Matt Araiza, The Punt God, Signs With Team in Mexico

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Same ones who think "no charges" means "completely innocent". But they are masters of Bird Law.

 

 

Yup...prosecutors only prosecute cases they believe they can prove. Not being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt someone is guilty of something does not mean they didn't do it...it just means they don't feel they can win that argument in a court of law with a jury.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Big Turk

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

He won't ever punt in the NFL again.  Heard through the grape vine, he has a substantial lawsuit about to be brought against the Bills and the NFL.  He about to be highest paid punter.

 

Tell us more about this magical fruit plant that tells you things.

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Tell us more about this magical fruit plant that tells you things.

 

Marvin Gaye sang a song about what he heard...perhaps the poster could do the same for us?

[MrEpsYtown]

You know...it's finally time for Michael Turk!

[dollars 2 donuts]

24 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

People who have zero understanding of how employment law works.

 

As soon as the girl was caught on video saying she was "planning to increase her body count by more than one that night" prosecutors had nothing to work on.  She would have been eviscerated on cross examination by the defense.

 

 

Turk, I absolutely hear you, brother, and that is part of the point.

 

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

Wow, this is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on this forum.  He will win whatever lawsuit he files.  Not only was he a union employee, the Bills cut the guy he was competing with and then proceed to cut Araiza only after he was wrongfully accused of a crime.  He should have been suspended and placed on the commission exempt list while the process played out.  There are countless other situations within NFL where that was what happened.

 

If he files a suit against the NFL and/or Bills, he'll never punt in the NFL again.  The short term monetary gain (not that there would be any) wouldn't be worth it.  

 

38 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

As soon as the girl was caught on video saying she was "planning to increase her body count by more than one that night" prosecutors had nothing to work on.  She would have been eviscerated on cross examination by the defense.

 

That and claiming she was 18.  

Edited February 17, 2023 by Doc

[MrEpsYtown]

The left footed punter in college that I know of is Kai Kroeger, South Carolina. I don't know much about him other than the fact that is is a lefty. Noty sure if he entered the draft this year.  

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

The Bills can cut whoever they want for any reason. Cutting someone due to having legal issues and not wanting a player who was distracted with that and facing the potential of going to jail and forcing them to find a punter last second is plenty of enough reason to cut someone.  

 

Nobody has a right to be on a team, there is this thing called At Will Employment that exists.

 

I haven't read the CBA, so I don't know if members of the NFL players union are considered "at will" employees.  Maybe, maybe not.  That said, I'm sure the Bills consulted their employment counsel prior to terminating Arazia.  That lawyer should be familiar with what the CBA does and does not allow and should have advised the Bills on how to handle the situation.  Presumably, the league office was involved too (and if not, they should have been, given the sensitivity of the situation).  Given that the Players' Union didn't file any kind of grievance or throw their weight behind Arazia, I suspect that releasing the player was within the confines if the CBA and that any lawsuit against the Bills and/or the league would have little merit and would likely be tossed out of court.  While it's possible that the league may choose to settle the case to avoid negative publicity, I think that the court of public opinion would side with the Bills and the league on this one, so I don't think they'll be forced into a settlement for publicity reasons.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

I haven't read the CBA, so I don't know if members of the NFL players union are considered "at will" employees.  Maybe, maybe not.  That said, I'm sure the Bills consulted their employment counsel prior to terminating Arazia.  That lawyer should be familiar with what the CBA does and does not allow and should have advised the Bills on how to handle the situation.  Presumably, the league office was involved too (and if not, they should have been, given the sensitivity of the situation).  Given that the Players' Union didn't file any kind of grievance or throw their weight behind Arazia, I suspect that releasing the player was within the confines if the CBA and that any lawsuit against the Bills and/or the league would have little merit and would likely be tossed out of court.  While it's possible that the league may choose to settle the case to avoid negative publicity, I think that the court of public opinion would side with the Bills and the league on this one, so I don't think they'll be forced into a settlement for publicity reasons.

 

 

When, in the history of the NFL, have teams been unable to cut players during camp for whatever reason they see fit? Y'all are getting too caught up in what you think is "fair" for poor Araiza and not realizing that he is just another guy that got cut in camp. Like hundreds of others every year, and thousands that came before him.

[fan_in_tx]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yup...prosecutors only prosecute cases they believe they can prove. Not being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt someone is guilty of something does not mean they didn't do it...it just means they don't feel they can win that argument in a court of law with a jury.

This is the problem with the thinking of most Americans today.  Our court system is built on the "Presumption of innocence", but the mob justice system in America today is fueled by Social Media with the "presumption of guilt" based on the charge.      Need to fix this...   Guy should not have been penalized simply by a charged offense, especially when we have seen this example of false accusations many times in our society.   Ask yourself, is Michael Irvin guilty?

Edited February 17, 2023 by fan_in_tx

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, fan_in_tx said:

This is the problem with the thinking of most Americans today.  Our court system is built on the "Presumption of innocence", but the mob justice system in America today is fueled by Social Media with the "presumption of guilt" based on the charge.      Need to fix this...   Guy should not have been penalized simply by a charged offense, especially when we have seen this example of false accusations many times in our society.   Ask yourself, is Michael Irvin guilty?

 

Yes. Always. That's an easy one.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

The left footed punter in college that I know of is Kai Kroeger, South Carolina. I don't know much about him other than the fact that is is a lefty. Noty sure if he entered the draft this year.  

Silly boy...

1. All left footed punters automatically become the property of the New England Patriots, until such time that they are waived or traded.

2. You now owe New England a conditional draft pick for violating item 1.

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Wow, this is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on this forum.  He will win whatever lawsuit he files.  Not only was he a union employee, the Bills cut the guy he was competing with and then proceed to cut Araiza only after he was wrongfully accused of a crime.  He should have been suspended and placed on the commission exempt list while the process played out.  There are countless other situations within NFL where that was what happened.

Lol. Sure we’ll see.

[extrahammer]

It's funny how quickly the media ditched the story when they realized what a shyster the victim's attorney is. 

[Mr. WEO]

No NFL needs a Punter this badly.  

22 minutes ago, fan_in_tx said:

This is the problem with the thinking of most Americans today.  Our court system is built on the "Presumption of innocence", but the mob justice system in America today is fueled by Social Media with the "presumption of guilt" based on the charge.      Need to fix this...   Guy should not have been penalized simply by a charged offense, especially when we have seen this example of false accusations many times in our society.   Ask yourself, is Michael Irvin guilty?

 

 

lol

[Bob Jones]

I think the Bills should apologize for tarnishing MA's good name, and make him a decent offer to come back. That would be the right thing to do. 😉

[Jerome007]

I'm sure he will get another shot at the NFL. He's not been convicted, he had his run with the "justice system", so why would you ban him for life?

 

I get why the Bills didn't want the relentless media attention for a rookie, and noticed they released him without saying he was guilty and all that. They did it the right way (unless they knew of the story before dratfing him). 

[hondo in seattle]

I don't know what actually happened but I do know innocent-until-proven-guilty is dead in America.   

 

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I don't know what actually happened but I do know innocent-until-proven-guilty is dead in America.   

 

 

No it isnt. It's how the government courts still operate. Hence why no charges were brought against Araiza because the evidence wasnt there.

 

The court of public opinion has ALWAYS been guilty once you hit the news. You can go back to the advent of newspapers for that. It's simply human nature.

 

[chongli]

3 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

He should have been suspended and placed on the commission exempt list while the process played out.  There are countless other situations within NFL where that was what happened.

 

The CBA does not allow the NFL to suspend players for alleged acts that happened prior to entering the NFL.

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

He won't ever punt in the NFL again.  Heard through the grape vine, he has a substantial lawsuit about to be brought against the Bills and the NFL.  He about to be highest paid punter.

There’s nothing to sue the Bills or the NFL for, you are full of crap.

[DCofNC]

All things considered, I’d have him back in camp this year.  He’s talented, that we have seen.  
 

The case is going no where, he’s not being charged criminally.   He hooked up w a girl who lied.  In California, shockingly, they have protection against the accused if the plaintiff mis-leads them.  

 

I don’t see anybody losing sleep over a guy who got caught doing the same thing at least half the team has or would have done in the same spot. 

[boyst]

3 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Wow, this is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on this forum.  He will win whatever lawsuit he files.  Not only was he a union employee, the Bills cut the guy he was competing with and then proceed to cut Araiza only after he was wrongfully accused of a crime.  He should have been suspended and placed on the commission exempt list while the process played out.  There are countless other situations within NFL where that was what happened.

While the he won't win the suit and it could be dropped it  will just be a quiet settlement with a big NDA.

 

However, he should sue and he should win millions because the Bills, NFL and the community at large really ***** on this guy. The bills and NFL deserve to be bent over. 

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

All things considered, I’d have him back in camp this year.  He’s talented, that we have seen.  
 

The case is going no where, he’s not being charged criminally.   He hooked up w a girl who lied.  In California, shockingly, they have protection against the accused if the plaintiff mis-leads them.  

 

I don’t see anybody losing sleep over a guy who got caught doing the same thing at least half the team has or would have done in the same spot. 

 

There is a civil suit still pending and it will be interesting to see what comes of it.  I doubt she wins that either but we'll see.

[SCBills]

Bills should bring him back, if our society wasn’t trash.. but we of course, can’t… and half our fans still probably believe the initial story.   Once you’re branded, it’s over.   
 

You could tell Beane felt awful about having to cut him.  If I had to guess, he knew he had to, but also knew he was cutting a guy for something that didn’t happen as it was framed. 
 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by SCBills

[Blank Stare]

6 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I’m not sure this applies to a punter. A QB? Absolutely. A WR? Probably. But a punter? The difference in average punt by 5 yards probably isn’t enough to move the needle in favor of signing someone who is going to come with a ton of negative publicity. 

Yeah, that’s a good point and you very well may be right. We’ve not really seen this recently with a position like punter. But…Araiza isn’t just any punter on the hype scale. Guy was dubbed the punt god of all things. Guys with otherworldly talent at their positions typically get another chance. If he’s cleared of wrongdoing in the legal system, I suspect that will be the same here, even for a punter with a leg like Araiza. 

[Blank Stare]

4 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Blank Stare, it was definitely a scummy situation by him and a crime if the young woman and her attorneys are to be believed. 

 

HOWEVER, everything we saw in the lead up to him being cut.  Everything made it seem like that at the very least this guy was getting charged with something.

 

Crazy that he wasn't.

 

A friend of mine stated the obvious, "well it is tough to prove," and I don't disagree.

 

...but man, the guy didn't even get charged. 

What does that say about either what we were told, who was telling it, and how the guy was deemed guilty before even getting out of the gate?

 

What was definitely on him is that something was up and he knew about it at the time of the draft and should he should have been forward about it with teams (I believe...I could be wrong, that a continuing investigation was taking place...please correct me if I am wrong).

 

Did the Bills know?  Should they have known?

 

Man...

 

 

 

 

The whole thing is so bizarre.

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

No it isnt. It's how the government courts still operate. Hence why no charges were brought against Araiza because the evidence wasnt there.

 

The court of public opinion has ALWAYS been guilty once you hit the news. You can go back to the advent of newspapers for that. It's simply human nature.

 

 

Ehhh I think you are downplaying the societal pressures social media can place on whoever they deem is in the wrong and anyone associated with them.

 

Compared to newspapers....😂

Edited February 17, 2023 by What a Tuel

[dollars 2 donuts]

43 minutes ago, Blank Stare said:

The whole thing is so bizarre.

 

The actions of him, chargeable or not, provable to the degree that they were explained or not, we’re terrible, either way.
 

The thing is what was the big picture?

 

…we were all, including the Bills, listening to and literally doing determinations and making decisions by the soap boxing of attorneys….zealous advocates on behalf of their client.

(paraphrasing what was expressed):

 

we didn’t want any of this

 

we wanted this settled

 

we tried to talk to the bills

 

our hands were forced

 

all we wanted was an apology

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[Pokebball]

5 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

He won't ever punt in the NFL again.  Heard through the grape vine, he has a substantial lawsuit about to be brought against the Bills and the NFL.  He about to be highest paid punter.

He won't ever play in the NFL again if he brings such a lawsuit.

[BillsFanSD]

I'm rooting for the guy to make it back to the NFL.  He was treated very poorly by the media and the Bills organization.

5 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

HOWEVER, everything we saw in the lead up to him being cut.  Everything made it seem like that at the very least this guy was getting charged with something.

 

Crazy that he wasn't.

 

A friend of mine stated the obvious, "well it is tough to prove," and I don't disagree.

 

...but man, the guy didn't even get charged. 

What does that say about either what we were told, who was telling it, and how the guy was deemed guilty before even getting out of the gate?

If you actually read the criminal complaint, you would have noticed that victim was very careful not accuse MA of participating in her gang rape.  She specifically said, out loud, that she couldn't recall if he actually raped* her or not.  But the good folks at Cover 1 and the Buffalo News knew better or something.

 

* Technically this is still a statutory rape situation since nobody disputes that they had consensual sex, but also nobody ever really cared about that angle because nobody actually has a problem with a 21 year-old shagging a 17 year-old.  That was all pretend outrage.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

All things considered, I’d have him back in camp this year.  He’s talented, that we have seen.  
 

 

 

 

When did we see that?  He had 1 punt as a Bills player (preseason).

 

1 hour ago, boyst said:

While the he won't win the suit and it could be dropped it  will just be a quiet settlement with a big NDA.

 

However, he should sue and he should win millions because the Bills, NFL and the community at large really ***** on this guy. The bills and NFL deserve to be bent over. 

 

Bills (any team) can release any player at any time.  What would be the basis for his suit? 

 

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Bills should bring him back, if our society wasn’t trash.. but we of course, can’t… and half our fans still probably believe the initial story.   Once you’re branded, it’s over.   
 

You could tell Beane felt awful about having to cut him.  If I had to guess, he knew he had to, but also knew he was cutting a guy for something that didn’t happen as it was framed. 
 

 

 

Why do they need him at this point?

[Blank Stare]

7 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

He won't ever punt in the NFL again.  Heard through the grape vine, he has a substantial lawsuit about to be brought against the Bills and the NFL.  He about to be highest paid punter.

Well that answers my question about whether he holds a grudge. I get being disappointed (even livid if you are truly innocent), but WTH did he expect the team to do? 

[chongli]

2 hours ago, Pokebball said:

He won't ever play in the NFL again if he brings such a lawsuit.

 

That's what they said about Brian Flores and DeMeco Ryans.

[msw2112]

Community Member

 26.8k

Posted 6 hours ago

  7 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

I haven't read the CBA, so I don't know if members of the NFL players union are considered "at will" employees.  Maybe, maybe not.  That said, I'm sure the Bills consulted their employment counsel prior to terminating Arazia.  That lawyer should be familiar with what the CBA does and does not allow and should have advised the Bills on how to handle the situation.  Presumably, the league office was involved too (and if not, they should have been, given the sensitivity of the situation).  Given that the Players' Union didn't file any kind of grievance or throw their weight behind Arazia, I suspect that releasing the player was within the confines if the CBA and that any lawsuit against the Bills and/or the league would have little merit and would likely be tossed out of court.  While it's possible that the league may choose to settle the case to avoid negative publicity, I think that the court of public opinion would side with the Bills and the league on this one, so I don't think they'll be forced into a settlement for publicity reasons.

 

----------------------------------------------

7 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

When, in the history of the NFL, have teams been unable to cut players during camp for whatever reason they see fit? Y'all are getting too caught up in what you think is "fair" for poor Araiza and not realizing that he is just another guy that got cut in camp. Like hundreds of others every year, and thousands that came before him.

 

I'm not sure how you're reading that into my analysis or comments.  I'm simply referring to the legal angle behind others' comments that Arazia is going to sue the Bills.  Some think he'd win such a lawsuit easily and other think it would be tossed out of court immediately.  An at will employee can be terminated for any reason - except for reasons that are considered discrimination under the law (age, race, gender, etc.) - and Arazia fits none of those categories.  In some situations, however, if an employer-employee relationship is governed by a collective bargaining agreement (CBA), the agreed-upon rules in the CBA supersede the common law "at will" employment rules and will govern what an employer can do in certain termination situations.

 

I don't really care what is fair to Arazia or feel any sympathy for him one way or the other.  He's a punter, a low-round draft pick, and he got caught with his d*^k in the wrong place at the wrong time, whether he did anything illegal or not.  If nothing else, he's guilty of poor judgment.  I'm glad the Bills cut him.  All I am saying is that given the high-profile situation, the Bills likely consulted their employment counsel to make sure they didn't run afoul of anything the CBA that would come back to bite them after making the decision to cut him.  Failing to do so would be stupid.  Where do you read that I'm considering what is "fair to poor Araiza?"  Hell, I don't even know how to spell his name.

Edited February 17, 2023 by msw2112

[Donuts and Doritos]

19 hours ago, Blank Stare said:

Maybe it’s just me, but if he’s never criminally charged or held liable in civil court, he’s going to get another chance in the league. You just know someone will do it. He’s too talented. If he truly is innocent (which I'm still pretty skeptical he did absolutely nothing wrong at this point) then he’d be worth bringing back. We are currently punter-less and we did burn a pick on him. I wonder if he holds a grudge against the Bills, but even he has to understand he put the team in an impossible position just before the start of the season. 

 

Tell that to Colin Kaepernick (never criminally or civilly charged w/ anything) or Ray Rice (criminal Charges dropped. I know there was a video but he was never convicted). Of course there is Watson who got another shot in Cleveland, so ya never know. I'd rather stick with Sam Martin, he did great this year, wasn't a distraction.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[Thrivefourfive]

This is never included on the checklist of Bills un-overcome-ables for 2022. It should be, but I guess it’s best forgetting it than using it as another excuse why the Bills lost to the Bengals. 

14 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

 

Tell that to Colin Kaepernick (never criminally or civilly charged w/ anything) or Ray Rice (criminal Charges dropped. I know there was a video but he was never convicted). Of course there is Watson who got another shot in Cleveland, so ya never know. I'd rather stick with Sam Martin, he did great this year, wasn't a distraction.

 

 

Those are two insanely different situations. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

2 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

This is never included on the checklist of Bills un-overcome-ables for 2022. It should be, but I guess it’s best forgetting it than using it as another excuse why the Bills lost to the Bengals. 

Those are two insanely different situations. 

 

Which Kapernick, Rice or Watson? (Not that any 2 situations are ever exactly the same. Pt is I could see him being blackballed or he could get picked up, NFL has played it both ways before)

[Steptide]

22 hours ago, boyst said:

They're not in season right now. He needs reps. Been out of the game for a year. 

Xfl starts tomorrow 

[DCofNC]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

When did we see that?  He had 1 punt as a Bills player (preseason).

 

 

Bills (any team) can release any player at any time.  What would be the basis for his suit? 

 

 

Why do they need him at this point?

We saw 1 punt that would go down as the longest in the NFL this year.. yep, that’s an indication of talent, not to mention all the bombs he cut loose in college.  How have we NOT seen talent?  You’re flat out trolling.