Who Will End Up Being The Bigger QB Bust?

[RobbRiddick]

I saw Stroud's postgame presser - it was the first time I've ever heard him speak - and I must admit I really liked the kid. The way he was able to laugh at his poor performance and say "I think as an offense we did some good things... well, apart from me" did kind of endear me to the guy and so for that reason alone I'm now hoping he does well

 

(I'm a cheap date)

[DrDawkinstein]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Depends what people think bust means. I tend to have a much higher bar to call someone a bust.

 

Or is it lower?

[Rico]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Depends what people think bust means. I tend to have a much higher bar to call someone a bust.

OK. Will either be better than Marcus Mariota? 
 

 

 

[Gugny]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Depends what people think bust means. I tend to have a much higher bar to call someone a bust.

Depends on the position, too, IMO. 

 

He was the 11th pick. As a QB who’s picked that early, one should expect him to be “good” and have some “upside” by the end of year two. 
 

He was atrocious last year. 

[stuvian]

Chicago is a QB death sentence

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

Depends on the position, too, IMO. 

 

He was the 11th pick. As a QB who’s picked that early, one should expect him to be “good” and have some “upside” by the end of year two. 
 

He was atrocious last year. 

 

I don't think Fields was atrocious last year. I think he is still a below average NFL Quarterback. And if you take his running away I'm not sure he has shown he can win consistently from the pocket. But I do think he flashed upside and I don't think he was atrocious. Think this is a big year for him. If he plateaus at 2022 levels then he isn't the guy. But there may still be more improvement in there.

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Fields was atrocious last year. I think he is still a below average NFL Quarterback. And if you take his running away I'm not sure he has shown he can win consistently from the pocket. But I do think he flashed upside and I don't think he was atrocious. Think this is a big year for him. If he plateaus at 2022 levels then he isn't the guy. But there may still be more improvement in there.

While I do maintain that he was horrible last year, I will say that there may be some hope for him because he’s a smart dude. 
 

Crazy athleticism with nothing going on between the ears will get you Lamont. Fun to watch, but don’t plan on getting deep into the postseason. 
 

I guess with a decent supporting cast and coaching, Fields could be much better than what he’s shown this far. 

[eball]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:26 PM, dave mcbride said:

I dunno. While Chicago's metro area is a bit bigger (8.9 million), it's not that much bigger (Houston's is 7.3 million). And last I heard football is pretty big in Texas.

Mac Jones has been objectively better than Fields (factor in that Fields was absolutely abysmal in his rookie season while Jones was modestly competent), even though Jones is not very good. You realize that Fields was sacked 55 times in only 15 games last season? It takes a certain kind of talent to be sacked that often. You thought Derek Carr was worse than EJ Manuel, which has stuck with me over the years.

 

If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years on this board, it is to not trust @C.Biscuit97’s assessment of QB play. 😂

 

[Rico]

37 minutes ago, eball said:

 

If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years on this board, it is to not trust @C.Biscuit97’s assessment of QB play. 😂

 

Fun fact: Did you know EJ had better stats than Josh Allen in their rookie years?

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Fun fact: Did you know EJ had better stats than Josh Allen in their rookie years?

 

That's because EJ had Nate Hackett's "easy" playbook down by mini-camp.  

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/e-j-manuel-says-bills-offense-easier-learn-165504223.html

 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

On 8/9/2023 at 4:19 PM, Rico said:

True. I do remember reading that Bears fans were very upset that he didn't make the Pro Bowl last year, so it seems expectations are very high there... and to me, busting in Chicago is a whole lot bigger than busting in Houston.

Don’t tell that to Deshaun. He loved busting in Houston… 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years on this board, it is to not trust @C.Biscuit97’s assessment of QB play. 😂

 

Or I be like you and add nothing of value but just say every bills player is awesome. I’ll pick a few qbs and let’s go head to head on some bets this year. You in?

2 hours ago, Rico said:

Fun fact: Did you know EJ had better stats than Josh Allen in their rookie years?

Did you know that Rico is shorter than Lil Donte?

[C.Biscuit97]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:26 PM, dave mcbride said:

I dunno. While Chicago's metro area is a bit bigger (8.9 million), it's not that much bigger (Houston's is 7.3 million). And last I heard football is pretty big in Texas.

Mac Jones has been objectively better than Fields (factor in that Fields was absolutely abysmal in his rookie season while Jones was modestly competent), even though Jones is not very good. You realize that Fields was sacked 55 times in only 15 games last season? It takes a certain kind of talent to be sacked that often. You thought Derek Carr was worse than EJ Manuel, which has stuck with me over the years.

1 - coming back with a 10 year old thing I might have said when I was in full eball homer mode? Yeah, I guess I wasn’t impressed with Carr’s 3-13 season and didn’t want to give up on our 1st round pick (mainly because he was nice and had 1st time nfl OC Nate Hackett as his coach). 
 

but yeah Dave. You got me. Carr is better than EJ!!! Of course, they have the same amount of playoff wins and Carr got cut and signed a below market deal. (Though I think NO is a good fit for him).

 

2 - why don’t point on me talking up Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, or Hirts became they became starters? Oh wait, you had to use some random example from 10 years ago? Check out the Mahomes training camp thread before he became a starter that was a 100 pages long, where idiots like Eball and lil’ Rico were trashing him. 
 

Or me losing my mind about trading up for Zay Jones instead of staying put and drafting Cooper Kupp or Juju. Nah, can’t use those. Sounds like an agenda.

 

3 - Allen and Fields weren’t that much different in their first 2 years. 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FielJu00.htm

 

does this mean Fields will get to Allen’s level? Hell no but Allen took a major jump when we got Diggs. I don’t think DJ Moore is on Diggs’ level but is a major upgrade. 
 

as for Jones, there is legit nothing special about him. Nothing. He also is a whiny douche who has temper tantrums. You made a great point about the OSU and players around him. I do have to admit Jones really elevated that struggling, talentless Bama program so salute to him.

 

Has Jones been better than Fields so far? I guess. But even a fading Belichick might have a slight edge over the Bears’ coaches. But am I very happy that the Pats settled with Jones, who they tried benching last year? Absolutely. I’d rather miss with the guy with superstar traits than settle with the guy with meh traits. But do you.

 

4 - I’m sure you have had plenty of terrible takes but I don’t care to remember them. But I’m way more right than wrong. Ask Stevestojan after our bet. Or BillfromNYC. Let’s talk turkey and you name the stakes. 

[Rico]

38 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

4 - I’m sure you have had plenty of terrible takes but I don’t care to remember them. But I’m way more right than wrong. Ask Stevestojan after our bet. Or BillfromNYC. Let’s talk turkey and you name the stakes. 

Your extended break was a good move, some people may have forgotten... but even more so, you're lucky Thurman1 came along.

[C.Biscuit97]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:51 AM, Rico said:

Your extended break was a good move, some people may have forgotten... but even more so, you're lucky Thurman1 came along.

One day, when I am 60 plus years old like you, I hope to have 10,000 posts where the most memorable thing I said was calling another grown man Lil (who is much bigger than you).  You are truly an inspiration! 

On 8/12/2023 at 11:08 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

1 - coming back with a 10 year old thing I might have said when I was in full eball homer mode? Yeah, I guess I wasn’t impressed with Carr’s 3-13 season and didn’t want to give up on our 1st round pick (mainly because he was nice and had 1st time nfl OC Nate Hackett as his coach). 
 

but yeah Dave. You got me. Carr is better than EJ!!! Of course, they have the same amount of playoff wins and Carr got cut and signed a below market deal. (Though I think NO is a good fit for him).

 

2 - why don’t point on me talking up Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, or Hirts became they became starters? Oh wait, you had to use some random example from 10 years ago? Check out the Mahomes training camp thread before he became a starter that was a 100 pages long, where idiots like Eball and lil’ Rico were trashing him. 
 

Or me losing my mind about trading up for Zay Jones instead of staying put and drafting Cooper Kupp or Juju. Nah, can’t use those. Sounds like an agenda.

 

3 - Allen and Fields weren’t that much different in their first 2 years. 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FielJu00.htm

 

does this mean Fields will get to Allen’s level? Hell no but Allen took a major jump when we got Diggs. I don’t think DJ Moore is on Diggs’ level but is a major upgrade. 
 

as for Jones, there is legit nothing special about him. Nothing. He also is a whiny douche who has temper tantrums. You made a great point about the OSU and players around him. I do have to admit Jones really elevated that struggling, talentless Bama program so salute to him.

 

Has Jones been better than Fields so far? I guess. But even a fading Belichick might have a slight edge over the Bears’ coaches. But am I very happy that the Pats settled with Jones, who they tried benching last year? Absolutely. I’d rather miss with the guy with superstar traits than settle with the guy with meh traits. But do you.

 

4 - I’m sure you have had plenty of terrible takes but I don’t care to remember them. But I’m way more right than wrong. Ask Stevestojan after our bet. Or BillfromNYC. Let’s talk turkey and you name the stakes. 

Fields 3-3, 128 yards, 2 tds including one to Moore, 158.3 rating. Is that good? 
 

handsome C.Biscuit97 1, nerds, haters, lil’Rico 0

[Rico]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

One day, when I am 60 plus years old like you, I hope to have 10,000 posts where the most memorable thing I said was calling another grown man Lil (who is much bigger than you).  You are truly an inspiration! 

Fields 3-3, 128 yards, 2 tds including one to Moore, 158.3 rating. Is that good? 
 

handsome C.Biscuit97 1, nerds, haters, lil’Rico 0

Still living rent-free inside your head after all these years. Cheers! 

[Mr. WEO]

this is an impossible hair to split.

[Bubba Gump]

Bryce Young

[mannc]

On 8/10/2023 at 11:16 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I actually like what Houston has done this off season. Starting off by bringing in Robert Woods. Yes, he's aging and declining in skills, however he brings some leadership and experience. Both good for a rookie QB to lean on. They also have Nico Collins and Metchie at WR...young guys that can grow with him.

 

Signed Dalton Shultz at TE. Big target there. They brought in Singletary to compliment Pierce and have the ability to have a deep run game to help take pressure off.

 

Not to mention bringing in Case Keenum who is a long term vet QB to help him in the QB room. 

 

Houston is actually my sleeper pick to be the team that comes out of basically nowhere to make a Wild Card run this year. 

Are you serious?  That is a horrific WR group in Houston…I mean, 2018 Bills horrific.  They have drafted terribly too.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, mannc said:

Are you serious?  That is a horrific WR group in Houston…I mean, 2018 Bills horrific.  They have drafted terribly too.

Right now it's more about the QB being a deer in the headlights. Tank Dell may very well be a draft steal on top of what they had.

[BuffaloBillyG]

On 8/10/2023 at 2:16 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I actually like what Houston has done this off season. Starting off by bringing in Robert Woods. Yes, he's aging and declining in skills, however he brings some leadership and experience. Both good for a rookie QB to lean on. They also have Nico Collins and Metchie at WR...young guys that can grow with him.

 

Signed Dalton Shultz at TE. Big target there. They brought in Singletary to compliment Pierce and have the ability to have a deep run game to help take pressure off.

 

Not to mention bringing in Case Keenum who is a long term vet QB to help him in the QB room. 

 

Houston is actually my sleeper pick to be the team that comes out of basically nowhere to make a Wild Card run this year. 

Looks like the voting was a bit off on this one. 

 

Some interesting takes on CJ Stroud in this one. I would say I didn't exactly embarrass myself with this take. 

 

 

[bobobonators]

Posters on here saying Houston WR are horrific is cringeworthy.  Tank Dell and Nico Collins are possibly the best WR combo in the league. Top 3 for sure. 

[Brand J]

12 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Posters on here saying Houston WR are horrific is cringeworthy.  Tank Dell and Nico Collins are possibly the best WR combo in the league. Top 3 for sure. 

They’d both be no names if Stroud had busted. Luckily for them he’s having an unprecedented rookie season. 

[bobobonators]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

They’d both be no names if Stroud had busted. Luckily for them he’s having an unprecedented rookie season. 

I mean that’s always the case to a certain extent. If that was completely true though, Mahomes and Allen would be making Tank Dells and Nico Collins of all their receivers. I’m still waiting for Shakir to turn into Dell. 
 

Give more credit where credit is due. Prior to getting injured, Dell was a monster. 

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, bobobonators said:

I mean that’s always the case to a certain extent. If that was completely true though, Mahomes and Allen would be making Tank Dells and Nico Collins of all their receivers. I’m still waiting for Shakir to turn into Dell. 
 

Give more credit where credit is due. Prior to getting injured, Dell was a monster. 

If Tank Dell and Nico Collins had Gardener Minshew throwing them the ball you wouldn’t know the names of either one of those guys. It’s the QB. Credit to both for making plays when the opportunity presents itself though, they’re clearly on a higher level than Sky Moore, MVS, and Kadarius Toney, guys who do almost nothing but drop catchable passes.  
Allen’s receivers have dropped the 7th highest percentage of passes, so they’re not doing him the best of favors either. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

If Tank Dell and Nico Collins had Gardener Minshew throwing them the ball you wouldn’t know the names of either one of those guys. It’s the QB. Credit to both for making plays when the opportunity presents itself though, they’re clearly on a higher level than Sky Moore, MVS, and Kadarius Toney, guys who do almost nothing but drop catchable passes.  
Allen’s receivers have dropped the 7th highest percentage of passes, so they’re not doing him the best of favors either. 

 

I agree to an extent on Nico. Tank can play though. To me he can do everything Zay Flowers can do and was a 3rd round pick not a first rounder.

[dave mcbride]

C.J. Stroud looks like he might be the Buckeyes’ Brady. For decades going back to the early 1960s, it was a general rule that Michigan QBs, all of whom were high profile given the status of the program (and were always on tv), would suck in the NFL. Then Brady came along and the rule died (because it wasn’t really a rule in the end). Seems to be what’s going on with Stroud here. He’s very good, but more importantly it’s looking like he’s the first OSU qb to actually be a success in the NFL.

Edited January 7 by dave mcbride

[Dopey]

So, a thread about nfl busts, before their rookie season even begins at TBD. Why am I not surprised? How many players on our team were wrongfully declared busts during their rookie year, much less in August? 
I guess player development is for losers. 
 

Sincerely,

Terrel “I suck” Bernard 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

My biggest problem with Fields so far is that the guy can't stay on the field consistently. That is the #1 reason I would look to move on from him. If he can manage to stay on the field, I think he could develop into a poor man's Lamar Jackson. And Lamar is about to be a two-time MVP and has one of the best regular seasons winning percentages of all time for a QB. A poor man's LJ could still be a heck of a valuable football player. 

 

At the very least I could see Fields becoming a Jalen Hurts type QB. But the guy can't be missing as many games as he does due to injury. 

 

Stroud, I don't think anyone saw this coming. Folks mocked him endlessly in that pre-season game where he through a couple of really bad picks. 

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Posters on here saying Houston WR are horrific is cringeworthy.  Tank Dell and Nico Collins are possibly the best WR combo in the league. Top 3 for sure. 

What

[jethro_tull]

Here in the Chicago area the thoughts on Fields are very much mixed.  

Dave Wannstedt on the radio broke down his horrible 4th quarter stats and believes that the Bears should draft a QB, namely Caleb Williams.  

I have to agree because Fields has zero swagger and confidence and after year three should have shown enough to make his case.  

[Doc]

I was going off OSU's NFL QB history and Stroud's terrible S2.  So much for that being a predictor.

 

As for Fields, the Bears are in a tough spot.  IMHO they should draft a QB with their 1st overall and have him sit behind Fields, to see if Fields can improve in 2024 and look to trade him if he does.

[T master]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:11 AM, Gregg said:

Why isn't Zach Wilson on this poll. Number #2 pick in the draft. He was terrible his first two years in the league and now he will hold a clipboard these next two seasons watching Rodgers play.

 

The only reason why Wilson is still playing is to assure a very high draft pick for the Jets this coming draft they will add yet another high first round draft pick to their roster for next season and if Rogers can stay healthy they will be much better for it .

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilson is released after the resume he has put up I don't think he is even back up worthy now but one never knows what the Jets might do with him i don't believe anyone would want to trade for him i think he will just fade into the darkness of the NFL black hole of those that couldn't cut it in the big league !! 

 

Who knows maybe he can go to Peyton & Eli's summer QB camp to learn a few things this off season  ...

Edited January 7 by T master

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Posters on here saying Houston WR are horrific is cringeworthy.  Tank Dell and Nico Collins are possibly the best WR combo in the league. Top 3 for sure. 

In a world where Tyreek and Waddle, AJ Brown and Smith, Deebo and Aiyuk, and Chase and Higgins exist, there’s is no possibility they are the best or even close to top 3 “for sure.”