Can we have a conversation about Diggs?

[Bermuda Triangle]

I'd want out if I was him.  He knows that this franchise is spinning its wheels, and I think he just wants to win.

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Let's not forget, we had Dorsey calling plays and was awful. Let's see what he does under Brady. But he has no separation issues. It's just typical people here. "Oh my God, he's 29 and had couple mediocre games under a bad offensive coordinator. He can't separate". It's an automatic assumption after a few bad games at that age of 29. He's fine. He has had a few drops. But no issues with separation 

Don’t get me wrong I still think Diggs is good to very good.

I just don’t think he’s been his elite self the last couple months when it comes to separating and catching the ball.

All good if you disagree 

 

 

[Best Williams Available]

I’ll defend him in saying it seems to me the last 2 weeks he’s being blanketed by MFers who are good but also known to grab/hold and get away with it. DBs that play that style do well against elite WRs. If you let them get away with it, it makes the DB elite, even.

[Mikie2times]

I have noticed it and the thought the same. I wonder if he’s just burned on that full investment dog mentality everybody raves about. Sort of like, why am I doing this to myself? I’ll go out, play hard, and let the chips fall. Who knows. He has not played well for a few weeks now.

[DCofNC]

4 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

That’s a small sampling of players, but he’s among the league leaders in every receiving category still. 

Where’s he been when the season is on the line?

[stinky finger]

17 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I did find it interesting how happy he seemed to be as the game ended.   He looked like we won the game with how he was talking to players on the field 

Saw the same. It wasn't long ago games like this really got to him. Not so much these days. 

[Scott7975]

He's definitely had his share of mistakes the last few weeks.  Everyone has mistakes but this is becoming a trend.

 

I don't think it's because he has checked out.  If that was the case you wouldn't be seeing him being a leader on the sideline.  He still does that.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Scott7975

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

At half time, I said, “it’s time to make some hard decisions, the first one needs to be letting Diggs go, he’s not the same guy, huge cap hit, no performance.”’  He’s not a difference make any more.  Trade him and get what you can.

These statements baffle me - “get what you can” NO YOU DON’T GET WHAT YOU CAN FOR A CLEAR WR1

if a team puts together an impressive offer then sure you entertain it, but you’re not trading him for just anything. I’m assuming you want to get rid of McDermott as well (which is fine) but you presumably want your new coach to start his time in Buffalo with no viable weapons at the WR position? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

He's checked out. 

 

Non Miller out there loafing. 

 

Been fun. Time to cut dead weight.

 

[stinky finger]

22 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Imo it's only really been the last 2 games. His stats are still at the top. Taking him out on 3rd downs is baffling though 

I wonder if he asked out.

[MasterStrategist]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I will probably get flamed for this thread, but here goes - can we have a real conversation about Diggs' drop off this year? He has not been his usual special self since the London game. He's dropped a bunch of passes recently and now has two INTs on the year that were ripped out of his hands. I miss the days when Diggs was putting CBs like Marshon Lattimore and Jalen Ramsey on skates. This year he is getting locked down pretty easily by true #1 CBs.

 

I mean just to be clear Diggs is far from our biggest problem on offense, but when the ancillary weapons are so below average you really need your #1 guy to be at the top of the elite tier and Diggs just hasn't been that guy this year. I worry that he is reaching that age where WRs start to hit a wall, and once it starts it can get bad fast.

 

Flame away.

You won't be flamed by me.

 

Funny how so many rip on McD though, including you, then post "facts" like these - that are player talent related.

 

At Wr: other than trading for Diggs, what weapons has Beane added?  And yes, Diggs isn't his 2020 elite self anymore-age/banged up/etc leads to that.  

 

I could mention other positions that Beane has missed on/neglected.

 

But specifically to Diggs... he's not lost a step, but no longer going to be elite/consistent weapon much longer.  Very good, yes, but he needs more than just Kincaid as a supporting weapon.  

 

I was ALL IN on the Zay Flowers train, not upset since we landed Dalton. But that's the type of skill set we need opposite Stefon.  

 

Beane should have been investing these 2nd-3rd rounders in WRs instead of RBs.  Like some educated posters have mentioned, but worth repeating, RBs are dime a dozen.  I like James, but one could argue that the Ty Johnson/Latavius Murray/Damien Harris (if healthy) type talents are easy to find and cheap (either late rounds or FA every year). 

 

Elite QB, WRs, and OL should be focus.   Then a 'luxury' to find a stud RB.  But can find speed/talent at RB in late rounds every draft, ie: Mitchell (Ravens), Pachecho (Chiefs), Warren (Steelers), etc.  Especially in an era of "rb by committee".

 

All to say, Beane needs to be investing more resources, and hitting, on WRs via draft/FA.

[Zag20]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

Where’s he been when the season is on the line?

Getting interfered with

[SoCal Deek]

I can’t imagine a scenario where doesn’t demand to be traded. 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Enough of this nitpicky, scapegoating BS when the issue is obviously at the top of the team.

 

Stef Diggs is not a problem. As a matter of fact, I'd say if we had 22 Stef Diggs we'd have 2 Lombardis by now. Dude is a baller and a consummate pro who always shows up to play.

 

Replace the coaching and let the talent win.

 

Oh I am definitely not blaming or scapegoating Diggs for anything that has gone wrong this season. I just haven't seen anybody talking about what I believe to be a real drop off in his level of play this year. I don't think his mindset or work ethic has changed in the slightest. But he's going to be 30 years old in 3 days... I worry that he may have crested the hill earlier this year and is now descending.

[Buffalo03]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

Don’t get me wrong I still think Diggs is good to very good.

I just don’t think he’s been his elite self the last couple months when it comes to separating and catching the ball.

All good if you disagree 

 

 

He has no issues with separation. You don't lose that from week 6 to week 11. I think there are other issues at play like mental issues. I promise you, there are no separation issues right now. You don't know what you're watching if you think that's case and when he goes somewhere else next year and proves it, you'll feel a certain way that isn't good lol

[Sandhill Mike]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Non Miller

 

 

Oh snap!    First time I've seen that one... kudos!

 

Sad, but true.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think it’s also fair to say we can’t expect Diggs to be lights out week after week, like Allen. He’s allowed to have an off game or two. He’s a high volume WR, I have no doubts he’s banged up. 

[Zag20]

1 minute ago, Zag20 said:

Getting interfered with

To be fair, there is probably an element of frustration on his part. Who hasn’t been 29 and had a boss who you know is incompetent and is wasting your contributions to the company. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Zag20

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, Ya Digg? said:

These statements baffle me - “get what you can” NO YOU DON’T GET WHAT YOU CAN FOR A CLEAR WR1

if a team puts together an impressive offer then sure you entertain it, but you’re not trading him for just anything. I’m assuming you want to get rid of McDermott as well (which is fine) but you presumably want your new coach to start his time in Buffalo with no viable weapons at the WR position? 

Yeah, I want viable weapons and Diggs looks like he’s either 1) not trying anymore 2) washed after the first half of the season.  Either way, I’ll let go before I’m burned rather than hope a 30 yr old WR is going to turn over a new leaf.

[BillMafia716ix]

Diggs hasn’t had that swagger on the field that he usually does and now he dropping balls that he normally catches. Could it be that his skills are diminishing and that’s why he believe our window is closed? Possibly. He’s still very good though but we better be looking at future replacements in this coming draft for sure. 

[Dan in Owego]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

You won't be flamed by me.

 

Funny how so many rip on McD though, including you, then post "facts" like these - that are player talent related.

 

At Wr: other than trading for Diggs, what weapons has Beane added?  And yes, Diggs isn't his 2020 elite self anymore-age/banged up/etc leads to that.  

 

I could mention other positions that Beane has missed on/neglected.

 

But specifically to Diggs... he's not lost a step, but no longer going to be elite/consistent weapon much longer.  Very good, yes, but he needs more than just Kincaid as a supporting weapon.  

 

I was ALL IN on the Zay Flowers train, not upset since we landed Dalton. But that's the type of skill set we need opposite Stefon.  

 

Beane should have been investing these 2nd-3rd rounders in WRs instead of RBs.  Like some educated posters have mentioned, but worth repeating, RBs are dime a dozen.  I like James, but one could argue that the Ty Johnson/Latavius Murray/Damien Harris (if healthy) type talents are easy to find and cheap (either late rounds or FA every year). 

 

Elite QB, WRs, and OL should be focus.   Then a 'luxury' to find a stud RB.  But can find speed/talent at RB in late rounds every draft, ie: Mitchell (Ravens), Pachecho (Chiefs), Warren (Steelers), etc.  Especially in an era of "rb by committee".

 

All to say, Beane needs to be investing more resources, and hitting, on WRs via draft/FA.

If our first three picks are receivers you won't here a peep from me

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

He has no issues with separation. You don't lose that from week 6 to week 11. I think there are other issues at play like mental issues. I promise you, there are no separation issues right now. You don't know what you're watching if you think that's case and when he goes somewhere else next year and proves it, you'll feel a certain way that isn't good lol

Ok- Like I said, we will agree to disagree. I have my opinion, you have yours

[Buffalo03]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Don’t get me wrong I still think Diggs is good to very good.

I just don’t think he’s been his elite self the last couple months when it comes to separating and catching the ball.

All good if you disagree 

 

 

We had a predictable offense which is a huge part of the problem and you think Diggs has separation issues?

[Big Blitz]

Next year is the last year of the Diggs-Von-Poyer-Hyde-Morse-Floyd-Taron window.  
 

New window is Allen-Kincaid and I have no idea. 
 

But this group of vets needs a new HC and another elite WR - and probably an upgrade at slot WR. 

[DCofNC]

2 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

Getting interfered with

Riiight, that’s why he’s got more drops in the last two weeks than he had last year, makes sense:

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

We had a predictable offense which is a huge part of the problem and you think Diggs has separation issues?

Diggs had his worst performance under Brady last week.

 

So I’m not sure what you’re trying to correlate here

[Buffalo03]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

Ok- Like I said, we will agree to disagree. I have my opinion, you have yours

Your opinion is wrong. He has no separation issues. His lack of production has come from having a crappy offense for weeks

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Your opinion is wrong. He has no separation issues. His lack of production has come from having a crappy offense for weeks

You do know that his worst performance came last week with Joe Brady, right?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Oh I am definitely not blaming or scapegoating Diggs for anything that has gone wrong this season. I just haven't seen anybody talking about what I believe to be a real drop off in his level of play this year. I don't think his mindset or work ethic has changed in the slightest. But he's going to be 30 years old in 3 days... I worry that he may have crested the hill earlier this year and is now descending.

 

Fair enough, wasnt aimed at you specifically. Bills fans have been lined up to hate on Diggs every since he got here. That said...

 

I think a lot of it has to do with teams focusing on taking him away. kinda obvious for anyone about to play the Bills to say "Take away Diggs, what else do they have?", and they arent wrong. Although Kincaid/Shakir/Davis/Cook/Murray could get it done with a well called Offense, like we saw tonight.

 

Once the O finds their identity again, which is Allen spreading the ball around to multiple receivers and also running it himself, that will open up Diggs' game again. Looks like Brady has us on the right track there. We'll see.

 

I think we can salvage Diggs in Buffalo by canning McD and resetting with an Offensive coach.

 

 

[Buffalo03]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

Diggs had his worst performance under Brady last week.

 

So I’m not sure what you’re trying to correlate here

He had TWO bad weeks all season. ONE was with Dorsey and then last week. Today, he was much better. You're going off the very first game under the new OC? There was a difference today and it should continue unless he has mentally checked out which is entirely possible

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Diggs had his worst performance under Brady last week.

 

So I’m not sure what you’re trying to correlate here

 

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

You do know that his worst performance came last week with Joe Brady, right?

 

The thread is about his drop off over the entire season, not just one week/last week.

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

You do know that his worst performance came last week with Joe Brady, right?

Brady's first game. What did he do the week before with the last week under Dorsey? He had 6 catches today for 74 and a TD. So what are you talking about?

[stevestojan]

He seems disinterest and completely unbothered after the game. I think he’s just biding his time for this season to be over and demand a trade, despite his contract. 

[MikePJ76]

after last years events and his brother comments two weeks ago.  I am kind of looking forward to a change at WR.  

 

Go draft a young guy and bring in a veteran.  Those guys will not be in a situation to speak down to the qb because of their experience.  Its different when the qb is the vet and the wr is the young guy.  Older wr who make mistakes or start to slow down are always blaming everyone else.  Young guys cant do that.

 

We are two years away from it but it will be good for the qb.  

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Brady's first game. What did he do the week before with the last week under Dorsey? He had 6 catches today for 74 and a TD. So what are you talking about?

So now you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Our O was crap with Dorsey as you said and Diggs was the “victim of that”

But our offence got way better under Brady last week (as you stated), but Diggs didn’t perform well 

So what exactly are you trying to say and correlate here?

[Zag20]

3 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Riiight, that’s why he’s got more drops in the last two weeks than he had last year, makes sense:

Likely no one else on the team hauls in that sliding touchdown catch. He’s a top tier wide receiver and that cannot be argued. What’s your point? He’s overpaid? Not really, there are total hacks making 75 percent of what he makes. Maybe if the Bills go full rebuild, they trade him.

[Eastport bills]

25 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I will probably get flamed for this thread, but here goes - can we have a real conversation about Diggs' drop off this year? He has not been his usual special self since the London game. He's dropped a bunch of passes recently and now has two INTs on the year that were ripped out of his hands. I miss the days when Diggs was putting CBs like Marshon Lattimore and Jalen Ramsey on skates. This year he is getting locked down pretty easily by true #1 CBs.

 

I mean just to be clear Diggs is far from our biggest problem on offense, but when the ancillary weapons are so below average you really need your #1 guy to be at the top of the elite tier and Diggs just hasn't been that guy this year. I worry that he is reaching that age where WRs start to hit a wall, and once it starts it can get bad fast.

 

Flame away.

I think he has a role on the team and besides being a #1 receiver he commands double coverage. Say what you want, he caught a TD in a tight window and Josh had wide open receivers all night. Cook dropped a TD , Davis forgot to watch the flight of the ball to end the game and Bass choked away 6 points. Diggs was fine. The emergence of Shakir, Kincaid and Cook in the passing game has to be at least partially due to teams trying to take Diggs away.

[Buffalo03]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

So now you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Our O was crap with Dorsey as you said and Diggs was the “victim of that”

But our offence got way better under Brady last week (as you stated), but Diggs didn’t perform well 

So what exactly are you trying to say and correlate here?

It was Brady's first game last week. He tried different things. He had short week and a condensed game plan. Today was a lot different and you could see it. Today was better than any game Dorsey called all season and outside of one drop today, Diggs looked normal. There are no separation issues with Diggs

[Nelius]

I don't know, that ridiculous touchdown catch says otherwise.

 

And for as many people who point out that he's turning 30 as negative, he's also about to hit 10k yards at 30 as well, which is historically elite. 

 

I think he's checked out more than hit the peak. He also plays the type of game that should allow him to last longer than other receivers. He'll probably put up a few more good seasons elsewhere on his way to 15k.

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

He seems disinterest and completely unbothered after the game. I think he’s just biding his time for this season to be over and demand a trade, despite his contract. 

 

He isn't getting traded.  There is too much dead cap in a cap strapped team to trade him.  He can demand it all he wants.  Doesn't mean it will happen.