen at an amusement park at one of those speed throwing games. He needed to throw at least 45 to win a big prize, but he couldn't get the ball over 40. Strange thing cause, he threw the last of 3 backwards over his shoulder off 1 knee and still hit 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Sky Diver said: Allen is off the charts. I never heard anyone question EJ’s atm strength, so it’s odd that it has come up with McCarron. If can get some protection, I think he will be fine until Allen is ready to play. I recall fans questioning EJ's arm strength after watching him play for the Bills -- as in, "I thought this guy was supposed to have a strong arm?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) Looking at college tape, AJ is a very steady and calm QB who has enough arm strength in the NFL to be a good starting game manager. Surround him with a good team and he can take you to the playoffs. Makes great intermediate throws in tight spots, can move around the pocket, and is pretty decisive. His ceiling is higher than Andy Dalton in my opinion. Does not use his feet as much though. Peterman is undersized and jittery. Does not have good arm strength but his release is very fast and he has great zip and accuracy on his balls. I see what McDermott sees in him, but I don't believe he can be a good starter in this league. I think his ceiling is smart and surprisingly good backup QB. He will be a backup on this team as long as McDermott is here. Can surprise you with some 300 yard games. AJ is going to win the job this offseason. Would be very surprised if he doesn't. Should get us anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 depending on how everyone else plays. Next year we can start talking about AJ vs. Allen. Allen's ceiling is top 3-5 superstar QB, in case anybody was wondering. Allen can probably start this year, but AJ is too steady a QB in general to take that risk. No need to rush things. Edited May 9, 2018 by musichunch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, musichunch said: Looking at college tape, AJ is a very steady and calm QB who has enough arm strength in the NFL to be a good starting game manager. Surround him with a good team and he can take you to the playoffs. Makes great intermediate throws in tight spots, can move around the pocket, and is pretty decisive. His ceiling is higher than Andy Dalton in my opinion. Does not use his feet as much though. Peterman is undersized and jittery. Does not have good arm strength but his release is very fast and he has great zip and accuracy on his balls. I see what McDermott sees in him, but I don't believe he can be a good starter in this league. I think his ceiling is smart and surprisingly good backup QB. He will be a backup on this team as long as McDermott is here. Can surprise you with some 300 yard games. AJ is going to win the job this offseason. Would be very surprised if he doesn't. Should get us anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 depending on how everyone else plays. Next year we can start talking about AJ vs. Allen. Allen's ceiling is top 3-5 superstar QB, in case anybody was wondering. Allen can probably start this year, but AJ is too steady a QB in general to take that risk. No need to rush things. Excellent analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Brodie Croyle and Greg McElroy were better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 You dont need a strong arm to be among the best QB's but there is nothing wrong with a strong arm. What is common among the best QB's is pre and post snap processing and throwing accurately and on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 50 minutes ago, eball said: I recall fans questioning EJ's arm strength after watching him play for the Bills -- as in, "I thought this guy was supposed to have a strong arm?" I don't even remember anyone saying he had a great arm. I just remember the hands. Hands. Hands. EJ had huge hands. Sport Science did a piece on EJ, and it was about floating the ball. They never even brought up arm strength. 49 minutes ago, musichunch said: Looking at college tape, AJ is a very steady and calm QB who has enough arm strength in the NFL to be a good starting game manager. Surround him with a good team and he can take you to the playoffs. Makes great intermediate throws in tight spots, can move around the pocket, and is pretty decisive. His ceiling is higher than Andy Dalton in my opinion. Does not use his feet as much though. Peterman is undersized and jittery. Does not have good arm strength but his release is very fast and he has great zip and accuracy on his balls. I see what McDermott sees in him, but I don't believe he can be a good starter in this league. I think his ceiling is smart and surprisingly good backup QB. He will be a backup on this team as long as McDermott is here. Can surprise you with some 300 yard games. AJ is going to win the job this offseason. Would be very surprised if he doesn't. Should get us anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 depending on how everyone else plays. Next year we can start talking about AJ vs. Allen. Allen's ceiling is top 3-5 superstar QB, in case anybody was wondering. Allen can probably start this year, but AJ is too steady a QB in general to take that risk. No need to rush things. If your analysis is true and accurate I think everybody on this board would be stoked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Sky Diver said: Allen is off the charts. I never heard anyone question EJ’s atm strength, so it’s odd that it has come up with McCarron. If can get some protection, I think he will be fine until Allen is ready to play. I always believed that arm strength and velocity are a bit different... EJ has good arm strength but as others have said his velocity in game always looked a little down because he threw with trajectory McCarron was zipping balls at the combine so his velocity #s are good but his pure arm strength isn’t at EJs level... same with Peterman, decent velocity #s but his arm strength leaves some to be desired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Wily Dog said: Peterman worked in the offseason to strengthen his arm and so the velocity of his throws has increased. I wonder how much you can improve "arm strength." What we call "arm strength" in a QB has to do with the distance he can throw the ball and how much velocity he can put on it. Mechanics factor into this. So does fast twitch muscles and explosiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, ddaryl said: Ì don't know much about dancin', that's why I got this song One of my legs is shorter than the other and both my feet's too long 'Course now right along with 'em, I got no natural rhythm But I go dancin' every night, hopin' one day I might get it right You are either referring to a "Dancin' Fool" or somebody is Moving to Montana? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, BBills88 said: He measured better than Tyrod Taylor & DeShaun Watson Weird because Tyrod never had any issue firing the ball long. Can not remember one throw that was short. Just using the eye test I would say Tyrod had/has one of the strongest arms in NFL. Edited May 9, 2018 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said: You are either referring to a "Dancin' Fool" or somebody is Moving to Montana? Well We ain't no dental floss tycoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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