Wayne Cubed Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) I read the article and it said what I said, with a direct quote from Satan about it. We are arguing semantics though. I understand what you are saying. And as Coach Tuesday remarked, there are various definitions or understandings of "scheme," especially when it comes to Satan. I just think he has a distinct scheme and looks for guys that fit it. He had Walker and then drafted Edelman to play that role and when one of them was hurt looked for Amendola to do it. He drafts or signs these offensive linemen that fits his scheme that come out of nowhere and play well. He has Gronk and Hernandez and loses Hernandez and signs Bennett and loses Bennett and signs Allen. I agree with you in the offensive side of the ball, for sure. I think that has more to do with Brady. With the defense he's much much more fluid and adaptable to the talent he has. Edited August 28, 2017 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Rex has coached alot of great LB's in his time and was enamored with Ragland before the injury. Either Ryan was blowing smoke up his ass or he's not recovered from his injury. Either way, a 4th round pick is basically giving him away. I do not like this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2019 pick isn't great but honestly I'm surprised they got that for him considering that he would very likely have been cut and available for nothing in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Rex has coached alot of great LB's in his time and was enamored with Ragland before the injury. Either Ryan was blowing smoke up his ass or he's not recovered from his injury. Either way, a 4th round pick is basically giving him away. I do not like this move. It's Rex. Blowing smoke is what he does best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) All 3-4 teams also play 4-3, some of them more than half the plays depending on how many passes the other teams tend to throw. .....so why is it a staunch "either or" proposition?....I understand and agree with your concept of hybrid looks.....doesn't a kid coming out as a "4-3 only" or a "3-4 only" type severely limit his attractiveness?...isn't it incumbent on coaching to develop hybrid looks?......what did I miss?............. Edited August 28, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I agree with you in the offensive side of the ball, for sure. I think that has more to do with Brady. With the defense he's much much more fluid and adaptable to the talent he has. There are a bunch of ways to do it. There are coaches that have a great scheme and find guys who play well in that scheme. There are coaches that have a flexible scheme and are great at adapting to fit the talents of their players. And both of those ways have 5x as many guys who do the same thing they do but suck at it. Satan there is no one like. No one knows or coaches both sides of the ball like he does. No one plays GM like he does. He's an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) There are a bunch of ways to do it. There are coaches that have a great scheme and find guys who play well in that scheme. There are coaches that have a flexible scheme and are great at adapting to fit the talents of their players. And both of those ways have 5x as many guys who do the same thing they do but suck at it. Satan there is no one like. No one knows or coaches both sides of the ball like he does. No one plays GM like he does. He's an anomaly. I'm trying to think of another NFL example of a new and inexperienced/unproven GM/coach combo that came in, installed brand new schemes on both sides of the ball, traded away a group of young, purportedly talented players at a discount, and then made it to their second contracts. I'm at a loss but perhaps there are examples out there... anyone? Edited August 28, 2017 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 There are a bunch of ways to do it. There are coaches that have a great scheme and find guys who play well in that scheme. There are coaches that have a flexible scheme and are great at adapting to fit the talents of their players. And both of those ways have 5x as many guys who do the same thing they do but suck at it. Satan there is no one like. No one knows or coaches both sides of the ball like he does. No one plays GM like he does. He's an anomaly. To my eyes, there are more guys attached to their scheme. Rex was, McD seems to be. And even if you look around the NFL I think more coaches are stuck in their ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 .....so why is it a staunch "either or" proposition?....I understand and agree with your concept of hybrid looks.....doesn't a kid coming out as a "4-3 only" or a "3-4 only" type severely limit his attractiveness?...isn't it incumbent on coaching to develop hybrid looks?......what did I miss?............. There are only so many players at certain positions that can do both well and be above average starters at both. DT, DE, and LB are positions it matters the most. Obviously certain QBs operate better in West Coast versus Pro Style offenses. WR and TE it doesn't matter as much. Surely some CBs are good at zone but not man, or man but not zone. Certain S are good in the box but not out of the box. Certain OL are better at zone blocking than power blocking, or run versus pass. Not a lot of players in the NFL are great no matter what scheme they play. Surely some are but not more than a few per team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Yes thats true but he's not precious to his scheme. He gets value for his players. Really good value in fact and then adjust his scheme to what he has. Sometimes he does, it's true. Other times he trades one of my favorite NFL players in Jamie Collins for a 4th round pick, and Collins>>>>>>>>>>>Ragland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm trying to think of another NFL example of a new and inexperienced/unproven GM/coach combo that came in, installed brand new schemes on both sides of the ball, traded away a group of young, purportedly talented players at a discount, and then made it to their second contracts. I'm at a loss but perhaps there are examples out there... anyone? Probably not. Like I said, I don't like any of the trades. Maybe Schneider and Carroll in Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 To their credit, the guys designing and calling the offense last year seemed willing to work with the skills they had rather than force the round peg into the square hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) Sometimes he does, it's true. Other times he trades one of my favorite NFL players in Jamie Collins for a 4th round pick, and Collins>>>>>>>>>>>Ragland.yep because he had some issues and was going to be a FA and he didn't want to pay him. Picked Dontae Hightower over him. Forgot he only got a 4th. Browns gave him a ton of money to sign there long term Edited August 28, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 To my eyes, there are more guys attached to their scheme. Rex was, McD seems to be. And even if you look around the NFL I think more coaches are stuck in their ways. Yup. And there aren't a lot of consistently good coaches. It's like QBing. There are only about 10-12 guys on the planet that do it consistently well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 yep because he had some issues and was going to be a FA and he didn't want to pay him. Picked Dontae Hightower over him. Forgot he only got a 4th. Browns gave him a ton of money to sign there long term Different circumstances it's true, but let's not act like this is something unheard of. I'm trying to think of another NFL example of a new and inexperienced/unproven GM/coach combo that came in, installed brand new schemes on both sides of the ball, traded away a group of young, purportedly talented players at a discount, and then made it to their second contracts. I'm at a loss but perhaps there are examples out there... anyone? Those are pretty specific parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Different circumstances it's true, but let's not act like this is something unheard of. Those are pretty specific parameters. The traded away are the specific parameters because it rarely happens. The young coach and young gm coming in has happened, a lot in fact. And changing schemes. They just tent not to jettison young, good players. That puts a lot of presser on drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 It's beginning to look more like year zero of a rebuild than year 1. Cushioning the tear-down and not bottoming out is looking less likely now. At least the Bills are giving their fans plenty of other former Bills to watch this season: Gilmore, Gillislee, Watkins, Darby, Ragland, Woods, Goodwin, and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Aren't we overreacting just a bit to trading a guy that was running on the third team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2019? Talk about deferment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 It's beginning to look more like year zero of a rebuild than year 1. Cushioning the tear-down and not bottoming out is looking less likely now. At least the Bills are giving their fans plenty of other former Bills to watch this season: Gilmore, Gillislee, Watkins, Darby, Ragland, Woods, Goodwin, and others. Somehow that seems like a better team than we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Somehow that seems like a better team than we have. It's kinda like a Twilight Zone version of fantasy football for Buffalo fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 One last time....... Reggie Ragnuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 One last time....... Reggie Ragnuts! Is he any relation to Joey Bago' Ragnuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Pimpin' Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Somehow that seems like a better team than we have. Yep. About one game better and about $50,000,000 more expensive and still not playoff caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) A fourth for a second rounder. Lol In fairness, he also cost a fourth rounder. At least they got that back. Edited August 28, 2017 by MDFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) We just threw away a 2nd round pick. This is why we are who we are. I'd say they just threw away another one of Whaleys bad draft picks. Not only did they throw him away but they suckered another team into giving us a pick for him. Edited August 28, 2017 by Scott7975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Yup. And there aren't a lot of consistently good coaches. It's like QBing. There are only about 10-12 guys on the planet that do it consistently well. And that's a sliding scale of "consistency" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1st and 2nd round picks should be the core of your team. We get rid of them like we don't need them. McD and BB better come away with a great QB prospect and several other impact players over the next few years or they will be gone too. Well they should be the core of your team but if they are bad picks to begin with your core will suck. I mean Maybin was a first rounder. Anyone upset when we got rid of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) @NDTScouting A look back at the Bills' pick of Reggie Ragland and why I think taking an early 'L' is a good thing for #BillsMafia https://www.ndtscouting.com/bills/crabbs-reggie-ragland-2016-nfl-draft-retrospect/ A growing trend in the NFL: accepting your losses early. The Patriots did it with Kony Ealy. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers did it with K Roberto Aguayo. And now the Buffalo Bills have done the same with Reggie Ragland. Kudos to the Bills for being the only team to get draft capital back. Edited August 28, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boco357 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I would have preferred a stash and inactive game days and hopefully get more valuable pick once season started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Young players that were drafted higher than what we are dumping them for was the point...nobody put them on the same level, champ. I'm glad you enjoy throwing away young players that cost much more than what we are bringing back...that's a losing philosophy if I ever saw one. You don't get what you paid when you over paid to begin with and those players have shown cap on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Then what would you recommend they do with new coaches and GMs when it comes to contracts? Rent to own? The mistakes made by the Pegulas neither begin nor end with the length of the contract. In fact, the length of the contract doesn't play a role at all EXCEPT to instill confidence, not just in the person you're hiring but the players he hopes to recruit. You can't try to bring a good player or other coaches with you if you sign a two-year deal. The only part of the bad contract that affects anyone is the money, and since it's not your money, it's not part of the conversation. You're basically arguing that people who recieve 6 year contracts would still have confidence instilled by the Pegulas if they fired their last 4 predecessors 1 year into their 6 year contracts. We'll just have to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Great pick WhaleyI'm pretty sure Rex had a lot to do with this pick as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 @NDTScouting A look back at the Bills' pick of Reggie Ragland and why I think taking an early 'L' is a good thing for #BillsMafia https://www.ndtscouting.com/bills/crabbs-reggie-ragland-2016-nfl-draft-retrospect/ Makes me feel better. Imagine if we just straight cut him. People would be more pissed (yes it's possible). He wasn't fitting in and they didn't see him in their plans. It sucks but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 NFL.com: Bills trade Reggie Ragland to Chiefs for 2019 pick A Rex Ryan-era pick, Ragland now heads to play for Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton, a fellow employer of the versatile 3-4 look Ryan had pegged Ragland for back in 2016. Sutton was Ryan's long-time linebackers coach in New York. So it goes for the new executive group in Buffalo. McDermott made a hasty attempt to change the Ryan-era culture by cracking down on rules and removing the team's locker room ping pong table. A little more than two weeks ago, new general manager Brandon Beane also took an eraser to the Doug Whaley tenure by executing a blockbuster trade that sent former No. 4 overall pick Sammy Watkins to the Rams and 2015 second-round pick Ronald Darby to the Eagles. For new general managers and coaches, this type of shakeup seems to have become a standard. Upon Howie Roseman's return to power in Philadelphia, he distanced the team from almost every major selection or signing of the Chip Kelly era. In Cleveland, the Browns also sold their roster in parts, collecting whatever draft capital they could manage. The Bills have enough experience at quarterback and enough veteran experience to stay afloat in 2017, but the pivot toward a potentially brighter (and younger) future started a few months ago and there's no looking back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 A pick in 2 years ? Lmao Rather have Ragland and see if he recovers I'm pretty sure we could use 4th 2018 pick in the upcoming draft if we decide to move up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Doug as signed on for 7 years. He got 3 and then a 4 year extension. To match Rex's 5 year deal. How long of a contract you give someone is irrelevant if you can them early. It's not irrelevant to Pegulas pocket book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 A rebuild these guys won't be around for in 3 years if results aren't seen as soon as 2018. Pegula has to give them more than two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 If I were owner I'd give the GM and HC iron clad 10 year contracts with a no fire clause. The problem this team has had for years now is lack of stability. You can't keep changing things every few years. You can't establish a philosophy of how you want to play, which then leads to who you draft, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Ragland was doomed from the start with this current coaching staff. He was a square peg in a round hole. Did not have the skill set for the defense that they run. Wasted draft pick. Getting a 4th in 2019 is a bummer. I think he will be a solid NFL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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