The Jokeman Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: Disagree. What if BPA is a QB? What if it’s a CB three years in a row? It’s a flawed system. You identify areas of need and then take BPA based on that board. To me you evaluate the draft as a whole and get the best collection of talent. Some would call it value based drafting. You can draft for need but doesn't mean always taking the BPA as you need to look at the board as a whole picture not just each round as they come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: What is the issue with this team right now? What about last year in the playoffs? That’s right…offensive weapons. You can spin it all you want, but WR is the biggest need. It just is. You are confusing the needs of the team this season and the needs of the team next season. We are losing half our defensive starters to retirement, injury and FA is my prediction. That is going to be the biggest need. We've been fairly fortunate to have stable starters on the defense the past 3-4 years or so (remarkably so), but that is all coming to an end now. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Just now, DapperCam said: You are confusing the needs of the team this season and the needs of the team next season. We are losing half our defensive starters to retirement, injury and FA is my prediction. That is going to be the biggest need. We've been fairly fortunate to have stable starters on the defense the past 3-4 years or so (remarkably so), but that is all coming to an end now. Disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 7 minutes ago, whorlnut said: You seem a lot older than that. My point is that this is a new NFL. It’s a passing league. We have a franchise qb and you don’t wanna get him the best WR possible? You would rather take an edge? We tried that in 21 with two straight picks in 1 and 2, which pretty much inspired this entire thread. Not to mention we took one in 2 the year before. Other than the Diggs trade, the earliest asset Beane has used on a wr has been a 4. You think that has anything to do with why we are in this mess to begin with? What is the issue with this team right now? What about last year in the playoffs? That’s right…offensive weapons. You can spin it all you want, but WR is the biggest need. It just is. And as a passing league if you can't protect your franchise QB it doesn't matter how good your WRs are. See Cincy with an injured Burrow not in the playoffs. WR is not the biggest need if we lose Floyd and AJE in free agency. I can debate last year's playoffs loss was lack of a quality CB1 and missing Von Miller and Da'quan Jones on the DLineman. Edited January 3 by The Jokeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cincinnati Kid Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, DapperCam said: You are confusing the needs of the team this season and the needs of the team next season. We are losing half our defensive starters to retirement, injury and FA is my prediction. That is going to be the biggest need. We've been fairly fortunate to have stable starters on the defense the past 3-4 years or so (remarkably so), but that is all coming to an end now. Sherfield is one year deal, Davis is up, Harty is going to be cut… queue the Spider-Man Pointing Gif? The roster next year takes shape in time, but having limited guys under contract on DL is also true of WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Just now, The Jokeman said: And as a passing league if you can't protect your franchise QB it doesn't matter how good your WRs are. See Cincy with an injured Burrow not in the playoffs. WR is not the biggest need if we lose Floyd and AJE in free agency. I can debate last year's playoffs was lack of a quality CB1 and missing Von Miller and Da'quan Jones. Just about every media outlet and the vast majority of the fanbase disagrees with you. Agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said: Sherfield is one year deal, Davis is up, Harty is going to be cut… queue the Spider-Man Pointing Gif? The roster next year takes shape in time, but having limited guys under contract on DL is also true of WR. Who's more valuable to the team Davis or Floyd? If lose both which would you want to replace first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cincinnati Kid Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, The Jokeman said: Who's more valuable to the team Davis or Floyd? If lose both which would you want to replace first? The guy that scores the points with a guy better at scoring points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, The Jokeman said: Who's more valuable to the team Davis or Floyd? If lose both which would you want to replace first? What’s the biggest weakness right now? WR cause Davis is insanely inconsistent. We don’t have to lose Davis for me to want to replace him. His time is up. He’s easily replaceable. As for Floyd…we got him on a one year deal. You think we couldn’t find another vet to sign a similar deal? We don’t have to draft an edge to replace him. We could probably even get him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, The Cincinnati Kid said: The guy that scores the points with a guy better at scoring points. It's easier to beat a team if have to score 17 points instead of 20. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cincinnati Kid Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: It's easier to beat a team if have to score 17 points instead of 20. They can score 17, 20, 24, it really doesn’t matter if I’m scoring 35, 38, 41… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said: They can score 17, 20, 24, it really doesn’t matter if I’m scoring 35, 38, 41… And how many teams scored 35 PPG this season? Guess who has the best record in the league? Surprise the team with the best defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 11 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: It's easier to beat a team if have to score 17 points instead of 20. You clearly want the bills to become the new packers, who pissed Aaron Rodgers off for years by not investing in top WRs. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 10 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: It's easier to beat a team if have to score 17 points instead of 20. So at what point does the offense become a priority? The way the NFL is set up now teams will always have a bunch of guys on 1-2 year deals, that’s just how it works. Personally I would rather replace on the defensive line year after year with ring chasers and get younger talented guys in the offense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverOutNick Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 This is an amazing WR class…ODUNZE all day! Tre Harris from ole Miss is also a stud but not sure he’s coming out. Franklin from Oregon and Walker from UNC are guys after the first first round I like a lot too. Just such a deep and awesome draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchiseneedsme Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: I agree Whorl...Diggs is slowing down. Gabe is as good as gone. Knox is no longer part of this offense as a receiver. That leaves us Kincaid & Shakir. We must be bold and go after Odunze or Coleman in the 1st. Then I would start looking for another wr in the 3rd-4th round. I hate Coleman, jumpball/contested catch guy.. yuk Give me Troy Franklin, he's a better John Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philholbroo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I would like to trade up for one of the big WRs (Nabers specifically), so use the pick of the double dip to just trade up and get a great 1 at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, whorlnut said: Ok…if the sign wrs and ignore defensive line…I will be upset. That will leave that as a “need” in the draft. Enough with dumpster diving at WR and hoping something sticks. Time to start burning some top picks on that position. Ideally they would do both. We can't rely on a 1st round caliber WR to even make it to our pick given the importance of the position. Even if we get one, we can't rely on one picked in the 20s to have a major role next year. People expected Kincaid to have a major role this year and instead he has just been a solid role player. And we NEED a WR capable of having a major role next year. It's not optional. Unfortunately Beane has backed himself into a corner. Hopkins was the play because he was an immediate improvement that would have been affordable if we had made an effort. Now we have less cap flexibility and we're coming up on an offseason where guys like Pittman and Higgins are going to get massive contracts. Looking at the FA list I don't expect there to be a good middle class of WRs. There's the $15M+ WRs, and there's the Sherfield/Harty level "upside" projects. This offseason's version of Hopkins would probably be Mike Evans but I expect him to re-sign in TB. I don't know what the solution is. OBJ? Hollywood Brown? I just know I don't want to go into the draft with the same gaping hole at outside WR that we had entering last year's draft. If Beane really wanted to go nuts he could cut Hyde, Poyer, White, and Von and use the resulting cap space to make a real splash signing like Pittman. But that's not his M.O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, Mark Vader said: They could give a futures contract to Andy Isabella. @BADOLBILZ why is that so funny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: Ideally they would do both. We can't rely on a 1st round caliber WR to even make it to our pick given the importance of the position. Even if we get one, we can't rely on one picked in the 20s to have a major role next year. People expected Kincaid to have a major role this year and instead he has just been a solid role player. And we NEED a WR capable of having a major role next year. It's not optional. Unfortunately Beane has backed himself into a corner. Hopkins was the play because he was an immediate improvement that would have been affordable if we had made an effort. Now we have less cap flexibility and we're coming up on an offseason where guys like Pittman and Higgins are going to get massive contracts. Looking at the FA list I don't expect there to be a good middle class of WRs. There's the $15M+ WRs, and there's the Sherfield/Harty level "upside" projects. This offseason's version of Hopkins would probably be Mike Evans but I expect him to re-sign in TB. I don't know what the solution is. OBJ? Hollywood Brown? I just know I don't want to go into the draft with the same gaping hole at outside WR that we had entering last year's draft. If Beane really wanted to go nuts he could cut Hyde, Poyer, White, and Von and use the resulting cap space to make a real splash signing like Pittman. But that's not his M.O. True, that it's a lot to expect a Round 1 skill player to be the guy in Year 1. But we do have to keep in mind that Kincaid won't be a Rookie next season. He has had a solid Rookie season and I think the expectation from the team is that he'll take another step next season - as Cook, Bernard, and Shakir did. I agree, as you said, we will not be able to swing a Tee Higgins given our situation. But with the hopeful steps forward with Kincaid in Year 2 and Shakir in Year 3, along with Diggs, another solid roleplayer in Round 1 (and a mid round flyer), and a good deal on a solid WR left at the end of musical chairs or a more reliable projection player than we've gotten this season with similar players - and we should be in a better position. We also have 9 picks this year. So with a package of mid round picks and/or a pick next year, although we may be low in Round 1, we may be able to move up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 hours ago, whorlnut said: I’m really hoping Beane takes a WR in the first round this year and would then like to see another taken in round 2 if they are rated high on our board. We did this with Rousseau and Basham when we needed someone to get after Mahomes. Why can’t we do it again for our franchise qb? Go hard at the position and give yourself the best shot possible at finding another top receiver. These guys could end up being WR1 and WR2 after Diggs leaves. I love the idea of rookie contracts, with one having the fifth year option. This is a passing league and if we hit on one, that gives Allen Kincaid and the new guy for at least 4 years on rookie deals. If we hit on both, then all the better. If Beane is drafting these WRs I say absolutely not! He’s even on record saying he’s horrible at drafting at that position no thanks unless he’s gone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 hours ago, No_Matter_What said: Anyone who doesn't think that Beane will try to draft WR in R1 this year is not paying attention. And I also think he'll try to get another one in later rounds. Only question is how hard he will try. Depends on where we end up drafting and which players will he like. If it was up to me, I'd be ready to give up next year's no. 1 if there was a guy I wanted and I thought he was that much better than alternative options. And I am usually against any trade ups. We really need some relatively cheap top end WR talent. I bet Beane thinks the same. Maybe Beane double dips on his trade for a Wr strategy and goes after Devante Adams this offseason. Beane knows he stinks at drafting WRs . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 49 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: If Beane is drafting these WRs I say absolutely not! He’s even on record saying he’s horrible at drafting at that position no thanks unless he’s gone. He's on record saying he's horrible at drafting WR's? Really? When did he say this? I call BS. Considering he's never taken one before Round 4 - how can you even judge that? And honestly, the performances of guys like Gabe Davis (Round 4), Khalil Shakir (Round 5), Ray-Ray McCloud (Round 6 - albeit elsewhere) and Isaiah Hodgins (Round 6 - albeit elsewhere), have exceeded their Draft positions. Success past Round 3 at WR is very few and far between. We wait to see what will come of Justin Shorter (Round 5), another late round pick. The only ones you can say were a real miss was Marquez Stevenson (6th Round Pick) and Austin Proehl (7th Round Pick). Again, it's not expected a 6th or 7th Round Pick will amount to much. Edited January 3 by BillsFanForever19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: He's on record saying he's horrible at drafting WR's? Really? When did he say this? I call BS. Considering he's never taken one before Round 4 - how can you even judge that? And honestly, the performances of guys like Gabe Davis (Round 4), Khalil Shakir (Round 5), and Isiah Hodgins (Round 6 - albeit elsewhere), have exceeded their Draft positions. Success past Round 3 at WR is very few and far between. The only one you can say was a real miss was Marquez Stevenson and he was a 6th Round Pick also. It's not expected a 6th Round Pick will amount to much. He basically said it after the Diggs trade then he showed by the Diggs trade because that was a great yr for WRs and Jefferson was there in that spot as well as other WRs that were drafted afterwards. I don’t remember exactly the words Beane used when he traded for Diggs I just remember the jist of it was he wasn’t confident in his ability to draft at that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: He basically said it after the Diggs trade then he showed by the Diggs trade because that was a great yr for WRs and Jefferson was there in that spot as well as other WRs that were drafted afterwards. I don’t remember exactly the words Beane used when he traded for Diggs I just remember the jist of it was he wasn’t confident in his ability to draft at that position. He said he wasn't confident they'd be able to land the kind of difference maker they wanted there and were confident that Diggs was the better option. No one knew Justin Jefferson was going to become Justin Jefferson. If they did, he wouldn't have lasted as long as they did. Seriously putting words in his mouth there. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: He said he wasn't confident they'd be able to land the kind of difference maker they wanted there and were confident that Diggs was the better option. No one knew Justin Jefferson was going to become Justin Jefferson. If they did, he wouldn't have lasted as long as they did. Seriously putting words in his mouth there. Well I remember saying Jefferson was gonna be drafted in that aera and loving him as a prospect. Im pretty sure he went deeper then that from what he said but his actions proved he sucks at drafting at that position not to mention all the other young stud WRs in the NFL that he passed on in other rounds. Btw they did draft a couple busts at that position while in Carolina u remember Benjamin or Funchness both were trash! 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: Well I remember saying Jefferson was gonna be drafted in that aera and loving him as a prospect. Im pretty sure he went deeper then that from what he said but his actions proved he sucks at drafting at that position not to mention all the other young stud WRs in the NFL that he passed on in other rounds. Btw they did draft a couple busts at that position while in Carolina u remember Benjamin or Funchness both were trash! We had the ability and the money to get one of the top 5 WR's in the NFL in Diggs and we took the sure thing over the Draft Pick that year. It just so happened, Jefferson became one of those himself. But at the time, he was the 5th WR taken that year. So take a sure fire thing or take the 5th WR off the board? It's a no brainer. Only through hindsight can it be questioned. As for Funchess and Benjamin, he was just an Assistant. He didn't make those picks. And with Funchess, he wasn't even so much as the Assistant GM at that point. We cannot afford a serious difference maker at WR via FA or Trade. So you might want to get over this stretch of an idea that he can't Draft a WR and/or hope for the best. Davante Adams is an absolute pipe dream. Again, he has never picked a WR before Round 4 - so the data isn't there to say he can't do it. And ultimately, the Draft is a crap chute anyways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 46 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: If Beane is drafting these WRs I say absolutely not! He’s even on record saying he’s horrible at drafting at that position no thanks unless he’s gone. Gonna need a quote on that. That's like a plumber admitting that drains aren't his strong suit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 They did draft a pass catching te I the first round. Planning to draft the same position in rounds one and two seems very amateurish to me. They will have to replace Gabe and drafting a young talent on a rookie deal is a good way to do that. But there will be other needs like safety, DT and DE where lots of people come off the books 3 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: If Beane is drafting these WRs I say absolutely not! He’s even on record saying he’s horrible at drafting at that position no thanks unless he’s gone. List the WRs Beane has drafted? Have they performed ok considering the draft position? I would love to see this actual quote I don’t believe he said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 hours ago, whorlnut said: I’m really hoping Beane takes a WR in the first round this year and would then like to see another taken in round 2 if they are rated high on our board. We did this with Rousseau and Basham when we needed someone to get after Mahomes. Why can’t we do it again for our franchise qb? Go hard at the position and give yourself the best shot possible at finding another top receiver. These guys could end up being WR1 and WR2 after Diggs leaves. I love the idea of rookie contracts, with one having the fifth year option. This is a passing league and if we hit on one, that gives Allen Kincaid and the new guy for at least 4 years on rookie deals. If we hit on both, then all the better. Diggs, Shakir, Harty and Shorter are currently under contract for next season. That’s definitely not great. It’ll be Diggs’ age 31 season so it may be his last as a Bill. Shakir is a useful WR, but I don’t think he’s a starter, at least not yet. Harty should be cut and Shorter will be batting for a roster spot. That leaves a lot of work to be done. Free agency and/or trades have to yield something of value this off-season. I’d have no issue with finding and paying their next WR1 this way as the year 1 (and 2) cap hit(s) can be kept low. The biggest issue is actually finding such a player available. But we did it with Diggs and other teams have done it so it is possible. At minimum a serviceable vet who can start at WR2 while rookies are developed needs to be acquired. Yes, the Bills will need to draft a couple WRs and I have no issue with ant least one early depending on how the corps looks at that point. But it’s not Madden. Rookies rarely make a big impact in year 1. Some take a couple seasons and some never pan out. Drafting one in round 1 certainly improves the odds, but every team in the league knows what we need so we will have to move up for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 hours ago, That's No Moon said: WR 1, S 2, WR For the team this would be the most sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: He said he wasn't confident they'd be able to land the kind of difference maker they wanted there and were confident that Diggs was the better option. No one knew Justin Jefferson was going to become Justin Jefferson. If they did, he wouldn't have lasted as long as they did. Seriously putting words in his mouth there. Disagree with the Jefferson part. You could tell by watching LSU games that he was as talented, if not more so, then the guys who were drafted from that program before him: Landry, Beckham, Bowe just to name a few. On the other hand if, as a spectator, you feel Chase was going to be special then Justin is in that same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snappysnackcakes Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Roster spots. That’s why we won’t. An edge defender can play as a rookie, many receivers take a season to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 14 hours ago, whorlnut said: Other than using a first on Diggs, the highest pick that Beane has turned in a card at WR was fourth round. It’s comical how much they seemed to neglect getting Allen top WR talent. The Bills invested a #1 pick on Diggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoMAn Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 They still have young receivers developing in Shakir and Shorter. I’m all for using first pick on WR if it’s a stud who can complement Diggs, but we have other needs too. Use 2nd on DL that will need replenishing after the cap claims a couple linemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I won’t mind that at all. I’m in love with Rome O but that is a pipe dream. I also think we desperately need a stud pass rusher. but if there was ever a year to need a wr, this is the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 14 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: If they think here is talent there when they pick in he first and second then yeah cool … don’t have a problem with it as long as they don’t have a preconceived strategy and end up reaching … Basham was a bust obviously but it wasn’t a deliberate reach … they had him graded higher than the reality ..it happens and they have got plenty of others right … Yes, but.. The Draft is simply a crap shoot. Especially with WRs. Ya just never know and they typically take a few years to realize their potential. Could be a bust or could be a Jerry Butler/JD Hill. Imo, a very good WR to play with Josh for a few seasons is best left to a trade or FA signing -Not early Draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: He basically said it after the Diggs trade then he showed by the Diggs trade because that was a great yr for WRs and Jefferson was there in that spot as well as other WRs that were drafted afterwards. I don’t remember exactly the words Beane used when he traded for Diggs I just remember the jist of it was he wasn’t confident in his ability to draft at that position. Wth are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: No one knew Justin Jefferson was going to become Justin Jefferson. Not sure how you can say that. Jefferson was a great prospect and he’s still on a rookie contract. Meanwhile, Diggs has hit a wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, BBFL said: Disagree with the Jefferson part. You could tell by watching LSU games that he was as talented, if not more so, then the guys who were drafted from that program before him: Landry, Beckham, Bowe just to name a few. On the other hand if, as a spectator, you feel Chase was going to be special then Justin is in that same boat. And yet, somehow, the great Howie Roseman took Jaelon Reagor over Jefferson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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