Chiefs vs Lions NFL Opener

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is true, but it's also one of the interesting thing about the NFL schedule.   Even though we won't know until December to know who these teams really are, the L on the Chiefs schedule counts just as much as a December L.  

 

Pretty much everyone in the AFC has what looks like a tough schedule.   Over time, of course, some of those teams will turn out to be easier outs than we think today, but most teams are simply going to have a tough schedule.  Getting Ws rather than Ls is going to be difficult every week.  Starting with an L is significant, especially a non-conference L.   KC's AFC gauntlet hasn't started yet, and they're 0-1.  

Agreed.  Detroit looks to me like a middle-tier NFC team...certainly the sort of team any KC fan would have chalked up as a home W before the season started.  Their margin for error just got a little narrower...  

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Wow, are people in here really blaming Mahomes and claiming the Chiefs have issues after 1 game?  1 freaking game?  The first game of the season none the less.  My lord.

I'm not saying either, but there's nothing wrong with people who have this opinion. 

 

Russell Wilson lost a similar one point game to open the last season, and it have been completely correct for someone to have blamed Wilson and said the Broncos have issues.   The reality of the league is that almost every season there is a team that most people consider to be a lock to make the playoffs and don't, like the Rams last season.   It happens, and a few people can actually see it coming.  

[Warcodered]

10 minutes ago, WEATHER DOT COM said:

 

This chance, plus the opportunity cost of the Lions going 3 and out and needing to settle for a long FG (which if missed would give the Chiefs phenomenal field position down 1 point) is why I'd be happy if McDermott/Dorsey coached the same way in this situation.

 

The Chiefs would have needed to stop the Lions in 3 plays regardless of where the ball was on the field. So let's play it out assuming the Chiefs make the 3 and out happen (which they don't anyway because their front 7 is atrocious) 

 

Option 1: Go for it on 4th and 25 and don't make it. Lions go 3 and out and then attempt to kick a ~45-50 yard FG to go up 4 points with the caveat a miss would give you great field position down 1 point. Lions kick the FG and make it, Mahomes needs to drive ~75 yards for a TD with 1:30 left. Pretty doable as we have seen.

 

Option 2: Punt the ball to the Lions instead of going for it. Lions go 3 and out and then punt. Chiefs have the ball on their 10-20 yard line with ~1:20 left down 1 point. Also pretty doable.

 

Either way, if your defense does what it is supposed to, your hall-of-fame QB has a chance to win you the game.

 

In the situation the Chiefs were in with the QB they have, I don't think I would fault them either way. The game was lost due to execution of the Chiefs receivers (throughout the game, not just on this drive).

The Chiefs turned the ball over on their own 30 so even in the unlikely scenario that they manage to keep the Lions from gaining any yards at all it's at best a 45 yard FG for the Lions. Also Why would the Chiefs get the ball back on their own 10-20 yard line if they punt, their punter had been killing it all game and if they 3 and out the Lions they're not likely to flip the field like they hadn't been all game. I have no idea why the idea of going for it on 4th and 25 and making it very likely you're down by 4 with no time outs and under 2 minutes left when you haven't scored a touchdown the entire 2nd half makes more sense than punting it and making a stop which your defense had been doing most of the day.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

The Chiefs turned the ball over on their own 30 so even in the unlikely scenario that they manage to keep the Lions from gaining any yards at all it's at best a 45 yard FG for the Lions. Also Why would the Chiefs get the ball back on their own 10-20 yard line if they punt, their punter had been killing it all game and if they 3 and out the Lions they're not likely to flip the field like they hadn't been all game. I have no idea why the idea of going for it on 4th and 25 and making it very likely you're down by 4 with no time outs and under 2 minutes left when you haven't scored a touchdown the entire 2nd half makes more sense than punting it and making a stop which your defense had been doing most of the day.

 

Agree to disagree. I have no issue going for it in that situation. 

[K-9]

 

If ever an INT pick 6 was not the fault of the QB, this is it. Right thru the hands. 

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Had a chance does not equal had a good chance.

 

If he got the depth he was supposed to get it comes pretty much straight to him. Him being 2 yards behind his teammate is a pretty good sign he was in the wrong place. Which was him most of the night. 

[LABILLBACKER]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Agreed.  Detroit looks to me like a middle-tier NFC team...certainly the sort of team any KC fan would have chalked up as a home W before the season started.  Their margin for error just got a little narrower...  

Honestly I was not overly impressed with Goff or Ben Johnson last night. Yes they hung on to beat the defending Champs but the play calling was a little odd. Mahomes was a little off last night which just goes to show how valuable Kelce is to that offense.  When he hangs them up in a couple years, Patrick will have issues. 

[Mark80]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm not saying either, but there's nothing wrong with people who have this opinion. 

 

Russell Wilson lost a similar one point game to open the last season, and it have been completely correct for someone to have blamed Wilson and said the Broncos have issues.   The reality of the league is that almost every season there is a team that most people consider to be a lock to make the playoffs and don't, like the Rams last season.   It happens, and a few people can actually see it coming.  

Russel Wilson is not Patrick Mahomes.  Nathaniel Hackett is not Andy Reid.  This analogy just doesn't hit the mark for me.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Mark80

[mannc]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Honestly I was not overly impressed with Goff or Ben Johnson last night. Yes they hung on to beat the defending Champs but the play calling was a little odd. 

Agreed.  The Lions are a dink and dunk offense that is not going to scare anyone.  They remind me of last year's Chargers.  They need to get Jamison Williams back and figure out a way to use Gibbs in the passing game or they are going nowhere. 

[Shaw66]

41 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Russel Wilson is not Patrick Mahomes.  Nathaniel Hackett is not Andy Reid.  This analogy just doesn't hit the mark for me.

Sean McVay and Matthew Stafford?  You can be sure there were plenty of people saying it's only one game when the Bills beat them to open the season.  They were wrong; it was an indication of how good the Rams actually were.  

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Sean McVay and Matthew Stafford?  You can be sure there were plenty of people saying it's only one game when the Bills beat them to open the season.  They were wrong; it was an indication of how good the Rams actually were.  

 

It wasn't. Losing their QB, their WR1, their LT, their LG, their RG, their WR2, their FS, their MLB by week 6..... 

 

That was an indication of how good the Rams were.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

Wow, are people in here really blaming Mahomes and claiming the Chiefs have issues after 1 game?  1 freaking game?  The first game of the season none the less.  My lord.  Tell me he has lost something or the Chiefs aren't a threat after October.  Whoever is saying this is going to look like a fool.

 

Probably same folks saying Brady was done after we beat him 31-0 in the 2003 opener.

I agree.  I thought Mahomes was a bit off but overall the loss was on his receivers who dropped to many balls.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

In the game I watched last night, Goff made a ton of incredibly accurate throws. Without a doubt, he was the best, most accurate passer in that game.

 

I guess maybe you're saying that he's usually worse than that, and last night was a fluke? You tell me, because I usually only watch Bills games nowadays, so I have rarely seen Goff play.

 

He doesn't do so well when he's in 3rd and longs, playing from behind, or under pressure.  They ran a ton of screens and play action to keep the defense honest for their run game.  If you play your guys tight, we'll throw wide.  If you play your linebackers close to the LOS, we'll attack that vacated space with play action.  Then run into the favorable looks you inevitably get.  

 

There isn't a ton of escapability or improvisation, arm strength is adequate but he's not going to undress you with tight window throws.  

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Honestly I was not overly impressed with Goff or Ben Johnson last night. Yes they hung on to beat the defending Champs but the play calling was a little odd. Mahomes was a little off last night which just goes to show how valuable Kelce is to that offense.  When he hangs them up in a couple years, Patrick will have issues. 

 

I mean... 99x out of 100 14 points is not going to get it done.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, WEATHER DOT COM said:

 

This chance, plus the opportunity cost of the Lions going 3 and out and needing to settle for a long FG (which if missed would give the Chiefs phenomenal field position down 1 point) is why I'd be happy if McDermott/Dorsey coached the same way in this situation.

 

The Chiefs would have needed to stop the Lions in 3 plays regardless of where the ball was on the field. So let's play it out assuming the Chiefs make the 3 and out happen (which they don't anyway because their front 7 is atrocious) 

 

Option 1: Go for it on 4th and 25 and don't make it. Lions go 3 and out and then attempt to kick a ~45-50 yard FG to go up 4 points with the caveat a miss would give you great field position down 1 point. Lions kick the FG and make it, Mahomes needs to drive ~75 yards for a TD with 1:30 left. Pretty doable as we have seen.

 

Option 2: Punt the ball to the Lions instead of going for it. Lions go 3 and out and then punt. Chiefs have the ball on their 10-20 yard line with ~1:20 left down 1 point. Also pretty doable.

 

Either way, if your defense does what it is supposed to, your hall-of-fame QB has a chance to win you the game.

 

In the situation the Chiefs were in with the QB they have, I don't think I would fault them either way. The game was lost due to execution of the Chiefs receivers (throughout the game, not just on this drive).

 

I'd punt - its a 1 point game.  Your goal should be a FG attempt anywhere from 40-60 yards.  

[Franco_92]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think they’re practice level guys. 

 

I do think that they played like practice level guys last night. 
 

 

I recall 1 by Chauncey gardner-  he was focused on laying the wood and didn’t see the ball until it was too late.  
 

another, was a deep ball and Mahomes overthrew everyone.  I remember thinking that the safety may have been able to get his hands on it with more effort, ie, fully extend his arms or dive.   Didn’t see a replay though, it may have been too far

That second one you remembered, he definitely alligator-armed it. Hyde woulda caught that thing

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

 

If ever an INT pick 6 was not the fault of the QB, this is it. Right thru the hands. 

So refreshing to see after the amount of times Allen has had obscene bounces and luck go against him. His WRs have outright volleyed the ball up to the defender about 5 times in the last 3 years, while it always feels like other QBs have everything so much easier along with a horseshoe up their butts. Mahomes was definitely due for that and about 10 other flukes just like it

[Chaos]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought he was in Nick Bolton's jock more than Mahomes's last night. Compared him to Fred Warner while watching back a play where Montgomery skipped right by him. 

 

I didn't even think Bolton played that well. 

Collinsworth started the broadcast saying how the world was going to see how Mahomes could make any recievers look brilliant.  After realizing early on that was not going to show to be true, he mostly made sure everyone knew nothing was Mahomes fault (which was basically true)

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

That’s a shame too, because if he had hands like Kincaid, he’d be really good. 

If he was a player with actual talent he’d be really good 😂. I kid…but only a little bit 

[90sBills]

18 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Skyy Moore & Toney single-handedly  won the game. Can we get two players of the game? 

For all the accolades that KC’s gm gets on here from some he really whiffed on Moore when Pickens was right there. And also in ‘19 passing on DK Metcalf to pick Hardman. Can you imagine the outrage on here if Beane had done that? Yikes. 

[ganesh]

3 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

IMO, 99% of sports talking head “experts” are a joke. They have no more knowledge or insight than tens of millions of serious NFL fans who have been watching the game for decades. At least former players can give some “inside info” that non-players don’t have access to. How somebody like Mina Kimes, as well as many others, could get paid so much is just astounding. Good for them though.

Don't undermine the hard work they have to do every day to make that show available to you.  It is not like they are winging it. 

 

These people are giving expert opinions to pull certain demographics towards the show.  For that they have to do their analysis to understand how the content  they are providing is relatable to that demographics.  There is ton of hard work to be done to make the show.  Plus they are a few hundreds from a wannabe's of thousands who graduate with a journalism degree every spring. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Chaos said:

Collinsworth started the broadcast saying how the world was going to see how Mahomes could make any recievers look brilliant.  After realizing early on that was not going to show to be true, he mostly made sure everyone knew nothing was Mahomes fault (which was basically true)

 

I am not saying he wasn't in Mahomes's jock. But he was way more in Nick Bolton's while he proceeded to have a distinctly average game.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMj64tSaS/

 

😃 😀 😄 😁 🤣 😂 😃 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

Don't undermine the hard work they have to do every day to make that show available to you.  It is not like they are winging it. 

 

These people are giving expert opinions to pull certain demographics towards the show.  For that they have to do their analysis to understand how the content  they are providing is relatable to that demographics.  There is ton of hard work to be done to make the show.  Plus they are a few hundreds from a wannabe's of thousands who graduate with a journalism degree every spring. 

 

 

oh my

 

 

[theRalph]

On 9/8/2023 at 1:27 AM, SoTier said:

He gets open. It sucks that he has hands problems. I like WRs that get open. Something Davis cannot do on a regular basis.

Gabe was hurt last year and has had a great camp. I get so sick of these narratives and DROUGHT AFFECTED Debbie Downers that feed off them. Gabe hasn’t had a regular season snap yet….bottle the acid until there is a play to opine on.

[No_Matter_What]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:26 AM, GunnerBill said:

The first GunnerBill morning after reflections of the season.....

 

• Huge win for the Lions. It was the thing missing in their run last year a win against one of the genuine top half dozen teams in football. This is a signature win and it puts them right in the conversation with Philly and San Fran in the NFC. 

 

 

 

Hmm I think it is little too early to say this.

 

First of all it was Week 1, and we all know it doesn't mean much in the second half of the season.

 

Also, KC was without Jones and Kelce and Lions still needed huge drops by Toney to win (although I can see a counterargument that those drops were nothing against what was Taylor allowed to do whole game).

 

Anyway, great win for the Lions. They deserve a good team and some good seasons.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

Hmm I think it is little too early to say this.

 

First of all it was Week 1, and we all know it doesn't mean much in the second half of the season.

 

Also, KC was without Jones and Kelce and Lions still needed huge drops by Toney to win (although I can see a counterargument that those drops were nothing against what was Taylor allowed to do whole game).

 

Anyway, great win for the Lions. They deserve a good team and some good seasons.

 

I think what it will do for the belief and mentality is bigger than the performance which I agree wasn't special.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think what it will do for the belief and mentality is bigger than the performance which I agree wasn't special.

Well, my reaction was that the Lions were running on a lot of positive energy.  Their coach is like that, and there was so much hype about them since last season ended.  I don't think any win can carry you through the season if you aren't a top team, and I don't think this win and an enthusiastic coach will do it, either.  

[Chaos]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think what it will do for the belief and mentality is bigger than the performance which I agree wasn't special.

The lions are going to be fun to root for.  Very interesting personnel set. If Goff plays like he did against the Chiefs, the Lions will have a hard time breaking .500.  They are not going to have a pick 6 dropped in their hands every game.  And I don't think the Chiefs defense is/was special.  14 points from the offense doesn't put you in the conversation with the Eagles or 49ers.  But I will be rooting for the Lions. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The lions are going to be fun to root for.  Very interesting personnel set. If Goff plays like he did against the Chiefs, the Lions will have a hard time breaking .500.  They are not going to have a pick 6 dropped in their hands every game.  And I don't think the Chiefs defense is/was special.  14 points from the offense doesn't put you in the conversation with the Eagles or 49ers.  But I will be rooting for the Lions. 

 

I think Goff was fine (no brilliant but just fine). I thought Reynolds and Jones dropping passes was more the problem. 

 

In fact on both sides it was a mess of wide receiver play.

Edited September 9, 2023 by GunnerBill

[1onemangang7]

On 9/8/2023 at 2:31 PM, Shaw66 said:

Sean McVay and Matthew Stafford?  You can be sure there were plenty of people saying it's only one game when the Bills beat them to open the season.  They were wrong; it was an indication of how good the Rams actually were.  

There was no doubt from that game that A. Stafford was not right..i.e...injured.  B.  The Rams offensive line was atrocious.  Not the case with the Chiefs.  They need Jones and their chains moving  Kelce back. 

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMj64tSaS/

 

😃 😀 😄 😁 🤣 😂 😃 

For people that don't want to expose their information to the Chinese government via tic-tok, here is the fun part from that video

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Goff was fine (no brilliant but just fine).

it seemed 50% of his passes where wobbly wounded ducks, and that his arm strength was terrible.  Maybe my eyes. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

For people that don't want to expose their information to the Chinese government via tic-tok, here is the fun part from that video

it seemed 50% of his passes where wobbly wounded ducks, and that his arm strength was terrible.  Maybe my eyes. 

 

He has never had the strongest arm in fairness. 

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, theRalph said:

Gabe was hurt last year and has had a great camp. I get so sick of these narratives and DROUGHT AFFECTED Debbie Downers that feed off them. Gabe hasn’t had a regular season snap yet….bottle the acid until there is a play to opine on.

 

You inadvertently attributed the quote above to me instead of Araiza Curse.   I also responded negatively to his BS love affair with Toney.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Goff was fine (no brilliant but just fine). I thought Reynolds and Jones dropping passes was more the problem. 

 

 

Yeah, those guys were awful.  How did you like that WR screen to Reynolds on third and 10?  Good lord...

[k2mountain]

Oh my. 104 pages on a mundane KC/Detroit game.

 

If posters keep up that football vigor it's going to be an interesting season.

[chongli]

I apologize if this has been posted, but thread is way too long to read through:

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by chongli

[NewEra]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:11 PM, Billl said:

 

The season hasn’t even started, and you’re already complaining about officiating.  Impressive.

And then we all watched the KC game.  And now the entire world is complaining about the officiating.  Interesting 

[Nextmanup]

This turned out to be a really good, enjoyable game.

 

Made all the sweeter with KC failing to get the job done.  With Kelce out of the lineup, Detroit did just enough right to win.

If Kelce is out there, KC probably finds a way to win late.

 

Hoping for Kelce to remain out longer than anticipated.

 

 

[mannc]

12 hours ago, chongli said:

I apologize if this has been posted, but thread is way too long to read through:

 

 

Interesting.  I’ve thought that since 2020 the Bills were one of, if not the top, draws in the NFL and I would have thought last year’s Rams-Bills a more attractive game.

[Zerovoltz]

On 9/8/2023 at 6:42 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

@Zerovoltz - remember when I told you Taylor was an average right tackle.... when you were still insisting he was the answer at left tackle before Smith signed? 

 

In fairness I still think he is better than Andrew Wylie who played that spot last year for KC, so they have got experience working round a poor RT. But yea Taylor was brutal last night. He is what he is. A middle of the road RT who the Chiefs overpaid for. 

I don't mind the overpay, and I think he'd be about the same player on the left side.  He IS an upgrade.  Mahomes had TONS of time to throw.  The drops were bad and Mahomes clearly isn't quite used to these guys yet....and the drops made it look worse, but I was encouraged by the pass blocking.  It was good.  

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I don't mind the overpay, and I think he'd be about the same player on the left side.  He IS an upgrade.  Mahomes had TONS of time to throw.  The drops were bad and Mahomes clearly isn't quite used to these guys yet....and the drops made it look worse, but I was encouraged by the pass blocking.  It was good.  

 

Not from Taylor it wasn't.