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The Wunderlich test for quarterbacks


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2 minutes ago, Cruiserplayer said:

The range of the score does matter. Unfortunately it is a huge strike if the player cannot spell wonder.

Haha OP is now off my draft board. That's like how you get 200 points on the SAT for spelling your name correctly

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48    Ryan Fitzpatrick    Harvard    QB
48    Greg McElroy    Alabama    QB
43    Jason Maas    Oregon    QB
42    Blaine Gabbert    Missouri    QB
42    Drew Henson    Michigan    QB

 

Top 5 ever scores for QBs.

Yeah.

That's an all time great QB list, huh?

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8 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:


48    Ryan Fitzpatrick    Harvard    QB
48    Greg McElroy    Alabama    QB
43    Jason Maas    Oregon    QB
42    Blaine Gabbert    Missouri    QB
42    Drew Henson    Michigan    QB

 

Top 5 ever scores for QBs.

Yeah.

That's an all time great QB list, huh?

 

Blake Bortles could actually be good if he didn’t suck so bad.

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10 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:


48    Ryan Fitzpatrick    Harvard    QB
48    Greg McElroy    Alabama    QB
43    Jason Maas    Oregon    QB
42    Blaine Gabbert    Missouri    QB
42    Drew Henson    Michigan    QB

 

Top 5 ever scores for QBs.

Yeah.

That's an all time great QB list, huh?

  You miss the point of the test.  They aren’t looking for a research scientist .  What they. don’t want is dolts like Vince Young and his 6.  Most successful QBs score  above the average which is 20 I believe ?

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7 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

  You miss the point of the test.  They aren’t looking for a research scientist .  What they. don’t want is dolts like Vince Young and his 6.  Most successful QBs score  above the average which is 20 I believe ?

 

Yeah, they're looking for guys in the mid-20's to mid-30's.  The extremes raise red flags.

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17 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

  You miss the point of the test.  They aren’t looking for a research scientist .  What they. don’t want is dolts like Vince Young and his 6.  Most successful QBs score  above the average which is 20 I believe ?

 

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, they're looking for guys in the mid-20's to mid-30's.  The extremes raise red flags.

 

I know prissy, I was making a joke.

 

Here is a wall of text I copied from an article online.

It is good info from last year's QB tests.

 

 

here are the present Super Bowl winning quarterbacks currently active in the NFL and their Wonderlic scores:

Eli Manning 39

Aaron Rodgers 35

Tom Brady 33

Drew Brees 28

Russell Wilson 28

Joe Flacco 27

Ben Roethlisberger 25

This means the average Super Bowl winning quarterback scored a 30.7. (That’s not counting Brady’s 33 five times or Eli Manning’s 39 twice either. If you did that the average score bumps up to 32.3)

That’s statistically significant. 

How did this year’s 2017 quarterback prospects score?

Brad Kaaya 34

Nathan Peterman 33

Trevor Knight 30

Josh Dobbs 29

Deshone Kizer 28

CJ Beathard 26

Mitch Trubisky 25

Davis Webb 25

Patrick Mahomes 24

Chad Kelly 22 

Jerod Evans 21

Deshaun Watson 20

And how have current or recent NFL draft picks at quarterback scored? (Super Bowl winning quarterbacks are in bold).

Ryan Fitzpatrick, Harvard 48

Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 42

Alex Smith, Utah 40

Carson Wentz, North Dakota State 40

Eli Manning, Ole Miss 39

Matthew Stafford, Georgia 38

Tony Romo, Eastern Illinois 37

Andrew Luck, Stanford 37

Colin Kaepernick, Nevada 37

Sam Bradford, Oklahoma 36

Jared Goff, Cal 36

Aaron Rodgers, Cal 35

Matt Leinart, USC 35

Christian Ponder, FSU 35

Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M 34

Tom Brady, Michigan 33

Steve Young, BYU 33

Marcus Mariota, Oregon 33

Matt Ryan, Boston College 32

Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M 32

Philip Rivers, N.C. State 30

John Elway, Stanford 29

Andy Dalton, TCU 29

Peyton Manning, Tennessee 28

Drew Brees, Purdue 28

Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 28

E.J. Manuel, FSU 28

Blake Bortles, Central Florida 28

Joe Flacco, Delaware 27

Jameis Winston, Florida State 27

Josh Freeman, Kansas State 27

Mike Glennon, N.C. State 26

Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt 26

Carson Palmer, USC 26

Ryan Mallet, Arkansas 26

Ben Roethlisberger, Miami (Ohio) 25

Dak Prescott, Mississippi State 25

Brock Osweiler, Colorado State 25

Robert Griffin III, Baylor 24

Geno Smith, West Virginia 24

JaMarcus Russell, LSU 24

Bret Favre, Southern Miss 22

Tim Tebow, Florida 22

Tim Couch, Kentucky 22

AJ McCarron, Alabama 22

Cam Newton, Auburn 21

Derek Carr, Fresno State 20

Jake Locker, Washington 20

Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville 20

Mike Vick, Virginia Tech 20

Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana Tech 16

Heath Shuler, Tennessee 16

Dan Marino, Pittsburgh 16

Donovan McNabb, Syracuse 15

Jim Kelly, Miami 15

Vince Young, Texas 6 (although he reportedly retook it and scored a 15)

As you can see above Bradshaw, Marino, McNabb and Kelly all had successful NFL careers despite posting low Wonderlic scores. These quarterbacks are frequently cited to prove the Wonderlic doesn’t matter at all. But when you view their scores in context they seem to be statistical aberrations. In particular, McNabb is the only player drafted in the past twenty years who has posted a poor Wonderlic score and had a long NFL career as a starting quarterback.

And who knows what explains their low scores? Were they not prepared? Did they not care about taking the test? We simply don’t know. But it’s certainly not a legitimate argument to point to these guys as successes and say their success invalidates the test. Like the forty, the bench press, the shuttle and height measurements, the Wonderlic is simply a tool utilized to standardize quarterback comparison off the field itself.

Of course the Wonderlic isn’t perfect, but neither is putting football players in their underwear and having them do a variety of physical tests.  

The truth is this, there is no dispositive test that proves what will make a successful quarterback in the NFL. But the fact that Cam Newton and Derek Carr are the only successful NFL quarterbacks in the league right now with Wonderlic scores below 25 seems like a pretty significant data point to consider if you’re drafting a quarterback. 

Scoring high doesn’t guarantee you’re going to be a Super Bowl winner — hello, Ryan Fitzpatrick — but scoring low does make it significantly more likely that you won’t be one. 

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51 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

LOL. Ask @Gugny

 

Any original material out there? Other than re-hashed Tweets and “expert” mock drafts?

 

You are an !@#$ for getting me into this, yet again.

 

Since 2000, not one QB who has scored below 16 has been a successful NFL starter.

 

SOME of those who've scored 16 or above have been successful.

 

That does not mean that any QB who scores 16 or above WILL be successful.

 

It DOES mean that any QB who scores BELOW 16 WILL NOT be successful.

 

I invite anyone to do the research and dispute my findings.   Please note ... this is since 2000 and not before.

 

 

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The Wonderlic Personnel Test doesn't appear to have any value in predicting future NFL performance. 

 

Quote

Empirical research has supported the validity of GMA as a predictor of job performance in traditional employment settings. However, the results from this study suggest that in the context of professional football, GMA (a) possessed a near-zero relationship with performance across positions and had an occasional significant negative relationship with performance by position, (b) did not differently predict performance by race, and (c) was unrelated to selection in the NFL Draft or the number of games started during an NFL season. Therefore, its use in the NFL Combine is, at best, questionable in nature.

 

Also note that the test was apparently revised and renamed in 2007 to "containing questions more appropriate to the 21st century" according to Wikipedia. 

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1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

I know prissy, I was making a joke.

 

Here is a wall of text I copied from an article online.

It is good info from last year's QB tests.

 

 

here are the present Super Bowl winning quarterbacks currently active in the NFL and their Wonderlic scores:

Eli Manning 39

Aaron Rodgers 35

Tom Brady 33

Drew Brees 28

Russell Wilson 28

Joe Flacco 27

Ben Roethlisberger 25

This means the average Super Bowl winning quarterback scored a 30.7. (That’s not counting Brady’s 33 five times or Eli Manning’s 39 twice either. If you did that the average score bumps up to 32.3)

That’s statistically significant. 

How did this year’s 2017 quarterback prospects score?

Brad Kaaya 34

Nathan Peterman 33

Trevor Knight 30

Josh Dobbs 29

Deshone Kizer 28

CJ Beathard 26

Mitch Trubisky 25

Davis Webb 25

Patrick Mahomes 24

Chad Kelly 22 

Jerod Evans 21

Deshaun Watson 20

And how have current or recent NFL draft picks at quarterback scored? (Super Bowl winning quarterbacks are in bold).

Ryan Fitzpatrick, Harvard 48

Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 42

Alex Smith, Utah 40

Carson Wentz, North Dakota State 40

Eli Manning, Ole Miss 39

Matthew Stafford, Georgia 38

Tony Romo, Eastern Illinois 37

Andrew Luck, Stanford 37

Colin Kaepernick, Nevada 37

Sam Bradford, Oklahoma 36

Jared Goff, Cal 36

Aaron Rodgers, Cal 35

Matt Leinart, USC 35

Christian Ponder, FSU 35

Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M 34

Tom Brady, Michigan 33

Steve Young, BYU 33

Marcus Mariota, Oregon 33

Matt Ryan, Boston College 32

Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M 32

Philip Rivers, N.C. State 30

John Elway, Stanford 29

Andy Dalton, TCU 29

Peyton Manning, Tennessee 28

Drew Brees, Purdue 28

Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 28

E.J. Manuel, FSU 28

Blake Bortles, Central Florida 28

Joe Flacco, Delaware 27

Jameis Winston, Florida State 27

Josh Freeman, Kansas State 27

Mike Glennon, N.C. State 26

Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt 26

Carson Palmer, USC 26

Ryan Mallet, Arkansas 26

Ben Roethlisberger, Miami (Ohio) 25

Dak Prescott, Mississippi State 25

Brock Osweiler, Colorado State 25

Robert Griffin III, Baylor 24

Geno Smith, West Virginia 24

JaMarcus Russell, LSU 24

Bret Favre, Southern Miss 22

Tim Tebow, Florida 22

Tim Couch, Kentucky 22

AJ McCarron, Alabama 22

Cam Newton, Auburn 21

Derek Carr, Fresno State 20

Jake Locker, Washington 20

Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville 20

Mike Vick, Virginia Tech 20

Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana Tech 16

Heath Shuler, Tennessee 16

Dan Marino, Pittsburgh 16

Donovan McNabb, Syracuse 15

Jim Kelly, Miami 15

Vince Young, Texas 6 (although he reportedly retook it and scored a 15)

As you can see above Bradshaw, Marino, McNabb and Kelly all had successful NFL careers despite posting low Wonderlic scores. These quarterbacks are frequently cited to prove the Wonderlic doesn’t matter at all. But when you view their scores in context they seem to be statistical aberrations. In particular, McNabb is the only player drafted in the past twenty years who has posted a poor Wonderlic score and had a long NFL career as a starting quarterback.

And who knows what explains their low scores? Were they not prepared? Did they not care about taking the test? We simply don’t know. But it’s certainly not a legitimate argument to point to these guys as successes and say their success invalidates the test. Like the forty, the bench press, the shuttle and height measurements, the Wonderlic is simply a tool utilized to standardize quarterback comparison off the field itself.

Of course the Wonderlic isn’t perfect, but neither is putting football players in their underwear and having them do a variety of physical tests.  

The truth is this, there is no dispositive test that proves what will make a successful quarterback in the NFL. But the fact that Cam Newton and Derek Carr are the only successful NFL quarterbacks in the league right now with Wonderlic scores below 25 seems like a pretty significant data point to consider if you’re drafting a quarterback. 

Scoring high doesn’t guarantee you’re going to be a Super Bowl winner — hello, Ryan Fitzpatrick — but scoring low does make it significantly more likely that you won’t be one. 

 

Oh nooooo AJ McCarron is wonderlically challenged? 

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30 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

nah

terry bradshaw is one of the dumbest people I've seen in sports.

 

Well, if that is true, he is one of the smartest dumb people who ever walked the earth.

 

Terry Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls and is in the Hall of Fame.

 

He has acted in movies and television.  He has a star on the Hollywood walk of fame. He has written books, sold records, and has a career in advertising spanning 4 decades. He has also enjoyed a prosperous broadcasting career which is still going strong.

 

I only wish I was as stupid as Terry Bradshaw is.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

Well, if that is true, he is one of the smartest dumb people who ever walked the earth.

 

Terry Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls and is in the Hall of Fame.

 

He has acted in movies and television.  He has a star on the Hollywood walk of fame. He has written books, sold records, and has a career in advertising spanning 4 decades. He has also enjoyed a prosperous broadcasting career which is still going strong.

 

I only wish I was as stupid as Terry Bradshaw is.

 

 

 

 

you mean as talented, have you heard him speak? Painful. I could say the same about Bill Walton

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1 hour ago, RememberTheRockpile said:

The Wonderlic Personnel Test doesn't appear to have any value in predicting future NFL performance. 

 

 

Also note that the test was apparently revised and renamed in 2007 to "containing questions more appropriate to the 21st century" according to Wikipedia. 

 

I wonder how math and logic questions have been changed to become more appropriate to modern times.

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27 minutes ago, RememberTheRockpile said:

 

Not all of it is math and logic. 

Sample Test

 

Example:

35.) A synonym of firmament is:
A) Ground
B) River
C) Sky
D) Future

 

So....understanding the English language has also 'evolved' to fit the 21st Century?

 

Go illiteracy!!

 

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6 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

I wonder how math and logic questions have been changed to become more appropriate to modern times.

 

The two trains approaching each other from opposite directions are now high speed mag lev trains as opposed to steam engines 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood
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Of course it matters to GMs, or they wouldn't bother administering the test at the combine.  It's just not the only thing that matters.  If everything else checks out on a QB,  a GM may well overlook it and draft the guy anyway, and it's possible he'll have a great career.  On the other hand, everything else being equal, a GM is going to pick the smarter guy over the dumb one every time, unless his own Wonderlic is in the single digits.  It's like hand size.  It is one more tool in trying to reduce the element of chance in the very inexact "science" of picking the next great QB.  Yet Jared Goff was drafted first overall despite a hand size of 9 inches even.

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12 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

You are an !@#$ for getting me into this, yet again.

 

Since 2000, not one QB who has scored below 16 has been a successful NFL starter.

 

SOME of those who've scored 16 or above have been successful.

 

That does not mean that any QB who scores 16 or above WILL be successful.

 

It DOES mean that any QB who scores BELOW 16 WILL NOT be successful.

 

I invite anyone to do the research and dispute my findings.   Please note ... this is since 2000 and not before.

 

 

 

Vince Young: 2 Pro Bowls and AFC Rookie of the Year.

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2 minutes ago, mileena said:

 

Vince Young: 2 Pro Bowls and AFC Rookie of the Year.

 

Vince Young is one of the worst QBs in the entire history of the sport.

 

Bob Griffin had a great rookie year, too.

 

Young, as well as Griffin, was unsuccessful as an NFL QB.

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9 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

Well, if that is true, he is one of the smartest dumb people who ever walked the earth.

 

Terry Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls and is in the Hall of Fame.

 

He has acted in movies and television.  He has a star on the Hollywood walk of fame. He has written books, sold records, and has a career in advertising spanning 4 decades. He has also enjoyed a prosperous broadcasting career which is still going strong.

 

I only wish I was as stupid as Terry Bradshaw is.

 

 

 

 

 

He might be successful, but he is still stupid. And much of his successes were only as a result of him winning four Super Bowls. He didn't earn them. He wasn't even that good of a quarterback. And he didn't write any books; his co-authors did.

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1 hour ago, mileena said:

 

He might be successful, but he is still stupid. And much of his successes were only as a result of him winning four Super Bowls. He didn't earn them. He wasn't even that good of a quarterback. And he didn't write any books; his co-authors did.

List your accomplishments.

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14 hours ago, prissythecat said:

  You miss the point of the test.  They aren’t looking for a research scientist .  What they. don’t want is dolts like Vince Young and his 6.  Most successful QBs score  above the average which is 20 I believe ?

 

Do you really need a test to weed out the window lickers?

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3 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Of course it matters to GMs, or they wouldn't bother administering the test at the combine.  It's just not the only thing that matters.  If everything else checks out on a QB,  a GM may well overlook it and draft the guy anyway, and it's possible he'll have a great career.  On the other hand, everything else being equal, a GM is going to pick the smarter guy over the dumb one every time, unless his own Wonderlic is in the single digits.  It's like hand size.  It is one more tool in trying to reduce the element of chance in the very inexact "science" of picking the next great QB.  Yet Jared Goff was drafted first overall despite a hand size of 9 inches even.

 

The GM's that were around when the Wonderlic test was instituted are no longer around. Why would they bother administering it? Most likely because that is what they have always done. The study I posted found no correlation to being drafted or playing time. While there may be a GM or two that consider it, the evidence indicates as a group GM's don't consider it important. 

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2 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Laces out Dan!!

 

I don't spend a second listening to any NFL talking heads, I think I see him on the panel as i fast forward to the kickoff

 

That's very brave of him to talk publicly.

 

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This is one of those practices that most everybody will think has to be a good idea because the NFL is big business and they know what they are doing. So somebody like me telling folks that it is a mistake to put any weight on it at all, is useless.

 

The Wonderlic is a rough measure that is mostly right, most of the time. 

 

 The NFL uses formulas to weigh factors like Wonderlic score and come up with a ranking outcome for draft prospects.

 

There is a saying about formulas among those who use them. "Garbage in, Garbage out". The Wonderlic is garbage in because it is only mostly right, most of the time.

 

I know it doesn't make sense to believe me, mr random message board poster over every NFL team.

 

So all I will say is I hope Beane doesn't pay attention to it.

 

 

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