Re-Sign Jordan Matthews?

[simpleman]

He has yet to prove he deserves the Woods type money he will require. And he has not yet performed even at the level of Woods for the Bills. I give him the rest of the year to prove it.

Everyone is penciling in Zay as a top 3, he has not proven he belongs there. I am not calling him a bust or saying release him, I'm just saying he has not proven he deserves to be in the top 3. I again give him the rest of the year to prove something.

Benjamin has not played one game yet for the Bills. Let us see what he brings to the Bills when he gets on the field.

Beyond them there is no one who has proven they are much more than depth. So far Thompson has had one decent game. I see the WR position as far from set at this point. Ask me again after Christmas.

 I would release Holmes in a heartbeat for a 3rd round pick. The deadline for that is approaching, is it not?

Edited November 8, 2017 by simpleman

[Billsfansinceday1]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Depends what he asks for. 

Exactly right.  He has been very dependable but he has to be reasonably priced.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, simpleman said:

 

 I would release Holmes in a heartbeat for a 3rd round pick. The deadline for that is approaching, is it not?

 

Yes it's this week.  But the Bills don't just have to release Holmes.... it would have to be Holmes, Davies and some combo of Leonard Johnson, Vlad Ducasse and Patrick DiMarco.  Ain't happening.  

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The first one, definitely.  The second one I highly doubt as well.

 

Extremely productive young WR. That runs very good routes and has been more productive than Robert Woods so will get more than Woods 

2 minutes ago, simpleman said:

He has yet to prove he deserves the Woods type money he will require. And he has not yet performed even at the level of Woods for the Bills. I give him the rest of the year to prove it.

Everyone is penciling in Zay as a top 3, he has not proven he belongs there. I am not calling him a bust or saying release him, I'm just saying he has not proven he deserves to be in the top 3. I again give him the rest of the year to prove something.

Benjamin has not played one game yet or the Bills. Let us see what he brings to the Bills when he gets on the field.

Beyond them there is no one who has proven they are much more than depth. So far Thompson has had one decent game. I see the WR position as far from set at this point. Ask me again after Christmas.

 I would release Holmes in a heartbeat for a 3rd round pick. The deadline for that is approaching, is it not?

 

What are tou talking about. Go look at his numbers from Philly and tell me he hasnt proven he is worth Robert Woods money lol

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes it's this week.  But the Bills don't just have to release Holmes.... it would have to be Holmes, Davies and some combo of Leonard Johnson, Vlad Ducasse and Patrick DiMarco.  Ain't happening.  

 

Can release them all Holmes Ducasse (no one will claim him)

 

and Davis a rotational guy that you can sign right back if he clears waiver and then you get the 3rd 

[simpleman]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Extremely productive young WR. That runs very good routes and has been more productive than Robert Woods so will get more than Woods 

 

What are tou talking about. Go look at his numbers from Philly and tell me he hasnt proven he is worth Robert Woods money lol

I don't deal in the past under other different circumstances. It does not matter what he did in the past. Would you judge the value of Hughes to the Bills based on his past with his previous team. Performance can go either way after a trade. Look at Dareus's record over his first contract with the Bills. Then compare his record the past two years. How about the Bills re-signing Fitz to a big contract too soon. It is better to wait. I don't deal in hope and dreams, I deal in the performance in the now. Let him prove it with the Bills before you jump too soon.

[MAJBobby]

 

 

I also think the Benjamin Trade kills at Matthews deal. I dont see the Bills putting two 8M WRs on the roster next year. 

 

Benjamin also will help a young QB more going forward because of his catch radiius and such. 

Just now, simpleman said:

I don't deal in the past under other different circumstances. It does not matter what he did in the past. Would you judge the value of Hughes to the Bills based on his past with his previous team. Performance can go either way after a trade. Look at Dareus's record over his first contract with the Bills. Then compare his record the past two years. How about the Bills re-signing Fitz to a big contract too soon. It is better to wait. I don't deal in hope and dreams, I deal in the performance in the now. Let him prove it with the Bills before you jump too soon.

 

The Market will. You think they are going to base his value off this year on a Offense that took 8 weeks to get WRs heavily involved and a run first ultra conservative team or do do you think they will look at his 240 plus catches 2900 yards and 20 TDs his first 3 yeRs. 

 

He will get 8-10 on the open market so he is not taking less to play in Buffalo. 

 

So again i said he walks because Bills will not pay his market value 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Can release them all Holmes Ducasse (no one will claim him)

 

and Davis a rotational guy that you can sign right back if he clears waiver and then you get the 3rd 

 

As bad as I think Vlad Ducasse is there is no way he would go unclaimed.  The standard of o-lines around the league might be at an all time low and the standard of o-line depth around the league is frankly comical.  He would be claimed as depth somewhere.  

 

They are not cutting a starting guard.  If Miller was still the starter this might have a chance of happening.  

[MAJBobby]

I think the only on they try and re-sign off their bring in off trades is EJ Gaines. 

 

And that is going to really be a difficult value to put in it. He is very productive in this system when healthy. But that is the issue is health. 

 

I would think though is is going to be still at least a 5M AVV on his new deal. Maybe work in some INJ Protections like tie the guaranteed money in future to playing time. 

[simpleman]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

I also think the Benjamin Trade kills at Matthews deal. I dont see the Bills putting two 8M WRs on the roster next year. 

 

Benjamin also will help a young QB more going forward because of his catch radiius and such. 

 

The Market will. You think they are going to base his value off this year on a Offense that took 8 weeks to get WRs heavily involved and a run first ultra conservative team or do do you think they will look at his 240 plus catches 2900 yards and 20 TDs his first 3 yeRs. 

 

He will get 8-10 on the open market so he is not taking less to play in Buffalo. 

 

So again i said he walks because Bills will not pay his market value 

We will see. I am not arguing with you. I am saying the logical move is to wait till the end of the season and evaluate each the players based on their performance with this team and their  value to the team. If it is not worth it, move on. Let the season play out as it does, just don't rush into premature judgements.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

As bad as I think Vlad Ducasse is there is no way he would go unclaimed.  The standard of o-lines around the league might be at an all time low and the standard of o-line depth around the league is frankly comical.  He would be claimed as depth somewhere.  

 

They are not cutting a starting guard.  If Miller was still the starter this might have a chance of happening.  

 

The point is though there are better options already on this team with Groy and Dawkins. But i know he wont get cut he is Juans boy. 

 

But to cut Ducasse, Holmes and Davis Doesnt hurt your playoff chances anymore than Trading Dareus did and you get a much better draft pick for it over what you got from Dareus lol

Just now, simpleman said:

We will see. I am not arguing with you. I am saying the logical move is to wait till the end of the season and evaluate each the players based on their performance with this team and their  value to the team. If it is not worth it, move on. Let the season play out as it does, just don't rush into premature judgements.

 

Benjamin is on contract next year for 8M. 

Matthews is not. 

 

So knowing that I doubt very highly doubt the Bills tie 16M into WR position when we currently do not feature the WR. Ooo and you have a Zay as well (starting to come into his own). 

 

Then add Clay and Shady Not enough Balls to go around 

 

matthews will take his 8-10M contract he will get to another team

[simpleman]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

 

 

But to cut Ducasse, Holmes and Davis Doesnt hurt your playoff chances anymore than Trading Dareus did and you get a much better draft pick for it over what you got from Dareus lol

Watch it. The "process" believers here don't like logical statements that point out the inconsistency and faults in the thinking behind the mythical,  almighty "process".

[MAJBobby]

Just now, simpleman said:

Watch it. The "process" believers here don't like logical statements that point out the inconsistency and faults in the thinking behind the mythical,  almighty "process".

 

Dont worry I am used to it. There is a very select group here that dont allow any negative (or what they take as negative) comments about the Bills or players 

[BillsFan130]

35 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Extremely productive young WR. That runs very good routes and has been more productive than Robert Woods so will get more than Woods 

 

I agree.

Robert woods career stats- 65 games, 234 receptions, 2902 yards, 14 TD

Matthews- 53 games- 246 receptions, 2912 yards, 20 TD.

 

Before looking at those stats I thought he would get more than Woods, and I think those stats pretty much confirm he will.

He has also been a number 1 receiver wherever he has gone, where woods has been the number 2.

The only thing Woods probably does better than him is blocking

[JPP]

Yup resign him

[boyst]

No way at all. As others have submitted. He isn't worth it

[thebandit27]

21 minutes ago, simpleman said:

Watch it. The "process" believers here don't like logical statements that point out the inconsistency and faults in the thinking behind the mythical,  almighty "process".

 

oh stop...people question the leadership on this team weekly.

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

I think Buffalo would need to get a pass first QB to warrant his signing.  If they got a guy like Luck, Cousins or drafted a guy then yes.  If we are staying with Tyrod, then no.  I like Tyrod but he's not passing the ball around the yard enough to bring in that many targets.  His two favorite targets are tight end and running back at this point.  

I don't completely disagree with your premise, but we all used to harp on TT because he didn't use his TE enough. When all the talent left Buffalo at WR, the plan was to get Shady more involved in the pas game. So now he is using both and we're not happy he isn't using his WRs more? I'd also like to see him with a little more time to throw before his pocket completely collapses. With decent protection, WRs may  become an option again. Especially KB. TT willl need to trust KB to make plays even if he isn't wide open. 

[BuffaloBill]

I would hope we sign him because if we don’t there is another need created against a long list.  Keep in mind the Bills are no longer a young team.   Lorax, K. Williams, Incognito are nearing the end of their playing careers by NFL age standards.  Woods is also not a member of the youth corps.  It is likely to take two or three more drafts to completely rebuilt the roster.

[Laughing Coffin]

Nope.  He’s not good enough to warrant tying up funds.  Sign KB to a deal, draft another WR, zay is your 2-3 guy.  

 

We we can replace Matthews production with a 2nd-3rd rounder or we might use a 1st in a WR 

[BillsfanAZ]

If Mathews will extend on a team friendly deal then I say yes. If he is looking for a good pay day then no. He is replaceable. The Bills will have a decision to make after this season. If they stay with Taylor and build around him or get a QB early in the draft while keeping Taylor only for next season. If they stay with Taylor then the Bills must use the draft or free agency to rebuild the right side of the Oline. They have to be thinking RB replacement in the next couple seasons. They have enough picks in the first couple rounds to go BPA while stilll addressing needs. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Get him at $5.5M/year and call it a day. Probably  not, but maybe given how down a year statistically he is having. 

[John from Riverside]

My concern with Matthews is the same as it is with Gaines...they are both very good players but get nicked up

 

I think we are going to see suprise cuts to players...I dont think money is going to be an issue

[Kirby Jackson]

I keep hearing “he’s a good player” but I am not sure. He fell to 4th on the Eagles depth chart and I’m not sure he’s better than that here. Is he good or was he relatively productive in an extremely friendly scheme in Philly? He doesn’t excel at anything.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

You could sign any free agent off the street, they would likely give you similar production to Matthews. This fact makes Matthews expendable. 

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I keep hearing “he’s a good player” but I am not sure. He fell to 4th on the Eagles depth chart and I’m not sure he’s better than that here. Is he good or was he relatively productive in an extremely friendly scheme in Philly? He doesn’t excel at anything.

Deonte Thompson had a bigger game than any Matthews has had this season. That tells me everything I need to know. 

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I keep hearing “he’s a good player” but I am not sure. He fell to 4th on the Eagles depth chart and I’m not sure he’s better than that here. Is he good or was he relatively productive in an extremely friendly scheme in Philly? He doesn’t excel at anything.

I would put him at Robert Woods level

 

I still think that players that can get behind the defense are missed in this offense....Tyrod's deep ball is gone

[Kelly the Dog]

No. 

 

KB

Zay

Re-sign Thompson

Holmes

Mike Wallace-type

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I would put him at Robert Woods level

 

I still think that players that can get behind the defense are missed in this offense....Tyrod's deep ball is gone

No surprise Deonte Thompson is putting up the best numbers of our WRs. Tyrod is a deep ball thrower. I actually think Benjamin, Zay, and Thompson is a good top 3. Draft a speed guy in the 3rd or 4th next year. 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

12 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I would put him at Robert Woods level

 

I still think that players that can get behind the defense are missed in this offense....Tyrod's deep ball is gone

I don’t think the comparison to Woods is too far off, but I do think there are some key  differences betweeen the two. I’d prefer Woods to Matthews. Woods seems to have more playmaking ability than Matthews. I never get the feeling that Matthews is going to break a big play.  Woods has always had big play potential, along with the occasional game where he’d put up big numbers. Matthews doesn’t have the ability to change a game,  Woods was occasionally able to do so. Matthews could put up huge numbers as a slot receiver in a high powered offense. Aside from that scenario, he offers very little. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, Billsfansinceday1 said:

Exactly right.  He has been very dependable but he has to be reasonably priced.  

 

He has?  He has missed a bunch of games due to injury and committed a terrible fumble in one of his rare appearances.

[WMDman]

For what ever reason I️ see him taking a team friendly deal to stay....I️ just have a gut feeling 

[Starr Almighty]

He's a little slow for my liking I'd like to see whats out there 1st if theirs nobody better than I'd resign him

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Before the Kelvin Benjamin trade I thought he'd be resigned and now I think we'll let him sign elsewhere for reasons others have stated, Zay Jones is in the same mold as Matthews and will be alot cheaper for now anyways. Beane traded picks for Benjamin who's still in his prime so he obviously thought Benjamin could be the difference maker.

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He has?  He has missed a bunch of games due to injury and committed a terrible fumble in one of his rare appearances.

 

I was a fan until that fumble.  Oy.

[MTBill]

I think it's too early to tell.  We are now heading into the tough stretch of the schedule.

 

I fully expect McBean & staff are doing their evaluations now - and if they want someone, they are going to burn up the cap space we have this year to extend players they want.  But if we're laying more eggs, I do not expect to see a whole lot of extensions...

 

This season has seemed to me like a waiting to get to this point.  With all the injuries and still acclimating to the offense, now it's time for some of these players to show off

 

I withhold judgement on the roster moves now.  I think we'll see extensions by the end of the year for players they want now and into the future.  Why else would they clear some cap space by jettisoning Dareus?  If the team/offense is performing - I would expect to see TT/Matthews/Benjamin extended/reworked.  I also expect we'll see movement with other positions.  I don't know about Shady's deal at all - so don't know if his contract would also be looked at.

 

 

 

[ThunderGun]

People still think $6-$8 Mil is a big amount against the cap?  Plus with the way contracts can be structured and re-structured... Yes, keep him if he falls into that price range.  I feel he is a little better than Woods, but the injuries(on top of being a late acquisition) really cost him valuable timing in building chemistry/timing with Tyrod.  

 

If he isn't re-signed, not the end of the world, but at some point we should have a decent WR group here in Buffalo.  

Edited November 8, 2017 by ThunderGun

[Billsfansinceday1]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

He has?  He has missed a bunch of games due to injury and committed a terrible fumble in one of his rare appearances.

I obviously meant while on the field and I am pretty sure the injury contributed to the fumble.  We will have a half season of football at least to see how he pans out.  He runs good routes and catches the ball and I suspect that Benjamin will take off some pressure on the other receivers.

[blacklabel]

He certainly sounds like he wants to be here and be a part of this team and culture. He also comes across as exactly the type of player they want on the roster. He's a team guy, he's here to do his part and he's a good teammate. And I don't think he'll have a real high price tag. Plus he's just turned 25 over the summer, KB is 26 and Jones is 22. That's a solid group with two guys in prime years for athletes and another guy who would benefit greatly from having those two guys to work with.

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

KB is only "locked up" if the Bills choose to pay him $8mil next year.  I don't think that decision is made yet........I am guessing that B and MCD , however, won't pass on their "Carolina connection" guy.  (unfortunately just like Rex had a thing about former Jets on the team..any of those guys still around?)

The panthers picked up his option.  There is no decision to be made

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The panthers picked up his option.  There is no decision to be made

I'm not sure but it may only be guaranteed against injury. The Bills may be able to cut him. I doubt they would. 

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

No way at all. As others have submitted. He isn't worth it

at what price? Is not worth which IT ? 

he aint shown me much.

 But he might fit. Financially and structurally.

 I expect Bills need to scour for upgrades at WR this draft and FA.

Caveat for me is, the sternum injury was said to be a season long thing and all about pain management.
Thats does not mean he is not limited physically still.

 

Trust the Bills on this one.

 I think he should be vying for a 3-4 WR unless he his ceiling is rising.

 I bet he will be evaluating the Market if a Bills offer sheet comes in