Carucci's Take 5 / Offseason Workouts (shots at old regime)

[NoSaint]

Old is bad, new is better. Welcome to the offseason.

to be fair, last year there was plenty of "current is bad"

[Last Guy on the Bench]

And Marrone did that quite a bit in NO as the OC. Of course he also went to a bowl game with Cuse. So the old coaches also understood getting to the playoffs which not for a crap game against Oakland and Texans might have happened.

Well once, actually. His first year, 2006, the Saints made the conference championship game before getting thwacked by the Bears. They missed the playoffs in the 2007 and 2008. Then he left for Syracuse.

[Beef Jerky]

I've seen the "the old coach was the source of all of our problems and our new coach rocks and will solve everything" story quite a bit.

If Rex/Roman get us to 12-4 and our offense looks like a whole new unit, I'll make that opinion. Not before.

Hahaha... So you need to wait until the time when it is too late.

[YoloinOhio]

"Eye test"

[Malazan]

you won't site reviving Alex Smith's career or taking Kap to the SB, but you'll bring up one year when dysfunction by managment sank the team.....

You trolling?

 

That the 49ers offense regressed to where it was ignores that they were up there to begin with...but selectively ignoring things is what Firechan does. It's his "thing". Don't knock him for it.

[Best Player Available]

As stated above, the rest of the paragraph singles out Manuel, receivers, and OL. Coaching shortcomings for Manuel could be argued as a combination of Marrone/Hackett (last two years) and the QB coach last year. Relative to receivers, Moore's only coaching experience prior was Syracuse. To me the OL comment especially about techniqes is especially damning for Marrone - who was supposed to be spending so mch time with the OL and that being his 'specialty'.

 

So glad those clowns are gone. Still so crazy to think they would all still be here if Marrone just said 'OK, I'll stay'

 

Aren't these comments etc. made against EVERY previous regime? After the Gailey/ Wanny regime ended. On this very board. I read that Maroon and his staff were innovative young football minds pursued by multiple other teams, etc. and many said far better than the eagles Chip Kelly hire. The guy that turned it around there season 1 after reid was fired. Actually Marroon was signed because he accepted bottom tier salary. kelly laughed his interview clocked in at around 15 minutes. I was flamed with others bigtime for crapping on the 2x pinhead bowl winner before his first game. No doubt by year 3 if this loaded team is not causing some serious damage. We can expect the same tar & feathering of Ryan/Roman. And Doug Whaley if he cannot build an O- Line and find a respectable young starting QB.

[FireChan]

Hahaha... So you need to wait until the time when it is too late.

You wanna crown them, crown their asses?

[CodeMonkey]

Aren't these comments etc. made against EVERY previous regime? After the Gailey/ Wanny regime ended. On this very board. I read that Maroon and his staff were innovative young football minds pursued by multiple other teams, etc. and many said far better than the eagles Chip Kelly hire. The guy that turned it around there season 1 after reid was fired. Actually Marroon was signed because he accepted bottom tier salary. kelly laughed his interview clocked in at around 15 minutes. I was flamed with others bigtime for crapping on the 2x pinhead bowl winner before his first game. No doubt by year 3 if this loaded team is not causing some serious damage. We can expect the same tar & feathering of Ryan/Roman. And Doug Whaley if he cannot build an O- Line and find a respectable young starting QB.

This is nothing new and always the same. Not just when Marone came in, but when Gailey/Wanny came in as well. Remember "biggest mistake Jerrah ever made was firing Gailey"?

Anyone going out sucks and everyone coming in is great and the savior. Just the way it is. No harm in it, and is fun for some.

[NoSaint]

This is nothing new and always the same. Not just when Marone came in, but when Gailey/Wanny came in as well. Remember "biggest mistake Jerrah ever made was firing Gailey"?

Anyone going out sucks and everyone coming in is great and the savior. Just the way it is. No harm in it, and is fun for some.

saying the new guy has potential is a bit different than "they put the qb in a system and didnt teach him how to run it and the WRs seemed surprised by the basics of route running" type of comments. theres always the soft side stuff that is feel good but these are some specific fundamental complaints that i dont think you always see (and were reflected in evaluations in the moment like "why is EJ running a read option that doesnt seem to have options")

[Heitz]

This is nothing new and always the same. Not just when Marone came in, but when Gailey/Wanny came in as well. Remember "biggest mistake Jerrah ever made was firing Gailey"?

Anyone going out sucks and everyone coming in is great and the savior. Just the way it is. No harm in it, and is fun for some.

 

In my eyes that this is a little different that what we've heard in the past, this is a respected Buffalo journalist and it's not just feel good quotes about the coach, it's pretty pointed criticisms - EJ getting more guidance than the past two years, lack of awareness of basic route running skills, OL technique and I feel like we've heard similar things from a few players this year.

 

In the end it's going to exciting to see how it all plays out!

[chris heff]

I highly doubt that. He seems far too arrogant to think like that. If anything, he felt he was smarter than the Bills FO and wanted out to somewhere he could have more control and be revered for his 'genius.'

You're probably right, but there are only 32 HC jobs in the NFL. Guys who are in the first contract of their first NFL HC job rarely walk away. What was his end game? Why jeopardize the position at all? New owner that didn't hire him, didn't make the playoffs. I think it's possible that he just wanted out.

[Heitz]

saying the new guy has potential is a bit different than "they put the qb in a system and didnt teach him how to run it and the WRs seemed surprised by the basics of route running" type of comments. theres always the soft side stuff that is feel good but these are some specific fundamental complaints that i dont think you always see (and were reflected in evaluations in the moment like "why is EJ running a read option that doesnt seem to have options")

 

See, what he said ^

 

Re: the bolded, don't you KNOW it's because Marrone had to cut all of the options for EJ? Literally a read OPTION. Just one.

[NoSaint]

You're probably right, but there are only 32 HC jobs in the NFL. Guys who are in the first contract of their first NFL HC job rarely walk away. What was his end game? Why jeopardize the position at all? New owner that didn't hire him, didn't make the playoffs. I think it's possible that he just wanted out.

because he thought the jets job was his to lose, and didnt realize he was going to do exactly that?

[Last Guy on the Bench]

You're probably right, but there are only 32 HC jobs in the NFL. Guys who are in the first contract of their first NFL HC job rarely walk away. What was his end game? Why jeopardize the position at all? New owner that didn't hire him, didn't make the playoffs. I think it's possible that he just wanted out.

I think he was absolutely convinced he had the Jets job (unless he got an even better offer from one of the other teams). He seems like a very ambitious guy - not likely to walk away from something just because he is unhappy. There are definitely people who would do that (I think that's what Mularkey did), but I don't think he's one of them.

 

Marrone got burned by relying on inside info that Woody was ready to offer him the Jets job. That info was probably true at the time - but it was a non-binding intention and Woody changed his mind. I have to believe that Marrone is absolutely kicking himself. But he has to put on a good face in public.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Vic was never one to hold back wrt being honest about what he saw happening in Buffalo especially when he went to report for NFL.com

 

At least he puts in the proper time to report and doesn't rely on the AP and twitter for updates

[Kelly the Dog]

I think he was absolutely convinced he had the Jets job (unless he got an even better offer from one of the other teams). He seems like a very ambitious guy - not likely to walk away from something just because he is unhappy. There are definitely people who would do that (I think that's what Mularkey did), but I don't think he's one of them.

 

Marrone got burned by relying on inside info that Woody was ready to offer him the Jets job. That info was probably true at the time - but it was a non-binding intention and Woody changed his mind. I have to believe that Marrone is absolutely kicking himself. But he has to put on a good face in public.

I think that is exactly what happened. Pegula called his bluff. Jimmy Sexton assured him that he could get him another HC job, probably on the Jets. But Sexton didn't know about some of Marrone's past, and when guys started badmouthing him, and he came across as a bitter selfish bastard, Manniish wrote some scathing pieces about him, others jumped in and Woody got cold feet. Then everyone else thought why would I hire this guy? What has he really done?

[CodeMonkey]

 

In my eyes that this is a little different that what we've heard in the past, this is a respected Buffalo journalist and it's not just feel good quotes about the coach, it's pretty pointed criticisms - EJ getting more guidance than the past two years, lack of awareness of basic route running skills, OL technique and I feel like we've heard similar things from a few players this year.

 

In the end it's going to exciting to see how it all plays out!

It's actually no different. Just speculation. But yes, it is always fun to see how it plays out

[GunnerBill]

Roman takes some blame for the regression in the 49ers... but that was a really complicated situation there last year and the noises coming out of the place were that as things went south Harbaugh became more and more intense and more and more of a control freak and basically started to sideline his coordinators to some extent. I am prepared to say that I think he is an upgrade on our recent OCs (and yes I include Chan Gailey) but it is reasonable to say wait and see.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl?

 

Doesn't matter if they haven't won a Super Bowl. They're more accomplished coaches than Marrone and Hackett.

[Doc]

The fish rots from the head down. The 49'ers were a dysfunctional mess going into last season and it affected the rest of the team.

[elroy16]

Here's something straight from one of the horse's mouths.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/audio/Jerry_Hughes_Striving_to_be_the_best_in_the_NFL/c04c9a60-50b4-421e-8511-93b307088426

 

 

John Murphy asked Jerry Hughes if the new coaching staff had anything to do with Jerry re-signing with Buffalo, Jerry gave a quick, definite yes. He went on to say (I'm paraphrasing), the front office brought in guys who have been successful and understand football and that played a part in him re-signing.

 

Just a small thing, but he didn't sound too sold on the previous regime.

 

 

Just a little something else, Murphy asked him about the defense dominating the offense so far, and Jerry said that the offense has had their days and EJ has looked good.

[BuffaloBill]

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/06/22/vic-caruccis-take-five-bills-offseason-workouts/

 

"Intensive teaching. The coaches identified plenty that was wrong with the fundamentals of returning players. Although no one from the current staff is going to take public shots at the former staff, there is a clear sense that the new group doesn’t think all that highly of the some of the work done by the predecessors."

 

 

Yikes at that entire paragraph. Just another reason to believe that this is going to be a fun year - our guys may actually know how to play NFL football!

All the more reason to be happy that Marrone is gone.

[ndirish1978]

It's a discussion board.

Your comments hardly ever contribute to discussion. Your posts all take the same basic formula: w2atd = wcd

 

 

Here it is broken down:

 

What Would a Troll Do = What Chan Does

[Deranged Rhino]

Here's something straight from one of the horse's mouths.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/audio/Jerry_Hughes_Striving_to_be_the_best_in_the_NFL/c04c9a60-50b4-421e-8511-93b307088426

 

 

John Murphy asked Jerry Hughes if the new coaching staff had anything to do with Jerry re-signing with Buffalo, Jerry gave a quick, definite yes. He went on to say (I'm paraphrasing), the front office brought in guys who have been successful and understand football and that played a part in him re-signing.

 

Just a small thing, but he didn't sound too sold on the previous regime.

 

 

Just a little something else, Murphy asked him about the defense dominating the offense so far, and Jerry said that the offense has had their days and EJ has looked good.

 

I didn't think that was a small thing at all. When I first heard that interview I was rolling. He took direct shots at Marrone, said he wouldn't have come back had there not been a coaching change, and raved about what a difference it makes to have competent coach's who are actually excited to coach.

 

It's a must listen interview. SHOTS FIRED!

[Malazan]

This is nothing new and always the same. Not just when Marone came in, but when Gailey/Wanny came in as well. Remember "biggest mistake Jerrah ever made was firing Gailey"?

Anyone going out sucks and everyone coming in is great and the savior. Just the way it is. No harm in it, and is fun for some.

 

Coaches saying that their players don't understand basic concepts is not exactly a feel good story.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I didn't think that was a small thing at all. When I first heard that interview I was rolling. He took direct shots at Marrone, said he wouldn't have come back had there not been a coaching change, and raved about what a difference it makes to have competent coach's who are actually excited to coach.

 

It's a must listen interview. SHOTS FIRED!

Yeah he clearly didn't like Marrone. Although I'm pretty sure that had to do with the fact that Marrone called him out in front of his fellow teammates in TC and screamed "Do you want to be on this team?!" and then of course forgot about him in the middle of a game which kept Hughes on the sidelines for almost a half. So those two things very likely made Hughes just hate him. But that has nothing to do with being a good football coach or knowing the NFL.

 

Those things Marrone sucked at independently.

[YoloinOhio]

Yeah he clearly didn't like Marrone. Although I'm pretty sure that had to do with the fact that Marrone called him out in front of his fellow teammates in TC and screamed "Do you want to be on this team?!" and then of course forgot about him in the middle of a game which kept Hughes on the sidelines for almost a half. So those two things very likely made Hughes just hate him. But that has nothing to do with being a good football coach or knowing the NFL.

 

Those things Marrone sucked at independently.

there were also guys from the defense (I recall AW specifically) who took shots at marrone during the season - saying the coach needs to trust the D more and take chances on offense when they are in position to still win a game and ... Punt.

[John from Riverside]

And Marrone did that quite a bit in NO as the OC. Of course he also went to a bowl game with Cuse. So the old coaches also understood getting to the playoffs which not for a crap game against Oakland and Texans might have happened.

Not sure if this is a serious post

 

If it is...just take a step back and think about what you are saying.....and see if you dont understand why it is so wrong

[Buffalo Barbarian]

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/06/22/vic-caruccis-take-five-bills-offseason-workouts/

 

"Intensive teaching. The coaches identified plenty that was wrong with the fundamentals of returning players. Although no one from the current staff is going to take public shots at the former staff, there is a clear sense that the new group doesn’t think all that highly of the some of the work done by the predecessors."

 

 

Yikes at that entire paragraph. Just another reason to believe that this is going to be a fun year - our guys may actually know how to play NFL football!

 

surprising that we won 9 games

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Your comments hardly ever contribute to discussion. Your posts all take the same basic formula: w2atd = wcd

 

 

Here it is broken down:

 

What Would a Troll Do = What Chan Does

BRAVO !!! and no rebuttal again good job!!!

 

and cue FireChan, in 3 2 1 ....

[CSBill]

As stated above, the rest of the paragraph singles out Manuel, receivers, and OL. Coaching shortcomings for Manuel could be argued as a combination of Marrone/Hackett (last two years) and the QB coach last year. Relative to receivers, Moore's only coaching experience prior was Syracuse. To me the OL comment especially about techniqes is especially damning for Marrone - who was supposed to be spending so mch time with the OL and that being his 'specialty'.

 

So glad those clowns are gone. Still so crazy to think they would all still be here if Marrone just said 'OK, I'll stay'

 

I'm glad he's gone, and so far the new regime sounds good. But even with all the shortcomings of the last two years, we were still 9-7 and just one game away form the play-offs. Which speaks to the talent level on the team. Lets hope the improved coaching gets us over the hump.

[MDH]

Your comments hardly ever contribute to discussion. Your posts all take the same basic formula: w2atd = wcd

 

 

Here it is broken down:

 

What Would a Troll Do = What Chan Does

 

I'm not a fan of FireChan's posts but I wouldn't go this far. In fact, he contributes quite a bit to the board in that he helps create debate. Without some posters taking a contrarian view it would get incredibly boring having everybody generally agree on most topics. Of course, the posters that do this will be labeled "trolls" and be vilified but without them it would be a more stale environment.

 

All that being said, I'm not sure I've ever agreed with FireChan but I do appreciate that he usually keeps his cool despite all the vitriol thrown his way.

[klos63]

From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl?

i haven't checked to confirm, but weren't they both on a Ravens super bowl team?

[Kelly the Dog]

i haven't checked to confirm, but weren't they both on a Ravens super bowl team?

Rex was in 2000. Roman was there 2006-2007 I think when they didn't win a bowl.

[Solomon Grundy]

I highly doubt that. He seems far too arrogant to think like that. If anything, he felt he was smarter than the Bills FO and wanted out to somewhere he could have more control and be revered for his 'genius.'

 

Need a target and arrow emoji right now!!

I think it's unrealistic to give Roman a complete pass on the season last year. Who worked with Kaep when he melted down?

Do I think Roman was the chief reason the team was out of whack last year? No. Do I hold him at least a tiny bit responsible? Yes. You don't get a free pass just because your HC was also bad.

Was Harbaugh or the FO responsible for the 49ers backslide? I mean Harbaugh got another job and a number of players left the team either by FA or retirement. I don't remember any of them quitting on Harbaugh.

[C.Biscuit97]

Need a target and arrow emoji right now!!

 

Was Harbaugh or the FO responsible for the 49ers backslide? I mean Harbaugh got another job and a number of players left the team either by FA or retirement. I don't remember any of them quitting on Harbaugh.

It's funny the use of trainwreck. They went 8-8 in one of the best divisions in the NFL. Defenses played Kaepernick differently, much like Vick, and he struggled to adjust. They also had a bunch of injuries.

[Heitz]

 

I didn't think that was a small thing at all. When I first heard that interview I was rolling. He took direct shots at Marrone, said he wouldn't have come back had there not been a coaching change, and raved about what a difference it makes to have competent coach's who are actually excited to coach.

 

It's a must listen interview. SHOTS FIRED!

 

What does Hughes know? Is he even a member of TBD? If not, he has no credibility to speak about what's going on internally with the Buffalo Bills...

 

[GunnerBill]

 

Was Harbaugh or the FO responsible for the 49ers backslide? I mean Harbaugh got another job and a number of players left the team either by FA or retirement. I don't remember any of them quitting on Harbaugh.

 

Oh the problems started in the locker room - it started as a rebellion against Harbaugh. I think Jim Harbaugh is a good football coach and he is a guy who can have an immediate impact.... but he is too intense... it cost him a Superbowl where his team came out so wired that they completely tightened up and by the time they let loose and started to play the game had all but gone and it also explains why he grates on guys after a while.

 

The front office then didn't help. The best way to quell a rebellion was to give Harbaugh a new contract and show that the organisation was behind him, which would have encouraged the players to fall in line. Instead they undermined him, especially when news was leaked that they considered trading him to the Browns.

[eball]

 

Oh the problems started in the locker room - it started as a rebellion against Harbaugh. I think Jim Harbaugh is a good football coach and he is a guy who can have an immediate impact.... but he is too intense... it cost him a Superbowl where his team came out so wired that they completely tightened up and by the time they let loose and started to play the game had all but gone and it also explains why he grates on guys after a while.

 

The front office then didn't help. The best way to quell a rebellion was to give Harbaugh a new contract and show that the organisation was behind him, which would have encouraged the players to fall in line. Instead they undermined him, especially when news was leaked that they considered trading him to the Browns.

 

The very reasons why Harbaugh ultimately failed in the NFL will serve him well in college -- I think he's probably the perfect college coach. Players only have to listen to him for 3-4 years and are constantly rotating through. UM is going to be back in the national picture very soon.

Edited June 25, 2015 by eball

[chris heff]

It's funny the use of trainwreck. They went 8-8 in one of the best divisions in the NFL. Defenses played Kaepernick differently, much like Vick, and he struggled to adjust. They also had a bunch of injuries.

I don't think that "train wreck" necessarily refers only to the 49ers record. The situation with Harbaugh was hanging over that team all season. The FO didn't try and fix it they fueled it. Everything that has happened since just confirms what a mess they are.

 

The Bills were considered a train wreck when Marrone quit and Polian turned Pegula down, however the moves made by the Bills since then have them in playoff discussions. The Bills took adversity and dealt with it. The 49ers not so much.