BillnutinHouston Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 It's put up or shut up time. Honeymoon's long over. So the Pegulas should shut up and....sell? Or something else? Wahh wahhh wahh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Is this the end for Lehner since Timmy won't be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm not against Whaley like many here are, however, lets see if he still has a job by May 1st. Teams typically keep GMs around till after the draft as they did all the scouting and don't want that knowledge going to another team. Could be ultimately McDermott is making the picks, or at a minimum, he is approving the picks by Whaley. If that is the case, Whaley himself probably knows he'll be out of work in a couple of weeks. Scouts are let go after the draft; when their contracts expire. GMs are show the door at the end of December along with HCs. Why would you keep a GM who you want to fire and let him handle the current draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 So Eichel did get his coach fired after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Coughlin is a legit football guy and would have given Buffalo instant credibility. Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Scouts are let go after the draft; when their contracts expire. GMs are show the door at the end of December along with HCs. Why would you keep a GM who you want to fire and let him handle the current draft? How do you know he's "handling" the current draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 How do you know he's "handling" the current draft? Because McD and Pegula have both said so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 How do you know he's "handling" the current draft? Look at any other non-Bills team in the NFL. Then think about how you would perceive them after they'd fired their GM after the draft. Then come back to when Nix retired after that draft and DW was hired. Those are your answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 it would be baffling to have him run the coaching search, free agency and the draft with the assumption that he wasnt good enough at those tasks to retain his job. now if something has gone off the rails behind the scenes in the last few weeks or during the draft that is different -- but if the decision was made semi-early in the process id be very frustrated as a fan. Entirely agree, but let me ask you this - How Bills-y would it be to do something like that? How do you know he's "handling" the current draft? If you were going to get rid of him - why would you let him sign FAs, sit in on the hiring of a new HC, set-up the draft board, go on scouting trips or anything? Why waste the time and money? Why not hire the replacement and let them take care of this instead of crippling the franchise for another year? It makes no sense whatsoever, why would anyone ask this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverboat Richie Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 So Eichel did get his coach fired after all... Coaching, or lack of, got the coach fired. How many times do you have to watch a game and say What in the name of Eddie Shack is he doing before that becomes apparent???!!!! Lineups, playing not to lose and continuing to let it happen. Playing pond hockey in the second period most of the season. Right, it was Eichel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 So Eichel did get his coach fired after all... And the GM too for good measure? More likely Bylsma and Murray sealed their own fates with how the team has performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 For the grief the Pegula's are beginning to take regarding their ownership of Buffalo sports teams, it's not because of a lack of trying. I hope they'll hire a Senior Advisor to assess what the Sabres need best and whether Whaley is worth retaining after the Draft. jmo. exactly. I'd rather have the Pegula's who actually care about winning, than Bob Nutting, who owns the Pirates and does not care. Peg's won't tolerate any more incompetence. Bylsma should be a junior league coach. For some reason the NHL has not been kind to him. (except 1/2 of 2009). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 exactly. I'd rather have the Pegula's who actually care about winning, than Bob Nutting, who owns the Pirates and does not care. Peg's won't tolerate any more incompetence. Bylsma should be a junior league coach. For some reason the NHL has not been kind to him. (except 1/2 of 2009). You only care about winning when your teams have actually shown the ability to win. It's nice to make changes in hopes of finding someone who can win, but that's all I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 how can you blame this on Pegs. He followed the gm's plan for Several years and it hasn;t worked. Murray has blown through an awful lot of assets and doesn;t have a ton to show for it as of yet, how more years do you want to give Murray ? Do you want to lose the kid in the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I think something that has to be taken into account - The Pegula's did not hire Tim Murray. They hired Pat LaFontaine to run the team, and Lafontaine hired Tim Murray. Murray was never technically hired to run the whole team. He was hired because he was considered a very good scout, which is why Lafontaine supposedly picked him. He was supposed to help lafontaine scout and evaluate talent. Pegula never originally planned on having Murray run everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 how can you blame this on Pegs. He followed the gm's plan for Several years and it hasn;t worked. Murray has blown through an awful lot of assets and doesn;t have a ton to show for it as of yet, how more years do you want to give Murray ? Do you want to lose the kid in the process He could go to the Boston/New England area along with the former bills players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 How do GM's who have never been GM's get the experience? When all the GM's die, what happens then? maybe you start as an assistant GM? At least gain a bit of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I thought bylsma was good? Based on what I read it sounds like Eichel fired him. Did he look "good" to you? If so, you might be he only one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 They're getting the gang back together, Darcy Regier and Lindy Ruff here they come. They are pry still getting paid from the last contracts before getting canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaccof Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I really, really like Terry and Kim as humans. They're not like Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones, who may be the Antichrist. But man, they seem to be in wayyyyy over their heads as owners. This.....I'm glad they kept the teams in Buffalo and all - good for the local economy, yada yada yada, but boy, they're not really delivering much of a product. Wasn't this the year that the Sabre's broke though? Any reason to think next year will be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I really, really like Terry and Kim as humans. They're not like Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones, who may be the Antichrist. But man, they seem to be in wayyyyy over their heads as owners. You act like they took great franchises and ruined them... They took horrible franchises and are trying to turn them into something, that isn't easy or everyone could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Not that we need to get into it for the 8,000,000th time but his job isn't dependent on team record. He is in charge of revenue. He runs the business end which is comprised of ticket sales, sponsorship, broadcasting, community relations and stadium operations (think that is everything there). If those areas are functioning well he is succeeding at his job. They have done well in those areas. If the team goes 16-0 but revenues start to fall he will be in jeopardy of losing his job. It's important that we understand what people do. In terms of Murray and Bylsma they didn't do a good job. Murray had a lot of assets and it hasn't turned into results. Bylsma was a mistake from the beginning. His relationship with Eichel ensured that he would be gone. While we all know what Russ Brandon's technical job responsibilities entail, we also know he is involved in activities that aren't in his job description. Such as being on the phone to players in the Buffalo Bills cut room meeting! Among other things. We are also aware that he has had great influence over these new owners various issues. Such as telling Terry Pegula to not let Rex Ryan leave the building after the last Ryan interview. It's my contention that Brandon is the one who talked Terry Pegula into thinking he had the wherewithal to make the final decision on who to hire as head coach of the Buffalo Bills because he told Terry would know who to hire after interviewing all the candidates. Shades of Ralph Wilson all over again! Terry Pegula was going to hire a football czar after he bought the team and was in talks with Bill Polian. For whatever reason, this czar hire never happened and my take is we have Brandon to thank for it. Mostly because should the team hire that senior NFL adviser/czar it will leave Brandon on the outside of the football operations looking in and he has long been involved in that entire process since being defacto GM after Marv retired. How many other owners do you see in the scouting process in taking with college quarterbacks before the draft? Like he didn't learn a lesson by being BSed by Rex Ryan in that interview. I've been saying it for years now that this team is desperate for an experienced team president of football operations! A man that knows how to build a winning NFL franchise and find that elusive franchise QB. Roll out the Brinks truck to Hire Ted Thompson away from Green Bay and promote him to that position of team president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 You act like they took great franchises and ruined them... They took horrible franchises and are trying to turn them into something, that isn't easy or everyone could do it. Exactly! They had big dreams and are finding out dreams don't get it done. I still believe they have the best interests of both teams in mind despite the drivel from TBN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Agreed Gabriel was the worst. I know a few people in the Bears organization and they considered him to be a clown.Never took any responsibility for his poor decisions and was disliked by coaches and players alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Anyone who thinks he's just the ticket sales and marketing guy is fooling themselves. Again, I have been a vocal advocate of the situation but it isn't because that's what I think is happening. There is a huge misconception here and amongst Bills fans as to what he does. A part of it is that people don't understand the makeup of a sports organization and a part is they are always looking to hold someone accountable. It isn't "ticket sales" it is revenue generation and community relations. The ticket end is a drop in the bucket. If the Bills sold zero tickets they would be very profitable. Russ Brandon is responsible for all things money related except what comes from the league. In that case he has been involved in the CBA negotiations as well. If you don't like the deal with the county, the New Era name, your seat relocation, your broken seat back, long entrance lines, ticket prices, etc.... that falls under his umbrella. If you don't like the team record that is someone else. I guess that I will bow out on this now but I'm exhausted from being a broken record on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 With respect to this idea of a czar of overall President, etc. for each team, I wonder about the potential value. What would a GMs job be? For example, if Patty had stuck around, what exactly would a GM like Murray had done? Would he truly have been able to decide on draft picks, etc. or would he not have control of that? I'd ask the same thing about the Jaguars this coming season, with Coughlin. Does Marrone (a control freak) have any say in personnel? What will their GM actually do there? I have been part of organizations that have too little effective management and where the head person (akin to the Pegulas) make decisions they are not informed enough to make, and I've been part of organizations where there are too many senior management people butting heads and as a result nothing gets accomplished. To me for both the Sabres and Bills they need one guy that has the final say on how the team is put together and functions, and then whichever that is (HC or GM), has to have the other guy as a complimentary guy that is insynchrony with the style of play , etc. You might want to hire a consultant, veteran guy to find those folks, but having a permanent czar like figure to me adds an additional layer of management that may only muddy the waters. With respect to Brandon when you go downtown to enjoy the frozen Four in a few years you can thank him in part for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 They're swinging the axe and breaking out the broom. Will the Sabres make the playoffs before the Bills??? Stay tuned for the next new hirings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I can't believe TM was fired at such a critical time. Expansion draft , regular draft , wheeling and dealing trades to be made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) While we all know what Russ Brandon's technical job responsibilities entail, we also know he is involved in activities that aren't in his job description. Such as being on the phone to players in the Buffalo Bills cut room meeting! Among other things. We are also aware that he has had great influence over these new owners various issues. Such as telling Terry Pegula to not let Rex Ryan leave the building after the last Ryan interview. It's my contention that Brandon is the one who talked Terry Pegula into thinking he had the wherewithal to make the final decision on who to hire as head coach of the Buffalo Bills because he told Terry would know who to hire after interviewing all the candidates. Shades of Ralph Wilson all over again! Terry Pegula was going to hire a football czar after he bought the team and was in talks with Bill Polian. For whatever reason, this czar hire never happened and my take is we have Brandon to thank for it. Mostly because should the team hire that senior NFL adviser/czar it will leave Brandon on the outside of the football operations looking in and he has long been involved in that entire process since being defacto GM after Marv retired. How many other owners do you see in the scouting process in taking with college quarterbacks before the draft? Like he didn't learn a lesson by being BSed by Rex Ryan in that interview. I've been saying it for years now that this team is desperate for an experienced team president of football operations! A man that knows how to build a winning NFL franchise and find that elusive franchise QB. Roll out the Brinks truck to Hire Ted Thompson away from Green Bay and promote him to that position of team president. Jim Overforf is on the phone too. They act at the direction of the football people. If you find that appalling you should see the people that are on the phone as the draft winds down. You'd be appalled. A lot of this, and other speculation just isn't reality. The notion that he is sabotaging job candidates is preposterous. He is a trusted confidant because he has made a lot of money for the Pegulas and Wilsons. His operation is very buttoned up. I don't know how else to say it other than I have seen a bunch and most don't compare to the Bills. He would have the opportunity as a team president very shortly after leaving the Bills and Sabres if he were ever let go. I know no one wants to hear that but it is the truth. Edited April 20, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Entirely agree, but let me ask you this - How Bills-y would it be to do something like that? the definition of bills-y. and unfortunately, its exactly the type of thing we are going to be wondering about if he does get the axe in the short term future. frankly, if the owners and GM disagreed on coach and the GM lost, he shouldve been gone at that point and if it was tenuous enough that within 3 months a struggle emerged between coach/gm and gm loses his job, the gm shouldve been gone in january. short of whaley picking up a bad drug habit in april, id be unhappy with keeping him if the ice was so thin in january... IF he actually gets fired. huge IF there but... I know no one wants to hear that but it is the truth. to be fair, a lot of our regulars hear and believe it fully.... but there sure are some real vocal skeptics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 New owners with no previous experience with pro sports franchises frequently understand they need to bring in experienced, top level advisors or franchise overseers from the get go. Some go that route while others, such as Dan Snyder, feel they know it all and will thus be able to run the whole show. Then there are others, such as the Pegulas, who either don't consciously subscribe to either approach and apparently just choose to wing it. The ones who succeed generally subscribe to the initial approach. It's never to late Mr. and Mrs. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 While we all know what Russ Brandon's technical job responsibilities entail, we also know he is involved in activities that aren't in his job description. Such as being on the phone to players in the Buffalo Bills cut room meeting! Among other things. We are also aware that he has had great influence over these new owners various issues. Such as telling Terry Pegula to not let Rex Ryan leave the building after the last Ryan interview. It's my contention that Brandon is the one who talked Terry Pegula into thinking he had the wherewithal to make the final decision on who to hire as head coach of the Buffalo Bills because he told Terry would know who to hire after interviewing all the candidates. Shades of Ralph Wilson all over again! Terry Pegula was going to hire a football czar after he bought the team and was in talks with Bill Polian. For whatever reason, this czar hire never happened and my take is we have Brandon to thank for it. Mostly because should the team hire that senior NFL adviser/czar it will leave Brandon on the outside of the football operations looking in and he has long been involved in that entire process since being defacto GM after Marv retired. How many other owners do you see in the scouting process in taking with college quarterbacks before the draft? Like he didn't learn a lesson by being BSed by Rex Ryan in that interview. I've been saying it for years now that this team is desperate for an experienced team president of football operations! A man that knows how to build a winning NFL franchise and find that elusive franchise QB. Roll out the Brinks truck to Hire Ted Thompson away from Green Bay and promote him to that position of team president. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 i don't know much about hockey but they hired the coach that was riding the coat tails of the best hockey player on the planet (Crosby). This outcome is not a surprise. And Tim Murray sounds like an idiot every time they interview him. They were collecting picks like Cleveland but then they were spending them foolishly. A 1st rounder for a very average goalie and a 3rd rounder just to be able to negotiate with a player that doesn't want to play for you a few weeks before he becomes a free agent. Now that Cleveland has LeBron, Buffalo is by far the biggest trainwreck sports town there is You're right - you don't know much about hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 You act like they took great franchises and ruined them... They took horrible franchises and are trying to turn them into something, that isn't easy or everyone could do it. You left out the part where having 2+ billion to blow on pro sports franchises might be a barrier to "everyone" doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 So will it be playoffs or bust for the next GM and coach, what do they get, a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 New owners with no previous experience with pro sports franchises frequently understand they need to bring in experienced, top level advisors or franchise overseers from the get go. Some go that route while others, such as Dan Snyder, feel they know it all and will thus be able to run the whole show. Then there are others, such as the Pegulas, who either don't consciously subscribe to either approach and apparently just choose to wing it. The ones who succeed generally subscribe to the initial approach. It's never to late Mr. and Mrs. P. Care to name these new owners that have turned over control to top level advisors and franchise overseers? In both sports, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 You're right - you don't know much about hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Glad they are gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I can't believe TM was fired at such a critical time. Expansion draft , regular draft , wheeling and dealing trades to be made Timing is terrible and any deals TM had negotiated with Vegas are obviously gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 ...as another poster suggested, would you bring in the Lombardi-Sutter tandem?....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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