Kryk: You could see the latest Bills melodrama coming

[TSOL]

Whaley is the best GM we have had since Polian. If we fire him I seriously don't know where this franchise's head is at.

 

All I am implying is that he is under a lot of pressure with new ownership and a big personality head coach like Ryan. There will be behind closed doors power struggles. And Pegs is an intelligent businessman looking into a contingency plan. Whaley is a good GM, but need to win, now.

[Gugny]

 

That's not what I said and you know it. Come on...you're better than that.

 

He should not be permitted to make decisions on who starts, who sits and who gets cut...only consulted on what they can afford under the cap and offer suggestions.

- GM doesn't decide who gets cut

What Whaley did is akin to Ryan deciding who would be drafted without Whaley's approval then going to Pegula and getting a rubber stamp OK. Then making the pick without ever notifying Whaley until afterward.

- HC making draft picks.

- GM cutting a player = HC drafting a player

It's exactly what you said.

[negativo]

 

He should not be permitted to make decisions on who starts, who sits and who gets cut...only consulted on what they can afford under the cap and offer suggestions.

- GM doesn't decide who gets cut

What Whaley did is akin to Ryan deciding who would be drafted without Whaley's approval then going to Pegula and getting a rubber stamp OK. Then making the pick without ever notifying Whaley until afterward.

- HC making draft picks.

- GM cutting a player = HC drafting a player

It's exactly what you said

 

I thought I made myself perfectly clear, but let me help you.

 

The GM controls the purse strings, and it's his job to work with the coach to ensure his decisions of who is kept and cut are fiscally viable and responsible. The coach, who is on the field with his staff evaluating the players every day, is the only one capable of deciding who the better players are for the team and who should be let go.

 

The GM's job is to assemble talent for the coach to evaluate. The coach should be able to consult the GM on personell matters to ensure they are getting the right type of guys for his team, but the trigger on who to sign and who to draft is ultimately the GM's.

 

If the coach goes unilateral on talent acquisition, or the GM goes unilateral on roster decisions, they will have overstepped their boundaries...or gone rogue if you will.

 

Did that help?

[Never NEVER Give-up]

A little late to this party, but a few thoughts . . .

 

If the official line is that Whaley made the call after discussing it with the Pegulas and Rex - as they say this is how they make all their decisions - AND Tim Graham tweets that it was Whaley going rogue - - Graham owes us a story with a little more meat. His tweet is nothing more than rabble-rousing - causing trouble with no explanation. Graham's sources? Really? The local guys NEVER break a story! It took Jay Glazer from California to tell us Tyrod would be starting!! The local guys should be living at OBD, but they never seem to get the scoop. The're known for their puff pieces about individual players - those "getting-to-know-you" pieces. Frustrating. We have no reason to distrust what the Bills official line is.

 

As far as Freddy's charge that he never felt Whaley was dealing straight with him...we can also assume it's true. Did you ever play football? 50 + guys, a dozen coaches - you never like all of them and in fact, you hate a few of them. Maybe they don't like each other and the handing down of the decision by Whaley was a little callous. I believe it. But I also believe it was a tough decision. Whaley has no desire to bring on a tempest if he can avoid it. This was a decision that was going to be made between now and next year. We were always going to hate to hear that Fred was leaving. But he's 34 (a younger 34, but still 34) his performance dipped last year (as did the O-Line's). They brought in Bryce Brown vs a 4th rounder, If they waited until next year to cut Fred, then at that time, they'd need to go find a RB, Brown would be gone (my opinion) and so would the 4th rounder. It was getting to be too expensive to keep a "short-timer" like Fred. (I agree w/Lurker & Kelly th Dog - posts above)

[BrooklynBills]

Gugny and negativo are having an epic battle spanning several different threads... and I love it.

 

You can just be taking a peaceful stroll through a thread and then BOOM!, they come crashing through the wall.

[YoloinOhio]

A little late to this party, but a few thoughts . . .

 

If the official line is that Whaley made the call after discussing it with the Pegulas and Rex - as they say this is how they make all their decisions - AND Tim Graham tweets that it was Whaley going rogue - - Graham owes us a story with a little more meat. His tweet is nothing more than rabble-rousing - causing trouble with no explanation. Graham's sources? Really? The local guys NEVER break a story! It took Jay Glazer from California to tell us Tyrod would be starting!! The local guys should be living at OBD, but they never seem to get the scoop. The're known for their puff pieces about individual players - those "getting-to-know-you" pieces. Frustrating. We have no reason to distrust what the Bills official line is.

 

As far as Freddy's charge that he never felt Whaley was dealing straight with him...we can also assume it's true. Did you ever play football? 50 + guys, a dozen coaches - you never like all of them and in fact, you hate a few of them. Maybe they don't like each other and the handing down of the decision by Whaley was a little callous. I believe it. But I also believe it was a tough decision. Whaley has no desire to bring on a tempest if he can avoid it. This was a decision that was going to be made between now and next year. We were always going to hate to hear that Fred was leaving. But he's 34 (a younger 34, but still 34) his performance dipped last year (as did the O-Line's). They brought in Bryce Brown vs a 4th rounder, If they waited until next year to cut Fred, then at that time, they'd need to go find a RB, Brown would be gone (my opinion) and so would the 4th rounder. It was getting to be too expensive to keep a "short-timer" like Fred. (I agree w/Lurker & Kelly th Dog - posts above)

great points.

 

I do think Bryce makes the team.

[Gugny]

 

I thought I made myself perfectly clear, but let me help you.

 

The GM controls the purse strings, and it's his job to work with the coach to ensure his decisions of who is kept and cut are fiscally viable and responsible. The coach, who is on the field with his staff evaluating the players every day, is the only one capable of deciding who the better players are for the team and who should be let go.

 

The GM's job is to assemble talent for the coach to evaluate. The coach should be able to consult the GM on personell matters to ensure they are getting the right type of guys for his team, but the trigger on who to sign and who to draft is ultimately the GM's.

 

If the coach goes unilateral on talent acquisition, or the GM goes unilateral on roster decisions, they will have overstepped their boundaries...or gone rogue if you will.

 

Did that help?

 

Your unilateral/rogue charge is based on a tweet that was proven to be complete bogus (and backpedaled upon by the idiot who tweeted it). No one knows what conversations did/did not occur, re: cutting Jackson, between Whaley and Ryan. "Multiple media reports," means nothing. Zilch.

 

Your crusade is ridiculous and tired. You should stop.

 

Did that help?

Gugny and negativo are having an epic battle spanning several different threads... and I love it.

 

You can just be taking a peaceful stroll through a thread and then BOOM!, they come crashing through the wall.

 

This is the first I've ever addressed Negativo, personally.

[BrooklynBills]

Weren't you in the other Fred Jackson threads?

 

Maybe I'm confusing you with another poster. Or everyone.

[negativo]

 

Your unilateral/rogue charge is based on a tweet that was proven to be complete bogus (and backpedaled upon by the idiot who tweeted it). No one knows what conversations did/did not occur, re: cutting Jackson, between Whaley and Ryan. "Multiple media reports," means nothing. Zilch.

 

Your crusade is ridiculous and tired. You should stop.

 

Did that help?

 

This is the first I've ever addressed Negativo, personally.

 

You've addressed me many times, so stop the lying. In this case, rather than address the substance of my points I further elaborated on for you you've defaulted back the "stop the crusade" crap. It's the nonsensical fallback when your argument falls flat on substance and the only thing left is to say, "Oh yeah, well the jerk store called and they're out of you!"

 

If you want a rational conversation than bring it. If your only purpose for posting is to try and silence criticism of the front office than please do so on your own, but keep me out of it.

[26CornerBlitz]

Weren't you in the other Fred Jackson threads?

 

Maybe I'm confusing you with another poster. Or everyone.

Won't this thread have the same nonsensical hot takes as the other that was finally closed yesterday. Yep! Already underway.

[Gugny]

 

You've addressed me many times, so stop the lying. In this case, rather than address the substance of my points I further elaborated on for you you've defaulted back the "stop the crusade" crap. It's the nonsensical fallback when your argument falls flat on substance and the only thing left is to say, "Oh yeah, well the jerk store called and they're out of you!"

 

If you want a rational conversation than bring it. If your only purpose for posting is to try and silence criticism of the front office than please do so on your own, but keep me out of it.

 

Nonsensical fallback that happens to be shared by every other user on the board. Good stuff.

 

Fred got cut because he's old and ineffective and the money can be used on better things than a 5th running back who won't contribute.

 

Whaley, as the General Manager, as you stated - assembles the team. He did his job by making a roster move. He did not go rogue. It's a non-story that you just won't let go.

 

Lastly, he is paying me good money to defend his actions on the Internet, so I will kindly ask that you stop this trolling immediately.

Weren't you in the other Fred Jackson threads?

 

Maybe I'm confusing you with another poster. Or everyone.

 

Yeah, I may have been mistaken. I challenge stupid people all the time and sometimes I forget names. Not that I'm calling anyone in particular stupid. I wouldn't do that, as it is a violation of the terms of service. I speak in general terms.

[negativo]

 

Nonsensical fallback that happens to be shared by every other user on the board. Good stuff.

 

Fred got cut because he's old and ineffective and the money can be used on better things than a 5th running back who won't contribute.

 

Whaley, as the General Manager, as you stated - assembles the team. He did his job by making a roster move. He did not go rogue. It's a non-story that you just won't let go.

 

Lastly, he is paying me good money to defend his actions on the Internet, so I will kindly ask that you stop this trolling immediately.

 

Let me get this straight. I make a post that is perfectly germane to the topic, and without any inflammatory rhetoric, and you personally attack me with a cease and desist order followed by a repetitive crusade to protect the front office from any criticism. Well, your frothing insistence that TBN reports are all lies and anyone who believes them must be silenced is what is redundant and old at this point.

 

Look, you will not silence me. If my opinions bother you so much please put me on ignore and take a Xanax.

[FireChan]

there are plenty that have said "not the decision i would make, but i get it"

 

not every decision has to have a right vs wrong, black and white outcome.

Why wouldn't you make the decision? Is it because you'd think it'd be the wrong one?

I went on record saying I disagreed with the decision. But guess what--I'm not the GM and neither is anyone else here. Full Stop.

 

We think emotionally and don't have to consider the "inside OBD" ramifications of such a move. So it's easy to B word, whine and pontificate. But there were likely a host of reasons that factored into DW's decision to go with younger/cheaper RBs that would allow him to better support another position group or free up money to pay Marcel.

 

Will the results of the decision be on Whaley? Absolutely. But given his hit rate on Byrd, Levitre, Stevie J., Kiko etc., I'm willing to feel sad about Fred and give Doug the benefit of the doubt.

 

Which doesn't matter anyway, since I don't work at OBD (contrary to what Negativo says)...

Who cares if we aren't the GM? We aren't the coach either. Or the players. Can we not comment on their decisions or play either?

[Kelly the Dog]

Why wouldn't you make the decision? Is it because you'd think it'd be the wrong one?

I understand that you believe everything you say is true, and every decision you make is the right one, but most reasonable people think they could also be wrong.

[FireChan]

I understand that you believe everything you say is true, and every decision you make is the right one, but most reasonable people think they could also be wrong.

They could be wrong. But they don't think they are. Or else they wouldn't pick what they thought to be the wrong decision.

 

Also, believe? I think my record shows I know at this point.

Edited September 3, 2015 by FireChan

[BillsVet]

peter king apparently respects his reporting more than most here. what does he know? has been covering the nfl a very long time at one of the most respected sports publications ever.

 

I think a lot of respected journalists over the years knew/know there's been plenty of dysfunction at OBD. Reporting on it would probably not endear them to fans, and so that knowledge is kept under wraps. But with the attention to the NFL growing tremendously over the last decade plus, we're seeing it more than ever.

 

 

It's best left as a learning experience for Whaley. He hasn't done anything that warrants firing, but he sure should learn how to disseminate information to the appropriate people so that they aren't taken for a loop and left compromised (see: M&T Bank's sponsorship).

 

Whaley's worked in a NFL front office for going on 20 years, 5+ of which have been at a more senior level in Buffalo. If he still needs OJT, then I further question his capacity to be a NFL GM.

[KOKBILLS]

I understand that you believe everything you say is true, and every decision you make is the right one, but most reasonable people think they could also be wrong.

 

Ya...Agreed...But TSW might be the wrong place to look for that sort of thing...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

I thought I made myself perfectly clear, but let me help you.

 

The GM controls the purse strings, and it's his job to work with the coach to ensure his decisions of who is kept and cut are fiscally viable and responsible. The coach, who is on the field with his staff evaluating the players every day, is the only one capable of deciding who the better players are for the team and who should be let go.

 

The GM's job is to assemble talent for the coach to evaluate. The coach should be able to consult the GM on personell matters to ensure they are getting the right type of guys for his team, but the trigger on who to sign and who to draft is ultimately the GM's.

 

If the coach goes unilateral on talent acquisition, or the GM goes unilateral on roster decisions, they will have overstepped their boundaries...or gone rogue if you will.

 

Did that help?

 

I doubt it will influence you, but that's actually not how things work. It varies from team to team, and on some teams the coach controls the 53 man roster.

 

 

The announced Bills procedure is: "Brandon said the 53-man roster will come under Whaley's responsibilities, while the 46-man roster on game day will be Ryan's. Pegula said the three would all report to him and co-owner and wife Kim Pegula. As was the case with the press conference that followed the Bills' change in ownership in October, Kim Pegula sat in the front row with other family members."

 

So:

Brandon: controls purse strings and staff which writes contracts

Whaley: controls talent acquisition and 53 man roster decisions, scouting and pro player personnel staff

Ryan: controls game-day decisions, scheme, coaching staff

All three: report directly to the Pegulas

 

In reality, the GM works to understand what type of players the coach needs to implement his schemes and acts according to player evaluation and rankings provided by the HC/coaching staff, and the GM and coach provide talent comparison/player value input to guide the football ops guys in how they write contracts.

 

Your description of how things work is factually incorrect according to the Bills announced organizational structure and rather than helping, will misinform people who take it seriously.

 

This post is provided as a service to people who want to understand how things work

Edited September 3, 2015 by Hopeful

[Heels20X6]

 

You've addressed me many times, so stop the lying. In this case, rather than address the substance of my points I further elaborated on for you you've defaulted back the "stop the crusade" crap. It's the nonsensical fallback when your argument falls flat on substance and the only thing left is to say, "Oh yeah, well the jerk store called and they're out of you!"

 

If you want a rational conversation than bring it. If your only purpose for posting is to try and silence criticism of the front office than please do so on your own, but keep me out of it.

 

This coming from the Mensa member that insinuated that many of the boards long-time posters were stooges for the Bills organizations. Yeah..."rational"

[TSOL]

I doubt it will influence you, but that's actually not how things work. It varies from team to team, and on some teams the coach controls the 53 man roster.

 

 

The announced Bills procedure is: "Brandon said the 53-man roster will come under Whaley's responsibilities, while the 46-man roster on game day will be Ryan's. Pegula said the three would all report to him and co-owner and wife Kim Pegula. As was the case with the press conference that followed the Bills' change in ownership in October, Kim Pegula sat in the front row with other family members."

 

So:

Brandon: controls purse strings and staff which writes contracts

Whaley: controls talent acquisition and 53 man roster decisions, scouting and pro player personnel staff

Ryan: controls game-day decisions, scheme, coaching staff

All three: report directly to the Pegulas

 

In reality, the GM works to understand what type of players the coach needs to implement his schemes and acts according to player evaluation and rankings provided by the HC/coaching staff, and the GM and coach provide talent comparison/player value input to guide the football ops guys in how they write contracts.

 

Your description of how things work is factually incorrect according to the Bills announced organizational structure and rather than helping, will misinform people who take it seriously.

 

This post is provided as a service to people who want to understand how things work

Very well put and informative. Thanks. Sounds like a pretty reasonable clear cut and productive structure they have in place, now if they can all just get along.

 

I have a feeling the tweets were a little overblown.