Terrel Bernard named AFC Defensive Player of the Week

[Doc]

Bernard was drafted way too high and is way too old.

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

Do you think those differences lend credence to why Bernard has made more impact plays? Or is it the players themselves?

Partly, yes. They are two completely different players. For as athletic as everyone touts Edmunds to be - he wasn't very twitchy and couldn't play man coverage. He was big and fast running in a straight line and they used him that way. He was essentially a MoF Safety when we played 2 and played everything underneath top/down. Bernard is more in line with Milano as far as twitch and bend - being able to get around blocks without having to engage and still being able to re-stack the gap - and being able to play man coverage or man principles in zone match coverages. Its comparing apples to oranges really.

[PonyBoy]

48 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

For comparison:

 

Bernard first 3 games: 2 INTs, 2 Sacks, 1 FR

 

Edmunds last 45 games: 3 INTS, 2 Sacks, 0 FR

 

Oops!!! Hit wrong emoji, it scrolled when I went to hit awesome. My bad 😔

[Punching Bag]

8 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I mean they are being used differently. We played a way more 2 under Frazier where Edmunds was a true zone Tampa 2 dropper. This year under McDermott we're primarily playing 1 and 3 with a little 6 rolled in and we're pattern matching more than we ever have in the past (playing more man principles out of our zone coverages).

 

This is what surprises me - Bills are playing more man principles but the Elam still not getting more snaps.  I guess they are mixing man with zone and trading off with this concept hard for him to get ingrained into his instincts.  That and his habit of not keeping his hands to himself.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, PonyBoy said:

Oops!!! Hit wrong emoji, it scrolled when I went to hit awesome. My bad 😔

 

haha, bud, you can change it. just go reclick on it.

[Punching Bag]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

haha, bud, you can change it. just go reclick on it.

 

Sometimes I do that deliberately to tell someone their post is both hilarious and awesome.

[Chandler#81]

Well deserved! Congratulations Terrel!

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Partly, yes. They are two completely different players. For as athletic as everyone touts Edmunds to be - he wasn't very twitchy and couldn't play man coverage. He was big and fast running in a straight line and they used him that way. He was essentially a MoF Safety when we played 2 and played everything underneath top/down. Bernard is more in line with Milano as far as twitch and bend - being able to get around blocks without having to engage and still being able to re-stack the gap - and being able to play man coverage or man principles in zone match coverages. Its comparing apples to oranges really.

All great points. I just can’t get on board with the sentiment that Bernard has these stats and Edmunds didn’t simply because Edmunds wasn’t being used in the same way Bernard is being used. That would imply Edmunds was misused and that the Bills defensive scheme was at fault for his lack of big time plays, not the player himself. How many times have we said “almost” about a play Tremaine could have made but didn’t? 

[PonyBoy]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

haha, bud, you can change it. just go reclick on it.

 

Done! Thank you!

I tried, but couldn't figure it out. I've never miss hit a vote. Broke my cherry 🍒😃

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

This is what surprises me - Bills are playing more man principles but the Elam still not getting more snaps.  I guess they are mixing man with zone and trading off with this concept hard for him to get ingrained into his instincts.  That and his habit of not keeping his hands to himself.

Elam is a boundary corner who doesn't play special teams - our current boundary corner? Tre White. I think it's more a numbers deal than anything else at this point.

[Special K]

Most draft experts, and most on this board(myself included) thought he projected as a 5th round pick and that the Bills drafted him too high.

 

Obviously, the Bills saw something in him, and took him in the third to make sure they got him.

 

They are looking pretty smart right now.

[Chandler#81]

43 minutes ago, GustheDog33 said:

Peter King in his column had Myles Garrett as his defensive standout and didn't even mention the Bills in general or Bernard Specifically.  Obviously, not a fan of the Bills, but he didn't even mention the game Bernard or the Bills D in general.

I’ve always enjoyed PK, but he’s outlived his usefulness. He’s now a senile old goat..

Edited September 27, 2023 by Chandler#81

[HoofHearted]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

All great points. I just can’t get on board with the sentiment that Bernard has these stats and Edmunds didn’t simply because Edmunds wasn’t being used in the same way Bernard is being used. That would imply Edmunds was misused and that the Bills defensive scheme was at fault for his lack of big time plays, not the player himself. How many times have we said “almost” about a play Tremaine could have made but didn’t? 

I don't think it implies Edmunds was misused. The two players are not the same. They each have different skill sets. Neither would have much success in the others roles because they lack the ability to be great at that specific scheme. If anything I think it speaks volumes of our defensive scheme and coaching staff to recognize what their players can and can't do well and put them in positions to be successful.

[MJS]

28 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

One thing about mcd and Beane, they are very good at taking later round defensive players and turning them into solid or very good contributors (all pro in Milanos case).

 

I say from now on draft offense rounds 1-4 and defense after 

He was a 3rd round draft pick...

[BuffaloBillyG]

Well deserved. Now, can the guy get a haircut? His style is too close to the Mahomes cut.

[JerseyBills]

Wow. So well deserved. 3rd start!! And he missed the latter half of TC. 

His instincts are incredible,  night and day from Edmunds, who would hesitate a bit , Burn yard is decisive and explosive,  trusts what he sees and attacks. 

Phenomenal job by the staff coaching him up. I knew after Kyle Brandt had that epic speech announcing his pick that he'd be a stud. 

We might have 2 All Pro LBs

[Cray51]

His communication looks to be a vast improvement to Edmunds.  He makes Milano and Taron play in sync with him.   That allows Bernard to attack more, and we are seeing the benefits.  Edmunds was always a bit of a reactionary player, and even in listening to mic'd up sessions with him, I never heard him communicate.  A quiet leader, which I dont think allowed the defense to play to the absolute best of their abilities.

[ngbills]

7 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I don't think it implies Edmunds was misused. The two players are not the same. They each have different skill sets. Neither would have much success in the others roles because they lack the ability to be great at that specific scheme. If anything I think it speaks volumes of our defensive scheme and coaching staff to recognize what their players can and can't do well and put them in positions to be successful.

 

12 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

All great points. I just can’t get on board with the sentiment that Bernard has these stats and Edmunds didn’t simply because Edmunds wasn’t being used in the same way Bernard is being used. That would imply Edmunds was misused and that the Bills defensive scheme was at fault for his lack of big time plays, not the player himself. How many times have we said “almost” about a play Tremaine could have made but didn’t? 

The Bills had pretty much a top 5 defense during Edmunds tenure. So its hard to say he was misused, just differently. Why would the Bills feel the need to change that if it was working? Now with a change to Bernard they are adjusting to what will make the D most successful, which has been much more blitzing Bernard and putting Bernard in better position for these types of plays. 

 

Also people have such short term memories. Last season first three games vs this season were much tougher yet the D possibly played even better...just look at the QB's last year vs this year. 

 

2022

LAR - 10 points and 240 yards with 7 sacks and 3 turnovers to Stafford

TEN - 7 points and 187 yards with 2 sacks and 4 turnovers to Tannehill 

MIA - 21 points and 212 yards with 2 sacks and 0 turnovers to Tua

 

2023

NYJ - 22 points and 289 yards with 3 sacks and 1 turnover to Zach Wilson

LAV - 10 points and 240 yards with 0 sacks and 3 turnovers to Jimmy G

WAS - 3 points and 230 yards with 9 sacks and 5 turnovers to Sam Howell

[ddaryl]

He's too small for a MLB [/sarcasm]

 

 

Hopefully this is just a small sample of what he can do week in and week out

Edited September 27, 2023 by ddaryl

[Einstein]

This is really impressive work by Bernard. Miami called out Milano as the MLB and Bernard instantly recognized the play and direction.
 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Einstein

[DeltaDigital]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

Whats funny is that I see Bills fans, not here but elsewhere, saying Bernard plays in a different defense than Tremaine. Saying Edmunds should’ve been used the way Bernard is used. And people wonder why the Edmunds threads won’t die, it’s constant conversation. 

Do you point out that it's the same defense, and that Edmunds just wasn't very good? 

[starrymessenger]

31 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

All great points. I just can’t get on board with the sentiment that Bernard has these stats and Edmunds didn’t simply because Edmunds wasn’t being used in the same way Bernard is being used. That would imply Edmunds was misused and that the Bills defensive scheme was at fault for his lack of big time plays, not the player himself. How many times have we said “almost” about a play Tremaine could have made but didn’t? 

I agree. Just for example was Tremaine not asked to blitz because they always wanted him in coverage or because he just wasn't very good at it? TB seems to have the skill set to do that. McD is not a blitz happy defensive coach but he can be effective calling them selectively. 

[ngbills]

Just now, DeltaDigital said:

Do you point out that it's the same defense, and that Edmunds just wasn't very good? 

No I tell them to watch a game or two from last year and compare to this year so they can see how obviously they are used differently. 

[DeltaDigital]

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

No I tell them to watch a game or two from last year and compare to this year so they can see how obviously they are used differently. 

So, you're saying the teachable moment came and went? You'll get 'em next time. 1 of these players CAN and one of them, CANT. Edmunds was trash despite his freakish size. That much is evident. McDermott has two milano's now. That makes McClappinstuff very happy, I'd imagine. 

6 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree. Just for example was Tremaine not asked to blitz because they always wanted him in coverage or because he just wasn't very good at it? TB seems to have the skill set to do that. McD is not a blitz happy defensive coach but he can be effective calling them selectively. 

He was asked to blitz plenty. All I / We ever saw was edmunds washed by some middling guard, or taking the wrong hole and yes, you guessed it, got washed out for no impact. Good QB's recognized it, and heyyyy what do you know a giant hole over the middle formed. They stopped asking Edmunds to blitz because he can't do it. Watch Cover 1 on bernard and how he selects the proper holes to hit.... The difference in Edmunds game vs Bernards game is like watching a toddler try to race a varsity athlete. Poor ol tremaine, never had it between the ears where it counts, and he never will. 

[Chaos]

The Bills played great. Mr. Benard deserves the applause.   I also think the entire Bills defense likely created the beginning of the end in the "Sam Howell is a franchise" QB narrative. 

[TheFunPolice]

First Homecoming King on Sunday, now AFC DPW!

 

Congrats to Bernard, and well deserved! 

[Don Otreply]

56 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Do you think those differences lend credence to why Bernard has made more impact plays? Or is it the players themselves?

It is likely what the current DC is doing with the pieces on the board so to speak, certainly Frazier had the opportunity and could have been doing what McDermott is doing, it’s part of what changed after Frazier was let go. 

[Brand J]

7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It is likely what the current DC is doing with the pieces on the board so to speak, certainly Frazier had the opportunity and could have been doing what McDermott is doing, it’s part of what changed after Frazier was let go. 

But you also have to give credit to the player for making the plays when they’re available. We know about Edmunds and his near INTs, but I wanted to touch on his blitzing since it was mentioned above. I had never seen a guy with his size and speed get stoned with a full head of steam by a RB. Happened last year against the Patriots, I could go dig up the play if you don’t remember. He didn’t have the same aggression and pursuit in his blitzes that TB43 seems to play with. It was almost as though Edmunds was content to get blocked rather than fight through to make the sack. Simply explaining away that TB43 makes plays and Edmunds didn’t is all because of how they’re being used, no, it’s mainly because the player is taking advantage when he’s put in a position to succeed. 

[HoofHearted]

27 minutes ago, Einstein said:

This is really impressive work by Bernard. Miami called out Milano as the MLB and Bernard instantly recognized the play.
 

 

Has nothing to do with them calling out Milano as the Mike and everything to do with the motion and recognizing where the bubble is. Still impressive - shows he's locked in on film study and tendencies based on formations.

29 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree. Just for example was Tremaine not asked to blitz because they always wanted him in coverage or because he just wasn't very good at it? TB seems to have the skill set to do that. McD is not a blitz happy defensive coach but he can be effective calling them selectively. 

Tremaine wasn't good at it. The vast majority of times Edmunds blitzed was because we were in man coverage and the back stayed in the protection which adds him into the rush. Additionally, it forces his rush path to be through the back (to protect vs screens) which made it look like he was just running into blockers to people who didn't understand the situation.

[Gunsgoodtime]

I knew it when we drafted him.........

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

I don't think it implies Edmunds was misused. The two players are not the same. They each have different skill sets. Neither would have much success in the others roles because they lack the ability to be great at that specific scheme. If anything I think it speaks volumes of our defensive scheme and coaching staff to recognize what their players can and can't do well and put them in positions to be successful.

 

Did you ever once think that Edmunds was the best player on the field for either team?  I know I never did even when he played well.  I had that feeling with Bernard last week and I don't think 2nd place was particularly close.

[HoofHearted]

7 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Has nothing to do with them calling out Milano as the Mike and everything to do with the motion and recognizing where the bubble is. Still impressive - shows he's locked in on film study and tendencies based on formations.

Tremaine wasn't good at it. The vast majority of times Edmunds blitzed was because we were in man coverage and the back stayed in the protection which adds him into the rush. Additionally, it forces his rush path to be through the back (to protect vs screens) which made it look like he was just running into blockers to people who didn't understand the situation.

@JayBaller10 read this regarding Edmunds taking on backs in his blitz path.

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It is likely what the current DC is doing with the pieces on the board so to speak, certainly Frazier had the opportunity and could have been doing what McDermott is doing, it’s part of what changed after Frazier was let go. 

 

5 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

But you also have to give credit to the player for making the plays when they’re available. We know about Edmunds and his near INTs, but I wanted to touch on his blitzing since it was mentioned above. I had never seen a guy with his size and speed get stoned with a full head of steam by a RB. Happened last year against the Patriots, I could go dig up the play if you don’t remember. He didn’t have the same aggression and pursuit in his blitzes that TB43 seems to play with. It was almost as though Edmunds was content to get blocked rather than fight through to make the sack. Simply explaining away that TB43 makes plays and Edmunds didn’t is all because of how they’re being used, no, it’s mainly because the player is taking advantage when he’s put in a position to succeed. 

 

I'm really curious if Frazier ever ran Edmunds in a blitz like the one linked below. 8:19 into the video if it doesnt link to the time right.

 

It's a great setup that has our DL and Milano fit up and take up all the guys, and Bernard comes knifing through like a shark.

 

Not sure if we ran different types of more straight ahead blitzing previously, or if Edmunds was just too big and lumbering to pull something like this off.

 

 

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

@JayBaller10 read this regarding Edmunds taking on backs in his blitz path.

That’s fair, but with a guy his size and speed you would expect/hope he’d toss that smaller player aside and at least affect the QB. I’ve seen numerous LBs go head up with a RB and the RB gets bowled over. I had never seen one sprinting to the LoS just to get stoned by a RB and then “that’s it.” No fight or hustle through the block, just acceptance that the back was there. It was wild to me.

[Don Otreply]

13 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

But you also have to give credit to the player for making the plays when they’re available. We know about Edmunds and his near INTs, but I wanted to touch on his blitzing since it was mentioned above. I had never seen a guy with his size and speed get stoned with a full head of steam by a RB. Happened last year against the Patriots, I could go dig up the play if you don’t remember. He didn’t have the same aggression and pursuit in his blitzes that TB43 seems to play with. It was almost as though Edmunds was content to get blocked rather than fight through to make the sack. Simply explaining away that TB43 makes plays and Edmunds didn’t is all because of how they’re being used, no, it’s mainly because the player is taking advantage when he’s put in a position to succeed. 

I absolutely think TB is using his skills and capitalizing on this opportunity, he just seems to have the knack for being where he is supposed to be, 👍

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Did you ever once think that Edmunds was the best player on the field for either team?  I know I never did even when he played well.  I had that feeling with Bernard last week and I don't think 2nd place was particularly close.

Again it's like comparing apples to oranges. Edmunds did a lot of really good things vs the run that go unnoticed. Basically every big run was blamed on him by people who don't know what they're looking at. As far as pass game is concerned, he was never asked to be as active as Bernard is being asked to be because it wasn't his skill set, but his impact in coverage was definitely felt. It just didn't put him in positions to make those impact plays as often.

 

Tremaine wasn't a dud like many here think he was, but certainly isn't worth the contract he got.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Whats funny is that I see Bills fans, not here but elsewhere, saying Bernard plays in a different defense than Tremaine. Saying Edmunds should’ve been used the way Bernard is used. And people wonder why the Edmunds threads won’t die, it’s constant conversation. 

Simple… the team has exchanged size and bulk for instincts and football IQ.

 

it still seems like it’s a potential matchup liability fielding 3 safety sized guys at the second level, but so far it’s working. 

[Einstein]

19 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Has nothing to do with them calling out Milano as the Mike and everything to do with the motion and recognizing where the bubble is. 

 

I disagree. The Commanders motioned into Shotgun split on multiple plays. Bernard was able to recognize this particular direction due to Milano being the Mike.
 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Einstein

[H2o]

1 hour ago, GustheDog33 said:

Peter King in his column had Myles Garrett as his defensive standout and didn't even mention the Bills in general or Bernard Specifically.  Obviously, not a fan of the Bills, but he didn't even mention the game Bernard or the Bills D in general.

He's still salty from when Josh left him hanging. 

 

[Brand J]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Simple… the team has exchanged size and bulk for instincts and football IQ.

 

it still seems like it’s a potential matchup liability fielding 3 safety sized guys at the second level, but so far it’s working. 

We’re getting gashed in the run game a bit, but I think if it was an opposing team’s primary way to move the ball we could shut it down. I don’t see any repeats of what happened versus the Jets last year where we knew the run was coming and couldn’t stop it. The Jets got most of their yardage on one play, 2 if you include the 26 yarder. The Commies got most of their rushing yards after they were trailing big and our defense was concerned with the pass (a la Green Bay last year). Miami presents the first true multi-dimensional team we’ve faced this year. Should be fun.