Rapaport: Bills won’t cut Tyrod, fine with paying 6 mill bonus

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Flutie and Bledsoe much then Tyrod.

Bledsoe was terrible! Why does the myth persist? After his first 8 games (i.e., over the next 40), he was one of the worst qbs in franchise history.

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, Steptide said:

I agree that the bills will get another qb one way or another. 

 

And yes I enjoyed the playoff run just as much as any bills fan, but I put maybe 20% of the reason we got there on Tyrod. The other 80% would be a mix of defense and shady. 

which i'm perfectly fine with for another year while the rookie learns or even takes the job.

[BringBackOrton]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

In 2015 he started in 14 games, in 2016 he started in 15 games, and in 2017 he started in 14 games. Comparing totals to 16 game starters is never going to look good that way.

 

At the end of the day it boils down to attempts, and there are several things that factor into attempts. In 2015 Tyrod was 35th in pass attempts per game (29.7), in 2016 he was 28th (31.9), and in 2017 he was 36th (31.1). Do I think he maintains his 7.99 YPA in 2015 if his attempts per game goes up by 5-7? No, but I also don't make that claim. His overall yardage numbers most certainly would have gone up though. Just like receiving numbers and targets.

 

And of course everyone deals with injuries, but the fact that in 29 games one of his top 2 targets didn't play 48% of the time is pretty bad.

You simply cannot make this statement without a league wide comparison of every QB and their top 2 targets during that 2 year period.

Edited February 23, 2018 by jmc12290

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

You simply cannot make this statement without a league wide comparison of every QB and their top 2 targets during that 2 year period.

I just did. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I just did. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Okay.

 

Between 2015 and 2016, Cam Newton was missing one of his top 2 targets over 50% of the time. In fact, Cam lost one of those players for 100% of 2015. I think he did okay that year.

Edited February 23, 2018 by jmc12290

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Okay.

 

Between 2015 and 2016, Cam Newton was missing one of his top 2 targets over 50% of the time.

Yes, and I would also say that is bad.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Yes, and I would also say that is bad.

Aaron Rodgers also lost his #1 for 50% of the time between 2015 and 2016. Not between both his one and two, just his one.

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

TT still couldn’t pass under Alynn and the offense was incredibly unbalanced. The stats looked good but the wins did not because defenses knew what they had to do in crunch time and they were one dimensional. A  DFS passing game is not a recipe for success. You have to have a balanced offense.

 

The points looked good.  7th in the league.  Add a decent D, like we have now (as opposed to whatever the Ryan twins were doing out there), and things could look a lot better record wise.

[TheFunPolice]

I'm not trying to be nasty about it although I did respond with some snark to the person who did the same with me.

 

It's just that words matter. When you cite 27/6 and say that is well above average that means you are comparing Tyrod's stats to some mathematical average of all the other QBs in the same scenario.

 

Can someone please answer the following:

 

1. How many games do the 27/6 stats represent?

 

2. What numbers were compared to Tyrod's 27/6 to support the conclusion that his play was well above average?

 

That is my issue with the post.

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, bobobonators said:

I can take another year of Tyrod on the field.  I can’t take another year of the Tyrod convo on these boards. The discussion becomes nauseating. 

 

Every week, win or loss, the conversation turns into how many yards did he throw for; how many progressions did he miss; bring out the All-22 experts; create 20 weekly threads about Tyrod sucking. 

 

Its brutal. 

 

but the winning and playoffs makes it all worthwhile

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Aren't you pretty strongly on record as you would take anyone over Tyrod?  Glennon, Mccarron, Glass-leg Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, Moore etc?

 

EJ?

[TheFunPolice]

How much of the winning was because of Tyrod?

 

He deserves credit for not turning it over but really the game plan is to minimize his impact on the game and force turnovers on defense. If teams don't turn it over the team is in trouble.

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

23 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Aaron Rodgers also lost his #1 for 50% of the time between 2015 and 2016. Not between both his one and two, just his one.

And his numbers dipped as expected, right?

 

I would never say Tyrod is equal to Rodgers, but if losing your 1 has an effect on Rodgers you have to expect it to effect a lesser QB as well imo.

Edited February 23, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Garoppolo has won 7 NFL games (5 of them on a franchise that was Loooooosing until he came in) with 67% completions, 12 TD to 5 incompletions, and (in SF) 260 ypg.  If you list Watson (or Wentz), you gotta give Garoppolo his propers.

 

OK, now we're getting somewhere.  Whether you think the number is 10% or 15%, the point is - draft and develop is NOT the only way to find a franchise QB.  FA or trade are not common ways to find one, but they're frequent enough to flick the meter.  This past year, 8/32 teams were substantially led by QB they didn't draft.  2 of those (Taylor and McCown) are arguably not on anyone's radar to become franchise QB.  That means 6/32 (19%) were led by QB who are/were or might become - Foles, Brees, Smith, Keenum, Garoppolo, Palmer.  (Yes, I think Foles and Keenum might become franchise QB in the right situation, when you see a full season of good QB and playoffs out of a QB, most GMs start to think that too)

 

I will grant you you can get a franchise QB through free agency .

 

But your odds of finding a franchise QB are significantly higher through draft and develop. 

 

And on on top of it, you will have the rookie cheap the first 3 to 4 years

[TheFunPolice]

Is anyone really arguing that losing Sammy and Robert hurt Tyrod's numbers? Of course it did.

 

My issue is with the assertion that with those guys both on the field Tyrod's play was well above average. Based on what? Again, where do the 27/6 numbers come from (i.e. how many games) and what were the numbers for every other starter in the same number of games with all of his WR's healthy?

 

It's so hard to objectively compare because all the WR are not of equal skill, and as BuffaloHokie pointed out some guys get more attempts, which results in more yards and TDs (and also more INT I would add). Coaches are different. Schemes are different. OL are different.

 

We COULD just take Tyrod's best 16 games over his first 2 years with the Bills and put them together into 1 16 game "season." Then do the same for all the other starters in the league during that time. Then we would be comparing numbers to numbers, even as problematic as that would remain.

Another way to look at Robert Woods leaving is that he just had the best year of his career. Sammy almost tied his best year in terms of TDs
(8 vs 9) but his yardage was down.

 

Marquise Goodwin had almost 1,000 yards receiving this season, easily his most productive year.

 

Two different teams with 2 different QBs. Systems matter but there is a trend.

 

 

[xRUSHx]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

I agree that the bills will get another qb one way or another. 

 

And yes I enjoyed the playoff run just as much as any bills fan, but I put maybe 20% of the reason we got there on Tyrod. The other 80% would be a mix of defense and shady. 

If it wasn't for Cinci it just wouldn't have mattered. IMO Tyrod gets 10% while Cinci gets 10%, I agree with your 80%.

Edited February 23, 2018 by xRUSHx

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Is anyone really arguing that losing Sammy and Robert hurt Tyrod's numbers? Of course it did.

Sadly yes, there are. There are people who believe Tyrod was the only thing wrong with out offense in 2017. There are people who point to his numbers and say he has regressed while the talent also degraded around him. There are people who think that if we had Randy Moss and Jerry Rice in their primes that we wouldn't be able to pass because Tyrod. It's insanity. That is why folks like GRB pull out the stats from 15 games where he had his top 2 WRs (who are nowhere near as good as Moss or Rice, obviously).

 

Tyrod's never going to lead an offense like Brady did against us in 2015 (59 pass attempts that game alone). But he can and has performed adequately when the offense plays to his strengths and there is adequate talent around him (kinda like Andy Dalton and Alex Smith).

[YoloinOhio]

50 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

The points looked good.  7th in the league.  Add a decent D, like we have now (as opposed to whatever the Ryan twins were doing out there), and things could look a lot better record wise.

The overall points looked good but they weren’t in the right place to translate to a playoff team. They rolled up the score on bad teams, but couldn’t win games that needed them to pull it out at the end like Seattle. You simply can’t depend on the D keeping teams to 10-15 points a game. That’s what the Bills have been doing for 20 years - trying to win with a running game and D and hide the QB. You will inevitably play offenses that no D can completely stop like NE, NO, Pitt etc and need to have a passing game to win.

[reddogblitz]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Sadly yes, there are. There are people who believe Tyrod was the only thing wrong with out offense in 2017. There are people who point to his numbers and say he has regressed while the talent also degraded around him.

 

Shady's numbers were way down too.  His ypc was 1.4 less in 2017 than 2016.  Should be replace him too?

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

Shady's numbers were way down too.  His ypc was 1.4 less in 2017 than 2016.  Should be replace him too?

I'm all for picking up a talented RB on day 2 to take some carries off Shady's plate. Just like I'm all for using multiple draft picks to move up for a talented QB.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And there's the thing: do we have one?

 

An incredibly fair question  

[ALF]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

TT still couldn’t pass under Alynn and the offense was incredibly unbalanced. The stats looked good but the wins did not because defenses knew what they had to do in crunch time and they were one dimensional. A  DFS passing game is not a recipe for success. You have to have a balanced offense.

I remember him from FNL

 

Taylor a 1 year bridge or another better till the drafted QB is ready. Taylor is a backup and a class act who I like.

[reddogblitz]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

The overall points looked good but they weren’t in the right place to translate to a playoff team. They rolled up the score on bad teams, but couldn’t win games that needed them to pull it out at the end like Seattle. You simply can’t depend on the D keeping teams to 10-15 points a game. That’s what the Bills have been doing for 20 years - trying to win with a running game and D and hide the QB. You will inevitably play offenses that no D can completely stop like NE, NO, Pitt etc and need to have a passing game to win.

 

Yes and No.  

 

We scored 30+ vs the Fish and the D meanwhile gave up more.  We scored 31 vs the Jets but the D gave up 37.  We put up 25 vs Pats and Fish first time and Hawks losing all 3.  D has to take some blame for those too.  Only one game we would have won if the D kept the other team to 15.  Stealers, we lost 27-20.

 

If Rex had built us a great D as promised, the drought would have ended a year or two ealier.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, ALF said:

 

Taylor a 1 year bridge or another better till the drafted QB is ready. Taylor is a backup and a class act who I like.

Yes of course. Me too. 

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Shady's numbers were way down too.  His ypc was 1.4 less in 2017 than 2016.  Should be replace him too?

Probably IMO.

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Yes and No.  

 

We scored 30+ vs the Fish and the D meanwhile gave up more.  We scored 31 vs the Jets but the D gave up 37.  We put up 25 vs Pats and Fish first time and Hawks losing all 3.  D has to take some blame for those too.  Only one game we would have won if the D kept the other team to 15.  Stealers, we lost 27-20.

 

If Rex had built us a great D as promised, the drought would have ended a year or two ealier.

Yes. rex’s d sucked. 

[BigDingus]

This doesn't mean anything on whether or not the Bills are going to keep him.

If they pay the $6 million, he's much easier to trade. Not only that, but his contract is so cheap for the position that it's not a huge hit to them if they have to eat some money. 

$10 million for a serviceable but mediocre starter with "potential" and/or a quality backup at the QB position is good value that other teams would likely be interested in. This is actually smart if the Bills hope to get something in return for him.

[Reed83HOF]

16 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Taylor a 1 year bridge or another better till the drafted QB is ready. Taylor is a backup and a class act who I like.

 

It has been said throughout the media as well and not just on here is that you run a limited playbook with TT, for a rook who will be on the bench and learning I would prefer not to have to run and practice with a limited playbook...

 

Also I would rather have a QB who can make reads to be able to help groom the rook - Fitz, McCown are those guys, TT isn't

 

As a person I love TT, he is a class act and a backup. He is also not the right person to help a rookie imo

[OldTimer1960]

36 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

It has been said throughout the media as well and not just on here is that you run a limited playbook with TT, for a rook who will be on the bench and learning I would prefer not to have to run and practice with a limited playbook...

 

Also I would rather have a QB who can make reads to be able to help groom the rook - Fitz, McCown are those guys, TT isn't

 

As a person I love TT, he is a class act and a backup. He is also not the right person to help a rookie imo

I agree with this.  A rookie could learn from Taylor's professionalism, but isn't going to learn an awful lot about actually playing the position from Taylor.  I agree that Fitz and McCown would be better guys for that role.  

[Kirby Jackson]

Sounds like Joe Thomas wants Tyrod in Cleveland:

 

http://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/joe-thomas-says-cleveland-browns-chances-of-landing-kirk-cousins-are-out-the-window/95-522587740

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sounds like Joe Thomas wants Tyrod in Cleveland:

 

http://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/joe-thomas-says-cleveland-browns-chances-of-landing-kirk-cousins-are-out-the-window/95-522587740

"Tyrod, he's the most underrated guy in free agency, in my opinion," Thomas said. "I like him better than all those other sort of second-tier guys."

 

Tyrod ain't a free agent!!

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

"Tyrod, he's the most underrated guy in free agency, in my opinion," Thomas said. "I like him better than all those other sort of second-tier guys."

 

Tyrod ain't a free agent!!

 

Cle can have him the for the 4th pick...

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sounds like Joe Thomas wants Tyrod in Cleveland:

 

http://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/joe-thomas-says-cleveland-browns-chances-of-landing-kirk-cousins-are-out-the-window/95-522587740

 

As his discussion with Hawkins regarding signal-callers continue, Thomas let it be known that he's a big fan of Buffalo Bills quarterback Tyrod Taylor.

"Tyrod, he's the most underrated guy in free agency, in my opinion," Thomas said. "I like him better than all those other sort of second-tier guys."

 

Pretty strong endorsement. And I do think Cleveland makes the most sense as a trade partner.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Yes and No.  

 

We scored 30+ vs the Fish and the D meanwhile gave up more.  We scored 31 vs the Jets but the D gave up 37.  We put up 25 vs Pats and Fish first time and Hawks losing all 3.  D has to take some blame for those too.  Only one game we would have won if the D kept the other team to 15.  Stealers, we lost 27-20.

 

If Rex had built us a great D as promised, the drought would have ended a year or two ealier.

To be fair, the Bills scored 24 against the Jets in 2016, not 31. There was a defensive TD, plus 7 of those 24 were in absolute garbage time. That Steelers game wasn't remotely close. More garbage time points - a td with one minute to go.

Edited February 23, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

"Tyrod, he's the most underrated guy in free agency, in my opinion," Thomas said. "I like him better than all those other sort of second-tier guys."

 

Tyrod ain't a free agent!!

Ha ha, I knew someone would comment on that. Does that constitute tampering?

[TheFunPolice]

The best thing for Tyrod is for him to be released early, preferably while the stupid money is flowing in the first days of free agency. The long the Bills hold him the more he is going to lose in terms of pay.

 

The team benched him in the middle of a playoff run AFTER letting him go test the market a year ago and then making him take a huge paycut to come back. Can it be any more obvious that they don't see him as "the guy" here?

 

Shake hands, cut the man loose, and let him continue his career with a  fresh start. This is getting stupid.

[Luxy312]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Ha ha, I knew someone would comment on that. Does that constitute tampering?

 

I was thinking the same thing.  Then again, Von Millar mentioned Cousins coming to Denver and I heard no penalties as a result of that.  

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sounds like Joe Thomas wants Tyrod in Cleveland:

 

http://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/joe-thomas-says-cleveland-browns-chances-of-landing-kirk-cousins-are-out-the-window/95-522587740

Someone needs to take this guy’s phone away. It’s been going on for months. 

Just now, Luxy312 said:

 

I was thinking the same thing.  Then again, Von Millar mentioned Cousins coming to Denver and I heard no penalties as a result of that.  

At least he’s a pending FA

[Ittakestime]

8 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

The best thing for Tyrod is for him to be released early, preferably while the stupid money is flowing in the first days of free agency. The long the Bills hold him the more he is going to lose in terms of pay.

 

The team benched him in the middle of a playoff run AFTER letting him go test the market a year ago and then making him take a huge paycut to come back. Can it be any more obvious that they don't see him as "the guy" here?

 

Shake hands, cut the man loose, and let him continue his career with a  fresh start. This is getting stupid.

 

If he is on the team 3 days after the league year opens we owe him 6 million.  Not sure if he would be able to recoup that by getting released early versus later.  What I mean is that if we release him before the first day of FA he might get 20 million guaranteed total (doesn't include the 6 million from Bills).  If we release him later after paying him, he might end up with 18 million guaranteed, but he would also have the 6 million from Bills.

 

 

[BuffaLoko]

On 2/22/2018 at 3:06 PM, major said:

Mike Vick said Lamar Jackson is five times better than he was when he was in college 

Major, just my 2 cents, with an anecdote from a planet earth kind of job (I work in design), I worked with some skilled people and once one junior level designer

recommended us to hire a mid level designer, telling me he was ¨3 times better than him in CAD tools¨, which he ended up being more or less; what we found out 

until too late (when he created a mess in the job) is that he was not so good keeping up with rules and deadlines... so in QBs´ case is not about being more athletic 

only, but way more attributes a leader needs to have... that was Vick´s himself attested...

[Rocky Landing]

Well, one thing this $6mil bonus signals, for those who think Peterman is a better option than Tyrod, is that McD, et al, do not.