Chaos Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 It seems like tackling is a lost art in the NFL overall. But Bill's fans perspective's may be skewed because we may be particularly bad at tackling. I am perfectly willing to blame injuries as the primary reason for the bad tackling, but it does not really change the fact that the tackling is bad. Top tackling teams. Feel free to hate PFF. I just don't anywhere else to source tackling data of any type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 its a structural issue in the d tho. guys guys and often dbs screaming down the pitch to fill in gaps and make tackles, it will always result in more misses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 Interesting Note, the Bills have played the top 3 tackling teams, and 4 of the top 8. This may further skew my view of the Bills tackling. 1 minute ago, colin said: screaming down the pitch What is this "pitch" you speak of. Is that like a football field that they play soccer on? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Chaos said: Interesting Note, the Bills have played the top 3 tackling teams, and 4 of the top 8. This may further skew my view of the Bills tackling. What is this "pitch" you speak of. Is that like a football field that they play soccer on? it's a good word to use in the place of field, and you know this. don't let the nature of your name corrupt you. you never go full chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 bills have not been a good tackling team under McDermott 2 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: bills have not been a good tackling team under McDermott Coming from a defensive coach it’s not a good thing. True. But very sad 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Tackling is against the rules now. But teams can’t practice the way they used to (Oklahoma drills 3 days a week was so cool! 😞). Plus we have a smallish defense. but it’s an epidemic around the nfl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 35 minutes ago, Chaos said: It seems like tackling is a lost art in the NFL overall. But Bill's fans perspective's may be skewed because we may be particularly bad at tackling. I am perfectly willing to blame injuries as the primary reason for the bad tackling, but it does not really change the fact that the tackling is bad. Top tackling teams. Feel free to hate PFF. I just don't anywhere else to source tackling data of any type. Is there anything on there that has yards allowed after a missed tackle? I'd be more interested in that then general tackle rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Bills have never been great tacklers and seem to focus on getting more people around the ball versus making 1 on 1 tackles. I'd bet most of their missed tackles come on run plays where they sometimes have 3 or 4 guys not bring a guy down and then the final guy brings him down. Seems to happen on runs where they stretch out the RB a lot behind the LOS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerx Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Wouldn't yards allowed after contact add a lot of context to this number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) Edited October 30, 2023 by Jauronimo 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Scheme has a little to do with it but it’s definitely been a problem since McD’s gotten here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Tackling is a process. Trust it. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleezoid Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 I blame it on "Angry Runs." Everyone wants the scepter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: I hope fans can truly appreciate how terrible our DT situation is right now. Phillips, Ford & Settle combined don't equal one qualified roster spot. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 hours ago, mrags said: Coming from a defensive coach it’s not a good thing. True. But very sad I think I remember reading something about how Bills in particular were limiting how much they hit in pads during preseason/practices But I think it's probably a league wide issue wrt cba rules...that said bills still have been pretty poor last few yrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Our only good tackler broke his leg. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Yep, pretty much confirmed by the eye test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) Good tackling is exhausting and painful. A lot of guys use the missile style or shoulder tackle instead of the traditional wrap up. Drives me nuts when guys don’t finish a play, and instead try to shoulder a guy or unnecessarily lunge. This is especially true on bang-bang receptions, and when closing in quickly 1v1. Always finish the play: you never know when a hand or face mask will jar a ball loose Edited October 30, 2023 by EmotionallyUnstable 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Not a good issue to have given the forthcoming schedule. Other than Miami, the highest ranked rushing team we've played is the Giants, who rank 15th in Rushing YPG. 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: bills have not been a good tackling team under McDermott It's part of fundamentals, which we don't seem to be particularly good at. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Plus we have a smallish defense. Small, and it's become smaller this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 42 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I hope fans can truly appreciate how terrible our DT situation is right now. Phillips, Ford & Settle combined don't equal one qualified roster spot. Phillips tackling form is to bring the QB down via his face mask rather than even just falling on the guy. 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Small, and it's become smaller this year. Yep. We already play nickel as our base defense. DaQuan is hurt. Bernard is way smaller than the much maligned Edmunds, although Bernard’s instincts probably make up for the size difference. And now we have Poyer lining up as WLB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: Phillips tackling form is to bring the QB down via his face mask rather than even just falling on the guy. Yep. We already play nickel as our base defense. DaQuan is hurt. Bernard is way smaller than the much maligned Edmunds, although Bernard’s instincts probably make up for the size difference. And now we have Poyer lining up as WLB. Agreed. Look, you miss 100% of the tackles you don't get to. The Bills have a defense built on speed/pursuit. And those guys are smaller, and may have a harder time bringing down a big RB, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Antoine Winfield Sr. should come in and teach tackling lessons. The smallest guy on the team was always the best tackler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Chaos said: It seems like tackling is a lost art in the NFL overall. But Bill's fans perspective's may be skewed because we may be particularly bad at tackling. I am perfectly willing to blame injuries as the primary reason for the bad tackling, but it does not really change the fact that the tackling is bad. Top tackling teams. Feel free to hate PFF. I just don't anywhere else to source tackling data of any type. Dunno if the sort will hold, but the missed tackle stat is here, and yeah, the Bills are dead last https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/opp.htm#all_advanced_defense But I'm not sure what that means, since our DL is "leading the charge" for missed tackles https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2023_advanced.htm 24 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said: Antoine Winfield Sr. should come in and teach tackling lessons. The smallest guy on the team was always the best tackler Since it's our DL that's putting is in that "oops" territory, I somehow don't think a DB's tackling instructions would be too relevant And it has me asking "just what is being defined as a missed tackle?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 5 hours ago, colin said: its a structural issue in the d tho. guys guys and often dbs screaming down the pitch to fill in gaps and make tackles, it will always result in more misses. Wrong sport, mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Wrong sport, mate. u w0t m8? ill rek u m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetkings01 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Our eyes have shown us since McDermott took over that we suck at tackling. The stats back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 18 hours ago, colin said: its a structural issue in the d tho. guys guys and often dbs screaming down the pitch to fill in gaps and make tackles, it will always result in more misses. Would you mind elaborating? What schemes lead to easier or more likely tackles? And why wouldn't the Bills use those schemes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Jones Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 What, exactly, do the Bills do at practice sessions? Also, some people are saying that the Bills “have had 10 days to prepare for this game, so they should be ready.” How many of those 10 days are they “at work” vs out playing golf or sitting at home playing Xbox? Just wondering… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 40 minutes ago, finn said: Would you mind elaborating? What schemes lead to easier or more likely tackles? And why wouldn't the Bills use those schemes? well, you miss fewer tackles when guys don't have to run far and fast to get to the ball carrier. so the old new england 3-4 d with gargantuan linebackers and rough dirty safeties will miss fewer tackles. part of that is because they selected for and emphasized tackling more, part is because it's easier for a bigger guy to tackle provided they don't have to chase teh ball as much, and partly because in that kind of d, fewer guys have a shot at the ball, so you might miss 2 tackles and the ball goes 80s for a td, but in our d you can have 4 missed tackles on a 10 yard pitch and catch (where the 5th guy made it). sanfran has a very similar d to ours, albeit better, so you saw that if you watched them vs cincy. quick passes get completed in the soft parts of the zone (cinci is on fire right now) and then 4 guys rally to the ball and maybe 1 or 2 of them make the hit. we don't have the players nor the coaches to run a different kind of scheme, and they type (not exact) scheme we run is most popular right now to take away the big pass play, and to a lesser extend to stop qbs running as much (more zone than man). everybody plays nickel base in the nfl now tho. w our injuries mcd has to earn his paycheck and use some smoke and mirrors to fool the o. we have trouble vs teams like cinci when we are healthy on d, let alone w a mash unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 3 hours ago, colin said: u w0t m8? ill rek u m8 This is why the 2 sports you don't conflate.........m8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, colin said: well, you miss fewer tackles when guys don't have to run far and fast to get to the ball carrier. so the old new england 3-4 d with gargantuan linebackers and rough dirty safeties will miss fewer tackles. part of that is because they selected for and emphasized tackling more, part is because it's easier for a bigger guy to tackle provided they don't have to chase teh ball as much, and partly because in that kind of d, fewer guys have a shot at the ball, so you might miss 2 tackles and the ball goes 80s for a td, but in our d you can have 4 missed tackles on a 10 yard pitch and catch (where the 5th guy made it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 31 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: ya, that's a good point. our d doesn't miss a ton of tackles which has been documented for years now, and they don't rally like mad men to the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, colin said: ya, that's a good point. our d doesn't miss a ton of tackles which has been documented for years now, and they don't rally like mad men to the ball. The gif was for your explanation of why we miss tackles and trying to tie it to the scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonyBoy Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 18 hours ago, Bills!Win! said: Antoine Winfield Sr. should come in and teach tackling lessons. The smallest guy on the team was always the best tackler Was going to post the same thing. He was like Velcro. Reminds me of the infamous quote Buddy Ryan said about Chris Carter " All he does is catch touchdown passes" Antoine Winfield didn't really blow anybody up, he just made technically perfect tackles. Only 2 players ever bummed me out the Bills didn't find a way to retain. Antoine Winfield & Ted Washington. Killed me watching how good they were for years after leaving Bills. Honorable mention not drafting Vince Wilfork ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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