Does the 2023 Bills defence get a pass because McD is coaching it?

[Billsfan1972]

Yep not Frazier so many are happy.

 

Yes injuries too.

 

Yesterday they were not good, but get a pass.  Is this because of McD

 

40 mins top is on them.  But of course reading blame on the offence. They were not great the play calling was atrocious which seems to always be the case in close games but at the end of the day the defence was meh.....

Edited October 9, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Success]

I thought they were amazing yesterday.  They were on the field almost twice as long as the offense.

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep not Frazier so many are happy.

 

Yes injuries too.

 

Yesterday they were not good, but get a pass.

 

40 mins top is on them.  But of course reading blame on the offense. They were not great the play calling was atrocious which seems to always be the case in close games but at the end of the day the defense was meh.....

The defense gets a pass because they lost 5 starters and still played better than a perfectly healthy offense over the course of the game. 
 

If your rickety defense holds a team to 11 points through 3.5 Q’s and your offense can only muster 7 points and keeps going three and out, there’s one unit that deserves the lion share of the blame. 

[Warcodered]

Yesterday two of our best defensive players went down and that defense still kept the game within reach while the offense did practically nothing until there was 3 and a half minutes left. Yeah I think they get a pass.

[starrymessenger]

McD knows D.

[Billsfan1972]

How about they force a few 3 & outs?  Lawrence had 200 yards passing the first half.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

How about they force a few 3 & outs?  Lawrence had 200 yards passing the first half.

The jags also had 29 first downs and they average about 19

[Nephilim17]

Don't get the logic of a pass because of McD.

 

It gets a pass because it was missing 5 high-end starters and Miller played a pitch count after being out for a year.

[whorlnut]

What is up with the OP?  The defense was still VERY good yesterday even after Milano and Jones went down. The emergence of Oliver and Epenesa is going to help with those losses. Plus we will elevate ford. We should be fine on d.

[Royale with Cheese]

The game was 11-7 entering the 4th.

 

We didn't have Milano, Jones, Miller, Floyd, Rousseau and Lawson.

We had Vickers playing edge who is a back up DT on the PS.

AJ is on the sidelines gasping for air due to exhaustion.

Jonathan Kingsley went down twice.

Ed Oliver went down.

Taron Johnson went down.

We already were down Poyer, White and Benford.

 

The game was 11-7 entering the 4th.

[Brand J]

Defense played admirably. Got turnovers when we needed them, held JAX to 11 pts through 3 quarters with a patchwork unit. Untimely penalties and other 3rd down conversions hampered them, but they put up much more fight than the offense.
Look, the Bills are gonna go as far as the offense can carry them. This is and should be more an offensive team than a defensive one, we just need that unit to get stops from time to time (a la the Bengals and Chiefs units). To win the SB Allen and the offense will have to elevate their play. No Jets/Jags performances in the playoffs. 

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

The jags also had 29 first downs and they average about 19

shhhh!!!!  Can't say that.  

 

Cincy was down 3 OL vs. Bills in the playoffs yet overcame.

[BruceVilanch]

I thought the defense played incredibly well, the offense didn't hold up their end.

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

I thought they were amazing yesterday.  They were on the field almost twice as long as the offense.

 

That’s because they couldn’t get off the field all day long. O had their struggles as well but it was all around ***** play on both sides of the ball. D gave up 300 yards in the air and 185 on the ground. 

[gonzo1105]

No, this team doesn't get a pass not just the defense. The QB has been here 6 years, the HC 7, 2nd year of an offensive coordinator. This team has the talent to win a Superbowl. 

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How about they force a few 3 & outs?  Lawrence had 200 yards passing the first half.

He had 11 pts that's all that mattered, Hell Josh had more passing yards than him at the end of the day, does it matter ***** no convert it to points.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Warcodered

[Freddie's Dead]

Defense was not why we lost yesterday.  Offense squandered all the mo by not double dipping at the start of the 2nd half.  Multiple catches for FDs dropped. Josh under throwing Stef twice took 2 tuddys off the board. The only player that showed up besides Stef and Josh was AJ Epenesa. D had 2 turnovers. On the field for 40 mins. Not the Ds fault. 

[RyanC883]

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep not Frazier so many are happy.

 

Yes injuries too.

 

Yesterday they were not good, but get a pass.  Is this because of McD

 

40 mins top is on them.  But of course reading blame on the offence. They were not great the play calling was atrocious which seems to always be the case in close games but at the end of the day the defence was meh.....

 

2 takeaways from the Jags when they were in the red zone.  5 sacks despite injuries.  The offense was a MAJOR issue.  (I'd still like a CB...Surtain II). 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

2 takeaways from the Jags when they were in the red zone.  5 sacks despite injuries.  The offense was a MAJOR issue.  (I'd still like a CB...Surtain II). 

How did they get into the red zone?  The D let them there.  40 minutes time of possession is all you need to know. Always excuses and sorry A lot of it has to do because McDermott is the coach on that side of the ball now.

[GoBills808]

Just now, BananaB said:

That’s because they couldn’t get off the field all day long. O had their struggles as well but it was all around ***** play on both sides of the ball. D gave up 300 yards in the air and 185 on the ground. 

this, neither side played well

 

but to the point of the OP we have people who will point to 11 points (through 3.5 quarters lol) is indicative of a good performance (never mind Jags rushing for 200 or going 10/18 on third down) and then immediately argue in another thread that giving up 30+ to Skylar Thompson isn't indicative of a bad performance, so basically the offense must be the default unit of blame

[SCBills]

The Defense has been borderline elite for 5 games. 

 

Yesterday they held the Jags to 11 points for much of the game, despite coming into the game without a starting CB and starting EDGE, losing their other starting CB the week before and losing their starting DT and LB a few plays in.  

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Defense was not why we lost yesterday.  Offense squandered all the mo by not double dipping at the start of the 2nd half.  Multiple catches for FDs dropped. Josh under throwing Stef twice took 2 tuddys off the board. The only player that showed up besides Stef and Josh was AJ Epenesa. D had 2 turnovers. On the field for 40 mins. Not the Ds fault. 

Whose fault is it the defense was on for 40 minutes?

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How did they get into the red zone?  The D let them there.  40 minutes time of possession is all you need to know. Always excuses and sorry A lot of it has to do because McDermott is the coach on that side of the ball now.

 

conveniently ignoring the 5 sacks.  And missing top 2 CBs.  Are you thinking Frazier would have done better?!?!?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

this, neither side played well

 

but to the point of the OP we have people who will point to 11 points (through 3.5 quarters lol) is indicative of a good performance (never mind Jags rushing for 200 or going 10/18 on third down) and then immediately argue in another thread that giving up 30+ to Skylar Thompson isn't indicative of a bad performance, so basically the offense must be the default unit of blame

Then you have people who watch the games and remember that Josh kept giving the ball to Skylar Thompson’s team that afternoon. 
 

If you were honest with yourself, you know you blame the offense more than the defense for yesterday’s performance, but you just have to quibble lol

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

conveniently ignoring the 5 sacks.  And missing top 2 CBs.  Are you thinking Frazier would have done better?!?!?

10-18 on third downs, many long conversions is perfectly fine.  What good is a sack, if it is followed by a conversion?  Love the excuses.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

10-18 on third downs, many long conversions is perfectly fine.  What good is a sack, if it is followed by a conversion?  Love the excuses.

 

you realize TOP was stacked against them also from OUR 3 and outs.  But I agree the 3rd down conversions were maddening.  But quick question, I don't know the answer to: how many of them were aided by terrible officiating calls?  

[uninja]

8 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Defense was not why we lost yesterday.  Offense squandered all the mo by not double dipping at the start of the 2nd half.  Multiple catches for FDs dropped. Josh under throwing Stef twice took 2 tuddys off the board. The only player that showed up besides Stef and Josh was AJ Epenesa. D had 2 turnovers. On the field for 40 mins. Not the Ds fault. 

 

Couldn't run for ***** yesterday either, leading rusher was JA with 14 yards?! Is the Jags run defense that good?

 

Also I don't have the numbers but it seemed like every single snap was from shotgun and we ran almost no PA from center.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Whose fault is it the defense was on for 40 minutes?

When your offense can't get a 1st down until there's less than 5 minutes in the 2nd half they might be the problem.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Then you have people who watch the games and remember that Josh kept giving the ball to Skylar Thompson’s team that afternoon. 
 

If you were honest with yourself, you know you blame the offense more than the defense for yesterday’s performance, but you just have to quibble lol

I probably would blame the offense a little more for yesterday, but that doesn't erase the point

 

If there are valid excuses for a defensive performance that allows 31 points (and there are) there are valid criticisms of a defensive performance that allows 25 (or 11 through 3.5 quarters whichever you prefer😂😂)

[Dablitzkrieg]

26 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep not Frazier so many are happy.

 

Yes injuries too.

 

Yesterday they were not good, but get a pass.  Is this because of McD

 

40 mins top is on them.  But of course reading blame on the offence. They were not great the play calling was atrocious which seems to always be the case in close games but at the end of the day the defence was meh.....

I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for another one of your threads.   Always so insightful.  🤥

Edited October 9, 2023 by Dablitzkrieg

[boyst]

the biggest issue i have is his gameplan and scheme sucked. completely sucked. even before being down players the defense didn't show potential to stop lawrence.

 

then we kept making the mistake of rushing the passer instead of dropping for coverage.

 

no. he doesn't get a pass and should have been fired after 13 seconds.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I can't yello you how long I've been waiting for another one of your threads.   Always so insightful.  🤥

Glad you were looking forward to it.

 

Review the play by play and how many third and longs Jax converted ( many inside their 10 yard line).  One play flips the field.

.

Sorry I'm not a yes man here on The Stadium Wall

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I probably would blame the offense a little more for yesterday, but that doesn't erase the point

 

If there are valid excuses for a defensive performance that allows 31 points (and there are) there are valid criticisms of a defensive performance that allows 25 (or 11 through 3.5 quarters whichever you prefer😂😂)

It does a little bit lol. You agree with the premise.

 

we lost our best defensive player and 5 starters in totality. What is the normal expectation for a defense under those circumstances compared to a healthy offense with a top 2 QB and a top 5 WR?

 

If we lost Diggs and 4 offensive starters in totality as well, I’d call it a wash. But we didn’t. Those were our healthy boys having Bengals game flashbacks.

 

The game would’ve been over in the third quarter if AJ Epenesa didn’t start channeling the spirit of LT.

 

When you have a top flight QB and a top flight WR, the expectation is that they deliver. And that goes for the guys coaching them. They can’t play possum until there’s 7 minutes left. 

[ngbills]

I really dont want to blame the D for that game. But to be fair they gave up almost 500 yards. This is close to the most yards they have given up in the entire McD era in a regular season non-OT game. Still they did enough to win if the O held up its part of the bargain. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by ngbills

[boyst]

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The defense gets a pass because they lost 5 starters and still played better than a perfectly healthy offense over the course of the game. 
 

If your rickety defense holds a team to 11 points through 3.5 Q’s and your offense can only muster 7 points and keeps going three and out, there’s one unit that deserves the lion share of the blame. 

 

25 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yesterday two of our best defensive players went down and that defense still kept the game within reach while the offense did practically nothing until there was 3 and a half minutes left. Yeah I think they get a pass.

-----------------------

20 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Defense played admirably. Got turnovers when we needed them, held JAX to 11 pts through 3 quarters with a patchwork unit. Untimely penalties and other 3rd down conversions hampered them, but they put up much more fight than the offense.
Look, the Bills are gonna go as far as the offense can carry them. This is and should be more an offensive team than a defensive one, we just need that unit to get stops from time to time (a la the Bengals and Chiefs units). To win the SB Allen and the offense will have to elevate their play. No Jets/Jags performances in the playoffs. 

 

16 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Defense was not why we lost yesterday.  Offense squandered all the mo by not double dipping at the start of the 2nd half.  Multiple catches for FDs dropped. Josh under throwing Stef twice took 2 tuddys off the board. The only player that showed up besides Stef and Josh was AJ Epenesa. D had 2 turnovers. On the field for 40 mins. Not the Ds fault. 

 

6 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

Couldn't run for ***** yesterday either, leading rusher was JA with 14 yards?! Is the Jags run defense that good?

 

Also I don't have the numbers but it seemed like every single snap was from shotgun and we ran almost no PA from center.

 

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

When your offense can't get a 1st down until there's less than 5 minutes in the 2nd half they might be the problem.

all of you need to make an argument and statements about the defense without mentioning the offense. everyone keeps playing the game... "yeah but the offense..." and it needs to be a nonstarter of the conversation. the defense had a lot of problems in play, execution, schemes, and coaching.

 

i can leverage some argument on injury but this staff wasn't prepared for that when they must be considering we have some old ass players.

 

so please, try again to address the topic of mcdermotts defense without a red herring or obfuscating the offensive liability.

[Freddie's Dead]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Whose fault is it the defense was on for 40 minutes?

 

The offense had too many 3 and outs for the defense to sustain.  As others pointed out, it was 11-7 at the start of the 4th QTR.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How did they get into the red zone?  The D let them there.  40 minutes time of possession is all you need to know. Always excuses and sorry A lot of it has to do because McDermott is the coach on that side of the ball now.

Didn’t the offense three and out on it’s first three drives? The TOP would not be so bad if the offense could’ve move the ball in the first half.

 

as others have mentioned, the offense was perfectly healthy as well. Zero excuses for their lackluster performance in the first 3 quarters.

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, boyst said:

 

-----------------------

 

 

 

all of you need to make an argument and statements about the defense without mentioning the offense. everyone keeps playing the game... "yeah but the offense..." and it needs to be a nonstarter of the conversation. the defense had a lot of problems in play, execution, schemes, and coaching.

 

i can leverage some argument on injury but this staff wasn't prepared for that when they must be considering we have some old ass players.

 

so please, try again to address the topic of mcdermotts defense without a red herring or obfuscating the offensive liability.

 

They came up with two turnovers and were down to third-string players.

[billsfan89]

The defense played well enough to win against the Jags but the offense's inability to sustain drives and some bad penalties kept the defense on the field longer than any defense could/should and it wore them down. Also, the limited bodies really hurt some positions as well. Overall, the loss to the Jags was on the offense. The defense held the Jags to 11 points until the 4th quarter. The Bills at the very least should have been able to score 14 in the first three quarters but that wasn't the case. 

[Royale with Cheese]

23 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

shhhh!!!!  Can't say that.  

 

Cincy was down 3 OL vs. Bills in the playoffs yet overcame.

 

What was the reason why the Bucs beat the Chiefs in the Super Bowl?