First to third round picks used on every position for every NFL team (past 5 years)

[Einstein]

 

 

Edited February 13 by Einstein

[hondo in seattle]

The Bills' goose egg for WR stands out.

 

When you've got a good gun, wouldn't you want to buy ammunition?  

[Chicken Boo]

5 years and not one 1st-3rd round pick on a wideout is strange.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

The Bills' goose egg for WR stands out.

 

When you've got a good gun, wouldn't you want to buy ammunition?  

Zero WR's.  Jesus. KC 3, SF 4.

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

5 years and not one 1st-3rd round pick on a wideout is strange.  

Not when McDermott is your HC.  

[LABILLBACKER]

Anyone who thinks McDermott didn't have majority share in draft decisions is naive.  Anyone who thought McDermott would supplement Diggs with more drafted wrs is naive. Sean was always going to emphasize D.  It's who he is. Just keep telling Superman to save the day.

[GunnerBill]

It goes back further. Buffalo and Tampa have both gone since 2017 without drafting a day 1 or 2 wide receiver. 

 

It is ridiculous. And Beane should be held to account for it.

[Warriorspikes51]

It’s time to make that WR count 2.  
 

Surrounding Allen with weapons on rookie contracts gives us a great chance.

 

if Kincaid can become some version of “Kelce lite” this season and you add a couple dynamic WR’s to go with Shakir who has become an extremely dependable target with some nice YAC

 

we’re in good shape!!

Edited February 13 by Warriorspikes51

[Billl]

11 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

The Bills' goose egg for WR stands out.

 

When you've got a good gun, wouldn't you want to buy ammunition?  

They gave up a first rounder and then some for Diggs, and Kincaid is basically a slot receiver.

Edited February 13 by Billl

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Anyone who thinks McDermott didn't have majority share in draft decisions is naive.  Anyone who thought McDermott would supplement Diggs with more drafted wrs is naive. Sean was always going to emphasize D.  It's who he is. Just keep telling Superman to save the day.

Out of curiosity give me your 1s-3rd round WR draft picks from 2020-2023.

[Kaenon]

18 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

5 years and not one 1st-3rd round pick on a wideout is strange.  

We did trade a 1st for Diggs though, so we spent a 1st on a WR

[Prospector]

I say we draft Limas Sweed, Malcom Kelly, and James Hardy with our 1st 3 picks

[JimBob2232]

A little misleading as technically we traded a first for Diggs.  

 

But the bigger alarm is three RBs.   I had to look to validate that.  I remember cook, but forgot Singletary and moss were in there as 3rd rounders.  Big difference if one of them was a productive WR, LB or DB last year.

 

But I cant fault Beane/McDermott here.  Drafting has been top notch.  Sure we wish we could hit MORE - but I'd venture to say our hit rate is in the top tier.

 

It's pretty incredible actually the late round "Hits".  Gabe Davis, Benford, Spector, Teller, Shakir, Hamlin, Hodgins, Dane, Teller, McCloud, Neal.... Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss.

 

You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good.

[Don Otreply]

It’s really sad to look at this, McDermott and Beane really need to change things up, it’s been five years of our defense first thought process  failing in the clutch moments in the post season, let’s all email blast OBD every week up to the draft, thousands  of emails and billboards as well, let’s put some pressure on these guys, Go Bills Mafia, get a go fund me going, getter done  😂😁🤣 

 

does anyone think either of those guys think about a different draft strategy?  I don’t think they ever do…,

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Tenhigh]

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It goes back further. Buffalo and Tampa have both gone since 2017 without drafting a day 1 or 2 wide receiver. 

 

It is ridiculous. And Beane should be held to account for it.

I mean the Diggs trade is essenrially a round 1 WR pick, but I generally agree that with the sentiment.

[Tenhigh]

25 minutes ago, JimBob2232 said:

A little misleading as technically we traded a first for Diggs.  

 

But the bigger alarm is three RBs.   I had to look to validate that.  I remember cook, but forgot Singletary and moss were in there as 3rd rounders.  Big difference if one of them was a productive WR, LB or DB last year.

 

But I cant fault Beane/McDermott here.  Drafting has been top notch.  Sure we wish we could hit MORE - but I'd venture to say our hit rate is in the top tier.

 

It's pretty incredible actually the late round "Hits".  Gabe Davis, Benford, Spector, Teller, Shakir, Hamlin, Hodgins, Dane, Teller, McCloud, Neal.... Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss.

 

You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good.

Maybe we should trade all of our 1-3rd rounders to get the entire 5th round, Beane is a wizard!

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

The Bills' goose egg for WR stands out.

 

When you've got a good gun, wouldn't you want to buy ammunition?  

The 1 CB/S also stands out especially because the kid is a bust.  The 4 DL also stands out considering we only have two of the four on the roster.  

[Maine-iac]

Baltimore and Indy out there proving you need to take WR's early and often.  Passing powerhouses.  

[HardyBoy]

45 minutes ago, Prospector said:

I say we draft Limas Sweed, Malcom Kelly, and James Hardy with our 1st 3 picks

 

I was so excited for Hardy, just unfortunate all around

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

It goes back further. Buffalo and Tampa have both gone since 2017 without drafting a day 1 or 2 wide receiver. 

 

It is ridiculous. And Beane should be held to account for it.

 

What are your thoughts on the team building strategy of finding value (not necessarily cheap) veteran wrs on one year deals instead of drafting if you are concerned you don't have the cap to sign them longterm? 

 

Thinking about production curves, you're probably going to be getting more production from the veteran during their rookie season and I would think equal production from the next season's veteran as the then 2nd year draft pick.

 

Is the real problem (at least for that strategy) the over complicated offense, especially at the receiver position? Or maybe is that why beane isn't drafting a receiver? (My guess is he's not drafting one because of below, but the one's he's bringing in are not thriving because it's overly complex...Beasley is a football genius and John Brown succeeded when Allen was doing a lot of half field reads, though the offense might have gotten really complex by 2020, though guessing that was more in 2021 and onward)

 

Is there more value in drafting an upside lb that you think you can turn into a top 10 lb and see Bernard level production from them over years 2-4 of their rookie deal vs drafting a wr and having them not really add significant value over a potential one year deal veteran until the third year of their rookie deal and then you need to make a decision on getting a value extension or a fifth year option on just that one year of performance growth? Since so many receivers seem to have more of an exponential growth curve that doesn't start to really spike until year three (per the general talk people who probably know nothing about what they're actually saying...like me...about wr development, which is why I'm asking you)

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

What are your thoughts on the team building strategy of finding value (not necessarily cheap) veteran wrs on one year deals instead of drafting if you are concerned you don't have the cap to sign them longterm? 

 

Thinking about production curves, you're probably going to be getting more production from the veteran during their rookie season and I would think equal production from the next season's veteran as the then 2nd year draft pick.

 

Is the real problem (at least for that strategy) the over complicated offense, especially at the receiver position? Or maybe is that why beane isn't drafting a receiver? (My guess is he's not drafting one because of below, but the one's he's bringing in are not thriving because it's overly complex...Beasley is a football genius and John Brown succeeded when Allen was doing a lot of half field reads, though the offense might have gotten really complex by 2020, though guessing that was more in 2021 and onward)

 

Is there more value in drafting an upside lb that you think you can turn into a top 10 lb and see Bernard level production from them over years 2-4 of their rookie deal vs drafting a wr and having them not really add significant value over a potential one year deal veteran until the third year of their rookie deal and then you need to make a decision on getting a value extension or a fifth year option on just that one year of performance growth? Since so many receivers seem to have more of an exponential growth curve that doesn't start to really spike until year three (per the general talk people who probably know nothing about what they're actually saying...like me...about wr development, which is why I'm asking you)

 

Some interesting food for thought. The complexity of the offense is definitely a consideration. Gabe had production as a rookie though even if he wasn't an every down player. 

 

They obviously think it is a comparative value thing. But as I said before this is consistent with how and where Beane was brought up in this business. Carolina did not draft receivers early very often in his time there. They drafted DL, LB and RB earlier that most other teams. Beane is following that trend here.

[billsfan89]

8 offensive players (9 if you include the first traded for Diggs) vs. 7 defensive players. Seems like a solid balance. I thought going into the 2021 and 2022 drafts there was an over-investment in defense. But after spending top picks on offense (Kincaid and Torrence were plug-and-play starters) in 2023 I thought they course-corrected. I think this year they have to go top pick at WR and defense in round two. There are going to be some key defensive needs like safety and defensive line so after getting Josh more fire power and a Diggs heir apparent I have no issue helping sure up the defense. Then in round 3 I go BPA at WR or Safety/D-line. 

[HardyBoy]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Some interesting food for thought. The complexity of the offense is definitely a consideration. Gabe had production as a rookie though even if he wasn't an every down player. 

 

They obviously think it is a comparative value thing. But as I said before this is consistent with how and where Beane was brought up in this business. Carolina did not draft receivers early very often in his time there. They drafted DL, LB and RB earlier that most other teams. Beane is following that trend here.

 

I'm sure 2020 still featured a lot of half field reads (I'm assuming that makes it easier for receivers, but probably if it was easier it was because Allen needed routes to be locked in more at that stage of his development), but I think an even bigger factor was the empty stadiums.

 

Basically the first reasonably full away stadium they played in was Arrowhead in the divisional that year and it really looked like it impacted the offense a lot, which could explain the benefit gained from the lack of crowd noise for especially a rookie wr that was winning because of schemed up mismatches a lot.

 

They play hurry up, Allen gets to the line with 20+ seconds on the play clock, Daboll reads the presnap and gives Allen the audibles through the helmet before it cuts off at 15 seconds, Allen is able to communicate it really easily to the receivers and there you have it.

 

I think you're right on this is how Beane has learned and feels deeply is the best way to build a team, but it requires those one year wrs to be able to come in and perform immediately and Beane is too good a talent evaluator for the number of receivers to have come in to all look mediocre like they have the last few seasons.

 

Really hoping that they let these wrs start just playing instead of having to think so damn much all the time. I feel like I am hoping that the offense starts empowering the receivers to beat their match up, instead focusing on having them beat the scheme...just go out there and win the match up and have Allen's eyes/progressions get to the receiver at the moment he'll be able to tell if they won in terms of getting the right leverage on the defense so he can throw with anticipation. 

[Thrivefourfive]

The DLine and Runningbacks room is a major disappointment based on the usage of high draft picks. 

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It goes back further. Buffalo and Tampa have both gone since 2017 without drafting a day 1 or 2 wide receiver. 

 

It is ridiculous. And Beane should be held to account for it.

 

I have zero proof but it just seems improbable that McD has no say in this.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I have zero proof but it just seems improbable that McD has no say in this.

 

Oh he definitely has a say. But Brandon Beane is the guy who runs personnel. He has the final call. It is his decision. And as I have said elsewhere the drafting tendencies Beane has now are the ones he grew up with in Carolina, even before McDermott and he met.

 

Worth adding the one draft that we know McDermott ran he drafted a receiver in the 2nd round. 

Edited February 14 by GunnerBill

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

They gave up a first rounder and then some for Diggs, and Kincaid is basically a slot receiver.

Y’all have Kelce and proceeded to draft back to back RD2 WR’s, trade for a former RD1 and sign MVS & Juju (last year). 
 

Bills traded for Diggs, drafted Davis in RD4, Shakir RD5 and decided Allen can figure it out with tomato cans after the Emmanuel Sanders year.  
 

I know some of the moves haven’t worked out and/or TBD, but along with heavy OL investment, you probably underestimate how much we envy what Veach/Reid have done for Mahomes in relation to Beane/McDermott for Allen. 

[Sweats]

14 hours ago, Kaenon said:

We did trade a 1st for Diggs though, so we spent a 1st on a WR

 

 

Unfortunately, as much as i like Diggs, we should have made a play for Justin Jefferson....Diggs is getting old and slow....JJ is just hitting his prime.

[entropyrules]

14 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

 Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss.

 

You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good.

Not so sure about Moss...he seemed pretty capable when he played for the Colts. Is it possible the Bills didn't utilize him correctly or they (the Bills) missed because his style of play didn't fit how the Bills run the O?

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, entropyrules said:

Not so sure about Moss...he seemed pretty capable when he played for the Colts. Is it possible the Bills didn't utilize him correctly or they (the Bills) missed because his style of play didn't fit how the Bills run the O?

 

Yea Moss suffered from a combination of our style not meshing with his and injuries and a bad oline for some of his time here. I think he was overdrafted though. He was never a 3rd round talent. If they'd picked him rounds 4 or 5 fine. 

[BBFL]

No surprise the most is DBs, OLine, DLine and WR in a pass orientated league. 
 

QB also shows you the lack of talent, or belief of, through the past 5 years also. 

[Captain Hindsight]

18 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

5 years and not one 1st-3rd round pick on a wideout is strange.  

I'm more concerned about how they just want to sit on their hands at QB. The one we got is way to commercialized 

[bigK14094]

18 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

5 years and not one 1st-3rd round pick on a wideout is strange.  

The Diggs trade was essentially giving up a #1 for him.  So, the numbers lie here to that extent.

[Gigs]

Yes this needs to change, but not spending any 1-3s on WR and still having a top offense should be a good indicator of where we can go when we do draft WRs early

[BrooklynBills]

17 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

A little misleading as technically we traded a first for Diggs.  

 

But the bigger alarm is three RBs.   I had to look to validate that.  I remember cook, but forgot Singletary and moss were in there as 3rd rounders.  Big difference if one of them was a productive WR, LB or DB last year.

 

But I cant fault Beane/McDermott here.  Drafting has been top notch.  Sure we wish we could hit MORE - but I'd venture to say our hit rate is in the top tier.

 

It's pretty incredible actually the late round "Hits".  Gabe Davis, Benford, Spector, Teller, Shakir, Hamlin, Hodgins, Dane, Teller, McCloud, Neal.... Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss.

 

You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good.

 

The RB thing is also a bit misleading and I think we need to keep in mind the state of the roster that they inherited, especially on offense. They spent 2 3rds and 1 2nd on RBs since they've been here but the Bill hadn't selected a RB before the 5th round since CJ Spiller in 2010. They inherited a team with an aging McCoy and basically nothing behind him. Even looking at the best offenses in the NFL, they have all spent multiple day 1 and 2 picks over a period of 5 years. The age quotient of the position means that you cannot continually keep trying to go to the FA well or give RBs 2nd contracts.  The whole idea of not giving RBs 2nd contracts means that you've likely drafted them and have them on a rookie deal.

 

Look at SF, who runs an offense where everyone thinks that anyone can get production at RB - they have spent a 2nd and 3 3rds (and a 4th) on the RB position.

LAR - as soon as Gurley fell off, they immediately went RB in round 3 and then again in round 2. Also spent a 4th on Sony Michel trade.

 

Another thing to keep in context here is that the Bills did spend a high 2nd round pick (Zay Jones) and a 2018 3rd (Benjamin trade) on WR right before drafting Allen. After drafting Allen, the Bills have done the following at WR:

2019 - signed John Brown and Cole Beasely as starters; drafted Knox in the 3rd.

2020 - traded a 1st (and a 4th) for Diggs; drafted Davis with a 4th.

2021 - signed Emmanuel Sanders

 

It's not like they haven't spent capital there and they also had some entrenched starters at the position throughout. They did neglect it from a draft standpoint in 2021 and 2022, but again those years they had some entrenched players at the position. 

 

Was anyone upset with the WR depth chart in 2021? No.

 

It wasn't a great situation heading into 2022 but what WRs did you want them selecting in the first 3 rounds that year?

 

Is this team that much better if we have Skyy Moore or Christian Watson on it instead of selecting Elam? Marginally.

[Kaenon]

4 hours ago, Sweats said:

 

 

Unfortunately, as much as i like Diggs, we should have made a play for Justin Jefferson....Diggs is getting old and slow....JJ is just hitting his prime.

Funny that was the pick at the slot we traded to MIN for Diggs.

[Sweats]

3 minutes ago, Kaenon said:

Funny that was the pick at the slot we traded to MIN for Diggs.

 

 

 

That's right and who got the better of that deal?

[Paup 1995MVP]

18 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

A little misleading as technically we traded a first for Diggs.  

 

But the bigger alarm is three RBs.   I had to look to validate that.  I remember cook, but forgot Singletary and moss were in there as 3rd rounders.  Big difference if one of them was a productive WR, LB or DB last year.

 

But I cant fault Beane/McDermott here.  Drafting has been top notch.  Sure we wish we could hit MORE - but I'd venture to say our hit rate is in the top tier.

 

It's pretty incredible actually the late round "Hits".  Gabe Davis, Benford, Spector, Teller, Shakir, Hamlin, Hodgins, Dane, Teller, McCloud, Neal.... Really the only bad recent misses are Elam, Basham, and Moss.

 

You cant hit them all....but I think our hit rate is pretty damn good.

What alternate reality are you living in Jim Bob?  To say that Spector Teller Hamlin Hodgins McCloud and Neal have been hits for us is categorically false.  None have done anything for the Bills to help towards winning a championship.  (Maybe Spector still does.)  Drafting guys is one thing.  But keeping them on your team is also part of the process.

[BananaB]

5 years and 5 picks at RB and TE. 

[Mr. WEO]

I've read here over and over that McBeane are very good at evaluating the draft for WRs.   They simply choose not to display this skill...

 

 

...or something.

[Billzgobowlin]

21 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

The Bills' goose egg for WR stands out.

 

When you've got a good gun, wouldn't you want to buy ammunition?  

Does trading for Diggs sort of count?