Which player is the draft community too low on?

[msw2112]

47 minutes ago, Lofton80 said:

I will give Keon Coleman another vote. He is really smooth and obviously athletic. He played with a QB who scrambled for a lot of off platform throws. He is graded lower than about 7 other receivers. I like him better than Legette and Mitchell.    

 

I'm not a Michigan State or Florida State fan, in fact I dislike both teams.  That said, whenever I've seen Coleman play for those teams, he's been dominant.  Will that translate to the NFL?  I don't know, but he just looks like a guy who plays big in big moments.  I have no idea how he did at the combine, his pro day, or in any all-star games, but he's been great in several games that I've seen across 2 different teams.  I'm also a big fan of Roman Wilson, another guy who seems to be at his best when the stakes are highest.  Wilson made a number of key plays throughout the season and is a major reason why Michigan won the national championship.

[wppete]

Jacob Cowing - WR - Arizona

5’11 - 180

4.38 - 40 yard

 

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

4 minutes ago, wppete said:

Jacob Cowing - WR - Arizona

5’11 - 180

4.38 - 40 yard

 

 

 

Yeah man. Cowing can ball. 

[wppete]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yeah man. Cowing can ball. 

Do you think he will be there in the 5th round? I really hope so, would be a steal if so. 

[LEBills]

7 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I really like him,but would like him a lot more if he weighed 10lbs more.  I also have an issue with him weaving everywhere in the gauntlet during the combine.

 

But whatever Beane thinks.

His hands are not the best and the gauntlet exposed that. I’ve watched enough of him to think it’ll be ok in the NFL but if he were to just be a role player rather than a good WR, I think that would be the reason - think Nelson Agholar. I’m not worried about the weight, he has the frame to add weight and is the fourth youngest WR in the class. (And  he weighed in at 183 at his pro day).

[BillsWest]

Maybe it was the blue field, but every time I got to see George Holani play, he made plays.  Late round flyer or free agent, I could see him being a hit in Buffalo.

[Mark Vader]

5 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Spencer Rattler...put him on Washington, or LSU, or Oregon, or Michigan or Florida State or whatever and I just wonder if the results are different. There is something about him...I'm not typically a small quarterback guy, but I find him interesting in terms of the arm talent and athleticism. The wrist flick on some of his deep throws are just different. 

 

His college film isn't much different than Patrick Mahomes' was. I think if Rattler gets in the right situation he will make it. 

Wow!

I really like your takes when it comes to the draft and the players, but this post from you surprises me.

 

I've never been impressed with Rattler. I just don't think he's lived up to the hype. Unless there is something that he hasn't shown us, I cannot picture him making it in the NFL.

That being said, I respect your analysis.

[BillsfaninSB]

Dallin Holker - TE Colorado State

 

Probably can get him in the 5th round.   Will be a solid TE.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

He started at OU and sucked.  

Ladd McConkey 

Lots of people start at OU and suck

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, Dillenger4 said:

Latu - he should be top 10. If he falls to 15-18 we move up. Boom

Seen every game he's played.  Over-rated...he's not a game wrecker.

[MrEpsYtown]

56 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Wow!

I really like your takes when it comes to the draft and the players, but this post from you surprises me.

 

I've never been impressed with Rattler. I just don't think he's lived up to the hype. Unless there is something that he hasn't shown us, I cannot picture him making it in the NFL.

That being said, I respect your analysis.

I appreciate the kind words. 

100% he never lived up to the hype. But part of me wonders if anyone can really live up to all that crazy hype he came in with. Apparently he was very entitled and from all reports, seems to have matured quite a bit, had a very solid senior bowl week and the brief time he had in the game he was excellent. I get the feeling he is in a different place and I just don’t think all those tools just go away. My biggest issue with him is his size and the turnovers. 

I don’t think he is necessarily going to be the next coming of Tom Brady, but to answer the OP’s original question, I think he is being slept on quite a bit. Definitely flaws in his game, but I just think there is something there. With all the turnovers, he makes some ridiculous NFL level throws. Perhaps he really is one of the biggest busts of all time. 
 

He has played a lot of football, and if he hits, there could be a huge upside there. It’s the definition of boom or bust imo. 

Edited April 10 by MrEpsYtown
Didn’t realize he was MVP of the senior bowl

[MiracleAtRich1393]

6 hours ago, zevo said:

Him and legette 

Franklin @ 28, Legette in a trade up from 60 and we're set for a while. Speed to burn

[OldTimer1960]

10 hours ago, wppete said:

Jacob Cowing - WR - Arizona

5’11 - 180

4.38 - 40 yard

 

 

 

He measured 5’8” and 168lbs at the combine, but he is very fast and quick.

[MrEpsYtown]

This Ricky Pearsall seems to be very underrated. 4.41 speed, ok size, great route runner, really good hands, high points the ball and has a bunch of savvy in his game. He’s a little older like Leggette. He had a really good senior bowl week. Then he goes to the combine and jumps out of the gym and runs a crazy 3 cone time. I know he is probably a victim of the depth of this class, but the dude can play and a lot of his game translates to the NFL game. He is also a good fit here. He runs a ton of option routes but he also eats in that intermediate area of the field that Josh loves to attack. A couple of comps I have seen are Christian Kirk and Julian Edelman…I can see it. I think he’s mostly a slot guy who can play outside but isn’t that traditional big X everyone is clamoring for. I like this player and I think he is definitely underrated.
 

 

 

Edited April 10 by MrEpsYtown

[stinky finger]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

Ja’lynn Polk.  He has great hands, possesses physicality, run blocking ability, contested catches and is a threat downfield.   And he already has an nfl body.  That’s my guy.  

Do you envision him at #60? 

[Ayjent]

13 hours ago, HaldimandBills said:

Who are you taking?

 

Polk or Coleman?

McConkey or Pearsall?

Thomas Jr or Franklin?

Mitchell or Legette?

 

Thats not even mentioning 

 

Burton, Wilson, Swift, Washington, Rice

 

This draft is loaded 

 

Those are all easy questions until you get to Legette or Mitchell which I’d take Mitchell but see the attraction of Legette and think Legette may actually be more suited for the Bills under Brady, but see Mitchell as the higher probability of NFL success with his length, speed and route running.  
 

Polk all day over Coleman, McConkey is a way better route runner and separator against man than Pearsall, Thomas Jr is way better than Franklin (who I think may be the most overhyped WR prospect in the bunch).

 

I like the idea of double dipping at WR bc of the talent and second contracts are expensive at the position although eventually teams will wise up on paying big contracts to WRs if the talent pipeline continues to be solid. A lot needs to go right for a WR to be effective and I understand why the position is valued with current offenses.  The truth is that you still need good protection and a good qb to get the value. The Bills have the QB, and just one ? on the OL.  If they went Center in the first two rounds I wouldn’t be upset either. 

[Ayjent]

50 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

This Ricky Pearsall seems to be very underrated. 4.41 speed, ok size, great route runner, really good hands, high points the ball and has a bunch of savvy in his game. He’s a little older like Leggette. He had a really good senior bowl week. Then he goes to the combine and jumps out of the gym and runs a crazy 3 cone time. I know he is probably a victim of the depth of this class, but the dude can play and a lot of his game translates to the NFL game. He is also a good fit here. He runs a ton of option routes but he also eats in that intermediate area of the field that Josh loves to attack. A couple of comps I have seen are Christian Kirk and Julian Edelman…I can see it. I think he’s mostly a slot guy who can play outside but isn’t that traditional big X everyone is clamoring for. I like this player and I think he is definitely underrated.
 

 

 

He’s a good player but he gets shut down against tight physical man coverage.  I think he’s rated about right if not a little overvalued.  I’m not saying he can’t work on his game and technique to get better against man, but he was expected to be a bigger impact player this past year and fell a bit short of expectations.  He had a good college career, but there are limitations in his game.  He could be as effective as Gabe was, but that’s about it, although different set of pluses and minuses.  I don’t see the rote running of Edelman at all, like not even close, and I’m wondering who made that comp and how much they actually watched him play. He’s a crafty guy that gets where is supposed to be and excels against zone with good hands and ball skills, but physical defenders can impact him a lot. 

[GunnerBill]

My answers here depend a bit on what the question is. Because at this stage the draft media are very much into trying to reflect what they are hearing from teams. 

 

I think the consensus is too low on:

 

Johnny Newton - I think he is the best defensive player in the draft;

Jordan Morgan - I love his footwork, he is a proper offensive tackle, great pass protector;

Christian Haynes - Again great feet, good movement skills, finishes his blocks;

DJ James - I think he is in the conversation for the next best corner after the top 5 guys who could go round 1 (Mitchell, Arnold, McKinstry, DeJean and Wiggins). Physical, sticky cover guy.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

16 hours ago, Logic said:

Just as the title says. In your opinion, what player is the draft community too low on, that you think will (or at least should) be drafted higher than where the analysts and the draftniks have him going currently?

I'll start:

Troy Franklin, WR, Oregon.

I get it, it's a great WR class. Still, for all you hear about the big three, Brian Thomas, AD Mitchell, Xavier Worthy, Keon Coleman...Troy Franklin tends to be an afterthought. Yes, he's skinny. He's also fast, silky smooth, has legitimate ability to win deep, and posted quality production at Oregon the past two years, including 1383 yards and 14 touchdowns in 2023. To me, he's akin to a Devonta Smith, Chris Olave type, if perhaps a step down (though not a big one) in overall talent from those two.

I think everyone is too low on Troy Franklin. I'm not sure that, after the big three receivers, he's not the next best guy. I like him a lot.

So who's yours? Which player is the draft community too low on?

 

I'll be honest, at the end last season when I started pouring over draft profiles, Franklin was the top of my "get a vertical X receiver" list.

 

My only issue was "I don't think he's a WR1, can command the type of gravity that Diggs did in his prime"

 

Had the plan been "Get an outside guy to stop double coverage on Diggs" I would have been thrilled with him at 28. If Beane has a plan to get a #1 I am all onboard. But I worry about him carrying the load.

 

16 hours ago, NewEra said:

Ja’lynn Polk.  He has great hands, possesses physicality, run blocking ability, contested catches and is a threat downfield.   And he already has an nfl body.  That’s my guy.  

Peter Schrager gave him an endorsement the other night, and an insider shared that scouts really like him. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Polk is a dawg.  Reminds me of Justin Jefferson getting over shadowed by Chase at LSU and everybody thinking he was just a possession receiver.  

[MrEpsYtown]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

My answers here depend a bit on what the question is. Because at this stage the draft media are very much into trying to reflect what they are hearing from teams. 

 

I think the consensus is too low on:

 

Johnny Newton - I think he is the best defensive player in the draft;

Jordan Morgan - I love his footwork, he is a proper offensive tackle, great pass protector;

Christian Haynes - Again great feet, good movement skills, finishes his blocks;

DJ James - I think he is in the conversation for the next best corner after the top 5 guys who could go round 1 (Mitchell, Arnold, McKinstry, DeJean and Wiggins). Physical, sticky cover guy.

 

People seem to be all over the place on Newton, but I like him. I have seen him mocked late second early third, in the teens, and everywhere in between. I think he goes in the 20s like Mazi Smith last year. A bunch of people had him in round two last year. \

 

Haynes is interesting. High RAS, guy with length etc. I have spent a lot of time with the Uconn Oline coach and he does a really good job that's why they are suddenly becoming a sleeper OL factory. Gordie Sammis who was at William and Mary before Jim Mora hired him. 

13 hours ago, wppete said:

Do you think he will be there in the 5th round? I really hope so, would be a steal if so. 

 

Would be a huge steal in the 5th IMO. 

[CNYfan]

I am still saying Malik Washington WR Virginia.     great mid to late round value.   dominated in a poor offense against good competition

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

People seem to be all over the place on Newton, but I like him.

 

Yea I know Connor Rodgers from PFF (who was on the Stick to Football Podcast with Matt Miller back in the day) also has him as his #1 ranked defensive player but I've seen others who don't have him as a first round grade. That is mad to me. His tape is flat out dominant. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Brandon Coleman from TCU is another I like. He played tackle and guard and is probably a guard at the next level. I could see him going in round 2-3. Most people have him in the 5th or 6th. 

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Do you envision him at #60? 

Some do, but I think we’d have to trade up for him.  

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Brandon Coleman from TCU is another I like. He played tackle and guard and is probably a guard at the next level. I could see him going in round 2-3. Most people have him in the 5th or 6th. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. I have a 4th on him. I like him as a LG. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Xavier Thomas was once one of the top 5 recruit. He has elite tools and minimal production. I’d buy that lottery ticket with one of those 4ths all day long. He could end up being really good. He might suck. I’ll gamble on talent with question marks in the back half of the draft. 

[MrEpsYtown]

44 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Xavier Thomas was once one of the top 5 recruit. He has elite tools and minimal production. I’d buy that lottery ticket with one of those 4ths all day long. He could end up being really good. He might suck. I’ll gamble on talent with question marks in the back half of the draft. 

 

I feel like there is a situational pass rusher in there somewhere. 

1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

I am still saying Malik Washington WR Virginia.     great mid to late round value.   dominated in a poor offense against good competition

 

I wish he was a little faster and a little bigger, but he can really play. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

This Ricky Pearsall seems to be very underrated. 4.41 speed, ok size, great route runner, really good hands, high points the ball and has a bunch of savvy in his game. He’s a little older like Leggette. He had a really good senior bowl week. Then he goes to the combine and jumps out of the gym and runs a crazy 3 cone time. I know he is probably a victim of the depth of this class, but the dude can play and a lot of his game translates to the NFL game. He is also a good fit here. He runs a ton of option routes but he also eats in that intermediate area of the field that Josh loves to attack. A couple of comps I have seen are Christian Kirk and Julian Edelman…I can see it. I think he’s mostly a slot guy who can play outside but isn’t that traditional big X everyone is clamoring for. I like this player and I think he is definitely underrated.
 

 

 

 

 

I'm not high on that skillset for the Bills in round 2 because they have Kincaid/Shakir/Samuel who are all best used inside as well........but being that he will be a 24 year old rookie it wouldn't shock me if he fell into round 4.    At which point he is great value with a high floor.   Shakir had some nice numbers and tape and he fell, so I could see Pearsall being that guy in this draft.   I'm not a big Ladd McConkey guy either,  which I know is blasphemous because he is the route-God to people in this draft.    I'm looking more for players with the physicality to excel in the playoffs.

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Yep. I have a 4th on him. I like him as a LG. 

 

Yeah it's such a good draft for OL talent.   If the Bills don't get a couple with those 10 picks I will be disappointed.   The iron is hot at WR/OL/CB and if you don't take them now you can end up reaching for them in subsequent drafts.

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'm not high on that skillset for the Bills in round 2 because they have Kincaid/Shakir/Samuel who are all best used inside as well........but being that he will be a 24 year old rookie it wouldn't shock me if he fell into round 4.    At which point he is great value with a high floor.   Shakir had some nice numbers and tape and he fell, so I could see Pearsall being that guy in this draft.   I'm not a big Ladd McConkey guy either,  which I know is blasphemous because he is the route-God to people in this draft.    I'm looking more for players with the physicality to excel in the playoffs.

 

Yeah it's such a good draft for OL talent.   If the Bills don't get a couple with those 10 picks I will be disappointed.   The iron is hot at WR/OL/CB and if you don't take them now you can end up reaching for them in subsequent drafts.

 

 I like Pearsall/McConkey as the 2nd guy. I like Pearsall more than MCConkey a little bit just because the skill set and explosion, but also the production. But if they came away with just one of those guys I would be very disappointed. 

[buffalostu2]

Zach Frazier C West Virginia.  I think he will push for the 1st center off the board.   Plays with good strength and technique.  Stays low unlike Powers

[CNYfan]

If I had the #1 I would not draft Caleb Williams.  Turned off in a few different ways.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

6 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Do you envision him at #60? 

RE: Jalynn Polk. 

He looks like an alpha to me. 

Steve Smith said the same. 

Plays with a real edge. 

[OldTimer1960]

On 4/9/2024 at 2:09 PM, Logic said:

Just as the title says. In your opinion, what player is the draft community too low on, that you think will (or at least should) be drafted higher than where the analysts and the draftniks have him going currently?

I'll start:

Troy Franklin, WR, Oregon.

I get it, it's a great WR class. Still, for all you hear about the big three, Brian Thomas, AD Mitchell, Xavier Worthy, Keon Coleman...Troy Franklin tends to be an afterthought. Yes, he's skinny. He's also fast, silky smooth, has legitimate ability to win deep, and posted quality production at Oregon the past two years, including 1383 yards and 14 touchdowns in 2023. To me, he's akin to a Devonta Smith, Chris Olave type, if perhaps a step down (though not a big one) in overall talent from those two.

I think everyone is too low on Troy Franklin. I'm not sure that, after the big three receivers, he's not the next best guy. I like him a lot.

So who's yours? Which player is the draft community too low on?

Hi game tape is pretty good to my fan’s eye and Franklin’s athletic testing at the combine was very good, but I just can’t get his field work at the combine out of my head - it stuck out to me as pretty bad for a guy who will never be able to win with size and strength to have that much trouble in the gauntlet and also stumble more than once running patterns with no defender there at the combine.

 

If they like him, I will get on board, but if he is the best WR available at 28, then I’m betting there will be better prospects at other positions like DE, DT, CB, OT - all premium positions and those defensive positions are all big needs either immediately or in some cases for 2025.

[DCOrange]

Working off of this consensus big board: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024

 

I would go with Javon Baker and Jacob Cowing at WR. Both are top 10 WRs in this class IMO.

 

The consensus big board still has Drake Maye as the #2 prospect in the class, but it feels like a lot of the people in the mainstream media are pushing him down their boards and I think that's a major mistake.

[LEBills]

19 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Working off of this consensus big board: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024

 

I would go with Javon Baker and Jacob Cowing at WR. Both are top 10 WRs in this class IMO.

 

The consensus big board still has Drake Maye as the #2 prospect in the class, but it feels like a lot of the people in the mainstream media are pushing him down their boards and I think that's a major mistake.

If say a Jonny Newton falls to us at 28, I’d be pretty happy with him Baker and Cowing

[OldTimer1960]

31 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Working off of this consensus big board: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024

 

I would go with Javon Baker and Jacob Cowing at WR. Both are top 10 WRs in this class IMO.

 

The consensus big board still has Drake Maye as the #2 prospect in the class, but it feels like a lot of the people in the mainstream media are pushing him down their boards and I think that's a major mistake.

Where do you envision that Cowing would play?  He is very short and light.

[DCOrange]

15 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Where do you envision that Cowing would play?  He is very short and light.

Almost certainly will have to play in the slot.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

I would go with Javon Baker and Jacob Cowing at WR. Both are top 10 WRs in this class IMO.

 

I've heard from my source that Baker doesn't interview well and may struggle to learn an NFL playbook.

[DCOrange]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I've heard from my source that Baker doesn't interview well and may struggle to learn an NFL playbook.

Perhaps so. I won't pretend I have those sorts of connections; I can only go off the film and metrics. Based on those two things, I would say he's a 2nd rounder. If teams just don't think he'll be able to develop then I get passing on him.