UDFA signings 2023

[khlax3]

51 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB - Gilliam 

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown 

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Gouriage

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Bernard, Klein, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Jackson, Benford, Neal

S - Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

If everyone stays healthy through camp I think you nailed it. 
 

I think Spector, Morris, and Doyle are next in line to make the team

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, khlax3 said:

If everyone stays healthy through camp I think you nailed it. 
 

I think Spector, Morris, and Doyle are next in line to make the team

 

Morris was #54 and my last cut. Ultimately I decided that with Kincaid added, Gilliam could cover both FB and blocking on the line as a "TE" in certain packages that have Harris blocking in the backfield. I'd hope we could get Morris back on the Practice Squad, in the event of an injury to Knox, Kincaid, or Gilliam.

 

Doyle having torn his ACL completely (as opposed to Von's partial tear and partial repair) and playing on it for an entire game on 9/27/22 - I imagine he'll start the year on the PUP.

 

Spector is simply odd man out. Even Dodson was #53 for me and I had a scenario where we only kept 5 LB's and kept Morris. Ultimately, there's no room for Spector.

 

We won't keep more than 6 LB's and he can't make it above any of the 6. Milano, Bernard and Williams (2 3rd Rounders), Klein, Dodson, and Matakevitch (ST Captain) all take priority. Much like Morris, I think we'd try and get Spector back for the PS.

 

I could foresee (and in some cases borderline expect) the following scenarios that would change the roster in its current state:

 

- Bates is traded for a pick and Boettger or Broeker is the final OG.

 

- Another veteran OT being signed and Gouraige is off the 53.

 

- Another Edge Rusher added and Basham is traded for a pick.

Edited May 3, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[The_Ripster]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam 

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown 

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Gouriage

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Bernard, Klein, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Jackson, Benford, Neal

S - Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

Hot take: that minicamp invitee QB Logan Bonner makes the team over Kyle Allen 

[WideNine]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:03 PM, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Just like the guy who posted he's been dying for Beane to Draft a "big tub of goo" DT for years - positions like these are a thing of the past. The game has gotten much more complex and the players are much more athletic.

 

Maybe not a tub of goo, but I would take a Jeffrey Simmons or Quinnen Williams, and Vita Vea may not be a chiseled piece of marble, but I guarantee we would love him manning the middle of our DL.

There is a place for those guys that can anchor and force double-teams. I was so excited when we picked up Dareus as he had all the tools coming out of school and had all the upside to be that guy the Bills could build their D-line around... the dude set this franchise back a ways.

[Sierra Foothills]

2 hours ago, WideNine said:

Maybe not a tub of goo, but I would take a Jeffrey Simmons or Quinnen Williams, and Vita Vea may not be a chiseled piece of marble, but I guarantee we would love him manning the middle of our DL.
There is a place for those guys that can anchor and force double-teams. I was so excited when we picked up Dareus as he had all the tools coming out of school and had all the upside to be that guy the Bills could build their D-line around... the dude set this franchise back a ways.

 

There was a time where guys like Refrigerator Perry, Ted Washington, Sam Adams, Pat Williams, Gilbert Brown, Nate Newton etc populated the NFL.

 

All were great athletes in their own right but also just massive and not necessarily sporting an optimal muscle to fat ratio.

 

It seems like you see fewer of those types of players these days. The big guys nowadays seem more like the guys you mentioned along with Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis, Donkey Kong, etc.

 

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

There was a time where guys like Refrigerator Perry, Ted Washington, Sam Adams, Pat Williams, Gilbert Brown, Nate Newton etc populated the NFL.

 

All were great athletes in their own right but also just massive and not necessarily sporting an optimal muscle to fat ratio.

 

It seems like you see fewer of those types of players these days. The big guys nowadays seem more like the guys you mentioned along with Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis, Donkey Kong, etc.

 

These Bills could use vintage Ted Washington.  Those Bills defenses were tough.  And Washington was a beast

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Morris was #54 and my last cut. Ultimately I decided that with Kincaid added, Gilliam could cover both FB and blocking on the line as a "TE" in certain packages that have Harris blocking in the backfield. I'd hope we could get Morris back on the Practice Squad, in the event of an injury to Knox, Kincaid, or Gilliam.

 

Doyle having torn his ACL completely (as opposed to Von's partial tear and partial repair) and playing on it for an entire game on 9/27/22 - I imagine he'll start the year on the PUP.

 

Spector is simply odd man out. Even Dodson was #53 for me and I had a scenario where we only kept 5 LB's and kept Morris. Ultimately, there's no room for Spector.

 

We won't keep more than 6 LB's and he can't make it above any of the 6. Milano, Bernard and Williams (2 3rd Rounders), Klein, Dodson, and Matakevitch (ST Captain) all take priority. Much like Morris, I think we'd try and get Spector back for the PS.

 

I could foresee (and in some cases borderline expect) the following scenarios that would change the roster in its current state:

 

- Bates is traded for a pick and Boettger or Broeker is the final OG.

 

- Another veteran OT being signed and Gouraige is off the 53.

 

- Another Edge Rusher added and Basham is traded for a pick.

 

I'm not sure Latavius Murray makes it. I think the Bills signed him as insurance but they almost never draft 4 running backs, and Cook, Harris and Hines are all dressing unless Harris's health issues resurface. Are you really retaining a 33 year old running back as a non-dressing roster member at the expense of a young guy you like who plays teams? Q Morris played 75% of STs snaps this past season. Who replaces those snaps? You are not running Kincaid or Knox out there to do that job. 

 

I also agree with @MrEpsYtown - if Dodson doesn't win the LB job he might not be here, likewise AJ Klein (who they picked up off the street last season). 

 

I'd go no Murray and (optimistically) no Klein and replace them with Morris and Spector. I expect Morris to make it. Spector is more of a 50/50 proposition.

 

Obviously a chance Von starts on PUP (but I hope not). 

[boyst]

Who was our last udfa to come in and make any type of contribution beyond a couple games?

[Solomon Grundy]

38 minutes ago, Pete said:

These Bills could use vintage Ted Washington.  Those Bills defenses were tough.  And Washington was a beast

Pat Williams too

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, boyst said:

Who was our last udfa to come in and make any type of contribution beyond a couple games?

 

The last one to become a regular starter was Levi. We have had others make the roster in depth roles - Gilliam, Dodson, Morris on the current roster. Robert Foster in the recent past plus Justin Zimmer and Ike Boettger (who were Bills UDFAs, left then came back and made our roster and started some games). But the last two that I can remember as Bills UDFAs who legit won starting jobs are Levi Wallce and Nickel Roby-Coleman. 

 

Ryan Bates was also an UDFA who the Bills traded for off the Eagles during his first training camp. 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by GunnerBill

[CNYfan]

The draft was 17 rounds at one time.  Johnny Unitas was, famously, a 17th round draft selection.  Many players selected after the 7th round would make rosters.  House Ballard was an 11th round draft choice.   I know there are many others in the era before the Draft was shortened.  

[CorkScrewHill]

Woo Governor did not declare for the draft and therefore is not able to sign a free agent deal .. source is Woo Governor’s twitter account

 

 

[Shaw66]

I'm amused by how good the UDFAs look on paper.   Some really good looking resumes.   

 

I think it has to do with how good the 53-man roster looks.   I've gotten used to seeing a lot of talent on the field and roaming the sidelines for the Bills, so I think I tend to see the UDFAs the same way.   

 

This year's list looks like guys who, if they don't make the 53, are going to be plucked by other teams.   Probably not true, but it feels that way. 

 

I think part of it is that guys who have had some serious success in college and don't get drafted want to sign with playoff contenders.  Their agents tell them that it will be tough to make the rosters on those teams, but they don't care, for a couple of reasons:  First, they have extreme confidence.   Second, they know that if they don't make it, they'll still have options (PS or go to a lesser team).  Third, they want the coaches on the best teams to see them, so that when they move on to another team, if they've made a good impression, they will have a shot come back a year or two later.  

 

Gunner's post showed how unlikely it is that one of these guys will make it, but it really isn't about whether they'll make it this year.   It's about what they might become in a year or two, and it's about having a quality guy on the PS for a late-season callup for a game or two.  

[Motorin']

17 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

QB - Allen, Allen

RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray

FB/TE - Gilliam 

WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter

TE - Kincaid, Knox

OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown 

Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Gouraige

 

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham

DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle

LB - Milano, Bernard, Klein, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch

CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Jackson, Benford, Neal

S - Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin

ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

 

Von starts the year on the PUP list, right?

 

And if the happens, do they roll with 4 DE's, or does that open the door for someone like Kingsley Jonathon to make the 53?

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Motorin'

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Woo Governor did not declare for the draft and therefore is not able to sign a free agent deal .. source is Woo Governor’s twitter account

 

 

 

[Ralonzo]

34 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Von starts the year on the PUP list, right?

 

And if the happens, do they roll with 4 DE's, or does that open the door for someone like Kingsley Jonathon to make the 53?

 

 

Kingsley Jonathan was Von Lite in preseason last year, his speed move could not be handled by 2's. He's super bendy, he could have a legit shot to stick. Would solve a lot of defensive problems if he and Spector stepped it up this year.

[ColoradoBills]

22 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't think Siran Neal is going anywhere this year.  Someone needs to take his job as the dime back, and we may spend more time in different defensive formations.

McKenzie, who was legit fast, always said that Siran Neal was the fastest guy on the team despite his 4.56 pajama olympics time.

 

I think it's good, and reasonable, that we're apparently moving on and replacing 3 ST regulars in Johnson, Kumerow, and Jones.  So keeping 2 in Matakevich and Neal is not unreasonable.

 

The thing is Siran did not play much at all, even with all the injuries with the DBs last season.

Neal only had 63 defensive snaps last year.  That's less than 4 snaps a game.

His worth is strictly STs.

[Sierra Foothills]

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The thing is Siran did not play much at all, even with all the injuries with the DBs last season.

Neal only had 63 defensive snaps last year.  That's less than 4 snaps a game.

His worth is strictly STs.

 

You know we had so many injuries in the defensive backfield last year that I don't really recall who the primary dime defensive back was.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

You know we had so many injuries in the defensive backfield last year that I don't really recall who the primary dime defensive back was.

 

 

With all the injuries I don't think there was a "primary" dime.

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Von starts the year on the PUP list, right?

 

And if the happens, do they roll with 4 DE's, or does that open the door for someone like Kingsley Jonathon to make the 53?

 

Not a chance. He didn't completely tear his ACL and need a reconstruction like Tre.

 

He had a partial tear and a repair. He's on pace to not miss any time. If they're overly cautious, he'd just miss a game or two. But from the sounds of Beane and him, he'll be ready Week 1.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

You know we had so many injuries in the defensive backfield last year that I don't really recall who the primary dime defensive back was.

 

 

 

It was Neal.  The thing is we didn't play dime that often - if at all.

 

They also substituted Neal in as a "heavy nickel" instead of Johnson against some running teams, with some good success.

[CorkScrewHill]

PFF has a fuller list

 

BUFFALO BILLS

RB Jordan Mims, Fresno State

WR Tyrell Shavers, San Diego State

WR Jalen Wayne, South Alabama

OT Richard Gouraige, Florida

OT Noah Henderson, East Carolina

DI DJ Dale, Alabama

 

Minicamp

RB Isaiah Bowser, UCF

OG Josh Donovan, Arizona

DI KD Hill, Ole Miss

DI Taron Vincent, Ohio State

LB James Patterson, Buffalo

S Joe Foucha, LSU

S Javon Scruggs, Liberty

S Morgan Vest, Northern Arizona

LS Aaron Bolinsky, Syracuse

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-udfa-tracker-undrafted-free-agent-signings-all-32-teams

[AuntieEm]

On 4/29/2023 at 8:46 PM, Von Braun said:

Sadly, many here won't know to whom you're referring. Got his big break on special teams (ofc everyone makes fun of this) blocking a few kicks and never looked back! 

 

Talking about Jason Peters here correct?

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by AuntieEm

[1st&ten]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm amused by how good the UDFAs look on paper.   Some really good looking resumes.   

 

I think it has to do with how good the 53-man roster looks.   I've gotten used to seeing a lot of talent on the field and roaming the sidelines for the Bills, so I think I tend to see the UDFAs the same way.   

 

This year's list looks like guys who, if they don't make the 53, are going to be plucked by other teams.   Probably not true, but it feels that way. 

 

I think part of it is that guys who have had some serious success in college and don't get drafted want to sign with playoff contenders.  Their agents tell them that it will be tough to make the rosters on those teams, but they don't care, for a couple of reasons:  First, they have extreme confidence.   Second, they know that if they don't make it, they'll still have options (PS or go to a lesser team).  Third, they want the coaches on the best teams to see them, so that when they move on to another team, if they've made a good impression, they will have a shot come back a year or two later.  

 

Gunner's post showed how unlikely it is that one of these guys will make it, but it really isn't about whether they'll make it this year.   It's about what they might become in a year or two, and it's about having a quality guy on the PS for a late-season callup for a game or two.  

I agree, I always get excited about many of the UDFA signings but very few ever pan out. I'm not up on how all the PS rules work but it seems like your best prospects get pilfered. I'd like to see a minor league arrangement with the CFL & the XFL where each NFL team could send like 5 players to these leagues & pay part of their salary. I mentioned the XFL because I haven't watched a whole lot of games yet but the few I tune into were quite good. One had 2 ex Bills  head coaches.

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Not a chance. He didn't completely tear his ACL and need a reconstruction like Tre.

 

He had a partial tear and a repair. He's on pace to not miss any time. If they're overly cautious, he'd just miss a game or two. But from the sounds of Beane and him, he'll be ready Week 1.

 

I'll wait and see. According to Von he was going to be ready to come back and finish the year. 

 

I admittedly haven't heard Beane on the subject. But he's not 24 anymore. Give him an extra 6-8 weeks to get ready for the second half of the season if there's any question what so ever. 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

PFF has a fuller list

 

BUFFALO BILLS

RB Jordan Mims, Fresno State

WR Tyrell Shavers, San Diego State

WR Jalen Wayne, South Alabama

OT Richard Gouraige, Florida

OT Noah Henderson, East Carolina

DI DJ Dale, Alabama

 

Minicamp

RB Isaiah Bowser, UCF

OG Josh Donovan, Arizona

DI KD Hill, Ole Miss

DI Taron Vincent, Ohio State

LB James Patterson, Buffalo

S Joe Foucha, LSU

S Javon Scruggs, Liberty

S Morgan Vest, Northern Arizona

LS Aaron Bolinsky, Syracuse

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-udfa-tracker-undrafted-free-agent-signings-all-32-teams

 

Wow, @KingBoots8 is really slacking!!!

 

 

 

😛

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, 1st&ten said:

I agree, I always get excited about many of the UDFA signings but very few ever pan out. I'm not up on how all the PS rules work but it seems like your best prospects get pilfered. I'd like to see a minor league arrangement with the CFL & the XFL where each NFL team could send like 5 players to these leagues & pay part of their salary. I mentioned the XFL because I haven't watched a whole lot of games yet but the few I tune into were quite good. One had 2 ex Bills  head coaches.

 

XFL has really been doing well in St Louis, where a considerable fan following for football remains along with a sense of disgruntlement over how the departure was handled, which kept fans from following the Rams after their move to LA

 

Fans show up to the games to tailgate and watch in person, and the TV viewship is also high

 

Three guesses who the Battlehawks QB was.... (hint: Bills connection)

 

[Dr. Who]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

XFL has really been doing well in St Louis, where a considerable fan following for football remains along with a sense of disgruntlement over how the departure was handled, which kept fans from following the Rams after their move to LA

 

Fans show up to the games to tailgate and watch in person, and the TV viewship is also high

 

Three guesses who the Battlehawks QB was.... (hint: Bills connection)

 

I cheated and looked it up. Without really watching I was rooting for the Houston team because of Wade Phillips. Battlehawks and Sea Dragons are fun names.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Dr. Who

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

XFL has really been doing well in St Louis, where a considerable fan following for football remains along with a sense of disgruntlement over how the departure was handled, which kept fans from following the Rams after their move to LA

 

Fans show up to the games to tailgate and watch in person, and the TV viewship is also high

 

Three guesses who the Battlehawks QB was.... (hint: Bills connection)

 

AJ McCarron

 

Josh Johnson 

 

cardalw jones 

 

 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

AJ McCarron

 

Josh Johnson 

 

cardalw jones 

 

 

It's the first.

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

AJ McCarron

 

Josh Johnson 

 

cardalw jones 

 

 

 

AJ McCarron. 

I almost swerved into a guardrail first time I saw his face and name on a giant billboard advertising the team.

 

They also had Austin Proehl at WR

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Beck Water

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

AJ McCarron.  I almost swerved into a guardrail when I saw his face and name on a giant billboard advertising the team.

Good for him 

 

face of the xfl 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Good for him 

 

face of the xfl 

 

LOL.  The way he talked when he was here I sort of expected him to be driving a racecar by now.

 

Maybe that didn't work out for him, Maybe his wifey talked him out of that, or maybe he just loves Ball and can't quit it.

[KingBoots8]

2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Wow, @KingBoots8 is really slacking!!!

 

 

 

😛

Hey my tracker I was following had a few this one didn’t so I call it a wash 😂

[Augie]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Not a chance. He didn't completely tear his ACL and need a reconstruction like Tre.

 

He had a partial tear and a repair. He's on pace to not miss any time. If they're overly cautious, he'd just miss a game or two. But from the sounds of Beane and him, he'll be ready Week 1.

 

I’ll defer to anyone with better medical knowledge, but ACL surgery is ACL surgery. My son had it in HS. Von had a partial tear, but there’s no way to patch it back. It was going to tear, so they just went ahead and replaced it with a patella, hamstring or donor graft. 

 

ACL’s are not repaired, they are replaced. The biggest difference is associated damage, especially meniscus which may need additional surgery. The MCL just heals itself if that’s damaged. 

 

Von is a man of discipline, drive and competitiveness. I think he’ll be back when we need him, and he will be a difference maker. Super Bowl MVP part Deux???   😋

[balln]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Not a chance. He didn't completely tear his ACL and need a reconstruction like Tre.

 

He had a partial tear and a repair. He's on pace to not miss any time. If they're overly cautious, he'd just miss a game or two. But from the sounds of Beane and him, he'll be ready Week 1.

There’s no such thing as a repair in the competitive athlete. The reconstruction is the repair. 
 

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’ll defer to anyone with better medical knowledge, but ACL surgery is ACL surgery. My son had it in HS. Von had a partial tear, but there’s no way to patch it back. It was going to tear, so they just went ahead and replaced it with a patella, hamstring or donor graft. 

 

ACL’s are not repaired, they are replaced. The biggest difference is associated damage, especially meniscus which may need additional surgery. The MCL just heals itself if that’s damaged. 

 

Von is a man of discipline, drive and competitiveness. I think he’ll be back when we need him, and he will be a difference maker. Super Bowl MVP part Deux???   😋

Correct

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’ll defer to anyone with better medical knowledge, but ACL surgery is ACL surgery. My son had it in HS. Von had a partial tear, but there’s no way to patch it back. It was going to tear, so they just went ahead and replaced it with a patella, hamstring or donor graft. 

 

ACL’s are not repaired, they are replaced. The biggest difference is associated damage, especially meniscus which may need additional surgery. The MCL just heals itself if that’s damaged. 

 

Von is a man of discipline, drive and competitiveness. I think he’ll be back when we need him, and he will be a difference maker. Super Bowl MVP part Deux???   😋

The difference if I recollect correctly is that holes drilled in the bone for a previous surgery were still available to use in the new surgery. Apparently this is helpful and lessens recovery time. But my PhD is in the humanities, so this may all be hearsay.

[balln]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

The difference if I recollect correctly is that holes drilled in the bone for a previous surgery were still available to use in the new surgery. Apparently this is helpful and lessens recovery time. But my PhD is in the humanities, so this may all be hearsay.

Not necessarily. If the position of the holes is good maybe. Usually when you do a revision you bone graft the holes. Let them heal and redo in a second surgery.

 

prob just used an allograft (cadaver tendon) and a tightrope internal brace (rope/suture) But healing still isn’t necessarily faster 

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, balln said:

Not necessarily. If the position of the holes is good maybe. Usually when you do a revision you bone graft the holes. Let them heal and redo in a second surgery.

 

prob just used an allograft (cadaver tendon) and a tightrope internal brace (rope/suture) But healing still isn’t necessarily faster 

I read this in an article discussing Von Miller's specific surgery. I cannot remember the author so I am unsure how credible the information, but supposedly this was part of Miller's reason for optimism regarding a quicker return than might be expected.

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I read this in an article discussing Von Miller's specific surgery. I cannot remember the author so I am unsure how credible the information, but supposedly this was part of Miller's reason for optimism regarding a quicker return than might be expected.

It’s not. Trust me. 
 

it’s quicker recovery than two stage surgery. But that’s rare nowadays as usually the professional athletes have ideal tunnel placement