OldTimer1960 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 This team was attempting to build a very strong defense to keep it in contention while they added young talent to the offense. The team was intended to win with defense and not lose the game on offense. This is illustrated by the selection of EJ Manuel as it's QB. I think that Manuel can be a competent starter with a very good defense to take pressure off of him and significant talent around him on offense. However, I don't see Manuel as a top 5 QB. Who can carry a team on his back. I felt that the Bills' strategy of building a very strong D and adding offensive talent around Manuel was a good one. Unfortunately, the defense that was the foundation of the team has crumbled this offseason - mostly through no fault of the organization. Byrd didn't want to be here, so one Pro Bowl defender gone. Then the Browns hired DC Mike Pettiness away leaving Jim Schwartz and his whack wide-9 scheme in its place. Next, talented but under-achieving Marcell Dareus put himself in position to be suspended. Finally (hopefully), the Bills lost their only starting caliber LB. (Alonzo). The team is now left with 3-4 personnel trying to play a 4-3- likely missing Dareus for a chunk ofmthenseason. I would venture to say that the defense went from potentially very good to a liability with perhaps a bottom 10 defense. The offense now has some young talent at WR and OL, with an inexperienced QB who has shown enough to be hopeful that he could become an effective game manager. Unfortunately, they really needed to focus on winning 14-10, but now they'll be lucky to hold many opponents below 25-30 points - that is a pace that this young O could not sustain for an entire half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Unfortunately, they really needed to focus on winning 14-10, but now they'll be lucky to hold many opponents below 25-30 points - that is a pace that this young O could not sustain for an entire half why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonWall Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The Bills will win at least 12 games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So, you're a "glass half empty" guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The season is still months away and already the Doomsday Scenarios abound!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The season is still months away and already the Doomsday Scenarios abound!! I'm trying to figure out if this is a Kiko thread, but, I didn't think he was worth 20 points/game so I'm waiting for verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 old timer, on this one I think your running down the hall with your hair on fire. You place lots of good posts, but I don't see it the same. We have talent to play a 4-3 and 3-4. last year we lined up as much in a 4-3 as a 3-4. They added nice depth in needed positions with drafting Brown, and more importantly picking up Graham which is a nice find at CB but could also be a safety, Spikes who will bolster against the run, and Nigel is better suited for the Will in a 4-3. Kiko will hurt, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling. We'll be fine partner. What disappoints me is my hopes were very high with an improved offensive pass play, a better more athletic bigger line means a better run, so more ball control, and a more well rested defense. I thought Kiko moving to the Will meant he breaks out this year even more, and we have a punishing defense. With that said, losing him doesn't mean we will suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 old timer, on this one I think your running down the hall with your hair on fire. You place lots of good posts, but I don't see it the same. We have talent to play a 4-3 and 3-4. last year we lined up as much in a 4-3 as a 3-4. They added nice depth in needed positions with drafting Brown, and more importantly picking up Graham which is a nice find at CB but could also be a safety, Spikes who will bolster against the run, and Nigel is better suited for the Will in a 4-3. Kiko will hurt, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling. We'll be fine partner. What disappoints me is my hopes were very high with an improved offensive pass play, a better more athletic bigger line means a better run, so more ball control, and a more well rested defense. I thought Kiko moving to the Will meant he breaks out this year even more, and we have a punishing defense. With that said, losing him doesn't mean we will suck. So, this is a Kiko thread and it should be closed as a duplicate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So, you're a "glass half empty" guy? Has the glass ever been half full in the past decade, not counting off season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Stay away from sharp objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm trying to figure out if this is a Kiko thread, but, I didn't think he was worth 20 points/game so I'm waiting for verification. Exactly. Obviously you know it is and are nicely saying the idea of one guy going down ruins the season is nuts. The only player who can potentially crash the season is the QB (S). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm trying to figure out if this is a Kiko thread, but, I didn't think he was worth 20 points/game so I'm waiting for verification. lol. same thing I was thinking! Someone earlier said the poster was a glass half full guy... I think someone spilled his milk. This is why the Team drafted Preston Brown. this stuff happens. Sucks that we wont see Kiko this year but this is the best time for this to happen. Better than Third pre season game like last years injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 why? Lost one player. DOOOOOMED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 why? +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Has the glass ever been half full in the past decade, not counting off season? This is the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enlightener Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 so the thread could have gone like this... we lost byrd last season and only have 3 guys in place to take his spot dareus got arrested 2 months ago but will still play kiko got injured. so kiko was worth 20 pts a game??? the new rookie cant tackle or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) This is the offseason. So we have subjected ourselves to all year doom and gloom then? Edited July 3, 2014 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So, this is a Kiko thread and it should be closed as a duplicate? And now is the time for me to enter to tell the world: In like McGlinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm trying to figure out if this is a Kiko thread, Maybe we can swing it to a "the team's future depends on EJ" thread. We can always use another one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm not taking his side on the Doom, but can't you people read??? He's not saying Kiko is worth 20 points. He's saying that a promising strategy is being derailed due to a sequence of bad luck on the defense: losing Byrd, losing Pettine, Dareous' stupidity and possible suspension, and now losing our best linebacker. Add up all of those things and you're arguably talking 20 points - that's what he's saying, and that's why the thread is 'Crumbling Foundation' and not 'Yet another Kiko post'. 20 points? I don't know about that many. But I think the basic point is legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 This team was attempting to build a very strong defense to keep it in contention while they added young talent to the offense. The team was intended to win with defense and not lose the game on offense. This is illustrated by the selection of EJ Manuel as it's QB. I think that Manuel can be a competent starter with a very good defense to take pressure off of him and significant talent around him on offense. However, I don't see Manuel as a top 5 QB. Who can carry a team on his back. I felt that the Bills' strategy of building a very strong D and adding offensive talent around Manuel was a good one. Unfortunately, the defense that was the foundation of the team has crumbled this offseason - mostly through no fault of the organization. Byrd didn't want to be here, so one Pro Bowl defender gone. Then the Browns hired DC Mike Pettiness away leaving Jim Schwartz and his whack wide-9 scheme in its place. Next, talented but under-achieving Marcell Dareus put himself in position to be suspended. Finally (hopefully), the Bills lost their only starting caliber LB. (Alonzo). The team is now left with 3-4 personnel trying to play a 4-3- likely missing Dareus for a chunk ofmthenseason. I would venture to say that the defense went from potentially very good to a liability with perhaps a bottom 10 defense. The offense now has some young talent at WR and OL, with an inexperienced QB who has shown enough to be hopeful that he could become an effective game manager. Unfortunately, they really needed to focus on winning 14-10, but now they'll be lucky to hold many opponents below 25-30 points - that is a pace that this young O could not sustain for an entire half It took me longer than I thought it would, but I did expect someone on the board to panic. I'm not sure why though. Injuries happen. No team can expect every starter to make it through the year, or even start the year. Good teams overcome injuries and it's as simple as that. Other players step up to fill the void. So this is the year we'll find out if the Bills are a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 As Mike Rowe would say, "If Bills OLB, Kiko Alanzo can't play this year, their season could be over." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 This team was attempting to build a very strong defense to keep it in contention while they added young talent to the offense. The team was intended to win with defense and not lose the game on offense. This is illustrated by the selection of EJ Manuel as it's QB. I think that Manuel can be a competent starter with a very good defense to take pressure off of him and significant talent around him on offense. However, I don't see Manuel as a top 5 QB. Who can carry a team on his back. I felt that the Bills' strategy of building a very strong D and adding offensive talent around Manuel was a good one. Unfortunately, the defense that was the foundation of the team has crumbled this offseason - mostly through no fault of the organization. Byrd didn't want to be here, so one Pro Bowl defender gone. Then the Browns hired DC Mike Pettiness away leaving Jim Schwartz and his whack wide-9 scheme in its place. Next, talented but under-achieving Marcell Dareus put himself in position to be suspended. Finally (hopefully), the Bills lost their only starting caliber LB. (Alonzo). The team is now left with 3-4 personnel trying to play a 4-3- likely missing Dareus for a chunk ofmthenseason. I would venture to say that the defense went from potentially very good to a liability with perhaps a bottom 10 defense. The offense now has some young talent at WR and OL, with an inexperienced QB who has shown enough to be hopeful that he could become an effective game manager. Unfortunately, they really needed to focus on winning 14-10, but now they'll be lucky to hold many opponents below 25-30 points - that is a pace that this young O could not sustain for an entire half This is such crap. I'm so sick of refuting this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So we have subjected ourselves to all year soon and gloom then? I say, "The glass is half full!" (Unfortunately, it's half full of sh*t) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's in My Blood Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Bottom line : We have depth across the board. Kiko/Dareus/Byrd will not make or break this team. It's on the offense & Manuel to take it to another level. I'm pissed because I won't get to see Kiko this year, but losing him doesn't change my positive outlook for the Bills this year. 10-6 maybe 11-5. The drought ends this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm not taking his side on the Doom, but can't you people read??? He's not saying Kiko is worth 20 points. He's saying that a promising strategy is being derailed due to a sequence of bad luck on the defense: losing Byrd, losing Pettine, Dareous' stupidity and possible suspension, and now losing our best linebacker. Add up all of those things and you're arguably talking 20 points - that's what he's saying, and that's why the thread is 'Crumbling Foundation' and not 'Yet another Kiko post'. 20 points? I don't know about that many. But I think the basic point is legit. We weren't any better or worse with Byrd in last year. Schwartz could very well improve our defense- at least he should against the run and if Darues gets suspended it'll be for a game or two at most. Yes the Kiko thing sucks, no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 so the thread could have gone like this... we lost byrd last season and only have 3 guys in place to take his spot dareus got arrested 2 months ago but will still play kiko got injured. so kiko was worth 20 pts a game??? the new rookie cant tackle or something? Also lost the Defensive Coordinator who manufactured a lot of pressure with his blitzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Also lost the Defensive Coordinator who manufactured a lot of pressure with his blitzes. What most Pettine fans either ignore or fail to understand is that many of the big runs given up by the defense last year were a direct result of those blitzes. There were many times when a high risk high pressure pass defense was called and a run broke for big yardage because a single player lost gap control and our deep safety didn't react properly. Guess who those players were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The season is still months away and already the Doomsday Scenarios abound!! I would say Doomsday started 14 years ago. I understand why Bills fans live in fear of failure. It has been so long since we have had a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Has the glass ever been half full in the past decade, not counting off season? No. Half full makes me sad so I always top it off. More beer please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 We can get Moats back when the Steelers cut him!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 We can get Moats back when the Steelers cut him!!! Or trade for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Yes. There is NO foundation... just empty holes where Pettine, Byrd, and (presumably for a short time) Dareus once stood tall and proud. Oh, and Kiko. Such a sad thing that his entire career is over after such a brief but bright and promising start. Oh, the misery! There is no hope but Mount Hope. Guess there will be at least one fewer "fan" watching Bills games this year. I mean, why bother? EJ obviously doesn't have what it takes and it will be painful to watch him singlehandedly losing 10 games for us. There's obviously no Free Safety on the roster, ditto for WLB, and not a single possible substitute for Marcel (if he DOES get a game or two off), and then there's that "wacky" Schwartz - who could stand watching HIS defense for 16 games? He's an idiot™ and unworthy of support from a "true fan". Old Timer, you're definitely old school. School's been out for decades, and unfortunately for you, it sounds like you haven't learned anything since. No foundation. No foundation? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Glass half full/empty? There is no glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I for one am happier the injury happened now, I would much prefer the injury to not happen. But, now we now have time to figure it out and he should be back to full health in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 No. Half full makes me sad so I always top it off. More beer please. :beer: :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Also lost the Defensive Coordinator who manufactured a lot of pressure with his blitzes. and had the worst run defense in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennjay Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I know a serious reply is really out of place here, but anyway: You're overlooking another design to the offense: we're collecting OL behemoths and extra RB's because we plan to run the ball, chew up clock, and keep the D off the field. You think we drafted those guys (and no TE) to pass block this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Unfortunately, they really needed to focus on winning 14-10, but now they'll be lucky to hold many opponents below 25-30 points - that is a pace that this young O could not sustain for an entire half I normally agree with your posts but this is not one of them. Of the sequence you quoted, - we arguably did not have Byrd playing at full strength last year so the loss is important but not much compared to what we got out of him last season - EJ: this is one point everyone agrees on. If he tanks, we are scr**ed - Dareus: Stupidity yes but not sure he will be suspended. Again, last season he was inconsistent so nothing says that he will be any worse. - Kiko: a huge loss for sure but compared to last season, we have more overall talent on the LB'ing side - Pettine: Again a loss but addition of Schwartz significantly reduces that. You may disagree with his schemes but he has been overall successful as a DC in the past, and hence is experienced and we don't know if it is the wide-9 he will use with the Bills All in all, it seems like Kiko's loss pushed you over the edge, but if you compare our overall talent level on D with what we had last year, we are still better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) We are 6-10 with or without Kiko, IMO. I have little confidence in EJ or Marrone. I hope I'm wrong. No, you don't. Edited July 3, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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