nucci Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 5 hours ago, Zag20 said: They did basically fire the ST coach for the kick. And Levi Wallace more or less took personal responsibility for the coverage debacle. Not good enough. No comments from McDermott about any of this. He has stayed quiet. Wallace was responsible for D coverage on every play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 7 hours ago, nbbillsfan said: Elite Qb’s and offenses are too good for the Frazier defense. It is incredibly effective against the majority of teams, but when the games count, against often elite QB play, the scheme gets torched. Give me an attaching defense. We have the offense (and QB) to play that style. We can score if we give up the occasional big play in pursuit of pressures/sacks/interceptions and overall confusion. I recall a number of defenses over the years (in our own division, even) successfully employing "attaching" coverage schemes. Think Chiefs, Ravens, Patriots defenses. Think Ty Law. Think every excellent New England press-man CB this century. Think 2022 Tre White post-injury lol (I kid, I kid)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichRiderBills Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Everyone forgotten we gave up 13 seconds again at the end of the half this year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Listening to Vic Carucci just now on Sports Talk Live...he mentioned that McD's defenses in Carolina were much more "attacking" defenses. I always thought Frazier coached "scared" especially in the playoffs. Whether Frazier was asked to leave or stepped away on his own, I think McD saw a change was necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 38 minutes ago, jkeerie said: Listening to Vic Carucci just now on Sports Talk Live...he mentioned that McD's defenses in Carolina were much more "attacking" defenses. I always thought Frazier coached "scared" especially in the playoffs. Whether Frazier was asked to leave or stepped away on his own, I think McD saw a change was necessary. What makes you say that? McD said it was 100% Frazier's call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, Chaos said: What makes you say that? McD said it was 100% Frazier's call. I'm not speculating either way. I'm just passing on Carucci's comment about McD wanting a more aggressive D. Perhaps it was discussed postseason and Frazier felt he was being criticised, or being eased-out with the coaching additions. It could be maybe the season took a toll on Frazier as well since the majority of "trauma" the team experienced was on the defensive side of the ball or he wants to take stock of where, if anywhere his career might be going in light of the lack of opportunity to get another HC gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, jkeerie said: I'm not speculating either way. I'm just passing on Carucci's comment about McD wanting a more aggressive D. Perhaps it was discussed postseason and Frazier felt he was being criticised, or being eased-out with the coaching additions. It could be maybe the season took a toll on Frazier as well since the majority of "trauma" the team experienced was on the defensive side of the ball or he wants to take stock of where, if anywhere his career might be going in light of the lack of opportunity to get another HC gig. Was MdD involved with coaching the team at all during the last two playoff losses? Because it seems like many fans think McD is just on the sidelines observing what the DC's are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 McD has not been calling the defensive plays. Yes, it's McD's defense but the play calling has not been as agressive as when McD called the plays in Carolina. Only once did we see McD take over play calling...in a single game, a few years ago. McD is very careful of not disrespecting his coaches publicly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, Chaos said: Was MdD involved with coaching the team at all during the last two playoff losses? Because it seems like many fans think McD is just on the sidelines observing what the DC's are doing. I have always thought McD allows his Coaches to do what they think is best. And very much to a fault. Part of the Growth process. He is painfully loyal, and uncomfortable with forcing his hand when things are trending poorly. and there is the other option , as so many have mentioned when things go awry lol But I still have faith in McBeanes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, jkeerie said: McD has not been calling the defensive plays. Yes, it's McD's defense but the play calling has not been as agressive as when McD called the plays in Carolina. Only once did we see McD take over play calling...in a single game, a few years ago. McD is very careful of not disrespecting his coaches publicly. ....all the way up to the point when they're dismissed due to incompetence like Farwell & Frazier. Dude should've just called plays from the start like Andy does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: ....all the way up to the point when they're dismissed due to incompetence like Farwell & Frazier. Dude should've just called plays from the start like Andy does. Despite outside speculation, these coaches are allowed to leave on their own...the public criticism coming only from fans. McD may not have wanted so much on his plate as a new head coach in the beginning. Carucci believes he will be calling the defensive plays this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I think the fact that McDermott called for a more aggressive defense with a nasty edge tells me all there is to know about Frazier. To me Frazier was effectively pushed out. Imagine team did expect Frazier to return but McDermott had some changes in mind whether that was the play calling or something else. At this point Frazier decided to step away for the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 hours ago, billieve420 said: I think the fact that McDermott called for a more aggressive defense with a nasty edge tells me all there is to know about Frazier. To me Frazier was effectively pushed out. Imagine team did expect Frazier to return but McDermott had some changes in mind whether that was the play calling or something else. At this point Frazier decided to step away for the year. I think once they brought Holcomb in, McD told Frazier he’s calling plays and balls in your court. Frazier decided to walk without any scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 13 hours ago, Chaos said: What makes you say that? McD said it was 100% Frazier's call. Leslie is his close friend. Why would he tell the world that he fired his close friend when he can just say it was Leslie’s decision to step away. And it very well may have been his decision…. Very plausible scenario- McD tells Frazier that he wants to make changes to the D while taking over defensive play calling, but he would like to retain him as DC. Frazier doesn’t like it and decides to leave. Now, that’s not necessarily “firing” Frazier, but taking away power is a demotion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: Leslie is his close friend. Why would he tell the world that he fired his close friend when he can just say it was Leslie’s decision to step away. And it very well may have been his decision…. Very plausible scenario- McD tells Frazier that he wants to make changes to the D while taking over defensive play calling, but he would like to retain him as DC. Frazier doesn’t like it and decides to leave. Now, that’s not necessarily “firing” Frazier, but taking away power is a demotion. You are free to speculate. We all are. But its just speculation. My speculation says to believe that McDermott does not tell white lies to assuage and grown man's feelings though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Chaos said: You are free to speculate. We all are. But its just speculation. My speculation says to believe that McDermott does not tell white lies to assuage and grown man's feelings though. I think that’s 💯 Mcdermotts style. He really cares about people. He wants Leslie to coach again. He thought he should’ve been a HC. Saying that he fired Frazier or that he was stripping him of play calling duties accomplishes nothing. Telling a white lie out of respect for his friend of 20+ years (which trumps being a “grown man” all day, every day) doesn’t seem too far fetched to me, especially considering the man Mcdermott is. 3 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 16 hours ago, Chaos said: Was MdD involved with coaching the team at all during the last two playoff losses? Because it seems like many fans think McD is just on the sidelines observing what the DC's are doing. McD was very involved in the Bengals game, he was down on his knee talking to the defense after the second td while Frazier stood there. He had the tablet there and was showing them what he was seeing and coaching them up l. The next defensive series it sure looked like Sean was calling plays from my vantage point.... My vantage point was sitting on the 25 yard line about 10 rows from the field...a bunch of us who were non player family members keyed in on this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 For those who say that this is all McDermott's defense: if that is the case, then Frazier's absence (or presence, for that matter) will make no difference, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bermuda Triangle said: For those who say that this is all McDermott's defense: if that is the case, then Frazier's absence (or presence, for that matter) will make no difference, correct? Think the play caller plays a huge role in putting players in the right position to succeed. We won't have an answer on that till after the season. Then we will see how big of loss Frazier no longer being there will be. Edited March 7, 2023 by billieve420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: For those who say that this is all McDermott's defense: if that is the case, then Frazier's absence (or presence, for that matter) will make no difference, correct? It will take his focus away from GameDay management Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: For those who say that this is all McDermott's defense: if that is the case, then Frazier's absence (or presence, for that matter) will make no difference, correct? Not correct. The scheme is McD's. The actual gameplan and calls during the game are on the DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecos Bills Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: It will take his focus away from GameDay management Some might consider that an added benefit! 😆 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: For those who say that this is all McDermott's defense: if that is the case, then Frazier's absence (or presence, for that matter) will make no difference, correct? The official Bills company line seems to be "Frazier was a great DC, responsble for the Bills success on defense, but he won't be missed because he was really not too consequential" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: Not correct. The scheme is McD's. The actual gameplan and calls during the game are on the DC. So theoretically, the defense could be more aggressive with McDermott calling plays and game planning? Edited March 7, 2023 by Bermuda Triangle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 hours ago, BayBuck said: Some might consider that an added benefit! 😆 I resisted the urge to say that lol.... 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 23 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: ....all the way up to the point when they're dismissed due to incompetence like Farwell & Frazier. Dude should've just called plays from the start like Andy does. Incompetence after a top 10 defense and 13 and three season I’m not happy with the way they played in the playoffs either but listen to what you’re saying man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 I think it’s pretty obvious McBeane wanted a new play caller on defense and let Frazier save face by saying he’s taking a year off and not needing to announce they weren’t going to renew his contract. Now why Washington is still coaching the D-line when that unit has underachieved for years I can’t explain. Not one D-lineman has been coached to his perceived potential. Maybe Groot, we will see. The rest are either an indictment on Beane’s ability to evaluate D-line talent or Washington’s ability to develop them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: For those who say that this is all McDermott's defense: if that is the case, then Frazier's absence (or presence, for that matter) will make no difference, correct? Correct. We won’t see much improvement and someone else will have to go. 6 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: So theoretically, the defense could be more aggressive with McDermott calling plays and game planning? It could be more aggressive but it won’t matter much because we lack playmakers and skill on that side of the ball. There isn’t a player on this defense that would fetch a 2nd round pick from another team tomorrow so that’s where we’re at. The only way to fix it is by replacing the bad players with good players and that takes time. Edited March 8, 2023 by Governor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Governor said: It could be more aggressive but it won’t matter much because we lack playmakers and skill on that side of the ball. There isn’t a player on this defense that would fetch a 2nd round pick from another team tomorrow so that’s where we’re at. The only way to fix it is by replacing the bad players with good players and that takes time. You know I hadn't thought of it like that but you may well be right. Greg Rousseau was the only one that popped into my head, still young, still ascending, still 3 years of team governed cost control. I think he may, but it isn't a slam dunk and his was the only name that came to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Milano? Elam? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 14 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: So theoretically, the defense could be more aggressive with McDermott calling plays and game planning? It could be more aggressive with any new DC calling plays and game planning. Doesnt have to be McD. And as a matter of fact, SHOULDNT need to be McD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 9 hours ago, Governor said: Correct. We won’t see much improvement and someone else will have to go. It could be more aggressive but it won’t matter much because we lack playmakers and skill on that side of the ball. There isn’t a player on this defense that would fetch a 2nd round pick from another team tomorrow so that’s where we’re at. The only way to fix it is by replacing the bad players with good players and that takes time. Defensive players tend to not generate that much equity in draft picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 11 hours ago, Governor said: It could be more aggressive but it won’t matter much because we lack playmakers and skill on that side of the ball. There isn’t a player on this defense that would fetch a 2nd round pick from another team tomorrow so that’s where we’re at. The only way to fix it is by replacing the bad players with good players and that takes time. Yeah, hard to argue that unfortunately....... 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: You know I hadn't thought of it like that but you may well be right. Greg Rousseau was the only one that popped into my head, still young, still ascending, still 3 years of team governed cost control. I think he may, but it isn't a slam dunk and his was the only name that came to mind. Nah highly doubt he would, as of now at least....He certainly has shown some promise along with being a young player on rookie contract, but I'm not sure he's shown quite enough just yet in his short 2 year career. He definitely improved from his rookie season, but one could argue that basically anyone likely "should" improve having Von Miller as a new addition on the other end. But for a 2nd round pick Milano maybe would come a little closer than Rousseau as of right now I'd guess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Patrick Duffy said: Yeah, hard to argue that unfortunately....... Nah highly doubt he would, as of now at least....He certainly has shown some promise along with being a young player on rookie contract, but I'm not sure he's shown quite enough just yet in his short 2 year career. He definitely improved from his rookie season, but one could argue that basically anyone likely "should" improve having Von Miller as a new addition on the other end. But for a 2nd round pick Milano maybe would come a little closer than Rousseau as of right now I'd guess I thought about Milano but he is a little scheme specific. I think he is a player whose value to the Bills is higher than his value to the majority of the rest of the NFL. Rousseau, with his progression arc, his underlying analytics and his 3 years of cost control is the closest I can get to someone who'd fetch that return. A pre-injury Tre White would have been on the list, but even if he comes back to close to his best a corner at his age off an ACL already isn't fetching a 1st or a 2nd IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I thought about Milano but he is a little scheme specific. I think he is a player whose value to the Bills is higher than his value to the majority of the rest of the NFL. Rousseau, with his progression arc, his underlying analytics and his 3 years of cost control is the closest I can get to someone who'd fetch that return. A pre-injury Tre White would have been on the list, but even if he comes back to close to his best a corner at his age off an ACL already isn't fetching a 1st or a 2nd IMO. I guess that's possible, but to a certain extent if so I'd guess.....I mean I would say the last 2-3 seasons up to recent Milano has proven to be one of the better LB's and I'd guess it probably would not be a great amount of difference between the Bills value and other teams. Idk about 2nd round pick value, but he's still a 28 year old LB in the prime window of his career who makes an impact on a consistent basis for most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 IMO…He is done as a Bill, and won’t be back in 2024 or beyond. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 On 3/7/2023 at 11:58 PM, Governor said: Correct. We won’t see much improvement and someone else will have to go. It could be more aggressive but it won’t matter much because we lack playmakers and skill on that side of the ball. There isn’t a player on this defense that would fetch a 2nd round pick from another team tomorrow so that’s where we’re at. The only way to fix it is by replacing the bad players with good players and that takes time. I have to agree here. McDs record as a defense coordinator isn't very good. He had one very good year in Carolina where they were constantly playing from the front with a dominant offense. Prior to that it's all middle of the road and one year that was the worst scoring defense in Eagles history. I also don't see this list of DBs that he has developed that would warrant such trust that he can make any secondary work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 On 3/7/2023 at 11:58 PM, Governor said: There isn’t a player on this defense that would fetch a 2nd round pick from another team tomorrow so that’s where we’re a This might the most depressing statement on TBD since the end of the season (because its true). When you pause to think about it, what we saw in the Bengals games is that our defense was "exposed". hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 On 3/3/2023 at 12:28 PM, WideNine said: Could be exactly what it looks like. Frazier just needs time away from the game to let the batteries recharge. We can all agree that last season was just a very tough season. It was tough logistically, AFC East was more competitive, lofty expectations, and emotional roller coaster with injuries on that side of the ball and then the fallout from the flat outing against the Bengals. Other coaches take sabbaticals to sit in broadcast booths and be guest analysts, I would not be surprised if Frazier really just needs some time away from the game. On the flip side, it would not go well if Frazier had been retained for another season and he did not have the juice for what the team was going to need. We hung on to him hoping he would get a HC gig and then we get compensation. Since that didn't happen "he decided" to step away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 On 2/28/2023 at 2:41 PM, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: I normally wouldn't suggest that Wawrow was trying to skate by on a technicality, but there was an awful lot of smoke about Frazier's contract expiring this offseason after the Bengals loss, AND Wawrow's tweet was a little ambiguous. Now we get this bizarre story of Frazier "taking a year off" with no explanation given. since my credibility's being questioned here, even by someone who has less than 1,000 posts, i find it important to briefly end my exile and respond. dear poster: try using common sense here. if Leslie wasn't under contract, the Bills would not have announced that he's taking a year off. He instead would have been replaced.. That he's taking a year off, is an indication he has one or more years left on his deal, and the Bills are allowing him to take this year off. Might he return with the Bills next year? Maybe. Maybe not. But all this innuendo and reading into things, as people are want to do here, doesn't take away from what i reported back in January. What was ambiguous about it? How am I "skating" on a technicality? Leslie Frazier was under contract at that time. And still is under contract. It's really not that hard, and yet you appear to make it so. back to my exile and awaiting the opportunity to change my name to "delete this account" because it seems impossible for that to happen. signed: delete this account 1 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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