LeGOATski Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It was an organizational decision. Some probably voted to keep Fred, but they lost the vote. It's unfortunate, but oh well. Keeping your GM and Coach equal, but separate is the right thing to do if you're an owner who wants to be involved. That way, you're hearing both sides of the story without one overstepping the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The melodrama is created the media blowing everything out of proportion along with a released and disgruntled RB. I'm sure it's all quiet on the issue within the bills organisation. Having said that I hope Freddy does go to the seahawks and tastes success before he retires, no player deserves it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 this is the Toronto Sun. I don't know their history but Kryk seems to have fair takes for the most part. Story originated with the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Again, it could even be leroi. And we've seen his slide through the reliability meter.Who the hell is Leroi? I see that name pop up all the time. No clue who that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) this is the Toronto Sun. I don't know their history but Kryk seems to have fair takes for the most part.True, but the basis of Kryk's article is nothing more than Graham's tweets and Kryk's attempt to explain how the Pegulas can solve the "problem". There is no new reporting of facts here. For all we know, Anthony Lynn wasn't consulted before Fred was cut, vented to Graham (because he discovered he wasn't as important as he thought he was) and then we have what the media proclaims to be "dysfunction". I think this is way overblown. Thanks Tim. Edited September 3, 2015 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 What makes it a mess? I don't get why people are making it bigger then it is. Why not talk about some other old guy getting cut. What about the CB from the bears? yeah this is stupid. making somethign where there is nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The melodrama is the Washington Redskins not the Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Story originated with the news.sure, I thought you were referring to this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) I do think this is all being a bit overblown to be honest. I think Kryk's article is not an unreasonable take but it contains some assumptions that could just as easily be wrong. Whaley made a decision to cut a popular vet. That is rarely a decision that every person in the organisation will agree with - I would fully expect some coaches would disagree. When we make some tough cuts at wide receiver there will be some coaches who disagree with the decision there as well - it will be like here where we have had healthy disagreements between good posters on this board about the merits of Hogan v Thompson v Goodwin v Thigpen v Davis..... people don't always agree and if they do you probably have the wrong people around you. Kryk suggests there is confusion about who has final say - there isn't. Rex and Doug both report to the Pegulas and as far as I can see the responsibility has been carried out here exactly inline with how Russ Brandon broke down the responsibilities in January. Doug has control over the 53. This was a decision in the process of getting down to 53 - Doug Whaley made it after running it past management (even Graham acknowledges the Pegulas were informed). That isn't a man "going rogue" that is a man carrying out his responsibilities. Edited September 3, 2015 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I do think this is all being a bit overblown to be honest. I think Kryk's article is not an unreasonable take but it contains some assumptions that could just as easily be wrong. Whaley made a decision to cut a popular vet. That is rarely a decision that every person in the organisation will agree with - I would fully expect some coaches would disagree. When we make some tough cuts at wide receiver there will be some coaches who disagree with the decision there as well - it will be like here where we have had healthy disagreements between good posters on this board about the merits of Hogan v Thompson v Goodwin v Thigpen v Davis..... people don't always agree and if they do you probably have the wrong people around you. Kryk suggests there is confusion about who has final say - there isn't. Rex and Doug both report to the Pegulas and as far as I can see the responsibility has been carried out here exactly inline with how Russ Brandon broke down the responsibilities in January. Doug has control over the 53. This was a decision in the process of getting down to 53 - Doug Whaley made it after running it past management (even Graham acknowledges the Pegulas were informed). That isn't a man "going rogue" that is a man carrying out his responsibilities. agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Deja vu all over again.... http://espn.go.com/premium/nfl/columns/cannizzaro_mark/362518.html yes. the bills did an amazing job replacing all that talent! sure saved a lot of money too! what a wonderful day that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Where exactly is the "mess" in the Bills' FO? So what if Rex and Whaley both report to Pegs -- doesn't that by itself mean Pegs arbitrates over any disagreements they have? This seems like an odd article. Clearly, in this instance the Bills want Rex to be the "good cop" so that he maintains the players' trust. Whaley is the "bad cop" making the tough decisions. There is ZERO evidence of discord between Rex and Whaley (and the Pegulas). Now, perhaps some of Rex's coaches disagree with the decisions, but that happens everywhere and the head man makes the call. Much ado about nothing if you ask me. Debate whether they should have axed Fred all you want, but I guarantee the players have moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It would seem to me that the only person who "went rogue" is Russ. I'm sure he is behind these leaks to some degree--he is the only hold over from the Ralph days who is firmly entrenched in upper management. The "old Bills" ran a very specific model, which was based on a cost/benefit analysis, was heavily market-based/fan opinion driven, and put winning as priority number 3 behind the bottom dollar and a packed stadium. And it worked. The Bills have been a steady "success story" in the NFL for the past 20 years, despite putting a horrible product on the field. This is due to one man and one man only: Russ Brandon. I love the guy, but his job was to keep the Bills afloat in the salary cap era, and make us look like a "legitimate" football team. As you are seeing from our moves this summer, the road to being a "legitimate" football team is a different one than we have traveled of late, and most fans are adjusting slowly... which is better than the Buffalo News, who have thus far been unable to change at all. Fred Jackson is one of my favorite Bills of all time, second only to Kelly. But, sadly, his "prime" may be behind him. If we were set at QB (like Seattle), we could afford to keep a veteran running back on the team to spell the bell cow... but we can't, and we'll take 3 QBs into the season. If this decision was made 4 years ago, Fred would still be captain of the Bills, because the fans love him. But one stat I don't see brought up very much in the discussion of Fred's career is the Bills records during that time... 6-10, 6-10, 6-10, 4-12, etc. etc. That is not to say Fred is responsible for those records... he isn't. He was a ray of hope during those days. But the fact of the matter is, a football team has to be run a certain way to be that bad for that long, and the Bills were run that way by Russ. Everything was a marketing decision to put butts in the seats, regardless of the product. Toronto: Marketing decision. St. John Fisher's: Marketing decision. Terrell Owens: Marketing. and on and on and on. Well, now the Bills make FOOTBALL decisions. To win FOOTBALL games. To try to put people in the seat that way. Will it work? I hope so. But at the end of the day, the only "internal" sources that seem to care about this Fred decision are the marketing guys... who didn't get enough of a heads up.. ala, Russ Brandon. He doesn't like giving up his power and influence at one bills drive (who would), and the old model would have been to either let a guy retire on his own accord because the fans love him (Kelsay), or trash him on his way out the door because we can't afford him (Lynch, et. al). This is a relatively new phenomenon in Buffalo, to cut big names for the sake of a younger, better roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY315 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 GR 550 @WGR550 29m29 minutes ago . @hsimon62 says there is no dysfunction in the Bills' front office http://media.wgr550.com/a/108854970/howard-says-there-is-no-dysfunction-in-the-bills-front-office.htm… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 GR 550 @WGR550 29m29 minutes ago . @hsimon62 says there is no dysfunction in the Bills' front office http://media.wgr550.com/a/108854970/howard-says-there-is-no-dysfunction-in-the-bills-front-office.htm… I have no problem with what is going on internally. The problem, to me, is all the leaks. I don't think this happens with good organizations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'd pick the RB coach. Lets face it the staff is all together on the same page until it comes time for cuts. At that point the RB coach wants the team to carry five RB, the OL coach wants ten lineman, WR, let's go with six or seven. So I'm sure the RB coach was not happy with cutting Fred, but over all the team likely viewed it as a numbers thing and RB was the odd man out today. Aaron Kromer can't be that stupid can he? Wait...yes he can. And "the coaching staff" is pretty big and includes some people that honestly we wouldn't really care if they disagreed and honestly many of them wouldn't be consulted, but they still have relationships with everyone involved. I can't imagine Fred being mentioned too often in defensive circles though it's possible. This is the offensive, special teams, and strength/conditioning staff Greg Roman - Offensive Coordinator Danny Crossman - Special Teams Coordinator Aaron Kromer - Offensive Line Kurt Anderson - Assistant Offensive Line (Marrone holdover) Eric Ciano - Strength and Conditioning Michael Hamlin - Special Teams Quality Control David Lee - Quarterbacks Dan Liburd - Strength and Conditioning Assistant Hal Luther - Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach Anthony Lynn - Assistant Head Coach/Running Backs Jason Oszvart - Strength and Conditioning Assistant Chris Palmer - Senior Offensive Assistant Eric Smith - Special Teams Assistant Jason Vrable - Offensive Quality Control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'd pick the RB coach. Lets face it the staff is all together on the same page until it comes time for cuts. At that point the RB coach wants the team to carry five RB, the OL coach wants ten lineman, WR, let's go with six or seven. So I'm sure the RB coach was not happy with cutting Fred, but over all the team likely viewed it as a numbers thing and RB was the odd man out today. dont forget Andre Reed is there too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The GM released a player.....shocking!! Does any other NFL team allow its GM to make roster moves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The GM released a player.....shocking!! Does any other NFL team allow its GM to make roster moves? But why are we hearing ahead of time that we are thinking of cutting this player or that player or that there is internal debate or disagreement? I don't think this stuff should be coming out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It would seem to me that the only person who "went rogue" is Russ. I'm sure he is behind these leaks to some degree--he is the only hold over from the Ralph days who is firmly entrenched in upper management. The "old Bills" ran a very specific model, which was based on a cost/benefit analysis, was heavily market-based/fan opinion driven, and put winning as priority number 3 behind the bottom dollar and a packed stadium. And it worked. The Bills have been a steady "success story" in the NFL for the past 20 years, despite putting a horrible product on the field. This is due to one man and one man only: Russ Brandon. I love the guy, but his job was to keep the Bills afloat in the salary cap era, and make us look like a "legitimate" football team. As you are seeing from our moves this summer, the road to being a "legitimate" football team is a different one than we have traveled of late, and most fans are adjusting slowly... which is better than the Buffalo News, who have thus far been unable to change at all. Fred Jackson is one of my favorite Bills of all time, second only to Kelly. But, sadly, his "prime" may be behind him. If we were set at QB (like Seattle), we could afford to keep a veteran running back on the team to spell the bell cow... but we can't, and we'll take 3 QBs into the season. If this decision was made 4 years ago, Fred would still be captain of the Bills, because the fans love him. But one stat I don't see brought up very much in the discussion of Fred's career is the Bills records during that time... 6-10, 6-10, 6-10, 4-12, etc. etc. That is not to say Fred is responsible for those records... he isn't. He was a ray of hope during those days. But the fact of the matter is, a football team has to be run a certain way to be that bad for that long, and the Bills were run that way by Russ. Everything was a marketing decision to put butts in the seats, regardless of the product. Toronto: Marketing decision. St. John Fisher's: Marketing decision. Terrell Owens: Marketing. and on and on and on. Well, now the Bills make FOOTBALL decisions. To win FOOTBALL games. To try to put people in the seat that way. Will it work? I hope so. But at the end of the day, the only "internal" sources that seem to care about this Fred decision are the marketing guys... who didn't get enough of a heads up.. ala, Russ Brandon. He doesn't like giving up his power and influence at one bills drive (who would), and the old model would have been to either let a guy retire on his own accord because the fans love him (Kelsay), or trash him on his way out the door because we can't afford him (Lynch, et. al). This is a relatively new phenomenon in Buffalo, to cut big names for the sake of a younger, better roster. Haha. The old TBD staple. If in doubt.... blame Russ Brandon. Brandon has not given up any power - if anything he has greater power he was the CEO of a small time struggling NFL franchise with an uncertain future he is now a key player in a sports and entertainment empire that is clearly looking to be ambitious and go places. You think after the Pegulas have just promoted him to CEO of their entire sports business he is going to leak something and risk that? I think zero chance. The GM released a player.....shocking!! Does any other NFL team allow its GM to make roster moves? If they do - they shouldn't... they should all let their HC control personnel because..... errrr...... Belichick and because ..... errr..... Carroll...... You are right there is no story here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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