Freddie's Dead Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 After hearing Donald Jones explain the play, I put it now more on Zay. Zay needed to break it high and he cut it short. You need to change your profile pic to Samuel L and John Travolta in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 After hearing Donald Jones explain the play, I put it now more on Zay. Zay needed to break it high and he cut it short. Yep. Tyrod anticipated that he'd do just that. Exactly why the players in the locker room made the comments they did saying that Jones would get past the mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Yep. Tyrod anticipated that he'd do just that. Exactly why the players in the locker room made the comments they did saying that Jones would get past the mistake. But but but...Tyrod sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 After hearing Donald Jones explain the play, I put it now more on Zay. Zay needed to break it high and he cut it short. Makes sense. Still, the offense was pathetic yesterday and it needs to be better going forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Donald Jones just explained that based on the safety's positioning, Zay Jones was supposed to "stay high" (go to back pylon), but instead, Zay "went flat" (towards the sideline). So supposably TT threw the ball to where Zay "should" have been (remember Fitz's INT when TJ ran the wrong route?). So Donald Jones lays it at Zay's feet, but I still hate Tie-rod!! this is very true. receivers have a tendency on slants and posts to cut it back in instead of staying high. once you beat a defender to the inside or outside you want to press him and get good body position. if the QB throws it short then you have tons of room to break it off if needed. as a receiver you feel like i need to get away from this defender but thats actually not what you want to do on the pattern itself, give the QB the room to make the throw to the open field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 TT having a subpar game overall yesterday (along with many others on O) AND TT making a perfect throw on the last play (not really debatable) CAN (and do) both exist in the same game people. I know it's crazy to conceptualize but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 So in other words, it was a perfect pass that should have been a game winning, length of the field, two minute drive - something Tyrod cannot do because he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 So in other words, it was a perfect pass that should have been a game winning, length of the field, two minute drive - something Tyrod cannot do because he sucks. You got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 So in other words, it was a perfect pass that should have been a game winning, length of the field, two minute drive - something Tyrod cannot do because he sucks. Yes exactly. But haters here will still blame Tyrod for that forever regardless of what anybody says. Because you can't fix stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 To be fair, the O had a great game, dominant against the Jets, Terrible game plan,but I really think our leadership and Dennison learn from this and bounce back nicely versus Denver. The O was dominant scoring 21 vs the pathetic NYJ? Take a look at what a real offense did to them yesterday. And you think the Bills will somehow bounce back nicely vs a much better all around performing DEN team? What has this offense done so far to indicate such a performance against the Broncos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 But but but...Tyrod sucks. He played very well yesterday. I was proud of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Makes sense. Still, the offense was pathetic yesterday and it needs to be better going forwardAnd I believe it will versus a very formidable D.. Dennison knows how to attack that Defense, I expect a similar game plan as @Sea last year, where with this defense, should be a big win.. More option, more outside, creative running,open up PA and that's how you attack that D. Shady will be a huge factor, this is a great learning experience for this O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Yep. Tyrod anticipated that he'd do just that. Exactly why the players in the locker room made the comments they did saying that Jones would get past the mistake. This is exactly what I determined after watching the play several times in the Zay thread. Some did not agree and stuck to their guns blaming TT. I initially blamed Taylor, but quickly changed my thoughts after rewatching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 So in other words, it was a perfect pass that should have been a game winning, length of the field, two minute drive - something Tyrod cannot do because he sucks. Shoulda been yep. It's amazing how teammates factor into each-others outcomes in football, yet we (well not me lol) think measuring things like the "Record" of a QB has meaning on it's own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Makes sense. Still, the offense was pathetic yesterday and it needs to be better going forward The 59 minutes and 46 seconds prior to that play was atrocious. Hitting the last play would still have been a terrible day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This is exactly what I determined after watching the play several times in the Zay thread. Some did not agree and stuck to their guns blaming TT. I initially blamed Taylor, but quickly changed my thoughts after rewatching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 After hearing Donald Jones explain the play, I put it now more on Zay. Zay needed to break it high and he cut it short. Ha another receiver who puts it more on Zay. Makes you appreciate how much us fans miss when watching the game. Some of the All-22 "experts" on Twitter were still putting this throw on Tyrod. These same people will claim they see wide open receivers running all over the field. Now we know not to trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Ha another receiver who puts it more on Zay. Makes you appreciate how much us fans miss when watching the game. Some of the All-22 "experts" on Twitter were still putting this throw on Tyrod. These same people will claim they see wide open receivers running all over the field. Now we know not to trust them. Regardless... we still were pathetic passing yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The O was dominant scoring 21 vs the pathetic NYJ? Take a look at what a real offense did to them yesterday. And you think the Bills will somehow bounce back nicely vs a much better all around performing DEN team? What has this offense done so far to indicate such a performance against the Broncos?Not necessarily by score,though it should have been a 31 12 final , Bills dominated in every aspect besides scoring in week 1.The offense has been a top 10 and 12 scoring unit, so I expect a big bounce back W. Dennison knows how to attack Denver, they don't have anywhere near the front 7 Carolina has, great pass rushing but I already said, expect our O to attack them like we did Seattle last year, with a potentially great defense, we get the home win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Wasnt that route supposed to go to the back pylon in a straight line from the break? Zay ran the in version to perfection imo and Taylor threw the ball to the wrong spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The 59 minutes and 46 seconds prior to that play was atrocious. Hitting the last play would still have been a terrible day.No. It would have been a win and a 2-0 start. McD and Dennison coached ultra conservatively, trying to steal a win against a tough opponent on the road. That was one of the reasons the offense didn't excite. They had the play that would win it and we didn't execute. However horrid that phrase is to hear these days as a Bills fan, it's exactly what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Ha another receiver who puts it more on Zay. Makes you appreciate how much us fans miss when watching the game. Some of the All-22 "experts" on Twitter were still putting this throw on Tyrod. These same people will claim they see wide open receivers running all over the field. Now we know not to trust them. It's no different than PFF trying to "grade" an O-lineman. It's literally an impossible job without inside knowledge. They can make assumptions and get close, but it's not always going to be accurate. Kelly the Dog makes some other good points somewhere too about film watching... Some pass plays have designed targets regardless of the availability of other receivers on the play, for various reasons. Or when guys "come open" on film after the QB is already winding up to pass somewhere else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 My opinion on this ridiculously long thread: There are questions in my mind as to how well or poorly that route was run. Its unquestioble that Zay partially ran into the defender possibly altering the time and direction of that route. That being said, the ball was in a spot where he was still able to put both hands on it without a defender in coverage. I would like the WR to make that catch. Make a play. In the same game we saw how a running back (mcCaffrey) jumped over his defender and snagged the ball to make a play for his QB and get a big 1st down on what I consider a tougher catch. And hes a RB. As a WR Zay shouldve had that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 No. It would have been a win and a 2-0 start. McD and Dennison coached ultra conservatively, trying to steal a win against a tough opponent on the road. That was one of the reasons the offense didn't excite. They had the play that would win it and we didn't execute. However horrid that phrase is to hear these days as a Bills fan, it's exactly what happened. Wouldn't it be fun to have a coach who actually tries to build a dominant team instead of one who tries to just "not lose" too badly so we might still be in it at the end of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 So in other words, it was a perfect pass that should have been a game winning, length of the field, two minute drive - something Tyrod cannot do because he sucks. I think at least 80% of Bills fans believe it is Tyrod's fault, and probably over half of those would stick to their opinion even if you showed them the comments from the professionals. That's how the average fan thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 brady quinn and the other host, (not sure who) were just talking about this on sirius. they both felt that zay needed to come down with that ball, as hard of a catch as it was. not sure what this means to anyone, but i just thought i'd put it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This is a lot of blame and pressure to heap on a rookie This stuff is going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 My two cents: Zay Jones is so good - he managed to get two hands on that ball! Just because a receiver managed to get two hands on a ball doesnt make it catchable. Receiver did all he could. A slightly better thrown ball and we would all be celebrating. From where I sit: All on Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Zay ran the in version to perfection imo and Taylor threw the ball to the wrong spot. it's more about where the defenders are and there's a window Tyrod will throw to in a zone coverage. they wanted Zay to press the safety and then that gives Tyrod a bigger window to deliver the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Tyrod hits him in stride and he's walking in for the game winner. Major breakdown by the Panthers and Tyrod couldn't take advantage. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This is a lot of blame and pressure to heap on a rookie This stuff is going to happen this is where i'm at with it. it certainly wasn't a stevie johnson against pitt type drop here, (not piling on stevie). it was a very tough catch, and i would have been amazed that he brought it down. if he made the mistake on a route, i just assume this is something that he'll improve on. it's been 2 games for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 here you go, i hope you like my art skills. red is what Zay should have ran and yellow is what he ran. if he presses the safety look how much more room he gives Tyrod to deliver the ball. by cutting it off he shortens the area between the defenders and either one could realistically make the play. by pressing the safety high he has a ton of room if Tyrod throws the ball a little short not to mention it's much easier to make a catch coming back to the ball than it is falling away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 No. It would have been a win and a 2-0 start. McD and Dennison coached ultra conservatively, trying to steal a win against a tough opponent on the road. That was one of the reasons the offense didn't excite. They had the play that would win it and we didn't execute. However horrid that phrase is to hear these days as a Bills fan, it's exactly what happened. The pass complete does not make the inept offensive play before irrelevant. It still shows that we are a one dimensional offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 My two cents: Zay Jones is so good - he managed to get two hands on that ball! Just because a receiver managed to get two hands on a ball doesnt make it catchable. Receiver did all he could. A slightly better thrown ball and we would all be celebrating. From where I sit: All on Tyrod. you entirely disregarded/ or missed why the ball was placed where it was and why ZJ shouldn't have had to struggle with it, but ok. I agree that Zay is VERY talented and am hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Not necessarily by score,though it should have been a 31 12 final , Bills dominated in every aspect besides scoring in week 1. The offense has been a top 10 and 12 scoring unit, so I expect a big bounce back W. Dennison knows how to attack Denver, they don't have anywhere near the front 7 Carolina has, great pass rushing but I already said, expect our O to attack them like we did Seattle last year, with a potentially great defense, we get the home win. Has been is the key phrase. In case you haven't noticed , the Bills are not running the Greg Roman offense. It's a whole new ballgame, and it's not looking good this year. The job of the O is to score points, regardless of how many yards it takes to do so. A good offense would have wiped the floor with the NYJ. here you go, i hope you like my art skills. red is what Zay should have ran and yellow is what he ran. if he presses the safety look how much more room he gives Tyrod to deliver the ball. by cutting it off he shortens the area between the defenders and either one could realistically make the play. by pressing the safety high he has a ton of room if Tyrod throws the ball a little short not to mention it's much easier to make a catch coming back to the ball than it is falling away That's correct. And precisely the type of thing one might expect when depending on a first year WR instead of having say, Watkins running that route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 But but but...Tyrod sucks. He does suck but that's a catchable ball and even with the route Zay took he needs to bring it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 @buffalobills "It takes more than one guy to win a game. We're going to get that chance again and I hope it's Zay because I know he'll make that play." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 @buffalobills "It takes more than one guy to win a game. We're going to get that chance again and I hope it's Zay because I know he'll make that play." Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Zay ran the in version to perfection imo and lTaylor threw the ball to the wrong spot. I will respectfully disagree about the route. Go back a few pages and watch the gif. He made his break at the arrow at the 20. If he was running to the back right pylon he would have been a lot further from the sideline Edited September 18, 2017 by Tenhigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) How is this even a debate anymore? Everyone on the Bills is consoling ZJ...real NFL analysts know it was ZJ...the coaches are consoling ZJ...ZJ himself took responsibility...TT is consoling ZJ...former WR's are consoling ZJ...the only people blaming TT are the people here who revel in blaming TT for everything including the Presidential Election. MOST IMPORTANTLY...its 10000000% clear on the tape that ZJ ran a sloppy route slightly off balance and got slightly out of position when the ball was already in the air and then got his head around late to look for it. The ONLY...this is not even up for debate...ONLY reason it was a "tough" catch attempt was because ZJ's struggles on his own route and his late spotting of the ball. Anyone is free and clear to harshly judge the rest of the game, but geezus, put your agenda's aside and just accept the kid made a rookie unforced error and it cost us. I still feel he is going to be a good player, it happens. But we lost that game for a LOT of reasons, not just on the final play where we could have bailed ourselves out potentially. Edited September 18, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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