Jets @ Bills Postgame thread

[Seventeen]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He would suck but he engineered Gw drives against us in 2 of the last 3 games.  Yesterday was his worst game I can remember by far.  No shock that it was behind an OL of depth players.  Dude never had a chance all day

 

True - he has occasional flashes of brilliance but not enough to warrant continuing as a starter. Will be interesting to see what the Jets do with him if Rodgers

plays next year. 

[Dillenger4]

2 hours ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

Ty Johnson might have some juice

Bingo! This dude has some beef on him too. Nice to see Brady actually using our weapons! This was a masterpiece and Brady has paint all over his face baby!

[Logic]

Per Joe Marino on Twitter:

32 points is the most any team has scored against the Jets in the last two years.

Not a bad first outing for Mr Brady...

[Nephilim17]

Sorry, if it's been said but I just read in a Sal article that Davis wasn't targeted once yesterday.

Good. We performed extremely well without him against a good D and other players are emerging. I hope this trend continues.

[billieve420]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

The more interesting question is do you cut Johnson to add Fournette? Because that's probably what you would have to do.

 

Fournette is just an insurance policy in case of injury at this point. Team will be able to evaluate him in the meantime and determine if he can help the team in case he needs to play.

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Per Joe Marino on Twitter:

32 points is the most any team has scored against the Jets in the last two years.

Not a bad first outing for Mr Brady...

Bills O vs Jets D was the storyline of this game. I don't want to diminish the game of the Bill's D. It did what it should have done though, to a large degree. The Bills O taking the Jets D to the woodshed is the bees knees.

[bouds]

The Bills D is why we spanked them.  Average starting field position for the O was the 38 yard line.  Enough said.

 

Yeah, the O scored, but the short field positions are why they had such an easy time of it.  They didnt have to go on 78 yard drives repeatedly, and the 80 yard explosive TD to shakir was the cherry on top.

Edited November 20, 2023 by bouds

[Cheektowaga Chad]

51 minutes ago, NewEra said:

My take:  Lenny is a PS player and will be all season unless someone gets hurt

They will eventually elevate him the max times before having to sign him to the active roster to get some reps with the offense but the signing was always about the playoffs where roster limits expand not regular season

 

See how they handled john brown and Cole Beasley last season 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

we want the chiefs to have success tonight so they can possibly expose a weakness in Philly that we can use to help us win next week.  
 

The only things that matters is the Bills winning games and the teams competing for the AFCE and WC to lose games.  KC winning or losing games is irrelevant to our playoff push

 

We aren’t competing with the chiefs for playoff position. They will win their division and will have a better record than us regardless of this game imo.  The only thing that matters to us is winning every game.  If KC can show us some concepts that will help us beat Philly, that’s more useful than KC getting beaten and showing us nothing on how to beat them.  
 

 

We still need a victory over the Chiefs more than against the Eagles. And, to be honest, I ‘d rather play the Eagles off a win than a loss.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Beast

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

23 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Sorry, if it's been said but I just read in a Sal article that Davis wasn't targeted once yesterday.

Good. We performed extremely well without him against a good D and other players are emerging. I hope this trend continues.

He’s only survived this long because he’s a pretty good run blocker I think. 

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

They will eventually elevate him the max times before having to sign him to the active roster to get some reps with the offense but the signing was always about the playoffs where roster limits expand not regular season

 

See how they handled john brown and Cole Beasley last season 

They will eventually elevate him if a RB gets hurt. I highly doubt they roster 4 RBs or cut Ty Johnson.  

[Mark Vader]

10 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

I heard on WGR, from Sal maybe, that Harris was contemplating retiring after that neck injury. 

Thank you, I was unaware of this.

[WideNine]

11 hours ago, stevewin said:

Crazy how much shorter the post game thread is without all the posts about how much the Bills suck 

 

Winning cures a lot of things.

 

There is good and bad execution in every game, but the bad things get magnified in losses.

 

The team looked better prepared on Offense and the sloppiness, mistakes, and lack of production from that unit game after game was getting old for all of us. Justified or not, that is the reason Dorsey was shown the exit.

 

I don't hate on Dorsey like some, as Allen credits him for a lot of the success he has had in past seasons.

 

I do think that the jump from QB room to OC is a big one and for this franchise with a defense-minded HC an OC has to manage a lot more than the Xs and Os.

 

Sometimes it takes a candidate a few times failing in those roles to figure out how to find success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by WideNine

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

We still need a victory over the Chiefs more than against the Eagles. And, to be honest, I ‘d rather play the Eagles off a win than a loss.

 

 

To your first point-  right- obviously.  That doesn’t really have anything to do with my statement. 

 

To your second point-  could go either way.  If KC can provide us with some new insight on how to beat them, I’d rather that the case.  But if they don’t provide us any good info, I’d rather KC lose big!

[The Wiz]

Really impressed with the national media this morning.  All the focus is on how bad Wilson is as a QB and almost nothing is being said at all about the bills.  The ones that have anything to say, well you know it's negative.  

 

Good job on not watching the game fellas.  You earned your paycheck this week! 😄

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I had no reaction to yesterday. Which makes me believe I don’t think the Bills are a good football team.

 

 

[Beast]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

To your first point-  right- obviously.  That doesn’t really have anything to do with my statement. 

 

To your second point-  could go either way.  If KC can provide us with some new insight on how to beat them, I’d rather that the case.  But if they don’t provide us any good info, I’d rather KC lose big!

Yeah, obviously every team is different but I’d see how the Jets slowed the Eagles down and try to emulate to the best of their abilities.

 

On offense? We will need to win the game on the arm of Josh Allen. I don’t see the Bills running the ball effectively. The plus side is I believe the Bills can do just that…throw with a lot of success.

[Scott7975]

15 hours ago, Mango said:

Josh had a great game. Brady was able to get this team flowing. Something Dorsey couldn’t do, at least as of late. Big credit to both those guys tonight. I think this move was a good decision. 
 

But the “look what happens when you let Allen run” thing doesn’t fit here. He was 5/15 tonight. His game logs the rest of the season are 

 

6/36

3/7

3/46

4/17

4/14

2/11

7/17

7/41

8/44

4/14

 

I am not trying to get into a Dorsey v Brady argument but I also think it’s important to note as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was kinda pairing that with the rbs also running the ball.. also pairing that with having a mix of plays and not just one or the other.  I just am not good at wording stuff.  What I mean is they had an effort there to have a run game.  Also for the most part, when Josh wanted to run the football he wasn't hesitant.  He just ran.  Many times this season, you could tell he wanted to run but then stopped himself and then ultimately tried to run after the window closed.  That or he coulda ran but elected to throw a bad pass instead.

 

By having a mix a plays I mean... What both Dorsey and Daboll had a tendency to do is when they ran, if it worked, they just kept running until it was stopped and went back to the pass.  For me, I'd like to see them run a few good runs, throw the ball, run the ball... meaning keep the defense guessing.  We never did that.  Not even Daboll. Thats what always pissed me off about Daboll and also Dorsey.  I probably didn't word that very well either.  Hope you get what I mean.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Scott7975

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

18 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Really impressed with the national media this morning.  All the focus is on how bad Wilson is as a QB and almost nothing is being said at all about the bills.  The ones that have anything to say, well you know it's negative.  

 

Good job on not watching the game fellas.  You earned your paycheck this week! 😄

I am not going to blame anyone for holding off on the Joe Brady parade until he can show it for a stretch. I am not going to slam anyone for skepticism when my own is running quite high.

 

Now, if we keep this up vs Philly, KC, Dallas, then I will gripe like to the peak condition being a Bills fan has trained me to.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I am not going to blame anyone for holding off on the Joe Brady parade until he can show it for a stretch. I am not going to slam anyone for skepticism when my own is running quite high.

 

Now, if we keep this up vs Philly, KC, Dallas, then I will gripe like to the peak condition being a Bills fan has trained me to.

Exactly. It's one thing to beat the Jets at home. It's another thing altogether to beat the Eagles in Philadelphia.

 

Early opinions don't seem great in my mind. Depends if they get out of this game totally healthy, of course.

 

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I am not going to blame anyone for holding off on the Joe Brady parade until he can show it for a stretch. I am not going to slam anyone for skepticism when my own is running quite high.

 

Now, if we keep this up vs Philly, KC, Dallas, then I will gripe like to the peak condition being a Bills fan has trained me to.

 

4 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Exactly. It's one thing to beat the Jets at home. It's another thing altogether to beat the Eagles in Philadelphia.

 

Early opinions don't seem great in my mind. Depends if they get out of this game totally healthy, of course.

 

I'm not slamming them for skepticism or crowing anyone great.  Just thought it was interesting that they only thing they could talk about was how Wilson is bad and very little to no mention of the bills (defense or offense).

[WideNine]

17 minutes ago, Beast said:

Yeah, obviously every team is different but I’d see how the Jets slowed the Eagles down and try to emulate to the best of their abilities.

 

On offense? We will need to win the game on the arm of Josh Allen. I don’t see the Bills running the ball effectively. The plus side is I believe the Bills can do just that…throw with a lot of success.

 

Dunno if it is so much their scheme as it is their personnel.

 

The Jets can generate a lot of pressure and get sacks with just their front four vs 5-man protections which then allows their very good pair of LBs to stay clean and just play fast to the ball or cover the flats/RBs/TEs.

 

They also have a solid secondary with very good CBs and safeties.

 

The flip side of having that kind of defensive investment is it likely came at the expense of having a crap O-line, pedestrian QBs, and limited offensive weapons.

 

Of course they did fork a ton of money over to Rogers, but I wonder how much of a beating he could have taken behind that line if the Bills had not knocked him out of the lineup game 1.

 

Probably pretty happy to take his checks and safely watch his backups get pounded from afar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

Truly a masterful performance in all 3 phases against the jets and there's nothing really bad to say about the Bills (other than the gauntlet still ahead) coming off a very dominant performance against a top 5 NFL defense that has given pretty much every elite QB problems including JA17 previously.

 

But I think for myself and everyone else still skeptical, this team has to split with the Chiefs and Eagles (at minimum) to truly believe the playoffs are a real possibility again. And that's where I'm still very apprehensive given how horrible this team has been on the road this year especially losing to these same Jets and Patriots. In their lone road victory against WFT they resembled the team they were yesterday and that has to be the norm going forward.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

10 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Exactly. It's one thing to beat the Jets at home. It's another thing altogether to beat the Eagles in Philadelphia.

 

Early opinions don't seem great in my mind. Depends if they get out of this game totally healthy, of course.

 

Not to get too far ahead, but the Eagles are legit good. I was ready to call them a hype machine last year and while I am not a huge Hurts fan, they have an elite stable of WRs, run the ball enough to be effective, and they are great at short down conversion.

[Low Positive]

Part of what happened yesterday was that the Jets' defense finally broke down in the second half. You could see it with all the hits after the play. You could see the frustration boiling over. They have to be absolutely sick and tired of trying to carry that inept offense to close victories week after week. Players on defense are going to start holding out and/or demanding trades. 

[JerseyBills]

7 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Not to get too far ahead, but the Eagles are legit good. I was ready to call them a hype machine last year and while I am not a huge Hurts fan, they have an elite stable of WRs, run the ball enough to be effective, and they are great at short down conversion.

Bills are currently a 3.5 point underdog. Which will likely change a bit depending on how Philly looks tonight, injuries etc but Vegas is basically saying their 1.5 point favorites on a neutral field 

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

ST set the tone right out of the gate yesterday. 

 

Jim Nantz wasn't even finished talking about the ending of the first game and what it meant to the Bills season since then.

 

Boom, huge hit and fumble on the opening kickoff. 

 

Bills went on to kick their asses and I sincerely hope they never look back.

 

Let's GO Buffalo!!!

 

Yep talking about how the returner won the Jets the game and basically had to awkwardly finish the sentence with and then he fumbled.

[NewEra]

38 minutes ago, Beast said:

Yeah, obviously every team is different but I’d see how the Jets slowed the Eagles down and try to emulate to the best of their abilities.

 

On offense? We will need to win the game on the arm of Josh Allen. I don’t see the Bills running the ball effectively. The plus side is I believe the Bills can do just that…throw with a lot of success.

I agree.  I’d try and do why the jets did as well.  And if KC does something’s that can add to the blueprint, even better.  
 

I just don’t see us in any type of competition with KC atm with concerns to us making that playoffs other than our meeting in December.  I hope they beat the raiders, bengals and chargers.   Sucks that they don’t play any of the more formidable playoff contenders.  

[BananaB]

Bills backs are against the wall, I think they’ll only improve off this game. Yesterday was a bug confidence booster on O, thumping a D that gave you problems for 2 years. Bills gonna win in Philly

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I don’t root for injuries but when they happen, I don’t feel bad.  It’s a huge part of the game.  Injuries have ruined our seasons in the past.  If injuries ruin other teams seasons, good.  To beat a dead horse, winning SBs requires a lot of luck.  If other teams having injuries is part of our luck, I’ll take all the luck we can get

I'll feel bad for the player, but when I saw a tweet saying injuries opened a path for the Bills to make a run still, my thought was I wouldn't really feel bad about it after having to watch our defense die in the U.K.

2 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Sorry, if it's been said but I just read in a Sal article that Davis wasn't targeted once yesterday.

Good. We performed extremely well without him against a good D and other players are emerging. I hope this trend continues.

Wasn't like a first down catch he made that got erased by a penalty?

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Really impressed with the national media this morning.  All the focus is on how bad Wilson is as a QB and almost nothing is being said at all about the bills.  The ones that have anything to say, well you know it's negative.  

 

Good job on not watching the game fellas.  You earned your paycheck this week! 😄

Kind of weird for them not to at least play it up for the attention of the moment at least an interim OC and we have our best offensive performance against that Jets Defense in two years.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Warcodered

[Logic]

Obviously a win going into the bye would be huge, but...

Assuming the Bills need to go 5-2 the rest of the way to have a good shot at playoffs, tomorrow is one of the two games they can MOST afford to lose (the other being the Cowboys game).

Put simply: winning all of their remaining games would obviously be best, but if they HAVE to lose a couple, the NFC opponents would be the least harmful ones to lose.

[Beck Water]

57 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He’s only survived this long because he’s a pretty good run blocker I think. 

 

Davis?  People forget the splendid games he did turn in for the Bills.  4 receptions on 4 targets for 87 yds against IND, 2020.  Clutch clutch sideline toe taps.  We don't get to the AFCCG without him.  The 201 yd, 10 target 8 reception game against KC that took us to 13 seconds.  6 receptions on 9 targets, 113 yds against Miami last year.  And there have been regular season games too - 2022 3 receptions 171 yds against Pittsburgh, 6 rec 93 against Minn.  This season 6 for 92 against the Raidahs, 6 for 100 against Jax, 9 for 87 against Tampa.

 

Yes, he's a good downfield blocker (run or pass) but he's also been a key receiving target at times.

 

As fans we get recency bias and we want to be absolute.  The problem the coaches and FO face, is when they have a guy who shows flashes and who can take over the game at times, then disappears at others.  Do you part ways, in favor of an unproven rookie or a player from another team?  Or do you give your own guy more playing time and a chance to let the flashes turn into a steady light?    That's where the Bills FO has made some mistakes the last couple years, thinking that Davis was ready to be a full time #2 with Sanders retiring, and that McKenzie would be OK as a full time slot with the Bills moving on from Beasley.  This season, that Hardy would be a step up on McKenzie and that Davis was hampered last year with a lingering ankle and would be better this year.

 

Anyway, point is, for coaches and for the FO, I don't think the picture is generally so absolute as fans want to make it.  Gabe's been averaging 5 targets and 3 receptions per game this season.  That's a lot of targets for a guy who's around as a run blocker.

 

      

[Warcodered]

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

A great win for the Bills. I think the first true test of both the Offense and Defense is this coming up game against the Eagles. The Eagles have 2 good WR, a decent RB, and a QB who can run and throw add to that a top tier D and they should be a very good test to see what the Bills will be for the rest of the year.  If they still look good then the Bills have a strong chance to make the dance.. 

[Dukestreetking]

Carrying discussion of #86 a little further; nothing profound, but...

 

[1] Bills, or at least TBD, hoped for a "Beasley replacement", primarily as a sure-handed, go-to target/outlet, as well as a chain mover.

 

Conclusion: obviously only a rookie but he's getting there more quickly than I personally anticipated. 

 

[2] Top 5 TEs by reception totals are Hock, Engram, Kelce, Kincaid, LaPorta.

 

Normalizing for #targets, etc, it's interesting to look at Rec:Tgt (sure-handed), FD:Tgt (chain mover) ratios, along w Yac/Rec just for s&g.

 

H:    73.5; 39.2; 3.69

E:     79.7; 27.0; 5.17

Ke:   79.1; 41.7; 4.89

Ki:   87.9; 36.2; 4.29

L:    72.4; 36.2; 3.92

 

Reasonably favorable comparisons imv.**

 

[3] Looking at Beasley 2020, arguably his best year, he had 76.6 target success (Kincaid now at 87.9) and an incredible FD:Tgt rate of .495!! Again, Reuben not there yet, but looking the part.

 

**Realize many other issues on the table: TDs, explosive plays, yds/rec, etc. The data here are admittedly self-selective.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Dukestreetking

[BRH]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

A great win for the Bills. I think the first true test of both the Offense and Defense is this coming up game against the Eagles. The Eagles have 2 good WR, a decent RB, and a QB who can run and throw add to that a top tier D and they should be a very good test to see what the Bills will be for the rest of the year.  If they still look good then the Bills have a strong chance to make the dance.. 

 

All I want is to see them play the Eagles with the same kind of no-fear, *****-you attitude on offense that they bring to games against KC and Miami where they feel they have to score -- and score TDs -- on every drive.  They do that, I like their chances.  

[Dillenger4]

I am pumped for the Eagles game. I smell a Bills VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

[BRH]

19 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Carrying discussion of #86 a little further; nothing profound, but...

 

[1] Bills, or at least TBD, hoped for a "Beasley replacement", primarily as a sure-handed, go-to target/outlet, as well as a chain mover.

 

Conclusion: obviously only a rookie but he's getting there more quickly than I personally anticipated. 

 

[2] Top 5 TEs by reception totals are Hock, Engram, Kelce, Kincaid, LaPorta.

 

Normalizing for #targets, etc, it's interesting to look at Rec:Tgt (sure-handed), FD:Tgt (chain mover) ratios, along w Yac/Rec just for s&g.

 

H:    73.5; 39.2; 3.69

E:     79.7; 27.0; 5.17

Ke:   79.1; 41.7; 4.89

Ki:   87.9; 36.2; 4.29

L:    72.4; 36.2; 3.92

 

Reasonably favorable comparisons imv.**

 

[3] Looking at Beasley 2020, arguably his best year, he had 76.6 target success (Kincaid now at 87.9) and an incredible FD:Tgt rate of .495!! Again, Reuben not there yet, but looking the part.

 

**Realize many other issues on the table: TDs, explosive plays, yds/rec, etc. The data here are admittedly self-selective.

 

Good stuff, including the disclaimer  I would be interested in breaking FD:Tgt down further, e.g., 1-5 yards and 5+ yards to go for first down.  I could be wrong, but at this point in their careers, Kincaid seems to get comparatively more targets on 1st down than Kelce, which skews the percentages somewhat.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

39 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Davis?  People forget the splendid games he did turn in for the Bills.  4 receptions on 4 targets for 87 yds against IND, 2020.  Clutch clutch sideline toe taps.  We don't get to the AFCCG without him.  The 201 yd, 10 target 8 reception game against KC that took us to 13 seconds.  6 receptions on 9 targets, 113 yds against Miami last year.  And there have been regular season games too - 2022 3 receptions 171 yds against Pittsburgh, 6 rec 93 against Minn.  This season 6 for 92 against the Raidahs, 6 for 100 against Jax, 9 for 87 against Tampa.

 

Yes, he's a good downfield blocker (run or pass) but he's also been a key receiving target at times.

 

As fans we get recency bias and we want to be absolute.  The problem the coaches and FO face, is when they have a guy who shows flashes and who can take over the game at times, then disappears at others.  Do you part ways, in favor of an unproven rookie or a player from another team?  Or do you give your own guy more playing time and a chance to let the flashes turn into a steady light?    That's where the Bills FO has made some mistakes the last couple years, thinking that Davis was ready to be a full time #2 with Sanders retiring, and that McKenzie would be OK as a full time slot with the Bills moving on from Beasley.  This season, that Hardy would be a step up on McKenzie and that Davis was hampered last year with a lingering ankle and would be better this year.

 

Anyway, point is, for coaches and for the FO, I don't think the picture is generally so absolute as fans want to make it.  Gabe's been averaging 5 targets and 3 receptions per game this season.  That's a lot of targets for a guy who's around as a run blocker.

 

      

I didn’t mean all he can do is run block if it came off that way…he just has a longer leash because of it.  He’s capable of good plays but a bit of a one trick pony as far as the route tree goes.  I don’t think he’s bad by any means I just don’t think his production is difficult to replace.  He has this weird thing where he will make all the high difficulty plays and drop a ton of the easy ones lol it is bizarre 
 

he pretty often gets taken out of the equation in single coverage too 

[PatsFanNH]

29 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

All I want is to see them play the Eagles with the same kind of no-fear, *****-you attitude on offense that they bring to games against KC and Miami where they feel they have to score -- and score TDs -- on every drive.  They do that, I like their chances.  

Agreed! Even if they lose with that kind of energy I see them winning enough to make the dance no matter what.