Blazman11 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Too strong to say he never deserved a roster spot but Aaron Schobel was never someone I was a fan of. Always touted by the announcers as a big time pass rusher and I would never see him show up when needed. Anecdotally his sacks seem to always come in garbage time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Blazman11 said: Too strong to say he never deserved a roster spot but Aaron Schobel was never someone I was a fan of. Always touted by the announcers as a big time pass rusher and I would never see him show up when needed. Anecdotally his sacks seem to always come in garbage time. On a team full of players that were mediocre at best, an average/good player was kind of a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 57 minutes ago, Rico said: Brain Dead Drew Bledsoe OT Mike "Puddinhead' Williams and the Anderson brothers: Big Bad Bennie & Tiny Tim After the first season in Buffalo, it seemed like: Drew 'Frank N. Stein' Bledsoe. Drew 'ankles and knees of stone' Bledsoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 6 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Absolutely. I came back to edit my post to add Sweeney. At least he didn’t rob the Bills while doing nothing like Kroft did. I’d add him too. I have mixed feelings with Kroft, when they actually threw to him he caught the balls, but TEs are notoriously underutilized in our offensive game plans as downfield targets. Even Knox we should be trying to use a lot more to move the chains, but Allen's focus tends to lean towards his WRs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreadlox Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Jordan Gay. Kickoff specialist. That one always bothered me. Nothing against him personally, but a roster spot for a kickoff specialist? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Aaron Maybin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 20 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: Kelvin Benjamin *** sack of *** still the best answer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 @Mr. WEO apparently the Bills thought Lil Dirty was overpaid as well considering they just cut him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, mrags said: @Mr. WEO apparently the Bills thought Lil Dirty was overpaid as well considering they just cut him. I told you this would happen yesterday... Mr. WEO Community Member 41.2k Posted 17 hours ago Listening to Beane's pressor, 2 things seemed likely 1. the were never going to re-sign Edmunds. When they didn't last year (for likely much less than 18 per), that was basically it. He said the 18 million average was too much this year... 2. McKenzie is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Did anyone say Cam Lewis yet? He gets my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Mantis_Toboggan Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Chris Kelsay… dude just epitomized the Bills of that era. I think I was more shocked when they re-upped Kelsay than when the team signed T.O. or “Super Mario”. Re-signing Kelsay was just waiving the white flag saying to the fans “we’re fine with 7-9, and you should be too”… I believe this was also around the time of the mega free agent splash that captivated the football world known as Derrick Dockery, another strong candidate for this list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schick Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Demetrus Bell...or did he change his name to something else? One of those "project" guys that was given every chance in the world and never did squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Geez, what a s#itty topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 On 3/16/2023 at 12:11 PM, Jim said: My answer is Tommy Sweeney every day of the week. What exactly has he ever contributed to the team outside of being friends with Josh Allen and Dawson Knox? I feel like the only time we ever see him lately is if he’s sitting at a Sabres game with the guys who actually play a role on the team. That play against the Pats where he took a classic and perfect Allen to Diggs bomb off the books says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 On 3/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Mr. WEO said: McKenzie has made 5.9 million over 5 seasons with the Bills. In 2023, he would account for under 8% of the total WR annual salary for the team. For that money last year, he accounted for 20% of the TDs scored by WRs, 24% of targets and 19% of catches. That's "extremely overpaid"? He also created 30 first downs last season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 #1 The Andre Smith roster spot. May as well have put a fan on the roster. #2 Never have understood this team's fascination with Taiwan Jones. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said: Chris Kelsay… dude just epitomized the Bills of that era. I think I was more shocked when they re-upped Kelsay than when the team signed T.O. or “Super Mario”. Re-signing Kelsay was just waiving the white flag saying to the fans “we’re fine with 7-9, and you should be too”… I believe this was also around the time of the mega free agent splash that captivated the football world known as Derrick Dockery, another strong candidate for this list. Mark anderson! 4 years 20 million. He played what 5 games? Merriman... 2 seasons... 2 sacks. 20 hours ago, Big Turk said: Aaron Maybin. Seems like a nice guy, but he didn't want to be a good football player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 I'm more of a fan of positive topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 There is only one best answer to this question: TAIWAN JONES. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 On 3/16/2023 at 4:36 PM, Mr. WEO said: McKenzie has made 5.9 million over 5 seasons with the Bills. In 2023, he would account for under 8% of the total WR annual salary for the team. For that money last year, he accounted for 20% of the TDs scored by WRs, 24% of targets and 19% of catches. That's "extremely overpaid"? The problem is you did that facts thing. This is a thread for feelings. And boy do we have a lot of feelings around here. 17 hours ago, mrags said: @Mr. WEO apparently the Bills thought Lil Dirty was overpaid as well considering they just cut him. No. They though they had upgraded. That is different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: The problem is you did that facts thing. This is a thread for feelings. And boy do we have a lot of feelings around here. No. They though they had upgraded. That is different. No. They thought the contract of McKenzie was too much for what they were getting out of him so they HAD to upgrade. They know this new guy is going to be an upgrade so they flat out released McKenzie to save a measly 2m. If they thought he was even worth that much they would have just brought him into camp and let him fight it out another year for a Roster spot. But they know he wouldn’t make the cut. Because they don’t believe in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, mrags said: No. They thought the contract of McKenzie was too much for what they were getting out of him so they HAD to upgrade. They know this new guy is going to be an upgrade so they flat out released McKenzie to save a measly 2m. If they thought he was even worth that much they would have just brought him into camp and let him fight it out another year for a Roster spot. But they know he wouldn’t make the cut. Because they don’t believe in him. They structured McKenzie's contract in a very specific way last spring for a reason. The two options were he did enough as the starting slot in 2022 to be here in 2023 and if that was the case his money went up. Or he didn't and they would have to upgrade and in that scenario the contract was escapable. The only scenarion in which he was back in 2023 was as the starting slot. Once it was clear that wasn't the case he was going to be gone. And they planned for that last spring. So, sure they didn't think he was worth his 2023 hit as a backup. But the question was always about starter status not value for money. The money was secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: They structured McKenzie's contract in a very specific way last spring for a reason. The two options were he did enough as the starting slot in 2022 to be here in 2023 and if that was the case his money went up. Or he didn't and they would have to upgrade and in that scenario the contract was escapable. The only scenarion in which he was back in 2023 was as the starting slot. Once it was clear that wasn't the case he was going to be gone. And they planned for that last spring. So, sure they didn't think he was worth his 2023 hit as a backup. But the question was always about starter status not value for money. The money was secondary. The statement I made, was that he ducks and not Worth the money they are paying him. That statement hasn’t changed. And the Bills apparently agreed with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 1 hour ago, mrags said: The statement I made, was that he ducks and not Worth the money they are paying him. That statement hasn’t changed. And the Bills apparently agreed with it. It might not have changed. Doesn't make it true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It might not have changed. Doesn't make it true. Um. Actually it does make it true. The Bills cut him. They believed he was not good enough to be in this roster. Plain and simple. That was the assignment of this topic from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: They structured McKenzie's contract in a very specific way last spring for a reason. The two options were he did enough as the starting slot in 2022 to be here in 2023 and if that was the case his money went up. Or he didn't and they would have to upgrade and in that scenario the contract was escapable. The only scenarion in which he was back in 2023 was as the starting slot. Once it was clear that wasn't the case he was going to be gone. And they planned for that last spring. So, sure they didn't think he was worth his 2023 hit as a backup. But the question was always about starter status not value for money. The money was secondary. Which this was very smart by Beane to do that but my thing is he had already show'd him what he was & they still signed him over the likes of a player that had much more out put & chemistry in the offense like Beasley which in a way makes me think WTH were they thinking ? 1 Game against the Pats is what bringing him back was based on . Like Oliver he is a average player that has flashes but is not consistent with those flashes & the Bills seem to allow those guys more reps than they do others that could be more production for the team . They not only do that with Mckenzie they have done that with Duke Johnson, Hodgins, Breida, Moss, Morris, Gilliam, & others which there have been some of these i just mentioned that have shown them selves to be very useful in the scheme but used very sparingly even Motor was in this group . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 20 hours ago, Kaenon said: I'm more of a fan of positive topics. How odd that you should pop in to this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, mrags said: Um. Actually it does make it true. The Bills cut him. They believed he was not good enough to be in this roster. Plain and simple. That was the assignment of this topic from the beginning. Believed he was not good enough to be on the roster - correct. That is my point. This is about is Isaiah McKenzie good enough to be our starting slot. And the answer was no, they wanted to upgrade. It wasn't about cost per production. It was about thst primary question - is he our guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Believed he was not good enough to be on the roster - correct. That is my point. This is about is Isaiah McKenzie good enough to be our starting slot. And the answer was no, they wanted to upgrade. It wasn't about cost per production. It was about thst primary question - is he our guy. My point from the original post. Has been that he is overpaid for what he provides to the roster. He doesn’t deserve to be on the roster. The Bills have agreed with me in both points. Not only is he no longer in the roster, they cut him for a very minimal 2m in savings to the cap. If they really thought he was worth it they would have at least kept him until camp and let him battle it out again. They didn’t because they know he won’t win a roster spot because he isn’t any good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, T master said: Which this was very smart by Beane to do that but my thing is he had already show'd him what he was & they still signed him over the likes of a player that had much more out put & chemistry in the offense like Beasley which in a way makes me think WTH were they thinking ? 1 Game against the Pats is what bringing him back was based on . Like Oliver he is a average player that has flashes but is not consistent with those flashes & the Bills seem to allow those guys more reps than they do others that could be more production for the team . They not only do that with Mckenzie they have done that with Duke Johnson, Hodgins, Breida, Moss, Morris, Gilliam, & others which there have been some of these i just mentioned that have shown them selves to be very useful in the scheme but used very sparingly even Motor was in this group . On para 1 - Beasley was washed. That wasn't about McKenzie over Beasley. It was Beasley being done. And everything we have seen since in Tampa and Buffalo confirms Beane got that right. Then they had to ask how do we fill the gap and they gave themselves 3 options, a guy they knew in Isaiah who they thought might step up, a cheap vet as a high floor option in Crowder and a draft pick - Shakir. McKenzie proved the best of the 3 because he won the job in camp, then Crowder broke down and Shakir really started slow and struggled to separate despite playing a 3rd of the offensive snaps. On para 2 - Oliver is one of the best players on the Bills defense and the games he was healthy for this year he jumped off the screen week after week if you know what you are watching. His play in that Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit run was exceptional. Now he was beat up a lot last year and he hasn't been consistent enough for a top 10 pick but he is absolutely worth the money he is getting on the option this year. However, if they could trade him for an offensive piece I am for that as I am not sure he is worth the $$s that he will likely get in FA - similar to Edmunds. I wouldn't trade him for picks in this draft because this draft sucks and you won't be able to fill the hole with an equivalent player. Para 3 - I don't understand what you are saying? Is this players you think they have given too much time to or not enough? 1 minute ago, mrags said: My point from the original post. Has been that he is overpaid for what he provides to the roster. He doesn’t deserve to be on the roster. The Bills have agreed with me in both points. Not only is he no longer in the roster, they cut him for a very minimal 2m in savings to the cap. If they really thought he was worth it they would have at least kept him until camp and let him battle it out again. They didn’t because they know he won’t win a roster spot because he isn’t any good. They didn't because they already have their 2nd slot on the roster a player they invested a draft pick on last April. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: On para 1 - Beasley was washed. That wasn't about McKenzie over Beasley. It was Beasley being done. And everything we have seen since in Tampa and Buffalo confirms Beane got that right. Then they had to ask how do we fill the gap and they gave themselves 3 options, a guy they knew in Isaiah who they thought might step up, a cheap vet as a high floor option in Crowder and a draft pick - Shakir. McKenzie proved the best of the 3 because he won the job in camp, then Crowder broke down and Shakir really started slow and struggled to separate despite playing a 3rd of the offensive snaps. On para 2 - Oliver is one of the best players on the Bills defense and the games he was healthy for this year he jumped off the screen week after week if you know what you are watching. His play in that Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit run was exceptional. Now he was beat up a lot last year and he hasn't been consistent enough for a top 10 pick but he is absolutely worth the money he is getting on the option this year. However, if they could trade him for an offensive piece I am for that as I am not sure he is worth the $$s that he will likely get in FA - similar to Edmunds. I wouldn't trade him for picks in this draft because this draft sucks and you won't be able to fill the hole with an equivalent player. Para 3 - I don't understand what you are saying? Is this players you think they have given too much time to or not enough? They didn't because they already have their 2nd slot on the roster a player they invested a draft pick on last April. Yet they only have 4 WR on the roster as we speak. I guarantee they pay some FA more than 2m the amount they saved by cutting Lil Terrible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, mrags said: Yet they only have 4 WR on the roster as we speak. I guarantee they pay some FA more than 2m the amount they saved by cutting Lil Terrible You think they are going to sign another free agent slot receiver and pay them more than $2m in 2023? I don't. They might sign an outside guy (I ***** hope they do) but that is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: You think they are going to sign another free agent slot receiver and pay them more than $2m in 2023? I don't. They might sign an outside guy (I ***** hope they do) but that is irrelevant. I think the Bills know that McKenzie was not a slot WR. Not good enough at least. Which he proved this past season. Not only did they already have a guy in Shakir they drafted, they picked up a McKenzie clone to battle it out. point is, they didn’t think McK was good enough. And because of the minimal savings and still a need for WRs on the roster, they apparently thought he wasn’t worth the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, mrags said: I think the Bills know that McKenzie was not a slot WR. Not good enough at least. Which he proved this past season. Not only did they already have a guy in Shakir they drafted, they picked up a McKenzie clone to battle it out. point is, they didn’t think McK was good enough. And because of the minimal savings and still a need for WRs on the roster, they apparently thought he wasn’t worth the money. They didn't think he was good enough. The second part was about roster makeup not money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 On 3/16/2023 at 9:15 AM, Virgil said: Chris Watson........ Kelsay Will AJE become the next Chris Kelsay? I guess it's the money wasted on STers who hardly contribute on offense or defense that drives me nuts. Lewis, Neal, Kumerow, Matakevich etc. Every single ST player not named Bass or Martin should be on a minimum contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: On para 1 - Beasley was washed. That wasn't about McKenzie over Beasley. It was Beasley being done. And everything we have seen since in Tampa and Buffalo confirms Beane got that right. Then they had to ask how do we fill the gap and they gave themselves 3 options, a guy they knew in Isaiah who they thought might step up, a cheap vet as a high floor option in Crowder and a draft pick - Shakir. McKenzie proved the best of the 3 because he won the job in camp, then Crowder broke down and Shakir really started slow and struggled to separate despite playing a 3rd of the offensive snaps. On para 2 - Oliver is one of the best players on the Bills defense and the games he was healthy for this year he jumped off the screen week after week if you know what you are watching. His play in that Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit run was exceptional. Now he was beat up a lot last year and he hasn't been consistent enough for a top 10 pick but he is absolutely worth the money he is getting on the option this year. However, if they could trade him for an offensive piece I am for that as I am not sure he is worth the $$s that he will likely get in FA - similar to Edmunds. I wouldn't trade him for picks in this draft because this draft sucks and you won't be able to fill the hole with an equivalent player. Para 3 - I don't understand what you are saying? Is this players you think they have given too much time to or not enough? They didn't because they already have their 2nd slot on the roster a player they invested a draft pick on last April. Beasley's last full season with the Bills he put up 700 yds & in 2021 the Bills 3rd down conversion rate was 3rd best in the league which i would bet most of those came from Beasley so to say he was washed up is ridiculous most of his path came from having a strong opinion & voicing it . Put his numbers his last year up against Mckenzies any year & Beasley by the numbers was a much better player to keep even on the down side of his career . Then if you put into the equation the chemistry & trust that Josh has in him Bease was hands down the better of the 2 players to keep . Add to that when given the chance to be the main slot receiver & prove his worth to the team & the offense after the injury they realized he wasn't the guy they thought so they brought Bealey back because of the afore mentioned reasons . But you have your opinion based on your opinion i'm basing mine on his production, chemistry, & the numbers . I won't totally disagree about Oliver but in the games you mentioned was take into consideration the fact of what caliber of player he was playing against (if it was a #1 talent okay) There are other players taken with later picks that have proven to be better than his draft status . Then with Oliver who was playing next to him & how they were playing if it was Phillips & he was healthy Oliver was better because more attention had to be paid to him or Jones but on a island i don't see where Oliver is as good as you seem to think yes he has to be accounted for but he's no John Randal which was the same size & played the same position . And i have never seen Oliver take over a game which there are a lot of games i can't watch due to where i live so can't say that for sure but given his stats in 2022 - 2.5 sacks 1 FF & 20 solo tackles TO ME does not or will not be worth the kind of money he will get paid this year or will ask for in his next contract so let's get something for him while they can & get rid of the $10+ million it will cost . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: They didn't think he was good enough. The second part was about roster makeup not money. All are still true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 Taiwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Aurelius Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 Forgive me, I know you clearly stated RECENT past. But this guy was the first BILL that definitely deserved the label ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: How odd that you should pop in to this one. Kinda hard to find positive one here. Any attempt to post a positive thread leads to the negative Nancies taking over the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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