Outlook on McDermott if we turn it around

[Mikie2times]

The better we perform in the short term, the more likely we will maintain the status quo in the long term. I don't see any way that isn't the case. It was already a long shot that we would part ways with McDermott after this year. It was going to take an implosion on the trajectory of what we had seen prior to Dorsey being canned. If they turn it around and threaten the playoffs it's not going to happen. 

 

Do some of you feel strongly enough about McDermott to actual want this thing to implode for the greater good? Do some of you feel if we can somehow get back on track to make the playoffs that it would alter your view on him as the coach next year? Curious what the outlook is on this. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Mikie2times

[GoBills808]

Not me

 

No matter how detrimental I believe McDermott is to our chances at a SB...I still want wins every Sunday 

[nedboy7]

Rooting for them to crush it in every game regardless. Let’s see McD’s best possible results. 

[Wizard]

I guess we would need a definition of what "turning it around" means.

 

For me, the Bills must make the playoffs and win at least one playoff game for me to  consider a "turnaround."

 

This likely means Buffalo has to go 4-2 here on out and finish out 10-7 in the regular season.

 

We already had 3 silly losses from poor coaching, poor management, and poor play (first Jets game, Patriots, and Broncos). 

 

Listed below are my 7  "musts" for a a mini rebuild/retooling and to keep Buffalo competitive. If they can do these things, I would go another year with McDermott and Beane.

 

If not, new leadership is needed.

 

7 Things McDermott Must Do

1. Make Playoffs

 

2. Win at least 1 playoff game

 

3. Joe Brady has offense scoring 24-35 points every game, or we get a top 5 available OC with proven success for next season by February 2024.

 

4. McDermott has a time management/situational guy helping him in tight games/situations. Seriously!

 

5. Bills cut bait on overpriced veterans. There is a plan that restructures Allen and Diggs as our cap currently is not friendly for 2024.

 

6. FA focus is in depth. Draft focuses on a promising #2 WR prospect, a RT, and and secondary help.  We return/retain guys like Floyd and Epenesa or key pass rushers we can afford.

 

7. A DC is in place that is not from the Panthers. The person has had success as a DC and is hired by February 2024. This defense is complementary of McDermott's philosophy.  I'd like to see better tackling, less boneheaded penalties (12 on the field) and creating turnovers more frequently, but, we do have a good defense. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Wizard

[AuntieEm]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Rooting for them to crush it in every game regardless. Let’s see McD’s best possible results. 

 

Not even the most anti McDermott fan will call for his head if the Bills turn around their past shortcoming seasons and win the SB.  They still may not like him as the coach but the results would warrant not messing with what works.  And winning  the SB would work for all Bills fans I'm sure.

[Warcodered]

The Offense hasn't been stable and I don't think that's helped McDermott while he's been doing double duty as HC and DC. If Brady and the Offense can get thing going that'd be great. It'll be easier to answer these questions as we see how things go.

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Not even the most anti McDermott fan will call for his head if the Bills turn around their past shortcoming seasons and win the SB.  They still may not like him as the coach but the results would warrant not messing with what works.  And winning  the SB would work for all Bills fans I'm sure.

If the Bills win the Super Bowl I would be good if you feel like coaching

[LABILLBACKER]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Not me

 

No matter how detrimental I believe McDermott is to our chances at a SB...I still want wins every Sunday 

I will never want the Bills to lose under any circumstances,  but it doesn't make me change my mind as to McDermott's long term detriment to this team.  Let's see how this plays out but if no playoffs, I want him gone.

[cgg716]

I think a turnaround wastes another year on a bad game day coach with an outdated philosophy that's led to poor roster construction. You say implosion, I say improvement. I almost dread a playoff berth

[Bruffalo]

You go 7-0 or 6-1 in the stretch here and I’ll hear you out.

 

 

[AuntieEm]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

If the Bills win the Super Bowl I would be good if you feel like coaching

Well of course winning makes everything fun.  This team has the talent to win games but it has to be everybody doing their parts.  If they can keep playing complementary football it is very hard to beat the Bills.  In all of the losses this year I really feel the Bills beat themselves more than other team being superior.

 

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

You go 7-0 or 6-1 in the stretch here and I’ll hear you out.

 

If this happens then I think McD needs to answer some tough questions about why he didn’t make a change sooner.

 

That type of run against the gauntlet of teams upcoming would be a clear and direct indictment on Dorsey.

[JerseyBills]

I'm in the minority clearly but I'm a huge McD fan. I'm in my 30s, was too young to enjoy Levy, barely able to enjoy Wade, basically grew up in the drought and McD ends that in year 1, I just don't see an improvement out there, his biggest mistake besides 13 seconds, which can be put on many players/coaches, was letting a 25 year old QB hand pick his oc. 

 

I'm glad he's here

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

If this happens then I think McD needs to answer some tough questions about why he didn’t make a change sooner.

 

That type of run against the gauntlet of teams upcoming would be a clear and direct indictment on Dorsey.

Agreed. There was a lot of rumbling in the fanbase that Dorsey should have been shown the door in the off-season, and rumors that it was part of what Diggs was so frustrated with before training camp. 
 

I think it’d be better to move on from McDermott, if only because I don’t see him radically shifting philosophy to make Allen and the offense the focus, and his game day blunders are pretty damning. 

[LABILLBACKER]

15 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Agreed. There was a lot of rumbling in the fanbase that Dorsey should have been shown the door in the off-season, and rumors that it was part of what Diggs was so frustrated with before training camp. 
 

I think it’d be better to move on from McDermott, if only because I don’t see him radically shifting philosophy to make Allen and the offense the focus, and his game day blunders are pretty damning. 

Yup

McDermott will continue to make dumb decisions late in games. Continue poor time management.  Continue to emphasize D over O.  A Leopard doesn't change it's spots.  It's who he is and 7 years is plenty big enough of a sample size to validate his flaws.

[Freddie's Dead]

We'll have to go 2-1 against the Chefs, Iggles, Fish, which makes Dallas a must win.  Cynthia Frelund's model only had the Bills at 40% to make the playoffs with a win today, and she's projecting that the Bills won't be there.  If we miss the playoffs, McDummy must go.  If we make it and go out round 1, I still want him gone.  I would only bring him back if we have a good showing in the AFCCG (even in a loss, unless he does something stupid again) and if we make the Super Bowl, win or lose.  

Edited November 20, 2023 by Freddie's Dead

[cage]

3 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Not even the most anti McDermott fan will call for his head if the Bills turn around their past shortcoming seasons and win the SB.  They still may not like him as the coach but the results would warrant not messing with what works.  And winning  the SB would work for all Bills fans I'm sure.

 

Clearly many of us will happily eat crow if they win the SB.  I am one of those who would like to see us move beyond McD (not Beane).  The primary reason is that I don't think he has the game day "magic" that SB winning coaches seem to have.  What that specifically is has been debated on this board since 13 seconds.  If he wins SB, then he'll have proven us wrong and I'll be happy about that!

[Bill Grundy]

Wanting him to leave because results are poor makes sense, even if it's not great support. 

 

Wanting him to leave even if results are good is mental institution stuff. 

 

[PBF81]

We're getting ahead of ourselves.

 

This team is known for its sporadic big games at key times.  The Jetss are a hapless team that has averaged 16 PPG.  Zach Wilson is awful.  Far from Hurts, Mahomes, Prescott, Herbert, or Tua.  

 

Home crowd helped, but those are far from the conditions that will exist forthcoming with four of six on the road.  

 

Let's see how the "new and improved" Bills handles the Eagles, a better barometer.  

 

McD's issues didn't simply spring up this season, they're patterned.  

 

Playoffs are expected at this point, with something greater than a D or WC round loss too an inferior team or due too coaching blunders.  Nothing should have changed in that regard.  

 

Let's see how it shakes out.  

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by PBF81

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Not me

 

No matter how detrimental I believe McDermott is to our chances at a SB...I still want wins every Sunday 

I’m pretty much the exact opposite of this. I believe that lots and lots of people could lead this roster to wins. I said before the year, “Super Bowl or I want someone else.” I’m not going to ride the wave of “good week he should stay” vs. “bad week he should go.” As McDermott likes to say, “the standard is the standard.”

[ToGoGo]

13 minutes ago, Bill Grundy said:

Wanting him to leave because results are poor makes sense, even if it's not great support. 

 

Wanting him to leave even if results are good is mental institution stuff. 

 

Everyone went ballistic on him the last few weeks. Now that it’s obvious it was actually Dorsey all along many fans will have cognitive dissonance. 
 

It’s tough mentally to be THAT wrong about something. Let the fans work through it. 
 

But some will never let it go.  

[Niagara Dude]

5 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

The better we perform in the short term, the more likely we will maintain the status quo in the long term. I don't see any way that isn't the case. It was already a long shot that we would part ways with McDermott after this year. It was going to take an implosion on the trajectory of what we had seen prior to Dorsey being canned. If they turn it around and threaten the playoffs it's not going to happen. 

 

Do some of you feel strongly enough about McDermott to actual want this thing to implode for the greater good? Do some of you feel if we can somehow get back on track to make the playoffs that it would alter your view on him as the coach next year? Curious what the outlook is on this. 

I think if they make the playoff he stays for another season,  but if this team misses the playoffs then he needs to go.  You cannot lose to bad teams and that is why we're at risk of missing the playoffs.  His team was not prepared to play against Jet/Pats and Broncos and 12 men on the field was a massive reminder of 13 secs and poor situational football. Even a challenge call in the Cincy game ,  that came on a first down play and the net reward if he won on an iffy call would have been only 9 yards was stupid because you needed to save your timeouts. I think McDermott is a good defensive coach but limited as a HC

 

Despite that if can get the boys to win against one out of the next 2 games or even both then I think they make the playoffs and you make the argument that the team played to their level of competition.  I personally think they will need 4-5 wins out of their next 6 games to get in because there are so many teams bunched up and losing that Denver game could be the difference.

47 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Everyone went ballistic on him the last few weeks. Now that it’s obvious it was actually Dorsey all along many fans will have cognitive dissonance. 
 

It’s tough mentally to be THAT wrong about something. Let the fans work through it. 
 

But some will never let it go.  

I  don't think it was all on Dorsey,  guys just made plays in the game that they were not making before. What does Dorsey have with our defence getting turnovers or special teams getting turnover on opening kickoff.  Our defence made Zack Wilson look like Zack Wilson and not Tom Brady like he has looked against us in games we lost against Jets.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Niagara Dude

[Gunsgoodtime]

I stand by my statement from before.  If McDermott makes the playoffs, he stays, If he misses the playoffs with a healthy Josh Allen he should be gone.  The Bills are still most likely to miss the playoffs, even after the beating on a losing Jets team

[Niagara Dude]

5 hours ago, Wizard said:

I guess we would need a definition of what "turning it around" means.

 

For me, the Bills must make the playoffs and win at least one playoff game for me to  consider a "turnaround."

 

This likely means Buffalo has to go 4-2 here on out and finish out 10-7 in the regular season.

 

We already had 3 silly losses from poor coaching, poor management, and poor play (first Jets game, Patriots, and Broncos). 

 

Listed below are my 7  "musts" for a a mini rebuild/retooling and to keep Buffalo competitive. If they can do these things, I would go another year with McDermott and Beane.

 

If not, new leadership is needed.

 

7 Things McDermott Must Do

1. Make Playoffs

 

2. Win at least 1 playoff game

 

3. Joe Brady has offense scoring 24-35 points every game, or we get a top 5 available OC with proven success for next season by February 2024.

 

4. McDermott has a time management/situational guy helping him in tight games/situations. Seriously!

 

5. Bills cut bait on overpriced veterans. There is a plan that restructures Allen and Diggs as our cap currently is not friendly for 2024.

 

6. FA focus is in depth. Draft focuses on a promising #2 WR prospect, a RT, ahd and secondary help.  We return/retain guys like Floyd and Epenesa or key pass rushers we can afford.

 

7. A DC is in place that is not from the Panthers. The person has  had success as a DC and is hired by February 2024. This defense is complementary of McDermott's philosophy with a focus on tackling and creating turnovers more frequently.

I think making the playoffs is a must, no excuses and they knew their schedule was tough to end the season so the importance of winning games against bad teams should have been highlighted .  I don't buy the injuries because they look bad to start the year against the Jets and had everyone available but were not ready to play in that game.

[ToGoGo]

11 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I think if they make the playoff he stays for another season,  but if this team misses the playoffs then he needs to go.  You cannot lose to bad teams and that is why we're at risk of missing the playoffs.  His team was not prepared to play against Jet/Pats and Broncos and 12 men on the field was a massive reminder of 13 secs and poor situational football. Even a challenge call in the Cincy game ,  that came on a first down play and the net reward if he won on an iffy call would have been only 9 yards was stupid because you needed to save your timeouts. I think McDermott is a good defensive coach but limited as a HC

 

Despite that if can get the boys to win against one out of the next 2 games or even both then I think they make the playoffs and you make the argument that the team played to their level of competition.  I personally think they will need 4-5 wins out of their next 6 games to get in because there are so many teams bunched up and losing that Denver game could be the difference.

I  don't think it was all on Dorsey,  guys just made plays in the game that they were not making before. What does Dorsey have with our defence getting turnovers or special teams getting turnover on opening kickoff.  Our defence made Zack Wilson look like Zack Wilson and not Tom Brady like he has looked against us in games we lost against Jets.

it’s all synergistic. 
 

Dorsey will go down as the worst coach in Buffalo history. Up there with Krueger in the Sabres. 

[Niagara Dude]

1 minute ago, ToGoGo said:

it’s all synergistic. 
 

Dorsey will go down as the worst coach in Buffalo history. Up there with Krueger in the Sabres. 

I don't he was good but I also don't think he was the worse either.  Everyone looking for someone to blame without blaming McDermott who did nit have his team ready to play against bad teams. I think part of the reason our offence has not been great because Beanne has failed at adding WR'S and Davis is not a true #2 WR.  Yes Dorsey was not great but you also need weapons on the field

[ToGoGo]

2 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I don't he was good but I also don't think he was the worse either.  Everyone looking for someone to blame without blaming McDermott who did nit have his team ready to play against bad teams. I think part of the reason our offence has not been great because Beanne has failed at adding WR'S and Davis is not a true #2 WR.  Yes Dorsey was not great but you also need weapons on the field

I’m won’t argue with you. Watch the offense the rest of the year. It will do the arguing for me. 

[BillsFan692]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I'm in the minority clearly but I'm a huge McD fan. I'm in my 30s, was too young to enjoy Levy, barely able to enjoy Wade, basically grew up in the drought and McD ends that in year 1, I just don't see an improvement out there, his biggest mistake besides 13 seconds, which can be put on many players/coaches, was letting a 25 year old QB hand pick his oc. 

 

I'm glad he's here

Can we stop the JA "hand picked" dorsey narrative please? Ken Dorsey is from Carolina panthers staff and has known McD longer than he has known JA17.

 

More like McD picked dorsey and got JA17 to sign off on it. JA happy to sign off on it because of familiarity, same scheme etc.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I'm in the minority clearly but I'm a huge McD fan. I'm in my 30s, was too young to enjoy Levy, barely able to enjoy Wade, basically grew up in the drought and McD ends that in year 1, I just don't see an improvement out there, his biggest mistake besides 13 seconds, which can be put on many players/coaches, was letting a 25 year old QB hand pick his oc. 

 

I'm glad he's here

Help me understand the bolded. What does that mean? How would you know if “____” is an improvement? A few years ago Dan Campbell wouldn’t have seemed like an upgrade. He would have been. Do we know if Bobby Slowik or Ben Johnson would be improvements? Anyone COULD be an improvement OR a step back. 
 

That just doesn’t make sense to me. You ABSOLUTELY shouldn’t make a decision on McDermott (or any coach) based on what you perceive to be as “clear upgrades.” Any decision should be made  based on whether or not you believe Sean McDermott is the guy to win Super Bowl(s) with this team. That’s the only criteria.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Last night was classic McDermott.  Pad the stats against teams with garbage QBs.  We've seen this before. It's fool's gold. 

Now he just has three more injuries to add to the list of excuses. 

He needs to go for this team to win it all.

[Niagara Dude]

29 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Can we stop the JA "hand picked" dorsey narrative please? Ken Dorsey is from Carolina panthers staff and has known McD longer than he has known JA17.

 

More like McD picked dorsey and got JA17 to sign off on it. JA happy to sign off on it because of familiarity, same scheme etc.

If the Bills miss the playoffs then McDermott needs to go,  13 secs,  12 men on the field and just losing so many close games. 

[zow2]

If McD can guide this team to winning some sure to be, close games down the stretch then he’s fine. The Bills have proven they have the best knockout punch in the league against the so-so teams.  But when things come down to the wire he’s not as successful as they should be.

Edited November 20, 2023 by zow2

[cgg716]

1 hour ago, ToGoGo said:

Everyone went ballistic on him the last few weeks. Now that it’s obvious it was actually Dorsey all along many fans will have cognitive dissonance. 
 

It’s tough mentally to be THAT wrong about something. Let the fans work through it. 
 

But some will never let it go.  

One game against a hapless team doesn't make that obvious

[ToGoGo]

5 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

One game against a hapless team doesn't make that obvious

Keep clinging. 

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

The better we perform in the short term, the more likely we will maintain the status quo in the long term. I don't see any way that isn't the case. It was already a long shot that we would part ways with McDermott after this year. It was going to take an implosion on the trajectory of what we had seen prior to Dorsey being canned. If they turn it around and threaten the playoffs it's not going to happen. 

 

Do some of you feel strongly enough about McDermott to actual want this thing to implode for the greater good? Do some of you feel if we can somehow get back on track to make the playoffs that it would alter your view on him as the coach next year? Curious what the outlook is on this. 

Absolutely not.

 

IMO Brady and McD are auditioning for their jobs. If McD can cobble together a solid season from this debacle of a year, to me that puts him closer to the Tomlin’s and Harbaugh’s of the world. 
 

Some long time coaches get tuned out by their players. Others find a way. A playoff win this season would be quite a turnaround and enough for me to give McD another year.

[Since1981]

1 game with Big Boy teams up shortly. 

Does McD meddle and f-up the offense like he’s done previously? We will see. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

5 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Keep clinging. 

Says the guy clinging on to 1 win as 100% evidence that the offense will be on fire all season 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[BuffaloBillyG]

Championship Caliber. That's the standard that McDermott has preached for years. Not "Divisional Winners Caliber". Not "Playoff Caliber". McDermott set the standard. He's failed to meet his own benchmark.

 

If anything, the way the offense looked last night gives me MORE reason to not like the way McDermott runs the team. Too many "promote from with ins" and not enough going outside the organization to get fresh perspective.  The only reason Dorsey was on the staff in the first place was because McDermott had ties to him and Mike Shula already. Knowing someone and them being the best suited for the job are 2 different things. 

 

Brady came in from outside the circle. Yes from Carolina, but no ties to McDermott. Fresh set of eyes and fresh perspective. Looked to be a good answer last night. Even the most successful coach McDermott has hired to date (Daboll) came from outside McDermott's circle of trust. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Championship Caliber. That's the standard that McDermott has preached for years. Not "Divisional Winners Caliber". Not "Playoff Caliber". McDermott set the standard. He's failed to meet his own benchmark.

 

If anything, the way the offense looked last night gives me MORE reason to not like the way McDermott runs the team. Too many "promote from with ins" and not enough going outside the organization to get fresh perspective.  The only reason Dorsey was on the staff in the first place was because McDermott had ties to him and Mike Shula already. Knowing someone and them being the best suited for the job are 2 different things. 

 

Brady came in from outside the circle. Yes from Carolina, but no ties to McDermott. Fresh set of eyes and fresh perspective. Looked to be a good answer last night. Even the most successful coach McDermott has hired to date (Daboll) came from outside McDermott's circle of trust. 

Who else was promoted from within?

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Who else was promoted from within?

Smiley was as well on Special Teams. As well as several positions coaches.