Josh Allen injury update(officially questionable - expected to start per Ian Rappaport)

[DJB]

 

Well F**K

[Steptide]

I really hope they don't hold Allen out. If he can play, he needs to play. Keenum isn't winning us any games 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

Well F**K

I am relieved.  Elbows are tricky injuries.  This might be best case scerio.  Slightly torn UCL is manageable and treatable.  If Josh needs to rest a game or two, thats alright.  It's long season.  That's our QB.  We need him healthy for the playoffs

[GunnerBill]

think that's the season folks.

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I really hope they don't hold Allen out. If he can play, he needs to play. Keenum isn't winning us any games 

I'm not saying Keenum is going to win the game for us.  I am saying the Bills have mucho talent, and they can win games without Josh.  Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl

[MasterStrategist]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

think that's the season folks.

What? Care to elaborate, it's being deemed short term...granted haven't heard from Coach or Josh again.

[VaMilBill]

Does a slightly torn UCL tear more by throwing?

Any doctors on here? I’d prefer to not destroy Josh’s career by playing him now. If he can’t zip the ball or sling it there is no use in risking him and playing him IMO 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

What? Care to elaborate, it's being deemed short term...granted haven't heard from Coach or Josh again.

 

I think a torn UCL even a relatively minor tear is likely to affect Josh's play moving forward. And I don't think we can win a Superbowl with a compromised Josh Allen.

 

Maybe I am being too defeatist. But to my mind our Superbowl hopes are basically done. Not saying we won't win another game or anything but he probably needs surgery and rest to be at his best and that is not happening until the offseason

Edited November 9, 2022 by GunnerBill

[BuffaninSarasota]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think a torn UCL even a relatively minor tear is likely to affect Josh's play moving forward. And I don't think we can win a Superbowl with a compromised Josh Allen.

 

Maybe I am being too defeatist. But to my mind our Superbowl hopes are basically done. Not saying we won't win another game or anything but he probably needs surgery and rest to be at his best and that is not happening until the offseason

Probably needs surgery? From a sprain? Don’t think that can be a logical suggestion right now.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

Probably needs surgery? From a sprain? Don’t think that can be a logical suggestion right now.

 

It's not a sprain it is a partial tear. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It's not a sprain it is a partial tear. 

A sprain is a partial tear. It all depends on the severity.

[Hebert19]

21 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

What? Care to elaborate, it's being deemed short term...granted haven't heard from Coach or Josh again.

This.  He likely won't practice this week but still play and thay will be trend for rest of year.  Limited all week play Sunday 

7 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

Probably needs surgery? From a sprain? Don’t think that can be a logical suggestion right now.

These can be micro tears too.  Basically any inconsistencies in the UCL. Could be something that actually heals while he plays. He will need to keep swelling down but this won't impact much. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

A sprain is a partial tear. It all depends on the severity.

 

Yes, this is a grade 2, so there is a partial tear. Not a grade 1 that just means the ligament is stretched. A partial tear isn't healing itself throwing on it all the time. So at the very least it needs the sort of rest and rehab that can't happen in season. In most cases I'd imagine for someone who throws for a living the belt and braces approach would be surgery to repair. I don't think we will see Josh at his best the rest of the way in 2022. 

 

Obviously I hope I am wrong. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Hebert19]

Typically, UCL injuries come in the form of microtears to the fibrous bands which make it up. These microtears can develop as a result of overextension, overexertion, or blunt trauma. Some of the most likely causes are: Catching a fall with an extended elbow.

 

Surgery is only used if there is significant degeneration of the UCL...this typically occurs from overuse. 

[Johnnycage46]

6 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Typically, UCL injuries come in the form of microtears to the fibrous bands which make it up. These microtears can develop as a result of overextension, overexertion, or blunt trauma. Some of the most likely causes are: Catching a fall with an extended elbow.

 

Surgery is only used if there is significant degeneration of the UCL...this typically occurs from overuse. 

 

At first I was like, wow this guy knows a ton about UCL injuries then I saw this online lol:

 

[MasterStrategist]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, this is a grade 2, so there is a partial tear. Not a grade 1 that just means the ligament is stretched. A partial tear isn't healing itself throwing on it all the time. So at the very least it needs the sort of rest and rehab that can't happen in season. In most cases I'd imagine for someone who throws for a living the belt and braces approach would be surgery to repair. I don't think we will see Josh at his best the rest of the way in 2022. 

 

Obviously I hope I am wrong. 

Where are you getting your information on the following:

1. Partial tear?  Ian R. reported a sprain, then sorta snuck in "tiny tear".  Has the severity, grade 2 as you just said, actually been released or are you speculating?

 

2. Surgery: again are you speculating?

 

 

[RobbRiddick]

This is still very vague. We need something definitive. Right now I don't know whether to piss my pants or praise God

[Wayne Cubed]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think a torn UCL even a relatively minor tear is likely to affect Josh's play moving forward. And I don't think we can win a Superbowl with a compromised Josh Allen.

 

Maybe I am being too defeatist. But to my mind our Superbowl hopes are basically done. Not saying we won't win another game or anything but he probably needs surgery and rest to be at his best and that is not happening until the offseason

 

Eh?

 

He had a Grade 2 UCL sprain his rookie season, rested 4 weeks and then came back. He didn't require surgery, so I'm not sure where you are getting that from for a Grade 2 sprain. Grade 3, yea then we are probably talking Tommy John's Surgery but literally no one is saying that or speculating that.

Will he be at his best if he rests it a bit and wears the brace like he did his rookie year? Hard to know, he was a completely different thrower and player back then. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Where are you getting your information on the following:

1. Partial tear?  Ian R. reported a sprain, then sorta snuck in "tiny tear".  Has the severity, grade 2 as you just said, actually been released or are you speculating?

 

2. Surgery: again are you speculating?

 

1. I read Rapsheet differently. He said "sprain (slight tear)." That is the definition of a grade 2 injury to a ligament. Grade 1 is a sprain. Grade 2 is a sprain and partial tear. Grade 3 is torn ligament. So while this is not the worst case scenario, it also isn't the best case scenario. 

 

2. Yes, surgery is speculation. They could choose just to rest, a partial tear can heal on its own. But when an individual uses that ligament in their everyday life then in my experience (again it is soccer more than football so leg more than knee) they generally go belt and braces and repair surgically. 

12 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Eh?

 

He had a Grade 2 UCL sprain his rookie season, rested 4 weeks and then came back. He didn't require surgery, so I'm not sure where you are getting that from for a Grade 2 sprain. Grade 3, yea then we are probably talking Tommy John's Surgery but literally no one is saying that or speculating that.

Will he be at his best if he rests it a bit and wears the brace like he did his rookie year? Hard to know, he was a completely different thrower and player back then. 

 

Okay probably was an overstatement. It AT LEAST needs proper rest that it won't get in season and it might need surgery. I just don't see a way we get an uncompromised Josh Allen the rest of the year. 

[Wayne Cubed]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay probably was an overstatement. It AT LEAST needs proper rest that it won't get in season and it might need surgery. I just don't see a way we get an uncompromised Josh Allen the rest of the year. 

 

Hard to know really. Like I said, Josh was a different thrower of the ball in 2018 and a different QB in general. I don't recall thinking he was limited throwing, ie couldn't make the throws, back then. Though that's just my memory. 

 

All the whispers seem to indicate this is less severe than 2018? 

[Franco_92]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

1. I read Rapsheet differently. He said "sprain (slight tear)." That is the definition of a grade 2 injury to a ligament. Grade 1 is a sprain. Grade 2 is a sprain and partial tear. Grade 3 is torn ligament. So while this is not the worst case scenario, it also isn't the best case scenario. 

 

2. Yes, surgery is speculation. They could choose just to rest, a partial tear can heal on its own. But when an individual uses that ligament in their everyday life then in my experience (again it is soccer more than football so leg more than knee) they generally go belt and braces and repair surgically. 

 

Okay probably was an overstatement. It AT LEAST needs proper rest that it won't get in season and it might need surgery. I just don't see a way we get an uncompromised Josh Allen the rest of the year. 

Lol, GTFO.

[Hebert19]

29 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

At first I was like, wow this guy knows a ton about UCL injuries then I saw this online lol:

 

Well I've had one before but yes I looked up microtears. 

[mannc]

51 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think a torn UCL even a relatively minor tear is likely to affect Josh's play moving forward. And I don't think we can win a Superbowl with a compromised Josh Allen.

 

Maybe I am being too defeatist. But to my mind our Superbowl hopes are basically done. Not saying we won't win another game or anything but he probably needs surgery and rest to be at his best and that is not happening until the offseason

That’s what happens when you don’t protect your quarterback.  Josh can only survive so long when he’s facing jailbreaks on half of his drop backs.

[HOUSE]

We can have nice things

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, HOUSE said:

We can have nice things

Lupus still on the table imo 

[Hebert19]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Hard to know really. Like I said, Josh was a different thrower of the ball in 2018 and a different QB in general. I don't recall thinking he was limited throwing, ie couldn't make the throws, back then. Though that's just my memory. 

 

All the whispers seem to indicate this is less severe than 2018? 

Not to mention the poster is talking like Josh is a pitcher and this is a tear based on overuse.  Totally different injuries and throwing motion.  

 

He will miss 1 game max and play thru it as long as they deal it can't get worse. 

[Casey D]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

1. I read Rapsheet differently. He said "sprain (slight tear)." That is the definition of a grade 2 injury to a ligament. Grade 1 is a sprain. Grade 2 is a sprain and partial tear. Grade 3 is torn ligament. So while this is not the worst case scenario, it also isn't the best case scenario. 

 

2. Yes, surgery is speculation. They could choose just to rest, a partial tear can heal on its own. But when an individual uses that ligament in their everyday life then in my experience (again it is soccer more than football so leg more than knee) they generally go belt and braces and repair surgically. 

 

Okay probably was an overstatement. It AT LEAST needs proper rest that it won't get in season and it might need surgery. I just don't see a way we get an uncompromised Josh Allen the rest of the year. 

If you think Diggs tweeted "rejoice" last night because Josh is done, I've got some swampland to sell you.  Diggs and Allen are so tight.  Have a little faith.

[BillMafia716ix]

I don’t expect Allen to play this week. Let him rest for a week or 2. This is why you signed a Vet back up. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

That’s what happens when you don’t protect your quarterback.  Josh can only survive so long when he’s facing jailbreaks on half of his drop backs.

 

Agree. 

6 minutes ago, Casey D said:

If you think Diggs tweeted "rejoice" last night because Josh is done, I've got some swampland to sell you.  Diggs and Allen are so tight.  Have a little faith.

 

I don't think Josh is done. Where did I say that? I think Josh will probably not miss a game. The question is whether it compromises performance. Maybe I am just in a very pessimistic mood but I can't see how it doesn't. 

8 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Not to mention the poster is talking like Josh is a pitcher and this is a tear based on overuse.  Totally different injuries and throwing motion.  

 

He will miss 1 game max and play thru it as long as they deal it can't get worse. 

 

I have not suggested he will miss any games. I worry that it will compromise him from here out though. And I don't think we can win a Superbowl with a compromised Josh Allen. Our offense is too reliant on him. 

[hondo in seattle]

16 minutes ago, mannc said:

That’s what happens when you don’t protect your quarterback.  Josh can only survive so long when he’s facing jailbreaks on half of his drop backs.

 

Exactly!  Beane's done a remarkable job overall building this roster.   But I continue to be puzzled why he doesn't get better bodyguards for his MVP.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by hondo in seattle

[eball]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

I don't think Josh is done. Where did I say that? I think Josh will probably not miss a game. The question is whether it compromises performance. Maybe I am just in a very pessimistic mood but I can't see how it doesn't. 

 

I have not suggested he will miss any games. I worry that it will compromise him from here out though. And I don't think we can win a Superbowl with a compromised Josh Allen. Our offense is too reliant on him. 

 

Well, if there is any silver lining to this injury, while it heals it may force Josh to take the “easy stuff” teams are giving him rather than continue to force the ball downfield.

 

[Johnnycage46]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Well, if there is any silver lining to this injury, while it heals it may force Josh to take the “easy stuff” teams are giving him rather than continue to force the ball downfield.

 

 

Unless defenses adjust and take away the short stuff, if they know (again this is an assumption based on injury status) Allen's deeper throws won't have the same velocity or accuracy on them.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Unless defenses adjust and take away the short stuff, if they know (again this is an assumption based on injury status) Allen's deeper throws won't have the same velocity or accuracy on them.

Well, right after he was hurt, he did throw a ball 70 yards in the air that hit Gabe Davis in the hands. 

[Greg S]

6 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I don’t expect Allen to play this week. Let him rest for a week or 2. This is why you signed a Vet back up. 

 

I think this is what will happen also. Keenum can win games. The Bills really need the OL and Singletary to step up to help out Case and the passing game. I still think the Bills win this week. The entire teams knows it will have to step up. Run the ball effectively, use play action with the short passing game with a few deep shots thrown in. The defense needs to regain its early season form. The Vikings are good, but I still think that 7-1 record is a paper tiger. Except for the fish they really haven't beaten anyone. Buffalo can claim wins at LAR, BAL, KC with a home win over TEN.

[Johnnycage46]

Just now, Gugny said:

Well, right after he was hurt, he did throw a ball 70 yards in the air that hit Gabe Davis in the hands. 

 

Yeah true.  I would imagine there is more tenderness and swelling now though compared to 5 minutes after the injury.

[YoloinOhio]

I predict the team will let his status play out until game time or at least Friday. They will want the Vikes to have to prepare for two stylistically different QBs. 

[RiotAct]

46 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

This is still very vague. We need something definitive. Right now I don't know whether to piss my pants or praise God

as Diggs tweeted last night, “Rejoice”!

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Yeah true.  I would imagine there is more tenderness and swelling now though compared to 5 minutes after the injury.

I’m hoping they can shoot him up with some cortisone or something, but I’m no doctor (one of very few non-doctors on TBD), so I’m not even sure that would help. 

[Johnnycage46]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I predict the team will let his status play out until game time or at least Friday. They will want the Vikes to have to prepare for two stylistically different QBs. 

 

My worry is that McD will slow play this like he does with all injuries, even if the rest is not completely necessary.  Now I'm not trying to say there is evidence that McD has held players out that were completely healthy, but I've seen comments from some players this year that if the game they were sitting was the playoffs they would be playing.

[GunnerBill]

It does show for all the talking that people did about the Bills fantastic training programme and facilities and the correlation to their injury record the past couple of seasons the reality is that even if you are leading edge sports science wise etc there is always an element of luck involved in staying relatively injury free. 

 

This year the bug has bitten the Bills well and truly. So frustrating because I think fully healthy this is the best team in football.