Dan Orlovsky….. Bills offense is fundamentally broken

[The 9 Isles]

Good breakdown on one of the dumbest plays of the game 

 

 

 

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1724393205796352195?s=46&t=MIbg6oAskv25nrKbLbd_qQ

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, The 9 Isles said:

Good breakdown on one of the dumbest plays of the game 

 

 

 

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1724393205796352195?s=46&t=MIbg6oAskv25nrKbLbd_qQ

 

 

Dan orlovsky is an absolute moron every time I see him try to analyze a play lol. Kincaid is clearly going to be absolutely wide open presnap…nothing wrong with the playcall 

 

he’s literally explaining why teams do line up in shotgun on 4th and 1 when he’s trying to say that it’s dumb 😂. It gives you a wider variety of qb runs/rpo opportunities.  A qb run didn’t happen on this particular play but the defense has to respect it.  
 

josh flubbed this play and the entire game big time 

[Mango]

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying here at all. He makes two different points. 
 

1. He hates when teams put a QB in shotgun on 3rd/4th and short. Especially with having a QB run built into the play. Yes he’s complaining about Dorsey, but he’s complains about it across the league as well

 

2. “Why put a guy if you’re not going to use the information. Kincaid is your zone route and Josh is looking at the other side of the field”. This is his fundamental issue with the play. That we motioned, got a read on the defense, and didn’t even look at the proper receiver based on the information provided. So at that point he says “why put him in motion over and over again”. It’s not questioning the act of motioning Kincaid. He’s questioning why didn’t the QB use the formation it gave him. 

 

2 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Dan orlovsky is an absolute moron every time I see him try to analyze a play lol. Kincaid is clearly going to be absolutely wide open presnap…nothing wrong with the playcall 

 

he’s literally explaining why teams do line up in shotgun on 4th and 1 when he’s trying to say that it’s dumb 😂. It gives you a wider variety of qb runs/rpo opportunities.  A qb run didn’t happen on this particular play but the defense has to respect it.  
 

josh flubbed this play and the entire game big time 

I think the shotgun thing is just a pet peeve of his he can’t help himself but to comment on. 
 

The criticism of the play is that the QB didn’t even look that way when he proactively put a guy in motion and got the information that said “throw to Kincaid”.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Mango

[Pirate Angel]

All I can think about when I hear Dan Orlovsky is when he ran out of the back of the end zone and gave up a safety. Hard to listen to him critique anything after that 

[colin]

allen isn't tuned into the O, but then again, neither are the other players.

 

the frustrating thing about it is this team could just not make these errors, josh could scan the field prior to the snap, the backs could just hold onto the ball, spencer brown could just let one less terrible pressure a game.

 

and this is why i've been banging on the coaching drum.  the coaches set it all up, they have to make moves to reduce the bad and increase the good.  under center, less blitzing (or, coach the team to blitz better, i can't think of another team with pass rushers up front who bring a blitz into the a and b gaps and get swallowed EVERY TIME.  not one outside blitz), set up easy plays for the O.  recognize we are getting D'd up the exact same way w a zone, and run zone beaters.  how do we watch our zone get beat by zone beaters and not hammer those into our O?

[HappyDays]

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

There was someone who was in charge of the offense. Someone who like, coordinates it? 

 

I’ll do some digging but maybe this guy isn’t doing his job well enough. 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There was someone who was in charge of the offense. Someone who like, coordinates it? 

 

I’ll do some digging but maybe this guy isn’t doing his job well enough. 

I think somebody is losing their job at the bye. It could even be McD. I think the issue might be that they don’t have anybody they like enough to call plays. 
 

I feel like I also saw McD covering his face during some drives on offense. What are the chances this jabroni is calling plays on both sides of the ball?

[Simon]

Wow, what a gawdawful analysis.

 

[TwistofFate]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I've been saying it for weeks.  Dorsey has to go.  It's pathetic to watch.  No one is ever open.  There is no scheme. We don't create mismatches. This is just call a play and line up and screw it, whatever happens, happens. 

[HappyDays]

Here's the INT as dots:

 

Josh shouldn't have thrown the ball. But what are we doing here? This hole shot play has been picked several times this year, defenders are keyed into it. And we're running it with Deonte Harty with 27 seconds left in the half from our own side of the field? Dorsey is not putting his players in favorable positions.

[MAJBobby]

While Dan sometimes lets his wants get in the way of his breakdowns and why I like Baldys more. 
 

the Statement he made is absolutely true. Why do you run Pre-Snap Motion if you are not going to use the information provided to you during that motion. 
 

far to often have I seen the pre-snap motion and no adjustment in the route/play/concept based off the information gained on that motion. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

While Dan sometimes lets his wants get in the way of his breakdowns and why I like Baldys more. 
 

the Statement he made is absolutely true. Why do you run Pre-Snap Motion if you are not going to use the information provided to you during that motion. 
 

far to often have I seen the pre-snap motion and no adjustment in the route/play/concept based off the information gained on that motion. 

It’s offensive mad libs. He understands presnap motion is a thing, but not why.

[Bob Jones]

11 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I've been saying it for weeks.  Dorsey has to go.  It's pathetic to watch.  No one is ever open.  There is no scheme. We don't create mismatches. This is just call a play and line up and screw it, whatever happens, happens. 

Be careful here. You'll get some homers in here show up and puke on you or roll their eyes on you because "who are you?" "You're just a couch QB who knows nothing. Those coaches are professionals!"

 

You and I and others with functional brains know that it ain't rocket science out there, but amazingly, many in here think it is.

[Since1981]

"Hurry put our 12 personnel package in for a block kick"

[BRH]

5 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

"Hurry put our 12 personnel package in for a block kick"

 

That's it!  Some of our players must be so dumb they think "12 personnel" means 12 guys on the field.

[MikePJ76]

The Bills could have run for 350 yards last night.  Denver was giving them the numbers in the running game up front every time.  Even late in the game they said go ahead.  All because they know they would not just run the ball.  

 

The bills media and the fanbase want this team to play 10 or 11 personnel all the time.  

 

This was elementary football, NFL 101 last night.  They were rushing 4 and dropping seven every down.  They were begging buffalo to pass and giving them the run and the bills tried to pass over and over.  

 

They should have had two backs with over 150 yards, won the T.O.P. and forced Denver to attack the run which would have given diggs and kinkaid one on ones all night.   

 

They just wont do it.  It seems the head coach had his hands in everything this offseason and I thought they were going to be a smarter team that ran the ball better because of this but instead it seems they are just all over the place.  How could mcdermott not demand they run the ball after the looks they were seeing and the early second turnover.  

 

Now the season is lost and the Bills will have to play the role of the spoiler and hope guys like Diggs do not  create a situation where Allen and the Bills are public enemy number 1, the national media has been preparing for that all year.  The week Dallas comes to Buffalo I imagine is the week the crap could hit the fan.  Also Trevon Diggs talking about his brother needing to get up out of there like he is something special makes my head explode.  I hope the team remembers he said that in a few weeks.  

 

McDermott has been outmatched against good coaches this year.  They have beat him at the fundamentals and in the critical moments of the games.  There is no reason he or any member of the staff should be back.  I am not sure that happens though because it appears the General Manager works for him.  The bills have a setup like KC, Denver, New England etc....without the proven head coach who deserves all that credibility.  

 

and for anyone who says the defense will get worse without him he is a good coordinator....well teams turn it around with good coaching hires every year.  Look at Minnesota's defense, Houston's defense.    There are plenty of good coordinators around.  This team needs to hire a head coach and two real coordinators with real systems in february.  

 

I can't believe the season is over before thanksgiving and we have to sit through another year of our lives just hoping they don't screw up coaching hires, the draft and free agency before we get to camp where we have to hope key players do not get injured.  It just plain sucks.

 

One more thing, that P.I. at the end of the game is the reason Baseball is the best sport.  In Baseball you have to earn every win.  In the NFL you can actually make the play up front and make the qb retreat and just throw a lollipop because he knows its one on one and then not make the play only to be rewarded with a first down at the spot which ensured a field goal attempt.  It is just an awful penalty and stuff like that happens every week.  the league wants these games this way and they will always have them.  

 

I cant wait for Yankees spring training.

Edited November 14, 2023 by MikePJ76

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Here's the INT as dots:

 

Josh shouldn't have thrown the ball. But what are we doing here? This hole shot play has been picked several times this year, defenders are keyed into it. And we're running it with Deonte Harty with 27 seconds left in the half from our own side of the field? Dorsey is not putting his players in favorable positions.

 

I'm sorry but how the hell do you throw this? 

 

15 yard out... at a corner who is... 10 YARDS from the line of scrimmage and will have his eyes on Allen at least until harty breaks....  It's also underthrown... basically a jump ball to the smallest guy on the team.  You could have moss and thats a bad play.  

 

Take smash.. high low... whatever you wanna call it - and burn it out of the playbook.  

[Green Lightning]

13 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Be careful here. You'll get some homers in here show up and puke on you or roll their eyes on you because "who are you?" "You're just a couch QB who knows nothing. Those coaches are professionals!"

 

You and I and others with functional brains know that it ain't rocket science out there, but amazingly, many in here think it is.

Right. But then just point to the results. Our elite QB is a turnover machine and we insist the way to get a 3rd or 4th and one is to shotgun 5 yards from the LOS. Mostly due to the crap OL we have. 

[stlbills13]

Orlovsky has been right about a lot of things regarding the Bills this season but he's gotten to the point of being annoying and repetitive now. 

[Nuncha]

5 minutes ago, stlbills13 said:

Orlovsky has been right about a lot of things regarding the Bills this season but he's gotten to the point of being annoying and repetitive now. 

Annoying and repetitive, just like the ugliness of our offense.

[SDS]

1 hour ago, The 9 Isles said:

Good breakdown on one of the dumbest plays of the game 

 

 

 

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1724393205796352195?s=46&t=MIbg6oAskv25nrKbLbd_qQ

 

 

was it a good breakdown? Shakir was wide-open in the middle of the field and Dan completely ignores him. How much else did he say was completely wrong?

[Meatloaf63]

31 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

"Hurry put our 12 personnel package in for a block kick"

Might be too soon for that🤦‍♂️🤪🙃

[MAJBobby]

I also want to pile on some more. There is ZERO creativity in this offense. We have a play caller at best. Not an Offensive Coordinator. 
 

do the right thing Terry find me a young innovative offensive minded head coach like the McD in Miami. 
 

ooo also Beane then SUPPORT that offense and QB once again like MIA with Tua 

[Avisan]

51 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I've been saying it for weeks.  Dorsey has to go.  It's pathetic to watch.  No one is ever open.  There is no scheme. We don't create mismatches. This is just call a play and line up and screw it, whatever happens, happens. 

There were literally several players open for the first on this play lol

 

This stuff is so maddening because you can see that the play design actually works in terms of getting people open but Josh either doesn't see it or the open receiver drops it

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, Avisan said:

There were literally several players open for the first on this play lol

 

This stuff is so maddening because you can see that the play design actually works in terms of getting people open but Josh either doesn't see it or the open receiver drops it

for those giving a high five on Dan’s analysis it’s quite telling her that they’d rather listen to Dan’s words than believe what they see what their own eyes.

[Avisan]

Just now, SDS said:

for those giving a high five on Dan’s analysis it’s quite telling her that they’d rather listen to Dan’s words than believe what they see what their own eyes.

Yeah.  The coaching staff may well have some insurmountable limitations, but poor player execution is the demonstrable cause of many of our offensive woes, and most of those errors don't appear to be due to design complexity or anything unusual or novel at the NFL level.

 

Like okay, replace the coaches-- is that going to solve our ability to read the defense, catch the ball, hang onto the ball, or finish tackles?

[SDS]

Just now, Avisan said:

Yeah.  The coaching staff may well have some insurmountable limitations, but poor player execution is the demonstrable cause of many of our offensive woes, and most of those errors don't appear to be due to design complexity or anything unusual or novel at the NFL level.

 

Like okay, replace the coaches-- is that going to solve our ability to read the defense, catch the ball, hang onto the ball, or finish tackles?

from your lips to gods ears. I thought I was the only one fighting this battle.

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Yeah.  The coaching staff may well have some insurmountable limitations, but poor player execution is the demonstrable cause of many of our offensive woes, and most of those errors don't appear to be due to design complexity or anything unusual or novel at the NFL level.

 

Like okay, replace the coaches-- is that going to solve our ability to read the defense, catch the ball, hang onto the ball, or finish tackles?

IMO it's not all play calling. IMO it's that Allen has regressed as a QB the last year and a half. It goes back to making him something he is not. He is not a pocket passer. He was at his best when we was scrambling and making throws off of that. He's never been good at reading the defense. 

[Nuncha]

20 minutes ago, SDS said:

was it a good breakdown? Shakir was wide-open in the middle of the field and Dan completely ignores him. How much else did he say was completely wrong?

He clearly addresses it at 1:52, and even points to "the deep sit".  Shakir had a wall in front of him.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nuncha

[Avisan]

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

IMO it's not all play calling. IMO it's that Allen has regressed as a QB the last year and a half. It goes back to making him something he is not. He is not a pocket passer. He was at his best when we was scrambling and making throws off of that. He's never been good at reading the defense. 

The problem is that this isn't a sustainable approach.  Defenses have started rushing three and double-spying on third down, for example.  You can't just scramble and pull rabbits out of hats forever.  We used to complain about our offense relying on Josh being Superman-- I don't think that was ever true.  I think Josh WANTS to scramble and do Superman stuff because the pocket passing is difficult for him, and teams have adjusted to that.  If he wants to be an elite QB for the rest of his career, he needs to develop his pocket game.

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

for those giving a high five on Dan’s analysis it’s quite telling her that they’d rather listen to Dan’s words than believe what they see what their own eyes.

 

I feel like C1 recently did the same with a catchy title, but then didn't actually provide any evidence to support the title. Nobody watched/listened. And it just became a circus. It has just become the most casual and generalized talking point. 

I don't understand how calling a play with the right checks to identify the defense, and the right route concept is called to beat the defense pre-snap, then the QB doesn't even look in that general direction, and the everybody's go to is the entire offensive design? Like what else do we want? I am open to talking about maybe running the ball or a sneak seeing as how well the OL was playing. Maybe talk about rolling Josh out and make the defense defend his legs. But ultimately the QB didn't understand the defense and where to go with the ball based on it. 

 

Dorsey isn't getting anything out of Allen. We need to move on and that is OK. I don't mind it. Josh Allen has to be the priority. But also it is like everything that happens is getting pushed on Dorsey, even when it works. 

After last night, I am actually coming around to thinking that McD is the issue here and as things get worse, the reigns get tighter. The tighter the reigns the worse Josh gets. And now we are in this cycle. Dorsey called a great game vs the Jets, Raiders and Dolphins. The Washington game was OK. Like WTF is going on here? 

 

[teef]

as others have alluded to...i don't think it's any one specific problem.  Coaching call are questionable, josh hasn't been himself, players just are executing, etc.  All that rolled into one creates the ***** show we get to watch now.  I suppose this all circles back to management and coaching, so something needs to be tweaked.  the only way i thought mcd could lose his job this year would be if the bills tanked and missed the playoffs.  we're on the door step of that now.

[Avisan]

7 minutes ago, SDS said:

from your lips to gods ears. I thought I was the only one fighting this battle.

Yeah, not really sure how it gets addressed, either.  It seems like the players are putting in effort on game day, so a simple remotivation isn't going to suddenly change anything.  The schemes appear to be generally effective in setting up players for success on offense and defense.  We aren't the McDaniels Raiders.

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, Avisan said:

The problem is that this isn't a sustainable approach.  Defenses have started rushing three and double-spying on third down, for example.  You can't just scramble and pull rabbits out of hats forever.  We used to complain about our offense relying on Josh being Superman-- I don't think that was ever true.  I think Josh WANTS to scramble and do Superman stuff because the pocket passing is difficult for him, and teams have adjusted to that.  If he wants to be an elite QB for the rest of his career, he needs to develop his pocket game.

I don't think he will ever be that elite QB. For one he doesn't seem interested in leaning it. If he was interested, he would spend the off seasons studying. At this point this is who he is. 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Pirate Angel said:

All I can think about when I hear Dan Orlovsky is when he ran out of the back of the end zone and gave up a safety. Hard to listen to him critique anything after that 

this take is the equivalent of running out of the back of the proverbial end zone 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Here's the INT as dots:

 

Josh shouldn't have thrown the ball. But what are we doing here? This hole shot play has been picked several times this year, defenders are keyed into it. And we're running it with Deonte Harty with 27 seconds left in the half from our own side of the field? Dorsey is not putting his players in favorable positions.

 

Both flats are wide open as is Gabe over the middle. You’re right, at least 3 ints on that play just this year. I can remember Tennessee and kc getting one in the past also.

 

 

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Both flats are wide open as is Gabe over the middle. You’re right, at least 3 ints on that play just this year. I can remember Tennessee and kc getting one in the past also.

 

 

Gabe isn’t open until after the ball is thrown. Ball should have gone to cook and he would have gotten 7 or so

[Bruffalo]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Both flats are wide open as is Gabe over the middle. You’re right, at least 3 ints on that play just this year. I can remember Tennessee and kc getting one in the past also.

 

 

Gabe isn't open until the ball is already out of Allen's hands. The flats are open, he should have gone to Cook I guess, but it's a bad play call. 

[Chicken Boo]

54 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

The Bills could have run for 350 yards last night.  Denver was giving them the numbers in the running game up front every time.  Even late in the game they said go ahead.  All because they know they would not just run the ball.  

 

The bills media and the fanbase want this team to play 10 or 11 personnel all the time.  

 

This was elementary football, NFL 101 last night.  They were rushing 4 and dropping seven every down.  They were begging buffalo to pass and giving them the run and the bills tried to pass over and over.  

 

They should have had two backs with over 150 yards, won the T.O.P. and forced Denver to attack the run which would have given diggs and kinkaid one on ones all night.   

 

They just wont do it.  It seems the head coach had his hands in everything this offseason and I thought they were going to be a smarter team that ran the ball better because of this but instead it seems they are just all over the place.  How could mcdermott not demand they run the ball after the looks they were seeing and the early second turnover.  

 

This is what gets me.  They were having great success running the football.  Why not keep at it?  

 

It makes no sense.