What happened to Derek Carr?

[billsfan_34]

101 qb rating when he has a nice clean pocket

 

48 passer rating when under pressure

 

there ya have it

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

Two things come to mind with Carr because I have thought the same thing that he was the next great thing:

 

1. Line play has regressed this year. They had a stat last night that in a clean pocket he has a like a 100 QB rating and with pressure its like 60% or lower. Last year the Raiders line dominated and was great, this year it has been an issue.

 

2. Knee Injury PTSD. Some guys can have injuries and comeback without missing a beat. Others our change for a bit, other for good. Watching Carr this year he has been far more skittish in the pocket and mentally he is just not reading the field the way he did last year. He still is a young QB and in general young QBs need to learn how to deal with pressure and hold in the pocket something he wasn't great at before injury. Mix in the fact he still is probably relearning his throws since injury and his mind looks to be a mess and yea he has sucked big time.

 

-On a smaller note Oakland has played a far tougher schedule this year. Last year they had bad JAX, TB, HOU, middling NO, middling BAL, bad IND, & a regressed SD team. This year's schedule has had far less guarantees and the one's they should've won like BUF, DEN, & WSH they didn't. In general OAK has just been a major dissapointment

 

Except the stats don't agree with your opinion...he has been hurried the 2nd least in the NFL this year and his line is on pace to give up fewer hurries and pressures than last year.

[CEN-CAL17]

New OC, I would prefer Latavius Murray over Lynch, Crabtree is having a down year, Cooper hasn't done anything, and Jared Cook hasn't done anything.  To be honest their OLine has regressed as well.

 

Its just a bad season all around....

[Beast]

Too much mascara. He looks like a whore.

[Scott7975]

Carr is still the same Carr. Difference is takeaways and not winning last minute games like last season. 

 

This is why I laugh when people say all you need is a QB. True that it is the most important piece but you need a team. Maybe 2 or 3 QBs can truly carry a team. No one is carrying a bad team. Not even Brady. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Scott7975

[SWATeam]

What are you talking about?  Carr is great and my Sunday's are so much better now since the Raiders are better than the Bills.

 

Signed,

 

Chef Jim

[K-9]

The weight of heavier expectations. Next season is the crossroads for his career. It’s all about how he responds. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Their real franchise qb is on the bench. Free EJ!!!

 

and Carr has always been a dink and dunker but he would hit big throws. Now, they don't really take deep shots and I don't know what happened to Cooper and Crabtree. Combine that with a crappy D, it puts that much more on Carr.

[Bing Bong]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The line has been significantly worse than last year, the play calling has as well.... but Derek Carr has been bad in too many games.  I think there might be a mental hangover from the injury.  Physically he looks fine but he is seeing ghosts... he is suddenly very skittish in the pocket and the ball isn't coming out as quickly unless it is a quick hitter to a back or tight end.  He seems to have lost his confidence standing in there and throwing down the field.  

he's had some rough injuries since the end of last year. Quarterbacks have bad years, I expect him to rebound at some point. I thought Bortles was given a bad rap after his horrible year last year as well. Look at Dak this year, he's basically been Tyrod (who's had his worst career year as well IMO).

 

It's a combination of injuries, talent surrounding quarterbacks, and just having your head in the right place. Quarterback has to be one of the toughest jobs in team sports mentally. I've always had a preference for veterans who have at least shown they can play at that kind of pressure for a year or two, than throwing in an unproven rookie mid year to see what sticks.

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

he's had some rough injuries since the end of last year. Quarterbacks have bad years, I expect him to rebound at some point. I thought Bortles was given a bad rap after his horrible year last year as well. Look at Dak this year, he's basically been Tyrod (who's had his worst career year as well IMO).

 

It's a combination of injuries, talent surrounding quarterbacks, and just having your head in the right place. Quarterback has to be one of the toughest jobs in team sports mentally. I've always had a preference for veterans who have at least shown they can play at that kind of pressure for a year or two, than throwing in an unproven rookie mid year to see what sticks.

I rarely  watch the Jags play but I feel like Bortles is benefiting from not always having to play from behind anymore. I still think he’s relatively mediocre but he’s certainly capable of winning in the playoffs with that defense and running game. When the rest of his team was bad it was all on his shoulders and he’s not good enough for that. OTOH I had thought Carr was in the second category and he could will his team to victory no matter what, like Russ (except yesterday), Rodgers, Ben, Brady etc - not looking that way.

Edited December 18, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I rarely  watch the Jags play but I feel like Bortles is benefiting from not always having to play from behind anymore. I still think he’s relatively mediocre but he’s certainly capable of winning in the playoffs with that defense and running game. When the rest of his team was bad it was all on his shoulders and he’s not good enough for that. 

I agree with all that. I just think we forgot about his performance 2 years ago. We can gripe about garbage time statistics, but how can you take that away from him? 35 TDs, 4500 yards, put him on a team where he's not carrying the load and he's good enough. There's probably 15-20 quarterbacks that can do that with a team like the Jags, why do some here insist that's a bad way to build a football team? Dak, Carr, Bortles, Tyrod would all bounce back with a team like that.

[Misterbluesky]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I also wonder after he got that huge contract - will they be able to pay both Cooper and Mack? Both will want to break the bank.

With kyle calling it a day and Glenn most likely getting the boot?...I wonder we could afford Mack..he loves buffalo.

[YoloinOhio]

16 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

With kyle calling it a day and Glenn most likely getting the boot?...I wonder we could afford Mack..he loves buffalo.

Would be epic 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Would be epic 

 

...Raiders already picked up his 5th year option at $13.8 mil for 2018.............

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...Raiders already picked up his 5th year option at $13.8 mil for 2018.............

We are talking beyond the 5th year, he will need to be signed at some point to an enormous Von Miller type deal . 

[rodneykm]

Even an elite QB will be exposed more often than not behind a weak offensive line. A strong offensive line, in my opinion, can make an average QB look extremely solid. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

@Chef Jim started rooting for him.

Sorry, derek.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

We are talking beyond the 5th year, he will need to be signed at some point to an enormous Von Miller type deal . 

 

...my apology.......thought it was 2018.........Von money would be the minimum.....at least you have until FA 2019 to get cap in order, draft wise in 2018 with potentially starters at reasonable rook money as well as knowing 2019 draft position...so the stars COULD align............

Edited December 18, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Kelly the Dog]

There are only 2-3 great franchise quarterbacks on planet earth. It's an extremely hard position to play well for an entire season, and way harder than that to be consistent. There are only about 4-5 other players that are consistently good. There are 4-5 that people call franchise QBs but it's all based on potential or draft slot or one great season.

 

This just in, being a real "franchise QB" for a few seasons in a row let alone several doesn't happen all that much. And you need to have very good receivers, a very good line, the ability for your team to run, and very good coaching all at the same time.

[Fadingpain]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I thought he was going to be the next great franchise QB in the league. Looked like a superstar in the making. This year he’s been pretty bad. Can’t blame the offensive talent around him. Raiders spent heavy on OL, brought in Lynch, jared Cook, Coradalle Patterson in addition to Cooper and Crabtree. Their defense has been less than strong but the great QBs should overcome that. There are games where he’s been a liability. What happened? Coaching? Or he’s just not that good?

Regressing to the mean.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There are only 2-3 great franchise quarterbacks on planet earth. It's an extremely hard position to play well for an entire season, and way harder than that to be consistent. There are only about 4-5 other players that are consistently good. There are 4-5 that people call franchise QBs but it's all based on potential or draft slot or one great season.

 

This just in, being a real "franchise QB" for a few seasons in a row let alone several doesn't happen all that much. And you need to have very good receivers, a very good line, the ability for your team to run, and very good coaching all at the same time.

 

....other than these few minor points, we should be in pretty good shape..............

[K-9]

24 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There are only 2-3 great franchise quarterbacks on planet earth. It's an extremely hard position to play well for an entire season, and way harder than that to be consistent. There are only about 4-5 other players that are consistently good. There are 4-5 that people call franchise QBs but it's all based on potential or draft slot or one great season.

 

This just in, being a real "franchise QB" for a few seasons in a row let alone several doesn't happen all that much. And you need to have very good receivers, a very good line, the ability for your team to run, and very good coaching all at the same time.

Good points, all. And even when you acquire all that surrounding talent and a great coaching staff, it’s STILL no guarantee of success. Every individual in the cog needs to have his own internal drivers to put in what it takes to maximize and realize their potential individually and collectively. That’s what truly separates players and teams. 

[prissythecat]

 The regression to mean argument may very be the most valid assessment of what’s going on with Carr..They should give EJ a shot  

[aristocrat]

last year they had 6 games 3 points or less and won all of them(i included their ot win which they won with a td).  This year they only had 4 games 3 points or less and went 2-2. They have 6 wins and a shot at 8 wins and they had a loss cause ej had to play a game. 

[Gordio]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 11:11 AM, CLTbills said:

But remember, most people on this board think this "drafting a QB" thing is SO easy!

 

 

Exaggerate much???  No one has ever said that.  What people have blamed the Bills for is not even trying to address the QB situation.  You got to take a chance to win the lottery.   

[BuffaloHokie13]

Cooper also had a start to the year that rivaled Zay's. Doesn't explain bad play now, but he was not helping Carr to start the year.

[racketmaster]

Carr has had 1 really good year (actually 12 games) out of 4 years. Maybe last year was the outlier. Still a solid player but I never believed the hype that he was an elite qb. 

[dave mcbride]

I think he's still good; he's just having a down season and a bunch of it stems from the team. Amari Cooper has been a black hole (no pun intended) this season too. So many drops. This is a guy who is supposed to be a Julio Jones-type player.

[Bills757]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Exaggerate much???  No one has ever said that.  What people have blamed the Bills for is not even trying to address the QB situation.  You got to take a chance to win the lottery.   

I think what he's saying is that too many on this board think drafting a franchise QB is like going down to Walmart to pick up an item.  It just doesn't work that way.  So many top QB draft picks have been busts in recent years.  Drafting a great QB when you have a porous Oline is almost pointless (if Oline isn't being addressed as well) and a bad way to protect such a huge investment.  

[Rob's House]

It's fair to wonder if the Denver game in week 3 had an effect. That's the one where the O-line was alleged to have purposely let him take a beating. Whether that's true or not, he did get hammered in that game and hasn't looked the same since.

 

The previous 2 years he averaged ~ 4000 yds with 30:10 TD:INT.

 

The first two weeks he averaged 8.2 ypa with 5:0 TD:INT.

 

Whatever the case, I think there's more to it than just regression.

[Mark Vader]

On 12/18/2017 at 11:59 AM, Misterbluesky said:

With kyle calling it a day and Glenn most likely getting the boot?...I wonder we could afford Mack..he loves buffalo.

 

On 12/18/2017 at 12:15 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Would be epic 

 

On 12/18/2017 at 12:30 PM, YoloinOhio said:

We are talking beyond the 5th year, he will need to be signed at some point to an enormous Von Miller type deal . 

That would be amazing. Yet I cannot see the Raiders letting Mack walk.

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 12/18/2017 at 10:49 AM, aristocrat said:

 

they lost gareon conley pretty much in training camp...who was picked ahead of tre white. their second round pick played very little as well. so right there 2 starting dbs is huge. we have been pretty healthy this year. 

Whatever happened to the charges against Conley? Seemed like a big thing just prior to the draft and then just faded away.

[SaviorPeterman]

Both Carr and Winston were expected to make big strides this year which is why the pundits and experts picked both the Raiders and Bucs as SB contenders this year. Also same reason the Bills schedule was brutal on paper heading into 2017.

 

But in the end it just goes to show that nothing is guaranteed in this league. And while I think both will rebound and have better seasons next year, it goes to show how the bills have their work cut out for them even if they make some sort of blockbuster deal to land a top 5 draft pick and take a QB.

[JimKellyTryouts]

Raiders probably have the worst HC/OC/DC combo - friends of mine that are fans are wanting Del Rio fired, and have preached it for months. I was thinking the difference between him in winning in Oakland and bottoming out in Jacksonville was the presence of a franchise QB, but Carr just looks like one of the most overpaid players in the league right now. They let a successful Bill Musgrave go because they thought our ol' QB coach Todd Downing was a rising OC candidate, so they promoted him and it looks like a total failure. As for defense, it's inexplicably sucked for the past several years even though Ken Norton was a very good on-paper hire from Seattle years ago. 

 

It's been a weird tenure for Reggie McKenzie - he's definitely hit on several draft picks, but Dennis Allen and Del Rio were both very bad hires. Yet another high draft pick to go with the QB, pro-bowl filled OL, passing weapons, and a defense that can be righted by proper coaching should keep them in good shape though. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by JimKellyTryouts

[Chef Jim]

On 12/18/2017 at 12:34 PM, joesixpack said:

@Chef Jim started rooting for him.

Sorry, derek.

 

 

If this was the reason the Bills would have won the Super Bowl the last three years and headed to 19-0 this year.  

[YoloinOhio]