BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It falls on the org structure set by the Pegulas http://blogs.canoe.com/krykslants/nfl/you-could-see-latest-bills-melodrama-coming-and-the-blame-it-must-be-said-falls-on-the-pegulas-but-heres-how-they-can-fix-it/ Interesting thoughts, many conveyed by posters here as well and look at the clicks gotten! If the Bills collapse that its warranted. If not is is all hot air. BTW was this person pro or anti EJ throughout camp. Tough cuts happen all the time. I expect more tough cuts to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 But why are we hearing ahead of time that we are thinking of cutting this player or that player or that there is internal debate or disagreement? I don't think this stuff should be coming out Because reporters have to write something. There is always going to be internal debate and disagreements when putting a roster together. 49ers released Gore, Texans Andre Johnson...it happens. I'm disappointed Jackson is gone but I'm not flipping out like most here. I'm ready for the season to start. We have a really good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 and look at the clicks gotten! If the Bills collapse that its warranted. If not is is all hot air. BTW was this person pro or anti EJ throughout camp. Tough cuts happen all the time. I expect more tough cuts to come. kryk? I don't remember him taking a pro or anti EJ stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Because reporters have to write something. There is always going to be internal debate and disagreements when putting a roster together. 49ers released Gore, Texans Andre Johnson...it happens. I'm disappointed Jackson is gone but I'm not flipping out like most here. I'm ready for the season to start. We have a really good team. I don't believe that reporters should be getting the quality of information that they seem to be getting about the inner workings of the organization. I don't think that happens with quality organizations, hopefully we get it straightened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I have no problem with what is going on internally. The problem, to me, is all the leaks. I don't think this happens with good organizations Leaks happen all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Now look what you did Tim http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/02/buffalo-bills-doug-whaley-fred-jackson-rex-ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Haha going rouge is such a buzz word now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Now look what you did Tim http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/02/buffalo-bills-doug-whaley-fred-jackson-rex-ryan peter king apparently respects his reporting more than most here. what does he know? has been covering the nfl a very long time at one of the most respected sports publications ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Who cares the season is about to start people we should be talking about that. So the oldest RB in the league was cut BIG DEAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 peter king apparently respects his reporting more than most here. what does he know? has been covering the nfl a very long time at one of the most respected sports publications ever. That article wasn't written by Peter King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 So dysfunctional...the skins have us beat by a mile though. It's still funny we are arguing over who are 4th string rb will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I love Kryk's reporting I always feel like its an unbiased opinion which is refreshing CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 What I find interesting is the "Whaley made the right move" crowd. I wonder where 99% of them were Sunday night. there have been a few of us saying the writing was on the wall all offseason. and many of the accused "right move" crowd are simply saying that they are fine with the decision either way - simply that there wasnt a distinctly wrong move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 and look at the clicks gotten! If the Bills collapse that its warranted. If not is is all hot air. BTW was this person pro or anti EJ throughout camp. Tough cuts happen all the time. I expect more tough cuts to come. Huh?? Only you could somehow turn this of all threads into an EJ question. Maniacal crusade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Anybody really care about he said she said news reporting I sure don't LETS PLAY SOME FOOTBALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) and look at the clicks gotten! If the Bills collapse that its warranted. If not is is all hot air. BTW was this person pro or anti EJ throughout camp. Tough cuts happen all the time. I expect more tough cuts to come. Kryk is typically a feature piece/opinion writer, not a daily news guy AFAIK. His one piece I saw on the QB competition was very even-handed and described the flaws of all 3 QB as he saw at the practice he attended, without any apparent bias. HIs flaw seems to be that he lacks his own inner connections so he tends to regurgitate what other media says at times - for example after Marrone left, he referred to the Bills as "Dysfunction Junction" and talked about Polian coming as Football Czar etc. He promoted the Bills trying to acquire RGIII after Orton retired as 'we're not going to find our next QB in EJ'. When writing about Marrone as OL coach of Jax, he quoted Bradley as saying the Bills had a well-coached line under Marrone and "ran the ball very well" -- which he may have thought spoke for itself as delusional but it would have been clearer to those who aren't intimate with the Bills if he'd cited the Bills YPA and # of attempts or something. Edit: I guess I should add that mainstream media seems to have the same flaw, after I saw the MMQB piece by Robert Klemko parroting the Tim Graham tweet as "Whaley facing accusations of going rogue". Sorry, but a reporter's tweet about "going rogue" which is not substantiated or sourced except "inside the organization" does not constitute an accusation IMO and if it does - under law one has the right to face one's accuser, morally and ethically I think the principle holds. "intimation" or "reported by unidentified sources in the organization" would be better. The media are also exploiting Twitter I think, Edited September 3, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 there have been a few of us saying the writing was on the wall all offseason. and many of the accused "right move" crowd are simply saying that they are fine with the decision either way - simply that there wasnt a distinctly wrong move. Don't straddle the fence, it's lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 In all honesty I think this was all done so Rex doesn't take any heat. Whaley is handling the fallout. Would fit what's going down. "Good cop Bad cop" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Don't straddle the fence, it's lame. ah, i forgot you prefer the extreme takes, even when many of the decisions can easily go either way without extreme consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 ah, i forgot you prefer the extreme takes, even when many of the decisions can easily go either way without extreme consequence. If you wouldn't make the decision, you don't think it was the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I have no problem with what is going on internally. The problem, to me, is all the leaks. I don't think this happens with good organizations What can we say? That The Buffalo Bills are just a small-minded organization filled with petty, jealous little people who are like birds that can't keep a single thought in their head once it pops up there? They have to run to whisper in their favorite sycophant's ear to eagerly spill the news because they're "in the know!" They have no integrity and are filled with animosity toward the GM who is their boss and want to undercut him at every opportunity so as to make themselves look bigger? That underlings are trying to set in motion a power struggle between the owners, GM, and HC just for ***** and giggles? I'm not so sure that any or all of that isn't correct. That article wasn't written by Peter King. Don't bother. He never lets facts get in the way of a good-for-him meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Doug Whaley made it after running it past management (even Graham acknowledges the Pegulas were informed). That isn't a man "going rogue" that is a man carrying out his responsibilities. A case could be made that T-Pegs was the guy who should have informed "Football Operations" (i.e., Brandon) after he got the news from Whaley/Ryan. After all, that's the reporting arrangement with Brandon reporting to him, not Doug. I suspect that being at the U.S. Open last week, he may have been a bit distracted in his managerial duties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) I don't believe that reporters should be getting the quality of information that they seem to be getting about the inner workings of the organization. I don't think that happens with quality organizations, hopefully we get it straightened out. Well, that sort of creates a tautology, doesn't it? Leaks don't happen in quality organizations -> Leak happens -> Therefore we're not a quality organization. I think leaks happen all the time.... Joe Employee talks to his wife, or his friend, or his chiropracter, who then cultivates self-importance "guess what I heard!". The issue with the Bills seems to be lack of accountability in the media for the credibility of the sources. One guy tweets some gossip which, since it's twitter and not his news org, he can say whatever he likes without any awkward questions from an editor. Then the rest of the media takes off with it citing the tweet, who if called on it, can say "oh, I didn't publish that in an article, it's just a quick tweet" Edited September 3, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltimoreFanBills Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) That article is blowing it out of proportions. Its a classic example of the media making an issue larger than it has to be to get attention. I think every Bills fan is at least a little upset by FedEx being cut but sometimes things change. I am sure the thought was cut Brown who can play for years to come or keep FedEx for a year. Its business. If you had a cleaning business are you going to hire the 60 year old who wants a higher pay and has health problems or a 20 year old who you can pay less and can work like a ox. Edited September 3, 2015 by BaltimoreFanBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 peter king apparently respects his reporting more than most here. what does he know? has been covering the nfl a very long time at one of the most respected sports publications ever. Sports writers really rely on each other for stories. One writes it, a hundred others chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 How many touches was Fred going to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If you wouldn't make the decision, you don't think it was the right one. there are plenty that have said "not the decision i would make, but i get it" not every decision has to have a right vs wrong, black and white outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If you wouldn't make the decision, you don't think it was the right one. I went on record saying I disagreed with the decision. But guess what--I'm not the GM and neither is anyone else here. Full Stop. We think emotionally and don't have to consider the "inside OBD" ramifications of such a move. So it's easy to B word, whine and pontificate. But there were likely a host of reasons that factored into DW's decision to go with younger/cheaper RBs that would allow him to better support another position group or free up money to pay Marcel. Will the results of the decision be on Whaley? Absolutely. But given his hit rate on Byrd, Levitre, Stevie J., Kiko etc., I'm willing to feel sad about Fred and give Doug the benefit of the doubt. Which doesn't matter anyway, since I don't work at OBD (contrary to what Negativo says)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocoboy Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 A case could be made that T-Pegs was the guy who should have informed "Football Operations" (i.e., Brandon) after he got the news from Whaley/Ryan. After all, that's the reporting arrangement with Brandon reporting to him, not Doug. I suspect that being at the U.S. Open last week, he may have been a bit distracted in his managerial duties... The release was handled in a hasty fashion for whatever reason. Maybe Whaley was afraid that someone with influence (Brandon?) might talk the Pegulas out of the decision. There's no good reason for the public to know these inner workings. It was an unpopular-but-necessary decision. Whaley is taking the flak for it, and probably the words from FJ himself hurt the most. But he's in an executive position, and he executed a decision. Pegula can fire him if it doesn't like that. Let's just say that two years ago, this kind of move doesn't happen with Brandon the Marketer holding office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) I went on record saying I disagreed with the decision. But guess what--I'm not the GM and neither is anyone else here. Full Stop. We think emotionally and don't have to consider the "inside OBD" ramifications of such a move. So it's easy to B word, whine and pontificate. But there were likely a host of reasons that factored into DW's decision to go with younger/cheaper RBs that would allow him to better support another position group or free up money to pay Marcel. Will the results of the decision be on Whaley? Absolutely. But given his hit rate on Byrd, Levitre, Stevie J., Kiko etc., I'm willing to feel sad about Fred and give Doug the benefit of the doubt. Which doesn't matter anyway, since I don't work at OBD (contrary to what Negativo says)... i was going to say the exact same thing. I would never have cut Fred and that's (one of many reasons) why I'm not a GM. I simultaneously hate it as a fan and completely understand it when you take out the emotion and look at the facts. Edited September 3, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I went on record saying I disagreed with the decision. But guess what--I'm not the GM and neither is anyone else here. Full Stop. We think emotionally and don't have to consider the "inside OBD" ramifications of such a move. So it's easy to B word, whine and pontificate. But there were likely a host of reasons that factored into DW's decision to go with younger/cheaper RBs that would allow him to better support another position group or free up money to pay Marcel. Will the results of the decision be on Whaley? Absolutely. But given his hit rate on Byrd, Levitre, Stevie J., Kiko etc., I'm willing to feel sad about Fred and give Doug the benefit of the doubt. Which doesn't matter anyway, since I don't work at OBD (contrary to what Negativo says)... Yep. Plus, a lot of times it's a 51-49 or 55-45 decision. You see both sides clearly, you just favor one. And furthermore, if it's close like that you're not even feeling strongly one way or another, and know you could easily be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Whaley is feeling a ton of pressure right now, I think. He's been in his position for a few years. He has a new owner, that tried to hire a head of football operations guy a few months ago. Now he has a larger than life personality head coach in Rex Ryan. On top of it he has someone in the organization leaking bits about him to the media. Hes not in a comfortable position. I think Whaley is probably trying to assert his dominance against these factors. He knows he is under a microscope, and I don't expect its going to get much better for him. He knows the Bills need to win now, or he will be under a lot of scrutiny after this season. So of course there's going to be some disagreements behind closed doors, but that's where they need to stay, behind closed doors. The fact that this stuff was leaked doesn't make Whaley look as bad as it does the organizational structure. Winning will cure that, but as we all know, it comes down to QB. Whaley has built a great roster, but without a legit QB, we all know what happens. So to Whaley, and the org, Twitter is not their friend. And won't be until they win. I would expect Pegula is, right now, as we speak, shopping for GM's. And this season will be a gauge of whether he needs one or not. Edited September 3, 2015 by mastershake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Not sure if this opinion has been posted here, but I'd say let's keep in mind the (understandable) emotional reaction by FJax. I think this has greatly contributed to this whole fiasco. The truth is, there is probably no way Freddie is happy under any scenario getting the axe, unless perhaps TPegs sitting him down for a 1:1 to show him the respect he deserved. This cutting smacks of the Turk paying a visit and I think we can all agree Freddie deserved a better send off. After he lands his next gig, and realizes the Bills did him a favor by letting him go early, he might be able to revisit this scenario with a bit more clarity. Maybe not. If he was so adamant about retiring as a Bill, he's got to know it doesn't always happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I would expect Pegula is, right now, as we speak, shopping for GM's. And this season will be a gauge of whether he needs one or not. Whaley is the best GM we have had since Polian. If we fire him I seriously don't know where this franchise's head is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It falls on the org structure set by the Pegulas http://blogs.canoe.com/krykslants/nfl/you-could-see-latest-bills-melodrama-coming-and-the-blame-it-must-be-said-falls-on-the-pegulas-but-heres-how-they-can-fix-it/ Interesting thoughts, many conveyed by posters here as well Excellent take. I agree and disagree. The thing is, you need a GM and coach to be able to work together. A GM needs to tell the coach where they are on salary and what options will be available based on those considerations. The coach needs to decide within those boundaries who he wants to keep and cut. It's his team to coach, not the GMs. Seems to me Whaley overstepped his role in the Freddy clusterfack, creating unnecessary turmoil. He should not be permitted to make decisions on who starts, who sits and who gets cut...only consulted on what they can afford under the cap and offer suggestions. What Whaley did is akin to Ryan deciding who would be drafted without Whaley's approval then going to Pegula and getting a rubber stamp OK. Then making the pick without ever notifying Whaley until afterward. Boundaries need to be respected, collaboration is critical, and communication is king. The boundaries between GM and coach clearly need to be better defined or there will be a three ring circus at OBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocoboy Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Whaley is the best GM we have had since Polian. If we fire him I seriously don't know where this franchise's head is at. It's best left as a learning experience for Whaley. He hasn't done anything that warrants firing, but he sure should learn how to disseminate information to the appropriate people so that they aren't taken for a loop and left compromised (see: M&T Bank's sponsorship). Edited September 3, 2015 by pocoboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Excellent take. I agree and disagree. The thing is, you need a GM and coach to be able to work together. A GM needs to tell the coach where they are on salary and what options will be available based on those considerations. The coach needs to decide within those boundaries who he wants to keep and cut. It's his team to coach, not the GMs. Seems to me Whaley overstepped his role in the Freddy clusterfack, creating unnecessary turmoil. He should not be permitted to make decisions on who starts, who sits and who gets cut...only consulted on what they can afford under the cap and offer suggestions. What Whaley did is akin to Ryan deciding who would be drafted without Whaley's approval then going to Pegula and getting a rubber stamp OK. Then making the pick without ever notifying Whaley until afterward. Boundaries need to be respected, collaboration is critical, and communication is king. The boundaries between GM and coach clearly need to be better defined or there will be a three ring circus at OBD. What you're saying: The GM should not decide who gets cut. The GM cutting a player that the HC wanted to keep is equal a HC drafting a player. Head Coaches make draft picks. Please confirm. not every decision has to have a right vs wrong, black and white outcome. Tell that to Chip Kelly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The coach needs to decide within those boundaries who he wants to keep and cut. It's his team to coach, not the GMs. Seems to me Whaley overstepped his role in the Freddy clusterfack, creating unnecessary turmoil. He should not be permitted to make decisions on who starts, who sits and who gets cut.... Well the Bills don't agree and nor do most teams in the league. Decisions on cuts and the 53 are for GMs. That is the case not just in Buffalo but most places around the league. Do GMs and Head Coaches usually discuss and make sure they are on the same page? Yes they do and should - and I believe Rex was on the same page with this cut as well. Rex's call is the 47 that dress on gameday. The 53 is Doug's call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I honestly think Rex was on board with the Freddie cut (Based off of my own speculation). Rex has to report to the players, and as a players coach Rex needs to have the good faith of the players to operate. Freddie was popular with both the fans and in the locker room. If Rex appears to have been against such an unpopular but pragmatic move he scores favor with the players. Whaley I honestly think is just taking the heat for a "rogue" decision, when in reality both Rex and the organization realized the need to roll over cap space into next season and Freddie wasn't going to be worth the price tag. Whaley is acting like the bad guy boss while Rex gets all the heat taken off of him. Pretty smart move if that's what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 What you're saying: The GM should not decide who gets cut. The GM cutting a player that the HC wanted to keep is equal a HC drafting a player. Head Coaches make draft picks. Please confirm. Tell that to Chip Kelly!! That's not what I said and you know it. Come on...you're better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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