You need playmakers in this league. We have a very short supply of them.

[Beast]

On offense we have two. Allen and Stef Diggs. Dalton Kincaid has promise but isn’t there yet.

 

Shakir, Sherfield, Harty, Knox…they are all JAGS.

 

But that puts them ahead of “Big play Gabe” Davis. The end of year can’t come quick enough to send this guy packing.

 

Our RB’s……any big plays there?

 

When is the last explosive play we’ve had on offense? I can think of Diggs play tonight and am having a hard time thinking of when the last one before that was. Maybe I’m just getting old and can’t remember them.

 

On defense?

 

We had Milano.

 

Our defensive line absolutely is a disappointment. I can’t recall the last time they made a game changing play. Rousseau finally batted a ball down tonight. That’s the first impact play he’s made in a month. Epenesa, Floyd, Oliver, Von Miller…..getting near the QB is not enough. There have been FAR too many resources spent on this unit with high draft picks and big contracts to not expect a strip sack once in a damned while. 
 

DB’s? Let’s be honest, Hyde and Poyer are washed. Zero impact plays here.

 

Tre White, Benford, Jackson, Johnson, Elam….just nothing. INT’s and forced fumbles are so far and few between I can’t remember the last one this unit made.

 

I’m not getting into the coaching here. They’re another issue but I’m keeping this just to the players.

 

The Bills have a bunch of JAGs, Josh Allen, Stef Diggs and an up and coming Kincaid.

 

That’s it folks. That clearly isn’t enough.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Beast

[Dr.Sack]

Tre, Milano, and Da’Quan were missed tonight.

[Beast]

10 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Tre, Milano, and Da’Quan were missed tonight.

Milano is a playmaker. I said as much.

 

Jones is missed. Tre White? OK, Tre’s a good player. But this thread is talking about making plays. Interceptions. Forced fumbles. Big sacks. Electric plays on offense. Big chunk, long TD plays.

 

Who do we have that is making these plays?

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Beast

[Dr.Sack]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

Milano is a playmaker. I said as much.

 

Jones is missed. Tre White? OK, Tre’s a good player. But this thread is talking about making plays. Interceptions. Forced fumbles. Big sacks. Electric plays on offense. Big chunk, long TD plays.

 

Who do we have that is making these plays?

 

 

Tre made a huge pick this year vs Washington. We could use picks like that, no? 

[Special K]

Pretty sure its been covered that Defenses are playing 2-deep safeties against the Bills for the express purpose of taking away the big play.

 

As for the D....Milano was its main big playmaker for sure.....the D-line is supposedly full of playmakers, but they are not producing at a level they need to be.

 

However, holding the Bengals to 24 points with the amount of injuries on that side of the ball is just about as much as you could ask....it should have been enough to win if the O(particularly JA) would have played up to the level they are capable of.

[34-78-83]

Shakir made plays and yac, 2nd week in a row.

 

I agree with your point overall, however OP

[Aussie Joe]

Can’t win without turnovers 

[ALLinALLEN]

Agreed. Let me edit this and say - our best wr 2 since we’ve known Allen’s been a top 3 qb (2019) has been John brown or Cole Beasley. That’s embarrassing. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by ALLinALLEN

[Beast]

Just now, Dr.Sack said:

Tre made a huge pick this year vs Washington. We could use picks like that, no? 

OK, well we don’t have Tre, do we? And we may never have him again.

 

 

[Bferra13]

16 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Can’t win without turnovers 

So shizcan the dminded coach who does nothing for us.

[Comebackkid]

well...when we had all of our D starters we were leading the league in turnovers i believe.   but your right..we are missing stars.   Beane is has been good drafting lower rounds and horrible first and second round.   Its put the team in a bind because then your spending money trying to cover your ass on players missed on the draft.   

To me thats one of the biggest fears bout players llke poyer and hyde getting over the hill and why they are still around...i dont trust them to be able to draft 

replacements and i dont think they have faith in it either.  

 

[ChrisWatson#21]

This is the main problem.  It is why Josh presses often and makes mistakes because nobody is going to come save him.  No running game, no impact players on defense and a bad coaching staff which means every play there is pressure to be perfect.  

[strive_for_five_guy]

When is anyone going to mention Playoff Lenny?  Guy is going to be Josh’s best friend in that backfield.

[Dr.Sack]

Burrow doesn’t force passes into cover 2 shells as often as Allen does. If it’s a pass to Davis in the gap, it’s likely not going to be completed, so I question why take the shot? A turnover is more likely than Davis hauling in a perfect touch pass. Allen to Davis tonight was off, and I think it had something to do with the Bengals pressing Davis right at the line and eliminating him getting a free release.

[Nelius]

I don't really agree with this. Miami truly has nobody at WR after their big 2, and their tight ends are an absolute waste land. They actually somehow still have Tyler Kroft on their roster. Yes, the same Tyler Kroft. Jets are similarly awful after Garrett Wilson and probably shouldn't have had such a falling out with Moore considering that they're still in contention. Our "JAGS" are truly better than other teams JAGS, it's coaching and execution.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Nelius said:

I don't really agree with this. Miami truly has nobody at WR after their big 2, and their tight ends are an absolute waste land. They actually somehow still have Tyler Kroft on their roster. Yes, the same Tyler Kroft. Jets are similarly awful after Garrett Wilson and probably shouldn't have had such a falling out with Moore considering that they're still in contention. Our "JAGS" are truly better than other teams JAGS, it's coaching and execution.

Braxton Berrios has more receiving yards than Harty and Sherfield combined

[Aussie Joe]

6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

When is anyone going to mention Playoff Lenny?  Guy is going to be Josh’s best friend in that backfield.

We getting his brother Regular Season Lenny instead 

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Braxton Berrios has more receiving yards than Harty and Sherfield combined

Again, coaching and execution. Braxton Berrios had 18 catches last year. He should not be putting up better numbers than Gabe and Harty and you can't possibly believe that he's actually better than both. 

[BBFL]

Excuses. Every team has a lack of talent somewhere. It’s about making that as less noticeable as possible by masking it with your strengths. 
 

That comes down to coaching. This team is between middle of the pack to top 5 (16 to 5) in the league right now. There is a surplus of talent on this roster to be a top 5 but too many errors lead us to underwhelming performances. That falls on the staff. 
 

We are a paradigm of hoping instead of believing. Don’t know why we got away from that mindset…

 

injuries hamper every team, even the best ones and Super Bowl winners but you have a top 3 QB in the league. Scoring and winning shouldn’t be this anemic or hard. 

 

[Mango]

The Bills need to be rotating young talent at WR. Diggs and Allen are hefty costs going forward. 
 

I think Diggs, Kincade, Cook, Davis, and Shakir are “OK” not the greatest group, but not as terrible as some would make it seem. Certainly go ahead and upgrade them. I won’t argue against it. But it will have to be cheaply through the draft. 
 

Some of the problem is making the plays that are there. The other part is using those guys properly situationally. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Again, coaching and execution. Braxton Berrios had 18 catches last year. He should not be putting up better numbers than Gabe and Harty and you can't possibly believe that he's actually better than both. 

The list of wideouts I think are better than Davis is pretty long tbh

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

On offense we have two. Allen and Stef Diggs. Dalton Kincaid has promise but isn’t there yet.

 

Shakir, Sherfield, Harty, Knox…they are all JAGS.

 

But that puts them ahead of “Big play Gabe” Davis. The end of year can’t come quick enough to send this guy packing.

 

Our RB’s……any big plays there?

 

When is the last explosive play we’ve had on offense? I can think of Diggs play tonight and am having a hard time thinking of when the last one before that was. Maybe I’m just getting old and can’t remember them.

 

On defense?

 

We had Milano.

 

Our defensive line absolutely is a disappointment. I can’t recall the last time they made a game changing play. Rousseau finally batted a ball down tonight. That’s the first impact play he’s made in a month. Epenesa, Floyd, Oliver, Von Miller…..getting near the QB is not enough. There have been FAR too many resources spent on this unit with high draft picks and big contracts to not expect a strip sack once in a damned while. 
 

DB’s? Let’s be honest, Hyde and Poyer are washed. Zero impact plays here.

 

Tre White, Benford, Jackson, Johnson, Elam….just nothing. INT’s and forced fumbles are so far and few between I can’t remember the last one this unit made.

 

I’m not getting into the coaching here. They’re another issue but I’m keeping this just to the players.

 

The Bills have a bunch of JAGs, Josh Allen, Stef Diggs and an up and coming Kincaid.

 

That’s it folks. That clearly isn’t enough.

 

 

Another dominant WR has been the need since this team decided to sign Emmanuel Sanders in 2021.

 

We’ve stalled on offense because we haven’t kept adding elite talent - it was Diggs and then we stopped. 
 

You're 100% right - Beane’s premise was wrong.

 

After 13-seconds Beane thought two things: 

 

1. Keep the core together. 

2. We need more pass rush.

 

I said it and thought it when they signed Sanders to be their #2 when he was waffling on retirement (sound familiar) - they need another explosive playmaker.

 

The 2020 AFCCG showed you that. You didn’t have enough to keep up with the Chiefs. 
 

And instead it’s been junk pile and yard sales and thrift stores.

 

First round this year, and especially should be a good pick when we miss the Playoffs, have to, must, get a #1 WR in here. 
 

 

 

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

The list of wideouts I think are better than Davis is pretty long tbh

Fair, he's not a #2 and I've agreed with that take for weeks now. I still think our collective JAGs are better than a lot of other teams. It's pretty rough out there. Outside of the very obvious #2 void, which is impactful, I don't think it's much of a valid complaint. I mean the Browns are still giving Marquise Goodwin regular snaps.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Fair, he's not a #2 and I've agreed with that take for weeks now. I still think our collective JAGs are better than a lot of other teams. It's pretty rough out there. Outside of the very obvious #2 void, which is impactful, I don't think it's much of a valid complaint. I mean the Browns are still giving Marquise Goodwin regular snaps.

See I would disagree w that take

 

Imo our talent on offense is below average

[Scott7975]

We have enough play makers on offense to succeed on offense. It’s the wrong offense for Josh. 

[Freddie's Dead]

I will differ with the OP on one point.  Dane Jackson was the only player on defense to really show up tonight.  Had a helluva game until that big play to Tee Higgins on the last Bengals drive.  Hyde made two big plays, the PD where he got dinged up, and the rejection on 2nd down.  Other than that, Hyde got pwned.  Both Hyde and Poyer have lost a step, and their replacements are not on the current roster (Rapp?  Biatch, please).

[Dr.Sack]

I think our defense needs to practice corralling scrambling QBs. 

[Nelius]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

See I would disagree w that take

 

Imo our talent on offense is below average

Guess it's a matter of opinion but would like to know an example of depth that you think might bring it home? Even excluding Davis, the Kincaid-Harty-Shakir, even Sherfield combo is better than what a lot of teams are working with as 3rd-5th options. Weirdly enough Baltimore has pretty solid depth which was always their issue for years but beyond that I'm not seeing anything other than Cincy

[Comebackkid]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Another dominant WR has been the need since this team decided to sign Emmanuel Sanders in 2021.

 

We’ve stalled on offense because we haven’t kept adding elite talent - it was Diggs and then we stopped. 
 

You're 100% right - Beane’s premise was wrong.

 

After 13-seconds Beane thought two things: 

 

1. Keep the core together. 

2. We need more pass rush.

 

I said it and thought it when they signed Sanders to be their #2 when he was waffling on retirement (sound familiar) - they need another explosive playmaker.

 

The 2020 AFCCG showed you that. You didn’t have enough to keep up with the Chiefs. 
 

And instead it’s been junk pile and yard sales and thrift stores.

 

First round this year, and especially should be a good pick when we miss the Playoffs, have to, must, get a #1 WR in here. 
 

 

 

he wasnt wrong...   the way to beat Burrow is harrass him with the pass rush. the problem is, they have dumped resources over and over and over and are 

still a hit and miss when it comes to the pass rush.   In doing so it has taken away the ability to do more on the offense

2 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I will differ with the OP on one point.  Dane Jackson was the only player on defense to really show up tonight.  Had a helluva game until that big play to Tee Higgins on the last Bengals drive.  Hyde made two big plays, the PD where he got dinged up, and the rejection on 2nd down.  Other than that, Hyde got pwned.  Both Hyde and Poyer have lost a step, and their replacements are not on the current roster (Rapp?  Biatch, please).

so funny and so true. 

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

On offense we have two. Allen and Stef Diggs. Dalton Kincaid has promise but isn’t there yet.

 

Shakir, Sherfield, Harty, Knox…they are all JAGS.

 

But that puts them ahead of “Big play Gabe” Davis. The end of year can’t come quick enough to send this guy packing.

 

Our RB’s……any big plays there?

 

When is the last explosive play we’ve had on offense? I can think of Diggs play tonight and am having a hard time thinking of when the last one before that was. Maybe I’m just getting old and can’t remember them.

 

On defense?

 

We had Milano.

 

Our defensive line absolutely is a disappointment. I can’t recall the last time they made a game changing play. Rousseau finally batted a ball down tonight. That’s the first impact play he’s made in a month. Epenesa, Floyd, Oliver, Von Miller…..getting near the QB is not enough. There have been FAR too many resources spent on this unit with high draft picks and big contracts to not expect a strip sack once in a damned while. 
 

DB’s? Let’s be honest, Hyde and Poyer are washed. Zero impact plays here.

 

Tre White, Benford, Jackson, Johnson, Elam….just nothing. INT’s and forced fumbles are so far and few between I can’t remember the last one this unit made.

 

I’m not getting into the coaching here. They’re another issue but I’m keeping this just to the players.

 

The Bills have a bunch of JAGs, Josh Allen, Stef Diggs and an up and coming Kincaid.

 

That’s it folks. That clearly isn’t enough.

 

 

L

A

M

P

 

[Dopey]

18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The list of wideouts I think are better than Davis is pretty long tbh

That’s not surprising. He’s a late 4th round pick making less than $1 million annually. You get what you pay for. Never understood the angst here towards him. He’s outplayed his contract over the course of it. People get mad over the dumbest things. Not saying you, just this board and Gabe in general. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Dopey said:

That’s not surprising. He’s a late 4th round pick making less than $1 million annually. You get what you pay for. Never understood the angst here towards him. He’s outplayed his contract over the course of it. People get mad over the dumbest things. Not saying you, just this board and Gabe in general. 

That's the entire point

 

They don't want to pay for offense yet everyone expects crazy production from a collection of mid tier talent

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

Can’t win without turnovers 

Can’t win with them either. Our qb leads the league in ints again. He’s tied with guys like Sam Howell, Mac Jones, and Jimmy G. League leader in turnovers over the past three seasons. 

[Brand J]

I wish Rousseau would’ve taken a big step forward this year, but it seems he’s the Robin to a Batman. The Phil Hansen to a Bruce Smith. None of our defensive lineman are feared by other teams. Collectively, when healthy, they’re great and can play off of each other. Individually? Just “good,” but good isn’t good enough. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Braxton Berrios has more receiving yards than Harty and Sherfield combined

The 4th and 5th WR’s who don’t get many snaps?

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

That's the entire point

 

They don't want to pay for offense yet everyone expects crazy production from a collection of mid tier talent

This recent stretch aside, we have produced. 2nd in the league in scored last season. I’m not sure why people except that from mid tier talent. That’s on them, but collectively, we’ve produced. 
I know we can’t take the game away, but minus the 70 point explosion by Miami vs the Broncos, we’re both averaging around 26.6 per game. All that talent on offense for them. San Fran and Dallas are outscoring us by a whopping:

.6 and .8 points per game respectively. Most people say those teams have a ton more talent on offense. We’re on par with most teams as far as talent on offense. This opinion is subjective so I’m going to say IMO. 

[GunnerBill]

They are down their two biggest playmakers on D - Milano and White. 

 

They don't have enough playmakers on O. 

 

I don't think the team the Bills put on the field last night is good enough to win a Superbowl. The team that bashed Miami up? That team had a shot. But what has happened since starting with Tre's achillies at the end of that game has ended any title hopes this year. 

 

That does NOT mean that everyone else, GM, coach, QB, players left gets a pass. They don't. But the Bills are not a Superbowl team this year. Can they scrape into the playoffs is the question. 

[Scott7975]

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

We have enough play makers on offense to succeed on offense. It’s the wrong offense for Josh. 

 

Laugh all you want suckers.  They aren't going to fill the oline with #1 draft picks and the WR room full of the Devonta Adams and the Hopkins of the world.  It just isn't going to happen and shouldn't need to happen.  The Chiefs had about the same talent as us last season. This season they don't have one guy as good as Diggs.  Not even Kelce.  He is old and hobbled all year and his other receivers suck.  They still winning.  Who the Ravens got? Flowers?  Broken ODB?  They still winning.

 

This team has enough talent. It's the coaching not using that talent to their strengths.  You can keep disagreeing while you watch Josh get wasted with Dorsey. 

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Can’t win without turnovers 

We can win without turnovers….as long as we don’t turn it over.  
 

 

[Bruffalo]

11 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Tre, Milano, and Da’Quan were missed tonight.

Were they though? 

 

This team needs to go all in on offense.