Schein-Cook is on his "guaranteed to improve" list

[TBBills Fan]

I think we have the "right" Cook!

 

When you lose a fumble on your first NFL carry, you get buried. That's what happened to Cook, who coughed up the football on his first snap of the nationally televised Kickoff Game against the defending champion Rams. The Bills wound up winning in blowout fashion, 31-10, but it took a while for the rookie to get back into the regular rotation. In fact, he didn't log 20 snaps in a game until December. However, he sprinkled in plenty of promise as a runner and receiver. And with last year's leading rusher (Devin Singletary) now in Houston, Cook is a prime candidate for a Year 2 breakout.

 

Freshly minted Madden cover boy Josh Allen is a dynamic MVP candidate, but he needs more balance in the offense. Veterans Damien Harris, Nyheim Hines and Latavius Murray can have roles in the backfield rotation, but Cook needs to be the straw that stirs the drink. It's why Buffalo took him in the second round of the 2022 draft. He has explosive potential as a playmaker in Ken Dorsey's offense.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/which-nfl-players-will-improve-in-23-dak-prescott-james-cook-kyle-pitts-among-gu

[wppete]

Going to be a break out year for Cook…. 2 TEs and James cook in the backfield will be a matchup nightmare for defenses. 

[TBBills Fan]

12 minutes ago, wppete said:

Going to be a break out year for Cook…. 2 TEs and James cook in the backfield will be a matchup nightmare for defenses. 

 

I agree!  We can be a matchup nightmare.....Dorsey has the ingredients, so I  think the he is under the most pressure of anyone at OBD

[AuntieEm]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

Going to be a break out year for Cook…. 2 TEs and James cook in the backfield will be a matchup nightmare for defenses. 

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

[mathja]

7 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

It’s sort of like going five wide. It would be an empty backfield.

[Dave_Bills]

12 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

Nothing stopping them from doing that. I doubt we see much of that though

[BuffaloBillyG]

11 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

In theory, yes they could.

 

5 OL

3 TE

1 QB

 

That leaves 2 spots open for a mixture of WR or RB.

 

The issue for me is to do that Kincaid would basically be WR2 in the slot with another WR and a RB. Gabe Davis is (by far) our best run blocking WR so if we are going heavy and giving the allusion of a run play it makes sense for Davis to be the WR. Teams do key on personal and who is out there. 

 

So this would be taking Diggs out for a TE3...and that's not a good move IMO. The other possibility would be no RB...but that kind of makes having the 3 TE set pointless.

 

[AuntieEm]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

In theory, yes they could.

 

5 OL

3 TE

1 QB

 

That leaves 2 spots open for a mixture of WR or RB.

 

The issue for me is to do that Kincaid would basically be WR2 in the slot with another WR and a RB. Gabe Davis is (by far) our best run blocking WR so if we are going heavy and giving the allusion of a run play it makes sense for Davis to be the WR. Teams do key on personal and who is out there. 

 

So this would be taking Diggs out for a TE3...and that's not a good move IMO. The other possibility would be no RB...but that kind of makes having the 3 TE set pointless.

 

 

 

I was thinking Diggs wr1., 3 tes. Knox Kincaid and whoever they keep besides those two at te, then cook as rb.  For everybody crying that Davis isn't a legit wr2 then the above could be a formation they could use to unsettle a defense if it seems they are getting into a groove.  

Edited June 10, 2023 by AuntieEm

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, AuntieEm said:

 

 

I was thinking Diggs wr1., 3 tes. Knox Kincaid and whoever they keep besides thosec2 at te, then cook as rb.  For every I ne crying that Davis isn't a legit wr2 then the above could be a formation they could use to unsettle a defense if it seems they are getting into a groove.  

The idea to keep a defense off balance means not being able to tip your hand. If Diggs is out there it's still pass 1st.

 

We can go back to last season and when the Bills went into run sets Diggs did come out for Davis as a run block option. In any event whoever our TE 3 is would be a step down from Diggs or Davis being on the field IMO.

[wppete]

26 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

I think it can happen. Dorsey needs to get creative. Think Baltimore has used 3 TEs formations over the last few years….

[AuntieEm]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

The idea to keep a defense off balance means not being able to tip your hand. If Diggs is out there it's still pass 1st.

 

We can go back to last season and when the Bills went into run sets Diggs did come out for Davis as a run block option. In any event whoever our TE 3 is would be a step down from Diggs or Davis being on the field IMO.

 

True we don't have a 3rd te that's gonna be better than Diggs or Davis.  Just think it be nice for them to have some plays designed with that formation just to have it in the bag.  Could maybe use it for some reg season short yardage plays with enough success that opponents would bite hard in post season on stopping short yardage pickup situation but they just go deep to open Diggs or screen to Kincaid if he's wide open with open field ahead.

5 minutes ago, wppete said:

I think it can happen. Dorsey needs to get creative. Think Baltimore has used 3 TEs formations over the last few years….

 

Hope he starts having some slight variations to plays we excell at then if a defense Linda blows up that play you can go back to that formation with some variation that could go for big yardage.

[Mr. WEO]

I stopped reading after “Dak Prescott”

 

come on…

[ganesh]

38 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

I think the Patriots ran that kind of thing in their hey days.

[boyst]

Dorsey needs a run game coordinator and until then any rb we have is a jag

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

Em, 13 personnel is a fun option, but unlike Baltimore in 2019 who had the horses, we have Morris and not sure if we want him over a healthy Gabe.  
 

Don’t forget there is a 21 option with Harris and Cook who is a pass catching option.  The point is we have more variable options this year with the talent we’ve added vs. I know D Hop would’ve made. Better 11 personnel option.

 

 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Cook has never been the guy.  Not in high school.  Not in college.  Certainly not in the nfl the way he shies away from contact and is bad in pass pro.  Harris is the best all around back on this team and it ain’t close.  Now he’s just gotta stay healthy

[Airseven]

4 hours ago, wppete said:

Going to be a break out year for Cook…. 2 TEs and James cook in the backfield will be a matchup nightmare for defenses. 

Not sure about your “nightmare” fluff, but that set is indeed intriguing. Cook proved me wrong by the end of last season and I’m excited to see him as the lead back.

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, wppete said:

Going to be a break out year for Cook…. 2 TEs and James cook in the backfield will be a matchup nightmare for defenses. 

Absolutely.  It adds a whole different dimension to the O. We can attack defenses in soooo many ways 

If that run gm gets going this could be an all time great O 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

I agree!  We can be a matchup nightmare.....Dorsey has the ingredients, so I  think the he is under the most pressure of anyone at OBD

There is no excuse this season for KD.  He's got the expanded weapons on the OL, RB's and TE's to compliment the WR room.  Whatever he learned from Daboll, we better see it this fall or he'll be the 3rd major coach to be ousted (Farwell, Frazier).

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Em, 13 personnel is a fun option, but unlike Baltimore in 2019 who had the horses, we have Morris and not sure if we want him over a healthy Gabe.  
 

Don’t forget there is a 21 option with Harris and Cook who is a pass catching option.  The point is we have more variable options this year with the talent we’ve added vs. I know D Hop would’ve made. Better 11 personnel

 

  Well they can at least get the 2 te sets down then if Kincaid is what we hope  then they could draft or develop some promising te talents going forward.  

[NewEra]

Cook is filthy.  I hope we never see Hines or Murray get a carry and Harris no more than 30% of the RB carries.  Fat chance, I know 😔 I love watching this kid run.  

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Cook has never been the guy.  Not in high school.  Not in college.  Certainly not in the nfl the way he shies away from contact and is bad in pass pro.  Harris is the best all around back on this team and it ain’t close.  Now he’s just gotta stay healthy

Agree 100%

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Cook is filthy.  I hope we never see Hines or Murray get a carry and Harris no more than 30% of the RB carries.  Fat chance, I know 😔 I love watching this kid run.  

Cook is light in the ass. He isn't a 20 to 25 touch NFL RB. 

 

The other RBs are greatly needed in order for the Bills to be successful. 

 

Not saying Cook can't or won't be good. He showed promise and still has a lot to prove. I think it's pretty safe to say he's not a "bell cow" RB. 

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree 100%

Cook is light in the ass. He isn't a 20 to 25 touch NFL RB. 

 

The other RBs are greatly needed in order for the Bills to be successful. 

 

Not saying Cook can't or won't be good. He showed promise and still has a lot to prove. I think it's pretty safe to say he's not a "bell cow" RB. 

12 rushes and 3-5 catches.  Not 20-25 and I think he’s stronger in the ass than you think he is.  I never said he’s a bell cow back.  We’re a pass first team and he’s RB1- 

I know he’s not going to get 75%.  That’s just what I’d like to see.  I fully expect Harris to get rock in the 4th qtrs of games where we have the lead.  

I don’t think we’re going to run it any more than we have in the past.  I think we may actually run less now that we have a guy like Kincaid over the middle.  “Rookie tight ends don’t produce”…..that’s all I hear.  Until now.  
 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, boyst said:

Dorsey needs a run game coordinator and until then any rb we have is a jag

if your OC needs a “run game coordinator”, you need a new OC

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

It's why Buffalo took him in the second round of the 2022 draft. He has explosive potential as a playmaker in Ken Dorsey's offense.

 

We've heard that about other players in the past too.  Time for Ken to put it all together properly and for McD to make sure he does.   

 

 

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree 100%

Cook is light in the ass. He isn't a 20 to 25 touch NFL RB. 

 

The other RBs are greatly needed in order for the Bills to be successful. 

 

Not saying Cook can't or won't be good. He showed promise and still has a lot to prove. I think it's pretty safe to say he's not a "bell cow" RB. 

 

Well, it's a fact that he's never had more than 140 touches in college or last year when he had 110.  

 

Well we're DFL in carries by RBs last season and in no small way, so some of that is on the coaching.  

 

We'll see what happens this season.  

 

 

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Em, 13 personnel is a fun option, but unlike Baltimore in 2019 who had the horses, we have Morris and not sure if we want him over a healthy Gabe.  
 

Don’t forget there is a 21 option with Harris and Cook who is a pass catching option.  The point is we have more variable options this year with the talent we’ve added vs. I know D Hop would’ve made. Better 11 personnel option.

 

 

Let’s also remember that Gilliam is also more of an H-back than a true TE or FB. That also provides flexibility whether you’d call it 22 or 13 personnel. It provides some interesting options for motion and formation shifts that could catch teams off guard. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree 100%

Cook is light in the ass. He isn't a 20 to 25 touch NFL RB. 

 

The other RBs are greatly needed in order for the Bills to be successful. 

 

Not saying Cook can't or won't be good. He showed promise and still has a lot to prove. I think it's pretty safe to say he's not a "bell cow" RB. 

I just think we need to get away from bell cow running back thought

 

It will be a two back system, but cook is going to see a ton of time on the field are the run in the ball or out in the flat catching passes

[MJS]

8 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

In theory, yes they could.

 

5 OL

3 TE

1 QB

 

That leaves 2 spots open for a mixture of WR or RB.

 

The issue for me is to do that Kincaid would basically be WR2 in the slot with another WR and a RB. Gabe Davis is (by far) our best run blocking WR so if we are going heavy and giving the allusion of a run play it makes sense for Davis to be the WR. Teams do key on personal and who is out there. 

 

So this would be taking Diggs out for a TE3...and that's not a good move IMO. The other possibility would be no RB...but that kind of makes having the 3 TE set pointless.

If you have 3 TE's, they would be the ones run blocking. You could keep Diggs on the field if you want.

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I just think we need to get away from bell cow running back thought

 

It will be a two back system, but cook is going to see a ton of time on the field are the run in the ball or out in the flat catching passes

Not so sure about that. If Harris stays healthy he could be a threat to Cook. A healthy Harris is a pretty good RB. 

 

I'd argue that Hines can do everything Cook can do and perhaps better. For some reason, he was never given an opportunity. 

[machine gun kelly]

7 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

  Well they can at least get the 2 te sets down then if Kincaid is what we hope  then they could draft or develop some promising te talents going forward.  

Yep, 12 for sure once Kincaid proves he’s reliable in the game.

 

Dont overlook 21 though with Harris and Cook coupled with which ever DK they want in there.  Probably Lnox as he’s a better blocker at this time.

 

I think the overall point is 11, 12, and 21 is all on the table and not so predictable.  Dorsey has no excuses now at all for a more varied offense.  I was on the Mets see approach in year 2, but Beane gave him everything he needs especially two G’s who should be impactful on blocking.

[ColoradoBills]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:29 AM, newcam2012 said:

Not so sure about that. If Harris stays healthy he could be a threat to Cook. A healthy Harris is a pretty good RB. 

 

I'd argue that Hines can do everything Cook can do and perhaps better. For some reason, he was never given an opportunity. 

 

I see Cook and a healthy Harris splitting rushing attempts with Cook getting a bit more.

Bills have averaged 440 rushing attempts (including Allen) the last 2 seasons.  I see that being about the same.

Cook will lead that with around 175 (10 per game).

 

It should be determined by game plans against the opposing Ds and game situations.

[machine gun kelly]

As much as Schein likes the flare for dramatic, albeit very funny at times, he’s been right more than many.  He predicted before the Bills were winning the East each year they would before the 2020 season.  
 

Im very hopeful on Cook given his explosiveness although mostly in the 2nd half of the season.  He and alternating Harris should be a solid 1-2 punch on the running side the ball.  In addition, with the full off season Hines may be able to do more as well when Cook needs a breather.  Also, Murray should help in December and January for short yardage and goal line.  Maybe this is the year the designed Allen runs goes away at least until the playoffs.  Once the playoffs, I don’t care what tricks we pull out for Allen.  If anything, maybe we catch a te off guard as he hasn’t done it all year.

[NewEra]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:29 AM, newcam2012 said:

Not so sure about that. If Harris stays healthy he could be a threat to Cook. A healthy Harris is a pretty good RB. 

 

I'd argue that Hines can do everything Cook can do and perhaps better. For some reason, he was never given an opportunity. 

This is why I don’t have you on ignore.  🤣 thanks for the laugh.  

On 6/10/2023 at 3:53 AM, machine gun kelly said:

Yep, 12 for sure once Kincaid proves he’s reliable in the game.

 

Dont overlook 21 though with Harris and Cook coupled with which ever DK they want in there.  Probably Lnox as he’s a better blocker at this time.

 

I think the overall point is 11, 12, and 21 is all on the table and not so predictable.  Dorsey has no excuses now at all for a more varied offense.  I was on the Mets see approach in year 2, but Beane gave him everything he needs especially two G’s who should be impactful on blocking.

And maybe some 13 with gilliam.  Could be very effective for play action

[3rdand12]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:15 PM, machine gun kelly said:

Em, 13 personnel is a fun option, but unlike Baltimore in 2019 who had the horses, we have Morris and not sure if we want him over a healthy Gabe.  
 

Don’t forget there is a 21 option with Harris and Cook who is a pass catching option.  The point is we have more variable options this year with the talent we’ve added vs. I know D Hop would’ve made. Better 11 personnel option.

 

 

And Nyheim can catch and run pretty well i hear
The options Dorsey has are pretty sweet this season up and coming.

Thanks McBeanes 

 

if only Bills could become really good at quick substitutions....

On 6/10/2023 at 12:46 AM, Mr. WEO said:

if your OC needs a “run game coordinator”, you need a new OC

well we might. This is the year to decide that question

 

I had enough of Kens "Go Deep " plays  lol   jk mostly ...

Edited June 11, 2023 by 3rdand12

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

This is why I don’t have you on ignore.  🤣 thanks for the laugh.  

And maybe some 13 with gilliam.  Could be very effective for play action

PLOW THE FIELD RG!

 

I just want to see a diverse scheme this year so defenses constantly are wondering what we are lining up as we have the horses.

[Mat68]

I think Cook enters the Kimara or Bell type category this year. Very good runner, very good pass catcher.  Yards from scrimmage monster.  I really enjoy the back field.  I dont think Harris will eat into his production.  Some weeks Buffalo will feel they have advantage on the ground and they use Harris more.  Cook can still take advantage of those same looks and will still be the primary receiving back.  

[PrimeTime101]

On 6/9/2023 at 8:05 PM, AuntieEm said:

Hey if they put Kincaid in as the slot receiver can they put in 2 tes beside him as well making it a 3 te set?  Just curious if there's anything preventing that formation.

i would be against it. The more players you have blocking, the more players that cheat and work their way in the box. Cook needs some room to cook.

[Mat68]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:31 PM, newcam2012 said:

Agree 100%

Cook is light in the ass. He isn't a 20 to 25 touch NFL RB. 

 

The other RBs are greatly needed in order for the Bills to be successful. 

 

Not saying Cook can't or won't be good. He showed promise and still has a lot to prove. I think it's pretty safe to say he's not a "bell cow" RB. 

He is large enough for the usage Singeltary had.  Cook is better at receiving and a more dynamic athlete.  Cook was like 10 carries away from leading the league in yards per carry.  I want Cook with the ball when they scheme up a run.  Not in in secondary role where he is in so he is getting the ball sort of way.  
 

The other guys help keep tread off Cooks tires.  Harris is the primary backup and short yardage back.  Murray would be the next guy up.  But lets not discount a package with knox, Kincaid, Davis, Gilliam and Cook on a third and short.  They can go under center and go spread.  Cook is the scheme beater.
 

 Everyone else is meant to keep usage off him.  Harris will be the primary.  Heavy murray is Harris backup.  When cook is out Hines is the pass catching/ matchup back.  Cook is going to be a problem this year.  They will dictate a heavy personal to run out of.  Early the Jets and other will dare them too run.  When Cook starts to get big runs they will adjust and that is when offense will be at a massive advantage.

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

He is large enough for the usage Singeltary had.  Cook is better at receiving and a more dynamic athlete.  Cook was like 10 carries away from leading the league in yards per carry.  I want Cook with the ball when they scheme up a run.  Not in in secondary role where he is in so he is getting the ball sort of way.  
 

The other guys help keep tread off Cooks tires.  Harris is the primary backup and short yardage back.  Murray would be the next guy up.  But lets not discount a package with knox, Kincaid, Davis, Gilliam and Cook on a third and short.  They can go under center and go spread.  Cook is the scheme beater.
 

 Everyone else is meant to keep usage off him.  Harris will be the primary.  Heavy murray is Harris backup.  When cook is out Hines is the pass catching/ matchup back.  Cook is going to be a problem this year.  They will dictate a heavy personal to run out of.  Early the Jets and other will dare them too run.  When Cook starts to get big runs they will adjust and that is when offense will be at a massive advantage.

 

 

Sorry, the thought of the bold just made me chuckle.  😋

[newcam2012]

8 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

He is large enough for the usage Singeltary had.  Cook is better at receiving and a more dynamic athlete.  Cook was like 10 carries away from leading the league in yards per carry.  I want Cook with the ball when they scheme up a run.  Not in in secondary role where he is in so he is getting the ball sort of way.  
 

The other guys help keep tread off Cooks tires.  Harris is the primary backup and short yardage back.  Murray would be the next guy up.  But lets not discount a package with knox, Kincaid, Davis, Gilliam and Cook on a third and short.  They can go under center and go spread.  Cook is the scheme beater.
 

 Everyone else is meant to keep usage off him.  Harris will be the primary.  Heavy murray is Harris backup.  When cook is out Hines is the pass catching/ matchup back.  Cook is going to be a problem this year.  They will dictate a heavy personal to run out of.  Early the Jets and other will dare them too run.  When Cook starts to get big runs they will adjust and that is when offense will be at a massive advantage.

I like the optimism but I'm not convinced it will happen. Why? 

 

I can't remember when the Bills under McD have really ever really committed to a running game or using a RB ascan effective pass catcher. 

 

Dorsey showed his elementary offensive scheme last year. You know how many balls were thrown to Cook and Hines? It's ridiculously low and inexcusable. Having faith in Dorsey is an x factor to say the least.

 

Lastly, I'm not totally convinced that Cook is the guy. He's young and he showed promise. There is a lot to like. However, we've seen this several times with other Bills RBs. Cook is no sure thing to progress and light up offenses. He still has a lot to learn and relatively unproven.