Jim Brown dead at 87

[K-9]

53 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

From the Washington Post: 

 

Away from the playing field, however, Mr. Brown could be a complex, contradictory and troubled man. His career began at the dawn of the civil rights movement, and he was acutely aware of the double standards that prevailed in sports and society.

Even when he was named NFL rookie of the year in 1957, he wasn’t always allowed to stay at the same hotels or dine in the same restaurants as his White teammates. Mr. Brown became something of a symbolic figure early in his career, particularly when his team played Washington’s NFL franchise, whose owner, George Preston Marshall, stubbornly refused to put a Black player on the roster until 1962.

Washington Post sportswriter Shirley Povich mocked Marshall by noting that Mr. Brown and other African Americans were born “ineligible” to play for the Redskins. In 1960, Povich equated Mr. Brown’s exploits on the gridiron with advances in the civil rights movement, writing that the player “integrated the Redskins’ goal linewith more than deliberate speed, perhaps exceeding the famous Supreme Court decree. Brown fled 25 yards like a man in an uncommon hurry and the Redskins’ goal line, at least, became interracial.”

Shirley Povich was a national treasure. He bore witness to and wrote first hand accounts about of some of the greatest sports events and participants in history. Even left the sports desk to cover WWII for The Post. Even covered the World Series for The Post after his retirement. Wrote columns into his nineties. A walking, talking history book. 

[Don Otreply]

45 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

RIP Jim Brown

Before the merger the Browns were the favorite NFL team in my family. 

Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly and Paul Warfield were my favorites

Had his poster on my wall

Loved seeing him in the Dirty Dozen at the theater as a kid.

Sounds like my house when I was growing up, 👍

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

Rest In Paradise!

[Nephilim17]

Amazing that being one of the very best football players ever he accomplished so much off the field including his vitally important activism. 

 

You don't see that combination of super athlete and great human being very often.

[DCbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Chris from Rochester said:

I never saw him play but my dad would tell me stories of him carrying defenders into the endzone. RIP

If you get a chance, watch his highlights on YouTube or elsewhere.  It's mind blowing what he could do.

[Bad Things]

Rest in Peace to one of the all-time greats.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

We often hear how players from long ago eras couldn’t possibly compete against today’s bigger, faster, 24/7, 365 NFL player and that’s usually the case. But Jim Brown could have played and been a force today as well. 6’2”, 230lbs. with world class speed can play in all eras. 
 

 

He would compete today and be a good starter, but I don't think he would be as dominant as he was in the 60's.

 

He would be Derrick Henry.

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

If you get a chance, watch his highlights on YouTube or elsewhere.  It's mind blowing what he could do.

 

I linked this to my post earlier.  It's 15 minutes, and it's just amazing.   Over and over and over, broken tackles, shifty moves, and outrunning defenders.   How could he possibly have had that many great plays?   People say, "yeah, but the competition was smaller," and "look at the blocking he had - Paul Brown was genius."   Okay, assume all of that's true.   Just watch how amazing these runs are.  

 

What was his greatest skill?   Well, pretty much everything, but short yardage was mind boggling.   Watch how many of these highlights are  touchdown runs under five yards, splitting tacklers, knocking guys down, refusing to go down.   

 

What Adrian Peterson did on his best day, what Derrick Henry does on his best day, Brown did for nine years. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

He would compete today and be a good starter, but I don't think he would be as dominant as he was in the 60's.

 

He would be Derrick Henry.

He had superior athletic ability to Henry and he’d be a three down back because of that. He would garner multiple All Pro honors and he would be a first ballot HOFer at the position, regardless. 

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He would compete today and be a good starter, but I don't think he would be as dominant as he was in the 60's.

 

He would be Derrick Henry.

Well, who wouldn't want Derrick Henry?   Henry runs more like Brown than anyone I've seen.   Brown was better, but Henry is close.  

 

The only reason Brown might not dominate is that the game is different.   But even that might not be correct, because Brown was a much better receiver than Henry.   The Browns didn't take Brown out of game on third down, because he was the fastest guy on the field and always a threat. Imagine getting Henry catching passes like McCaffrey.  That's what Jim Brown would have been like.  

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

He had superior athletic ability to Henry and he’d be a three down back because of that. He would garner multiple All Pro honors and he would be a first ballot HOFer at the position, regardless. 

What I just said, too.  

 

If you've only seen football from the 90s on, it's hard to understand how good he was.    I mean, the guy led the league in rushing in eight of his nine seasons in the league,  The one year he didn't win the rushing title, he played the entire season with a broken wrist, could only carry the ball in one hand, and couldn't use his other hand for his stiff arm, which was as deadly as Henry.  He finished fourth in rushing that season.   

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

People say, "yeah, but the competition was smaller," and "look at the blocking he had - Paul Brown was genius."   Okay, assume all of that's true.  

 

It's all true.

Remember, when Jim Brown played, football was just a part time job. 

Jim Houston sold insurance, and he said he made considerably more as an insurance agent than he did in the NFL. Paul Warfield sold tires. Chuck Noll worked for a freight company. John Wooton taught math at a school.

 

When you're competing against math teachers, insurance salesman, etc ... you're going to look more dominant than if you compete against NFL defenders whose entire job is to stay as in-shape as possible.

 

I still think Jim Brown would be quite good today, but I do not believe he would be the dominant game-changing player that many remember.

 

It's for this same reason that I find it silly to compare players from before the mid 1970's, to any player today. 

 

[BigPappaPump]

Jim Brown & Walter Payton, the 2 best to ever play the position! RIP brother 

[par73]

Greatest RB (maybe FB player ) of all-time. Did great work for the Civil Rights Movement, but had a troubled personal life. RIP.

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It's all true.

Remember, when Jim Brown played, football was just a part time job. 

Jim Houston sold insurance, and he said he made considerably more as an insurance agent than he did in the NFL. Paul Warfield sold tires. Chuck Noll worked for a freight company. John Wooton taught math at a school.

 

When you're competing against math teachers, insurance salesman, etc ... you're going to look more dominant than if you compete against NFL defenders whose entire job is to stay as in-shape as possible.

 

I still think Jim Brown would be quite good today, but I do not believe he would be the dominant game-changing player that many remember.

 

It's for this same reason that I find it silly to compare players from before the mid 1970's, to any player today. 

 

As I pointed out previously, the idea that players of bygone eras can’t compete, let alone dominate, against today’s superior full time athletes is nearly always true. But there are a handful that could. Jim Brown is simply one of them and I’ll just leave it at that. It’s not worth debating, imo.

[BarleyNY]

A friend of mine used to help organize charity golf outings involving current and former NFL players. He met Jim Brown at one and then saw him a year later at the same event. He walked by Brown, who was talking to a group people. Brown yelled to him and called him by name. “So you don’t stop and say hi, Mark?” Mark told him he didn’t think he’d even remember him. He said Brown couldn’t have been nicer to him.

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

What I just said, too.  

 

If you've only seen football from the 90s on, it's hard to understand how good he was.    I mean, the guy led the league in rushing in eight of his nine seasons in the league,  The one year he didn't win the rushing title, he played the entire season with a broken wrist, could only carry the ball in one hand, and couldn't use his other hand for his stiff arm, which was as deadly as Henry.  He finished fourth in rushing that season.   

People who can’t appreciate the kind of all around athlete that he was, especially at his size, can’t seem to grasp the idea that he could not only play today but that he would be a dominant force at the position as well. Perhaps not the SAME force given today’s diminished reliance on the running game, but he would still dominate the position of RB. He would still garner All Pro and Pro Bowl honors and he would still be HOF worthy. 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

As I pointed out previously, the idea that players of bygone eras can’t compete, let alone dominate, against today’s superior full time athletes is nearly always true. But there are a handful that could. Jim Brown is simply one of them and I’ll just leave it at that. It’s not worth debating, imo.

 

One point that is often overlooked in these types of debates is that bygone era players, if playing today, would have had the advantages of all

the training, equipment, nutrition and knowledge that current players have.  Today's Jim Brown would have been even stronger and faster than

his 60's self.

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, K-9 said:

People who can’t appreciate the kind of all around athlete that he was, especially at his size, can’t seem to grasp the idea that he could not only play today but that he would be a dominant force at the position as well. Perhaps not the SAME force given today’s diminished reliance on the running game, but he would still dominate the position of RB. He would still garner All Pro and Pro Bowl honors and he would still be HOF worthy. 

I think that's correct.  Some of us are really into his story, and if others don't know it, it's hard to understand, as you say.  He was a truly dominant lacrosse player.   He played for a year on the Syracuse basketball team.   He was on the baseball team and the track team and sometimes changed uniforms so that he could play both sports on the same day.  And he was the fastest player in the NFL.   He was a once-in-a-lifetime athlete.  

[OGTEleven]

He was basically the Babe Ruth of football.

[Shaw66]

47 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It's all true.

Remember, when Jim Brown played, football was just a part time job. 

Jim Houston sold insurance, and he said he made considerably more as an insurance agent than he did in the NFL. Paul Warfield sold tires. Chuck Noll worked for a freight company. John Wooton taught math at a school.

 

When you're competing against math teachers, insurance salesman, etc ... you're going to look more dominant than if you compete against NFL defenders whose entire job is to stay as in-shape as possible.

 

I still think Jim Brown would be quite good today, but I do not believe he would be the dominant game-changing player that many remember.

 

It's for this same reason that I find it silly to compare players from before the mid 1970's, to any player today. 

 

It's a fair point.   But that really speaks to the bottom 80% of the league, talent-wise.   The very best players weren't skipping pro football to sell insurance.  They were playing football.   The Warfields, Butkuses, those guys.   The best players in the league were every bit as talented as the best players today (diet and training being equal).   And THOSE players, the best defenders in the league, all said that Brown was otherworldly.  

 

Someone said Brown and Payton were the two best ever.  Maybe so, but Payton entered the league only a half dozen years after Brown left, and the game hadn't changed that much.   I saw them both.   Payton was great; he wasn't Paul Brown.  

 

I'll say it again - he ran like Henry and he caught passes like McCaffrey (or Thurman, if you want to go there).  

[Rico]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Shocked the sports world by retiring immediately following his 9th season. The next year, he was in the limelight again as a member of The Dirty Dozen with Lee Marvin, running across roof tops, dropping grenades onto high ranking Nazis.🤣👍

Dirty Dozen is great. My fav of his though was Slaughter. .

Stella Stevens and him gone in the same year, what a shame.

 

[bigK14094]

I watched him play many times on my grandparents black and white TV....we didn't have one at my house, so Sunday afternoons I was  with the TV.  He was great, and I remember some of his teammates.  Milt Plumb was the QB after Otto Graham.    The first in a line of great Syracuse rb;s.   Ernie Davis, Floyd LIttle...on an on.  RIP JB.

[Buffalo716]

20 minutes ago, OGTEleven said:

He was basically the Babe Ruth of football.

Statically Ruth was even more dominant 

 

in 1921 Ruth hit more home runs by himself than like 60% of MLB teams 

 

by himself 

 

that would be like Brown out rushing 6 teams by himself 

 

i never checked but if brown did that… incredible 

[BillsPride12]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Love to recall when Franco Harris was closing in on one of his rushing records. Brown was vocal how much he despised Franco running out of bounds so much to avoid getting hit and threatened to return almost 2 decades later to stave off Harris’ attempt at the record. Al Davis offered him the opportunity.

CLASSIC!

Likewise I remember when Walter Payton broke the record he said he was happy for him and he respected his game because he didn't ever try to run out of bounds and wasn't afraid of contact.

[Turk71]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Sounds like my house when I was growing up, 👍

Grew up in S Buffalo 6th out of 7 w 4 brothers

My dad finished our basement in '64, put in a small bar and a big rec/tv room. My dad, my brothers and I, and various assortments of grandpas, uncles, cousins, and friends would gather on Sundays for the football on a big b/w console tv. It would get so rowdy down there, my family really likes to laugh and it would get pretty hilarious. I was the 4 year old beer runner. The grandparents, parents, uncles and aunts have all passed on, as well as 2 of my brothers. Hearing that Jim Brown passed brought me immediately back to those basement gatherings that I hadn't thought about for a long time.

It feels good to remember them ❤️

RIP 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Turk71

[Mikie2times]

Brown would have been very good today. His size, speed, and power were well before his time. He accomplished what he did playing between 12 and 14 games. He had 7 season in which he averaged more than 100 yard per game. Walter Payton and OJ had less than half that total. He is one of the true legends. 

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Quite possibly the greatest athlete of all-time.

 

RIP

 

From his Wiki: Perhaps more impressive was his success as a multisport athlete. In addition to his football accomplishments, he excelled in basketball, track, and especially lacrosse. As a sophomore, he was the second-leading scorer for the basketball team (15 ppg), and earned a letter on the track team. In 1955, he finished in fifth place in the National Championship decathlon.[15] His junior year, he averaged 11.3 points in basketball, and was named a second-team All-American in lacrosse. His senior year, he was named a first-team All-American in lacrosse (43 goals in 10 games to rank second in scoring nationally). Brown was so dominant in the game, that lacrosse rules were changed requiring a lacrosse player to keep their stick in constant motion when carrying the ball (instead of holding it close to his body).[16][17] There is currently no rule in lacrosse that requires a player to keep his stick in motion. He is in the Lacrosse Hall of Fame.[18] The JMA Wireless Dome has an 800 square-foot tapestry depicting Brown in football and lacrosse uniforms with the words "Greatest Player Ever".[19]

It’s likely Brown or Jim Thorpe. Sad day when a legend passes, especially one who utilized his influence to push  the progression of both sport and culture. 

[cwater10]

1 of 1.  RIP

[oldmanfan]

Forget just football.  He may be the GOAT for sports in general.  Watching him when I was a kid was something special.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Statically Ruth was even more dominant 

 

in 1921 Ruth hit more home runs by himself than like 60% of MLB teams 

 

by himself 

 

that would be like Brown out rushing 6 teams by himself 

 

i never checked but if brown did that… incredible 

And Ruth was a good pitcher.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

I actually met him once at a restaurant in New Haven, CT while he was there for a Lacrosse Championship Tournament he was invited to. Easy gentleman to talk to with the largest Bodyguard I've ever seen. When he walked in it was like the world just froze in silence. That was the type of presence and aura he put out.

 

RIP.....

Pepes?  Robert Henry’s?  What New Haven restaurant?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

And Ruth was a good pitcher.

He was better than a good pitcher 

 

Lead the major leagues in wins once… was an ERA leader … Complete games leader And lead the majors in shutouts

 

That’s all without one batting accomplishment

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

He had superior athletic ability to Henry and he’d be a three down back because of that. He would garner multiple All Pro honors and he would be a first ballot HOFer at the position, regardless. 

I am a big time fan of Derrick Henry, have been for tears. The big difference between Brown (who I really only saw on tape) and Henry is speed. In addition to being a monster, Brown had break away speed. 

I suppose that the closest comparison to Brown that I ever saw was a young, pre-injury Earl Campbell. I will not make the claim that Earl was as tough as Brown but he was damn close.

Jmo.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Old guy here. Before the Bills, we in Buffalo watched the Browns and Jim Brown. He WAS  the Browns offense. For the opposing defense stopping Jim Brown was the only focus. Greatest running back (although they weren't called that back in the 50s) I have ever seen. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

When I was a kid, I was lucky enough to see him play in a game in Cleveland against the Giants.  I still remember that he looked like the fastest and strongest guy on the field.  I've never seen another back play like him.  It's sad that most people really don't know that much about him.

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Pepes?  Robert Henry’s?  What New Haven restaurant?

Rusty Scupper on Long Wharf.

 

It's been over 12 years since I've been in CT so I'm not sure if it's still there.

[OGTEleven]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Statically Ruth was even more dominant 

 

in 1921 Ruth hit more home runs by himself than like 60% of MLB teams 

 

by himself 

 

that would be like Brown out rushing 6 teams by himself 

 

i never checked but if brown did that… incredible 

My point was partly statistical but more so to emphasize the degree to which they helped put their sport on the map.  Brown’s presence helped move the NFL to a much greater prominence.

 

Ruth did the very same thing.  He did it earlier and not just for baseball but for all of sports.  If there were a Mount Rushmore with one person for each major sport, I think Brown and Gretzky are as easy to choose as Ruth.  The NBA is the only tricky one.  Personally I don’t think I could narrow that down to five choices.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

An astounding fact I’ve read and heard many times- Jim Brown was never tackled for a loss.

 

 

Not true, unfortunately. Makes a truly great legend, but not true. 

 

It really couldn't have been. Sometimes your line just caves in.

 

Here is video evidence:

 

 

 

If you click on the video quadrant you get a better view.

 

Still the best football player in history, IMO. Maybe lacrosse too.

[Buffalo716]

12 minutes ago, OGTEleven said:

My point was partly statistical but more so to emphasize the degree to which they helped put their sport on the map.  Brown’s presence helped move the NFL to a much greater prominence.

 

Ruth did the very same thing.  He did it earlier and not just for baseball but for all of sports.  If there were a Mount Rushmore with one person for each major sport, I think Brown and Gretzky are as easy to choose as Ruth.  The NBA is the only tricky one.  Personally I don’t think I could narrow that down to five choices.

Basically agree on everything