YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) I was thinking that there is very little that draft prospects can control during the process. Of course they all want to go as high as possible but the film is in the bag. They trained for the upcoming combine and the workouts can help/hurt them to some degree. But one of the biggest variables that comes out of the combine other than medicals are the team interviews. Take the QBs- they will interview with a ton of teams, some of which they may not want to go to. When a normal person is in the job market, they get to decide who they want to interview with based on where they want to work. If you are a prospect who wants to have some control over where you play the next 4-5 years before you can “decide” in FA, can’t you purposely blow the interview with a team like the Browns or (gulp - Bills) if you don’t want to go there? Not act like a total jerk or say anything outlandish that could get leaked/reported but just say some things that you think could be looked at as negative by that team ... like if you know the Bills are all about “process” so you purposely give an example of how you are more dialed in on Gameday but the week leading up to it you don’t need to focus as much. Or stumble over questions about preparation and leadership. Then when you interview with the teams you want to play for you knock it out of the park. I feel like it wouldn’t be too hard to figure out what each team wants to hear. For the pre-draft visits.... same thing. They pretty much can’t choose whether or not to go if invited, but could certainly choose to portray themselves a certain way. Edited April 18, 2018 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 It's a dangerous game. People talk. For example, it was reported before the draft that Geno Smith was more interested in playing with his phone than answering questions during his draft process a few years ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Koko78 said: It's a dangerous game. People talk. For example, it was reported before the draft that Geno Smith was more interested in playing with his phone than answering questions during his draft process a few years ago. I thought about that Geno story. I think it would need to be more crafty. Like in how you answer questions, or questions asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Didnt Kelvin Benjamin say something about dogging his 40 or whatever too so he could go later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigs Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think it would get around that your interviewing is bipolar. Someone like Schefter would be told 3 different things about a player’s interview from different teams and make it news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 The average NFL player is nowhere near intelligent enough to play this type of mind game. Some could do it for sure, and who knows, maybe they do "throw the interview" so they don't end up in Cleveland or Buffalo! But the player is not interviewing the team, the team is interviewing the player. I honestly think the teams just want 10 minutes of face to face time with these guys so they can talk to them one-on-one and see if the player is dumb as dirt, beyond dumb as dirt, or surprisingly intelligent enough to be able to work with. You don't have to talk to someone very long or ask many questions to realize he is beyond being coachable, or surprisingly sharp for a pro athlete. Look at the IQ level of Brady, Rogers, or Romo. You wouldn't have to talk to those guys very long to see what they are about. On the flip side, how long do you need to talk to Gronk to realize the guy's head is made of concrete? And then you make your decisions accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Film don't lie! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Man, it's been about a decade, but I remember a story where a first round graded player botched a couple drills because his childhood team that he was a fan of wanted draft him. They didn’t have a first round pick, but a second rounder. Because he botched the drills, he slid to the middle rounds and was passed by his childhood team. He ended up being drafted by another team and never panned out. He ended up saying he botched the drills years after he was out of the league. I'm going to have to look back and research to find out who the guy was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Coaches can manipulate the hiring process (Ryan) thru interviews, so it likely can't hurt draft prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: The average NFL player is nowhere near intelligent enough to play this type of mind game. Some could do it for sure, and who knows, maybe they do "throw the interview" so they don't end up in Cleveland or Buffalo! But the player is not interviewing the team, the team is interviewing the player. I honestly think the teams just want 10 minutes of face to face time with these guys so they can talk to them one-on-one and see if the player is dumb as dirt, beyond dumb as dirt, or surprisingly intelligent enough to be able to work with. You don't have to talk to someone very long or ask many questions to realize he is beyond being coachable, or surprisingly sharp for a pro athlete. Look at the IQ level of Brady, Rogers, or Romo. You wouldn't have to talk to those guys very long to see what they are about. On the flip side, how long do you need to talk to Gronk to realize the guy's head is made of concrete? And then you make your decisions accordingly. I think that can be true of some positions . For a QB - I think they might go a little deeper on the mental stuff. like with the Gruden QB camp (RIP) where he has them break down plays ... it shows how ready they are to be out there in a pro offense Edited February 21, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I've known a few guys to get scouted by the pros. The stuff that gets dug up is amazing. When I was in middle school our coach had a former athlete that was being looked at for a mid round pick, I don't remember his name, but there were half a dozen practices where the scout would come watch our practices to see what the coach was like; he told us that these coaches and scouts know that the building blocks of not just football, but life, hard work, determination, pride, rah rah rah, are built on the young practice fields across the country. It was a powerful message. But, these scouts do more than just interview. They talk to teachers, professors, administrators, preachers, neighbors, etc. But, yes, it's quite obvious a crafty player could do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: The average NFL player is nowhere near intelligent enough to play this type of mind game. Some could do it for sure, and who knows, maybe they do "throw the interview" so they don't end up in Cleveland or Buffalo! But the player is not interviewing the team, the team is interviewing the player. I honestly think the teams just want 10 minutes of face to face time with these guys so they can talk to them one-on-one and see if the player is dumb as dirt, beyond dumb as dirt, or surprisingly intelligent enough to be able to work with. You don't have to talk to someone very long or ask many questions to realize he is beyond being coachable, or surprisingly sharp for a pro athlete. Look at the IQ level of Brady, Rogers, or Romo. You wouldn't have to talk to those guys very long to see what they are about. On the flip side, how long do you need to talk to Gronk to realize the guy's head is made of concrete? And then you make your decisions accordingly. I'm sure part of it is assessing intelligence, etc. I think, especially with the limited time available, that it's more a process to gauge personality than anything else. Is the guy humble, hungry, arrogant, entitled, etc.? Is he going to mesh with the coaches and the team's particular culture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I certainly think this is possible Yolo - just as QB's in the past have expressed their desire not to play for certain teams. Sometimes it's work and other times it hasn't. You'd really need to have some massive leverage though to attempt this. You're also costing yourself about 1.5 million from 1st overall to 2nd - about 3.4 million from 1st overall to 4th - and about 16.5 million from 1st overall to 12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, White Linen said: I certainly think this is possible Yolo - just as QB's in the past have expressed their desire not to play for certain teams. Sometimes it's work and other times it hasn't. You'd really need to have some massive leverage though to attempt this. You're also costing yourself about 1.5 million from 1st overall to 2nd - about 3.4 million from 1st overall to 4th - and about 16.5 million from 1st overall to 12th. I think it would only be the top guys. And they would need to be sneaky. I just feel like players kind of resent the draft process. Most were highly recruited out of HS and it was their decision where to go. Obviously that can’t happen in the pros but they have that mindset still that they want freedom to choose. I remember Zeke Elliott was very vocal about wanting to play for the cowboys and even wore Cowboys colors to the draft. Edited February 21, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think agents do the dirty work most often. It would be smarter for the player to enter every interview like he wants the job and let the love of the game, intellect and work ethic shine through. If a kid doesn't want to go somewhere that's the agent's job to communicate. It's a perverse system because the agent may be talking the player into a lower draft position and slightly less money for the agent ... but in the long run the agent wants happy, long-term clients and endorsements and second contracts are where agents really get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaccof Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Didn't John Elway and his father kind of do that back in '83 when they literally told the Colts he wouldn't play for them? Even after they drafted him, he still said he'd never play for them and his agent did a marvelous job of building trade interest and finally getting Irsay Sr. so mad he jumped in personally to negotiate not such a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think it would only be the top guys. And they would need to be sneaky. I just feel like players kind of resent the draft process. Most were highly recruited out of HS and it was their decision where to go. Obviously that can’t happen in the pros but they have that mindset still that they want freedom to choose. I remember Zeke Elliott was very vocal about wanting to play for the cowboys and even wore Cowboys colors to the draft. I believe Herm Edwards on signing day said something to the affect of how shocked he was by the difference in obtaining talent, basically going from picking nits on guys and taking who you want vs begging 17 & 18 year olds to pick your team. Are the Browns even going to interview Rosen? I can't see how that wouldn't be the most incredibly awkward interview of the process, they've both basically said they have no interest in the other. Edited February 21, 2018 by Chuck Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I believe Herm Edwards on signing day said something to the affect of how shocked he was by the difference in obtaining talent, basically going from picking nits on guys and taking who you want vs begging 17 & 18 year olds to pick your team. Are the Browns even going to interview Rosen? I can't see how that wouldn't be the most incredibly awkward interview of the process, they've both basically said they have no interest in the other. That Dorsey statement from before he took the Browns job would be like an elephant in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Gotta be the Russians again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I thought about that Geno story. I think it would need to be more crafty. Like in how you answer questions, or questions asked. ....I'm sure these personnel guys are savvy enough to read between the lines, body language, eye contact, etc just like any job interview....and their film is their resume'/references....but just like in a regular job interview, the employer sometimes hits and sometimes misses.......interestingly, Genome was OBD's first choice in 2013 until they flew down to interview him and work him out.....consensus on plane ride home was "um no thanks"......was it the interview?.....was it the workout?.....was it both?......they didn't like something and it turned out to be right....on the other hand, EJ was their 2nd choice and......"you know the rest of the story"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Yes! Why wouldn't they? If I were a top prospect and the Browns called me in for an interview, I would tell them straight up in the interview I didn't want to play for them. No need to try an fool them. And if I didn't want to play for them, why would I answer their questions or take the process seriously with them. And before you say it, NO, it would not prevent another team from draft me if they thought it could help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Fadingpain said: The average NFL player is nowhere near intelligent enough to play this type of mind game. Some could do it for sure, and who knows, maybe they do "throw the interview" so they don't end up in Cleveland or Buffalo! But the player is not interviewing the team, the team is interviewing the player. Any time a potential employee and employer sit down together to talk, they are both interviewing each other. It's just more obvious or less obvious. This QB class is interesting to me because in some years the top prospects are clearly groomed and curried to within an inch of their lives (Gabbert, Trubisky etc), having been "packaged" for this since HS. I expect Mayfield to get some grooming or coaching on how to answer the inevitable questions about his arrest and his various gestures. I can't see Rosen signing on to be groomed - his parents may force it on him, not sure how well it will stick. I expect him to try to "interview the interviewers" and you know, it will probably do the trick because coaches and GMs who wouldn't cope with being questioned/challenged will stay far far away. Edited February 21, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Gigs said: I think it would get around that your interviewing is bipolar. Someone like Schefter would be told 3 different things about a player’s interview from different teams and make it news. But Schefter is bipolar or maybe even tri-polar so what difference does it make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 hours ago, DCOrange said: I'd personally prefer Tyrod to start the season and Lamar Jackson to potentially finish it but I think that's probably the least likely scenario out there. Jackson actually intrigues me quite a lot and I had a thought that a Tyrod/Jackson pairing would be a good match. But I'm pretty sure that McBeane are looking for a pocket QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Agree with the OP...I think about this on the regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KW95 - JA17 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Had only the Bills interviewed Spiller and Leodis.......A few words from these chumps should set some alarms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, KW95 said: Had only the Bills interviewed Spiller and Leodis.......A few words from these chumps should set some alarms. “Leodis, why should we draft you?” ”I’m gonna beat that azz, point period blank” Edited February 21, 2018 by YoloinOhio 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said: Didnt Kelvin Benjamin say something about dogging his 40 or whatever too so he could go later? Just his excuse for being fat and slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) As I was reading Robert Klemko’s full profile of Baker Mayfield’s pre-draft process, I believe he did indeed try to control where he was drafted. He mentions not studying the playbook for the Chargers and tanking the meeting because he had “a lot on his plate” (basically didn’t feel they were worth his time) and declining to interview with the Bears at the combine. Klemko says he didn’t want everyone to like him. The fact that Mayfield drew a line under the 5th team in draft order, saying he wouldn’t go after that, makes me wonder how he approached his Bills meeting. Given they were at 12, how aware was he they might trade up into the top 5? He went to Miami after he was in Buffalo - given the rumors he wanted to play there awhile back, did he focus more on that one even though they are currently at 11 (but are rumored to be in talks to trade up to 6)? Also, the big rumors about the Jets being locked in on him at 3 started emerging right after his visit three. Did he put everything he had into his jets visit, knocking it out of the park? Did he tank his visit to Cleveland, since one of their primary media members has a crusade against him and he’s already blocked him in twitter? I also saw it suggested that the reason Lamar Jackson didn’t use an agent was so he could control where he went. Perhaps he only wanted to visit and work out for certain teams. Could this be why he is the only 1st rd QB who didn’t visit with Buffalo? Edited April 18, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I think some do, but I believe they are coached by their agents on how to do it and the agents do most of the dirty work. You don't want to turn down interviews cause it won't look good on you, and you don't want it to be known that you don't want to go somewhere, but I'm sure these guys aren't trying their best to get teams to draft them that they don't want to go to. I also don't think that teams share their assessments and information around the league or with the media. If the Bills heard that the jets didn't have a good feeling about someone because of their pre-draft interview, will the Bills shy away from them or interview the player themselves to see first hand? 6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: The fact that Mayfield drew a line under the 5th team in draft order, saying he wouldn’t go after that, makes me wonder how he approached his Bills meeting. Given they were I also saw it suggested that the reason Lamar Jackson didn’t use an agent was so he could control where he went. Perhaps he only wanted to visit and work out for certain teams. Could this be why he is the only 1st rd QB who didn’t visit with Buffalo? Smoke screen! Bills are taking Jackson, guaranteed!!!! Remember, during this time its always the opposite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 In a word: Yes. However it's not particularly easy to get exactly what you want when you engage in manipulation. Baker Mayfield can turn a team off with his antics in a team visit, but if he doesn't get picked by a higher team, like he wants, that behavior may cause him to drop even further, and could cost him some money. On the other hand, the lower he drops in the draft, the more likely he'll end up with a team that has a winning record, though he might not be the starter as he would hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 LOL, I wouldn't be surprised if some team told Rosen to say something dumb so you'll drop and we'll pick you up LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) Just now, YoloinOhio said: As I was reading Robert Klemko’s full profile of Baker Mayfield’s pre-draft process, I believe he did indeed try to control where he was drafted. He mentions not studying the playbook for the Chargers and tanking the meeting because he had “a lot on his plate” (basically didn’t feel they were worth his time) and declining to interview with the Bears at the combine. Klemko says he didn’t want everyone to like him. The fact that Mayfield drew a line under the 5th team in draft order, saying he wouldn’t go after that, makes me wonder how he approached his Bills meeting. Given they were at 12, how aware was he they might trade up into the top 5? He went to Miami after he was in Buffalo - given the rumors he wanted to play there awhile back, did he focus more on that one even though they are currently at 11 (but are rumored to be in talks to trade up to 6)? Also, the big rumors about the Jets being locked in on him at 3 started emerging right after his visit three. Did he put everything he had into his jets visit, knocking it out of the park? Did he tank his visit to Cleveland, since one of their primary media members has a crusade against him and he’s already blocked him in twitter? I also saw it suggested that the reason Lamar Jackson didn’t use an agent was so he could control where he went. Perhaps he only wanted to visit and work out for certain teams. Could this be why he is the only 1st rd QB who didn’t visit with Buffalo? He could have had no interest being here. But even if so, it may have been mutual. My guess is that Buffalo just doesn't want a mobile QB like that. IMO everything they've done so far suggests they want more of a pocket passer. The QBs they've brought in - Peterman and Maccarron are both pocket passers. They were linked to Sam Bradford in free agency. They brought in Daboll who will run the EP offense and has favored pocket passers in his NFL career. They got rid of Tyrod even after making the playoffs with him. Almost brought in Brian Hoyer last year. We heard rumors of McD liking Trubisky last draft (and rumors of that being the only QB they were interested in drafting, and they did pass on both Mahomes and Watson who were sitting there for the taking). But I guess we will see next Thursday! I think you are right about Mayfield btw. Edited April 19, 2018 by BillsFan4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 he did fine with Mariucci and Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 4:06 PM, Marv's Neighbor said: Gotta be the Russians again! Ha, I was thinking somewhere along the lines of saying that these guys aren’t KGB agents. Lets not give them too much credit for crafty intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 12:22 PM, YoloinOhio said: I was thinking that there is very little that draft prospects can control during the process. Of course they all want to go as high as possible but the film is in the bag. They trained for the upcoming combine and the workouts can help/hurt them to some degree. But one of the biggest variables that comes out of the combine other than medicals are the team interviews. Take the QBs- they will interview with a ton of teams, some of which they may not want to go to. When a normal person is in the job market, they get to decide who they want to interview with based on where they want to work. If you are a prospect who wants to have some control over where you play the next 4-5 years before you can “decide” in FA, can’t you purposely blow the interview with a team like the Browns or (gulp - Bills) if you don’t want to go there? Not act like a total jerk or say anything outlandish that could get leaked/reported but just say some things that you think could be looked at as negative by that team ... like if you know the Bills are all about “process” so you purposely give an example of how you are more dialed in on Gameday but the week leading up to it you don’t need to focus as much. Or stumble over questions about preparation and leadership. Then when you interview with the teams you want to play for you knock it out of the park. I feel like it wouldn’t be too hard to figure out what each team wants to hear. For the pre-draft visits.... same thing. They pretty much can’t choose whether or not to go if invited, but could certainly choose to portray themselves a certain way. It's a very dangerous game. People talk. It's claimed that Leaf manipulated the process to avoid being drafted by the Colts. Here's what Polian has to say on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I was just thinking about this yesterday and was going to post something. At the senior bowl I think it was the Bears scout that came up to him and he was like no thanks I don't want to talk to the Bears, didn't you just draft Trubisky? I think him and Rosen would be ballsy enough to botch certain interviews on purpose. I know they would both like to be in NY or Denver and that is where they are slotted to go. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Why would Baker waste time interviewing with the Bears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 If a player doesn’t want to play for a particular team, why can’t he say no to a pre-draft workout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Maybe Lamar Jackson has purposefully botched all his stuff. Terrible wonderlic. Looked bad at his pro day. Teams not able to get ahold of him for interviews. Maybe a team at the end of the first told him they want him so he is trying to slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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