A day later, I'm still in the camp of cleaning house.

[Jerome007]

2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

If you lose but still have hope for the future, it's easier to move on. But, this morning, my hope for the future is gone. I genuinely believe we won't sniff a Super Bowl with McD. When it gets to this point, ownership needs to start thinking about changes that will restore hope.

Spot on. My worry with Josh was that he would be a good/very good QB but not elite. Teams are kind of stuck with them. Whatever his faults and the haters, he is a Top 5 QB, I'd argue top 3. But McD is the very definition of a very good HC overall, but that lacks a few elements to reach elite status, and year after year those faults remain.

 

 I wasn't on board the "fire OC/DC" crowd till yesterday. Now I want them out. Usually, my take is don't get rid of anyone until you find replacements (or enough are available). But this was awful. Losing trust in the coaches is a big no no. McD deserves another year but be on the hot seat. The same for Beane for that awful DLine that got destroyed by backups of an already below average Bengals OLine,

 

If Josh or DIggs have a bad game, or Milano and Miller, hey, they've proven their worth time and time again. When did Dorsey mesmerize with his schemes besides the first few early games? It's almost frustrating seeing the 4-5 easy plays scheming gets the Bengals, Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, etc. while it's seemingly a vanilla offense for the Bills that Josh makes work somehow. 

 

The defense has had some games where the scheming won the game or certainly was a amjor factor, but how can they never seem to adjust? We all expected the Bills DLine to take advantage of a banged up, already farirly weak Bengals OLine. So no one can fault the initial gameplan. But since the DLine were pushed around like juniors, change it! 

 

Yep, lack of trust in the coaches is a killer. Some changes have to happen.

[TheBeaneBandit]

15 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Yeah, that wasn't the intent of this thread.

 

I'm not about to give up on the team, not after 40 years of following it.

 

But I AM given up on this regime. They had a lot of promise 2017-2019, and since have been...underwhelming.

 

The wife and I have already stated if Frazier remains (although I'm open to MULTIPLE coaching changes), that the Bills will not have our support until he is gone. Paper tiger defence for how many years running?....when the tough gets going they get trucked. Every. Single. Time. 

[97bills]

1 hour ago, TonyBeets said:

After watching the 49ers and Cowboys play shortly after our game, I quickly realized how undermanned we are on defense.  Those guys fly around and make plays.  

 

There were times yesterday that Joe Burrow looked like he was in training camp, playing against guys that won't make the team.  It was really bad.

I agree… and if it had to happen glad it did yesterday, because if we did sneak in the Super Bowl the 49ers would have murdered us. There DLINE and OLINE is way better then CIN. 

[Repulsif]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I can think of four, maybe five guy on this team who have the "want it." The rest could all go for all I care 

Tasker had it

Allen has it, Diggs has it, Poyer has it (gone), Beasley has it (gone again)

Did I miss someone ?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Repulsif said:

Tasker had it

Allen has it, Diggs has it, Poyer has it (gone), Beasley has it (gone again)

Did I miss someone ?

Hyde, Milano

 

[YodaMan79]

A year after .13 and I'm still in that state of mind.  My worst fears are being realized.  I think last year was their time to seal the deal, and they are now chasing it on the decline.  

[Low Positive]

23 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Or in Mixons case, guys who will punch you in the face for rejecting their advances. Sure you don’t have to like every player, but can we at least draw the line at dudes who assault random women in public?

I was speaking from emotion when I posted that. Of course I don't want Joe Mixon on the Bills, just like I didn't want Incognito. I just have to live here and see how the entire Bengals fan base just excuses what Mixon did. They twist themselves into knots with the whole "he was never charged," "he deserves a second chance," and "she had it coming." It really does show how tribal sports fandom is.

[BillyBilliams]

2 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

You mean the game where the back-up officials inserted themselves into a game, which they had no business of doing, and taking a special teams touchdown from us?

Blaming a 16-0 lead blown on officials is crybaby *****.  

1 hour ago, clayboy54 said:

Elam is a man CB.

corrext, he’s the only man CB.  White is a zone DB.  Dane Jackson is a Zone DB.  Tarim Johnson, Zone.  Benford can play man.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

Blaming a 16-0 lead blown on officials is crybaby *****.  

 

I blame in on the offense puking all over itself second half. 

[BillyBilliams]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I blame in on the offense puking all over itself second half. 

And the coaching staff for not trying to slow the game down, as well as the defense not being able to stop anything.  Frazier and McD are defensive coaches.  Why are we failing defensively in playoff games?

[ArdmoreRyno]

Can we trade Detroit for Dan Campbell?

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Can we trade Detroit for Dan Campbell?

 

Can we trade Pittsburgh for Mike Tomlin. 

[Drew21PA]

“Oh but we made the divisional round and afc championship in the last 3 years”

 

is what they will say why they can’t move on

 

sorry doesn’t matter - we choked again coach - it’s on McDermott and Beane

 

these guys are not tough enough in the trenches - no killer instinct except for Matt Milano and Josh Allen and Diggs

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

And the coaching staff for not trying to slow the game down, as well as the defense not being able to stop anything.  Frazier and McD are defensive coaches.  Why are we failing defensively in playoff games?

 

It's a fair question. I don't think it is what happened in Houston. 

[ddaryl]

we need new coordinators.... I just don't see us purging McDermott or Beane but their leashes are much much shorter

we are going to have a mini rebuild this offseason when we let a few players go and sign some cheaper alternatives... Now is the time to bring in some new Coordinators to work with a new players/core
 

[Rico]

Never thought I’d say it about this regime, but as of today, it’s obvious the Bills are f****d. I can only hope they do the right things, but in the aftermath of this debacle, I’m not really sure what that is.

 

Though I wouldn’t mind seeing:

1. Like everyone else, invest day 1 & 2 picks on WR and OL.

2. Free up as much cap space as possible & don’t spend anything crazy on players already here (sorry TE, sorry PO).

3. Sign PHYSICAL players, street FA’s and what you can afford from other teams. Have to get tough quick.

4. Coaching - don’t know what’s going to happen here after a 14-win season. Maybe we do add Greg Roman as running game coordinator, not to put in the Ravens offense but to become competent in running the ball.

 

This sucks.   

[Mark Vader]

46 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

Blaming a 16-0 lead blown on officials is crybaby *****.  

corrext, he’s the only man CB.  White is a zone DB.  Dane Jackson is a Zone DB.  Tarim Johnson, Zone.  Benford can play man.

It's the truth. We still don't know why those officials intervened. The Bills lost crucial points because of it. You cannot deny that.

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, Jerome007 said:

Yep, lack of trust in the coaches is a killer. Some changes have to happen.

Nothing more can be said until this happens.

[Not Applicable]

They are a soft, finesse team that routinely gets pushed around by more physical squads. Allen is enough to still get them on the right side of the scoreboard during the regular season, but in the playoffs, it's only a matter of time before a tougher team with better coaching dispatches them. I'm of the opinion that they're mentally weak as well much of the time. Always look frantic and out-of-sorts.

[Billl]

47 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

we need new coordinators.... I just don't see us purging McDermott or Beane but their leashes are much much shorter

we are going to have a mini rebuild this offseason when we let a few players go and sign some cheaper alternatives... Now is the time to bring in some new Coordinators to work with a new players/core
 

Who in the world do you think would take the jobs?  The Bills had one of the best offenses and defenses in the league but fire both coordinators?  I'm sure coaches will be tripping over each other racing to upstate NY and be the next coordinator to be fired after a single season.  

 

This place was calling for Daboll's head for years.  If he wasn't good enough, who is?

[NEBranch]

Is this our "Bickering Bills/Ronnie Harmon" season before things got pretty good?

[US Egg]

I’m not cleaning anything for awhile…..

 

…..the month ain’t over yet.

[ddaryl]

18 minutes ago, Billl said:

Who in the world do you think would take the jobs?  The Bills had one of the best offenses and defenses in the league but fire both coordinators?  I'm sure coaches will be tripping over each other racing to upstate NY and be the next coordinator to be fired after a single season.  

 

This place was calling for Daboll's head for years.  If he wasn't good enough, who is?

 

 

1st of all, and I can not stress this enough, Who the hell is racing to Upstate NY???????  Maybe for retirement.. but you are not going to find any job in pro sports in Upstate NY. Which brings me to the next question.. Where were you born and what made you a Bills fan,  because you are very obviously not from the Buffalo or the NYS area.

 

Dorsey was rookie, no coordinator is going to be scrared if we fire Dorsey after a season. In fact his promotion had to be seen as a trial because he has never been an O. Cord. before...  I was luke warm on our Offense this year. It was on fire early but we were figured out.  No short routes, no succesful screen game, no quick slants, no adjustments when it became obvious we needed them... That should be a part of every pro offense but its such a small part of ours... Allen was able to mask the short commings... 

 

Frazier, maybe if we didn't have injuries his system may work, but the fact is you're going to have injuries... Now I think our philosophy of having enough personell for constant DL rotation is causing us issues with other parts of the team spending to much resources there... But my real issue is we have way to much cushion / soft zone for my tastes. A lot of this goes away if we can pressure the QB but Frazier hasn't been great at getting pressure on the QBs, and couple that with a soft bend don't break philopsophy that needs pressure to succeed he had no adjustments. We rush 4 then we should have had plenty of players able to clod everything up.... but 10 yd cushions is inexcusable

 

 

I seriously doubt we will have any issue attracting coaches is we decide to look..... but I fear is wasting the Allen years afraid to make changes when it becomes obvious we will need some

 

 

[Low Positive]

59 minutes ago, NEBranch said:

Is this our "Bickering Bills/Ronnie Harmon" season before things got pretty good?

That was last year on the schedule. This was supposed to be SB loss #1.

[All_Pro_Bills]

19 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

Frazier, maybe if we didn't have injuries his system may work, but the fact is you're going to have injuries... Now I think our philosophy of having enough personell for constant DL rotation is causing us issues with other parts of the team spending to much resources there... But my real issue is we have way to much cushion / soft zone for my tastes. A lot of this goes away if we can pressure the QB but Frazier hasn't been great at getting pressure on the QBs, and couple that with a soft bend don't break philopsophy that needs pressure to succeed he had no adjustments. We rush 4 then we should have had plenty of players able to clod everything up.... but 10 yd cushions is inexcusable

Another poster mentioned this today.  This is a blatant example of "soft".

 

Score 14-7, Bengals, the ball at the Bills 14 with 2:48 left in the 2nd quarter, 3rd and 4.  4 receiver set with Chase wide to the left and 3 receivers on the right.  Bills blitz with 7 rushing against 6 blockers.  CB's White on the left, Jackson on the right both 7 yard off the line.  2 other defenders at the 5 yard line.   Burrows gets the snap and stares down Chase then makes quick throw he catches at the 12, he cuts inside as White misses the tackle and Edmunds tracks him down after the blitz attempt failed and brings him down at the 7.  First and goal.

 

You want to argue Frazier didn't want to give up the big play which in this case would be a 14 yard TD.  So instead you concede the first down unless 1) the blitz gets to Burrows, which it didn't, or the receiver drops the ball or fumbles or something else which didn't happen.  Frazier's/McDermott's scheme is based on the idea that the offense is not going to execute 10 or 12 plays in a row and will make a mistake but good and great teams in the playoffs don't make a lot of mistakes.  You need to make a play against them.  Not wait for them to mess up.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Can we trade Pittsburgh for Mike Tomlin. 

What I'd like to happen is a raid on the Philadelphia FO/staff.

 

They've build TWO SB contenders in the time we've managed to build ONE divisional round team

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

Im not against it.  Im not sure you can fix the Defensive mentality of Beane and McDermott.  They have failed massively drafting defense the whole time they been here.  Im not sure they understand offense scores points.  If I was Terry and they even mentioned drafting defense high on the board I woukd fire them both on the spot.

[Rebel101]

6 hours ago, schoolhouserock said:

The Bills - regardless of what decisions are made - are likely to have more hiccups next season. This needed to be THE year. Future years are going to require more luck.

I disagree I believe this will make this team not feel like the top dog and play smarter football and not think they can do anything and get away with it. This team has been sloppy and poorly coached from awhile now. We shouldn’t have won a lot of games we won and we only lost the ones we did because of sloppiness 

[quincy]

The most painful season in my ten years of being a Buffalo Bills fan.

 

We giggle at the other AFC East teams, who do you have at QB? Mac Jones, Tua, the Zach/Mike/Joe combo - we have an undisputed top 5 guy, after so many years of waiting and we have a weak OL, an underutilized TE on a big $ contract, a true top 5 WR and virtually nothing else in addition to a seemingly impatient OC.

 

Speaking only about the four Divisional round games, the teams that ran the ball for the most yards won. Jacksonville was doing well with Etienne and Hasty and they suddenly stopped running. 

 

We had the USA radio broadcast on the BBC here in England. Mike Mayock was tipping plays - Hurst was wide open 2 seconds before he caught the TD. The pass to Chase where he was 1 on 1 with Tre. The British studio analyst (Darren Fletcher) was saying the "Buffalo Bills have a team that is not in the image of the city of Buffalo". Ouch.      

 

We draft Elam, Cook and Shakir and we don't give them the opportunity? Are we so flooded with talent for them to sit on the bench?

 

I always feel that McDermott is disingenuous when speaking, he is always hiding behind reviewing the tape or his spirituality. If you mess up, own it. Beane appears genuine and I still have more faith in him compared to McDermott.

 

No change at either OC or DC would indicate that ownership is content with the season and how it ended.

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Here's why: 

 

Why aren't you volunteering to clean stadium for free is you are so into cleaning?

[DuckyBoys]

its going to get worse  Our divisional foes are getting better  Jets/Dophins have nice rosters minus qb  Pats have a hof coach who maximizes his team and can actually steal games coaching  We got a big goofy kid playing his heart out behind a hot dumpster of a line and a soft ass defense   McDermott/Beane plan on riding Josh into the sunset

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

Beane is the bigger problem. He simply cannot draft impact players and that is now the most important thing, by far, when it comes to his duties since Josh's contract is kicking in 

[Repulsif]

the "tougher/physical" thing I read everywhere unpleasantly reminds me the 4 last times the Bills went to a SB

and was the ultimate reason they could not finally win it

🤕

[BillMafia716ix]

A team that finished 13-3 is not cleaning house. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

11 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

If you lose but still have hope for the future, it's easier to move on. But, this morning, my hope for the future is gone. I genuinely believe we won't sniff a Super Bowl with McD. When it gets to this point, ownership needs to start thinking about changes that will restore hope.

Unfortunately this is where I am as well.  I think we are at the ceiling with Beane and McDermott, I dont see it getting any better.  Actually I feel like it's going to get worse.  Year after year of terrible drafting is going to hurt them.   They barely even acknowledge that we have to play offense too in the draft.  So many wasted defensive draft pics.  Multiple 1st and 2nds, and none if them have been hits.  I have no faith in Beane drafting anymore.  He hit on Josh Allen, thats basically his resume

Edited January 24, 2023 by Gunsgoodtime

[Governor]

Dungy was brought in to make Indy’s soft defense less soft. He got about half way towards that goal.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

10 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

A team that finished 13-3 is not cleaning house. 

With all due respect, big ***** deal.

 

McDermott is a latter day schottenheimer or Dan Reeves 

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, quincy said:

The most painful season in my ten years of being a Buffalo Bills fan.

 

It isn't even in my top 5. It really isn't. The Bills played their worst game of the season on Sunday, they deserved to lose to a team who arguably are more talented in any event. It was disappointing, but this season stopped feeling like a potential Championship run weeks ago to me. Too beaten up with injuries, especially on defense. Hyde and Von done for the year, Ed Oliver playing with more strapping than an Egyptian mummy, Jordan Poyer playing with a torn knee, Tre White looking like a shadow of his former pre-ACL self. And just not enough offensive talent to overcome, which some of us worried about going into the year. And that is without factoring in the adversity of the storms, Damar Hamlin and everything else. 

 

I didn't find Sunday painful. Disappointing, but not painful. Last season was painful because that still felt like a Championship chance at the point it ended. This didn't to me. Where we go next is interesting. The Bills have focussed the last two off-seasons on running things back, on keeping the band together, on the "one more heave" approach. That option isn't really available to them this offseason. There is going to be more roster turnover than there has been since probably 2019. The regime needs a good offseason and it needs to show progress in some of its weaknesses next year. The window is open a little narrower the next two years (until the cap explosion comes and Josh suddenly looks like an absolute bargain). The pressure is on this regime, no question. But the Bills are not gonna be reactionary following this loss and nor should they be.

[John from Riverside]

You’re just pissing in the wind they’re not doing that

[Yantha]

I wouldn't clean house fully, no.

 

But just like any year, you have to evaluate and cut the fat. 

 

This is a playoff team, not a team in rebuild mode.