How is a new RB going to make a difference behind this OL?

[JohnNord]

I’ve seen many Bills fans clamoring to trade for a new running back.   I think that the bigger issue is that the offensive line just doesn’t win matchups.  
 

Watch how easily other teams are able to pick up 2-3 yards on 3rd and 1 and the Bills struggle to get 1 yard.  In fact, the Bills OL is by far the worst run blocking unit in the league.  

 

So how is a running back going to fix that?  

 

Unless your running back is going to break a run like Saquon Barkley after getting hit in the backfield, I don’t see how a new RB is going to fix the problems on the offensive line.  

[Freddie's Dead]

Both Motor and Moss lack the elite vision to see the cutback lanes that could lead to big runs.  They tend to follow their blocks until they get swallowed up.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It’s not even the OL. We literally had the same conversations last year. What changed late last year when they started running better? I don’t know. They’ll be fine on offense though.

 

Everyone always wants to blame the OL. IT’s everything. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Victory Formation]

Singletary is underrated, I don’t care what anyone says.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, Victory Formation said:

Singletary is underrated, I don’t care what anyone says.

They stopped subbing him out late last year and the run game improved. 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

The O-line has underperformed, but they's a chance it could gel like it did late last year. Kromer brought a new scheme so it might take them some time to adjust. I wouldn't rule out a trade for an interior lineman.

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

The O-line has underperformed, but they's a chance it could gel like it did late last year. Kromer brought a new scheme so it might take them some time to adjust. I wouldn't rule out a trade for an interior lineman.

I can really see an off-season where kromer works with Beane to get some linemen that fit his scheme better. I want to see at least 2 OL in the draft. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

I don’t see him as a bell cow RB, but a great option in a RBBC type of situation. I hope we extend him. He would be a big loss if he leaves.

We don’t need a bell cow RB. I don’t want a bell cow RB either. I want someone that can make people miss and make a play. Singletary has shown that ability.

 

Their short yardage issues IMO is a scheming issue. They suck on short yardage because they’re predictable.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve seen many Bills fans clamoring to trade for a new running back.   I think that the bigger issue is that the offensive line just doesn’t win matchups.  
 

Watch how easily other teams are able to pick up 2-3 yards on 3rd and 1 and the Bills struggle to get 1 yard.  In fact, the Bills OL is by far the worst run blocking unit in the league.  

 

So how is a running back going to fix that?  

 

Unless your running back is going to break a run like Saquon Barkley after getting hit in the backfield, I don’t see how a new RB is going to fix the problems on the offensive line.  

a guy that can run inside with power, make guys miss with quickness and win around the edge with speed would make a difference. 
 

The bills have one of each of the above no guy that can do any two or all three.

 

it could make a difference 

[Augie]

20 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve seen many Bills fans clamoring to trade for a new running back.   I think that the bigger issue is that the offensive line just doesn’t win matchups.  
 

Watch how easily other teams are able to pick up 2-3 yards on 3rd and 1 and the Bills struggle to get 1 yard.  In fact, the Bills OL is by far the worst run blocking unit in the league.  

 

So how is a running back going to fix that?  

 

Unless your running back is going to break a run like Saquon Barkley after getting hit in the backfield, I don’t see how a new RB is going to fix the problems on the offensive line.  

 

We would have to learn new jersey numbers. I was hoping I was done with that. 

[Low Positive]

In order to have an effective running game, you have to stick with it. Running is much less efficient than passing. You will punt more. You will have more plays for negative yardage. Everyone raves about Saquon Barkley’s year, but his 146 yards last game against the Bears took 33 carries. They only had 16 passing attempts. If a QB had 146 yards passing on 33 attempts, he would get benched.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

In order to have an effective running game, you have to stick with it. Running is much less efficient than passing. You will punt more. You will have more plays for negative yardage. Everyone raves about Saquon Barkley’s year, but his 146 yards last game against the Bears took 33 carries. They only had 16 passing attempts. If a QB had 146 yards passing on 33 attempts, he would get benched.

Part of our problem is we are a shotgun offense. We don’t do a whole lot under center in running formations. I think we’re very predictable in our run game.

 

 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Part of our problem is we are a shotgun offense. We don’t do a whole lot under center in running formations. I think we’re very predictable in our run game.

 

 

 

I’m too lazy to look, but I’d love to know our percentage of shotgun vs the rest of the league. I’m trying to get a grip on how we sit as opposed to the rest. Curious.  🤷‍♂️

[SCBills]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s not even the OL. We literally had the same conversations last year. What changed late last year when they started running better? I don’t know. They’ll be fine on offense though.

 

Everyone always wants to blame the OL. IT’s everything. 

Allen started running more.  
 

That’s the answer.  That’s why we ran better.  He opened everything up.  

[LABILLBACKER]

34 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Both Motor and Moss lack the elite vision to see the cutback lanes that could lead to big runs.  They tend to follow their blocks until they get swallowed up.  

The problem with our run game is mediocre running backs and awful run blockers. This isn't a one or the other argument.  I think Dorsey realizes this obvious flaw and has cleverly decided to make the dump offs our run attack. It would take time to overhaul both deficiencies. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Allen started running more.  
 

That’s the answer.  That’s why we ran better.  He opened everything up.  

No. Singletary’s production increased. More attempts.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[ArtVandalay]

Singletary is undersized and one of the least athletic RBs in the league.

 

Don't hit that disagree reaction, it's a measured indisputable fact. 

 

 

We lack explosion at the position massively at a position where athleticism matters most. We lack size, strength, and athleticism at the position, real bad combo. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

Do we even really have an offensive problem?  We’re 5th in the league in scoring, 3rd in yards, fewest punts in the NFL, etc.  This includes playing in the rain one game, a sauna another, starters playing less than three quarters in another.  They can pass all day for all I care, it’s more exciting anyway!  At this point, my biggest concern is the team staying healthy.

[Einstein]

A new running back would hopefully see cutback lanes that Singletary is oblivious to.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Einstein

[Buffalo_Stampede]

22 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Singletary is undersized and one of the least athletic RBs in the league.

 

Don't hit that disagree reaction, it's a measured indisputable fact. 

 

 

We lack explosion at the position massively at a position where athleticism matters most. We lack size, strength, and athleticism at the position, real bad combo. 

They drafted athleticism and speed but don’t feel comfortable using him.

 

Singletary was top 10 in yard after contact last year. 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

4 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can really see an off-season where kromer works with Beane to get some linemen that fit his scheme better. I want to see at least 2 OL in the draft. 

We haven't taken an offensive lineman in the 1st round of the draft since Eric Wood back in '09. That has to change if we want this offense to reach its potential.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Allen2Diggs

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

Singletary is underrated, I don’t care what anyone says.

Exactly.  It’s like people forget the chunk yardage he regularly chews up and focus on one play or two where the RB was stopped (and more often it was Moss).  

[buffblue]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

In order to have an effective running game, you have to stick with it. Running is much less efficient than passing. You will punt more. You will have more plays for negative yardage. Everyone raves about Saquon Barkley’s year, but his 146 yards last game against the Bears took 33 carries. They only had 16 passing attempts. If a QB had 146 yards passing on 33 attempts, he would get benched.

Unless your Baker Mayfield

[chongli]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve seen many Bills fans clamoring to trade for a new running back.   I think that the bigger issue is that the offensive line just doesn’t win matchups.  
 

Watch how easily other teams are able to pick up 2-3 yards on 3rd and 1 and the Bills struggle to get 1 yard.  In fact, the Bills OL is by far the worst run blocking unit in the league.  

 

So how is a running back going to fix that?  

 

Unless your running back is going to break a run like Saquon Barkley after getting hit in the backfield, I don’t see how a new RB is going to fix the problems on the offensive line.  

 

I though Aaron Kromer was supposed to fix all that with his zone blocking scheme?

 

From an article:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/what-aaron-kromer-brings-to-the-bills-is-exactly-what-they-need:

 

Quote

 

The feeling here at Bills Central is that they hit a grand slam by bringing former offensive line coach Aaron Kromer back to Buffalo.

 

This is because he checks all the boxes. Every single one.

 

Proven run blocking and schemes? Check.

 

Proven quarterback protection? Check.

 

Ability to work around the constraints of the current CBA that limits the amount of practice contact? Check.

 

Connection with his players? Check.

 

During Kromer's previous stint, in which he ran the offensive line in 2015 and 2016, the Bills led the NFL in rushing both seasons.

 

In his four seasons as the New Orleans Saints' offensive line coach from 2009-12, they allowed the fewest sacks in the league in that span and won the Super Bowl in the 2009 season.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

We haven't taken an offensive lineman in the draft since Eric Wood back in '09. Thats has to change if we want this offense to reach its potential.

What drafts have you been watching?  We drafted quite a few OL under this regime.  Including back to back picks in 2021 when we took two DE’s followed by 2 OT’s.  Not to mention Ford and Wyatt Teller.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Part of our problem is we are a shotgun offense. We don’t do a whole lot under center in running formations. I think we’re very predictable in our run game.

 

 

We are very predictable in our run game, we telegraph our intentions pretty much every time, so far KD has not delivered on that aspect of the offense in a way I had hoped for, that being, doing it successfully…, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They stopped subbing him out late last year and the run game improved. 

Thanks for this.   It's one of the important responses to all the complaints about the running game.  Last season was instructive.

 

McDermott understands that his team has to peak late in the season.   It's part of being a great team.   

 

So, one thing he does is that he platoons the running backs early in the season, not to see who can do it best, but to try not to burn out whoever might turn out to be the best.  Late in the season, he wants whoever is best to be relatively fresh.  

 

He also seems to like tall, athletic offensive linemen instead of roadgraders.  He thinks the tall, athletic guys can handle all aspects of the position well, instead of being good at some parts and not so good at others.  That means that his running game will have to be based more on finesse than power, and even so, they won't be the best finesse blockers.   Since they won't be the best, McDermott doesn't want to show off his run blocking scheme too early.   He wants his linemen to grow into it.  

 

So, I think the Bills will continue to struggle in the run game until November and December.  That's when we'll see heavier doses of Motor and less of Moss.   And they're hoping, I'm sure, that Cook will mature into a change-of-pace contributor.  

[chongli]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Part of our problem is we are a shotgun offense. We don’t do a whole lot under center in running formations. I think we’re very predictable in our run game.

 

 

 

Kelly ran mostly a shot gun in the 90's, and Thurman had multiple 1,000 yard rushing seasons. So did Detroit with Barry Sanders.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What drafts have you been watching?  We drafted quite a few OL under this regime.  Including back to back picks in 2021 when we took two DE’s followed by 2 OT’s.  Not to mention Ford and Wyatt Teller.

We've taken O-lineman mostly in the later rounds and the one earlier one (Ford in the 2nd) was a complete bust.

 

Considering the resources we've put into the D-line, we're scrimping on the offensive line in comparison.

 

I think Josh's athleticism and pocket presence allow them to not worry as much about protection, but the running game is suffering.

[Low Positive]

Just now, Allen2Diggs said:

We've taken O-lineman mostly in the later rounds and the one earlier one (Ford in the 2nd) was a complete bust.

 

Considering the resources we've put into the D-line, we're scrimping on the offensive line in comparison.

 

I think Josh's athleticism and pocket presence allow them to not worry as much about protection, but the running game is suffering.

I don’t want a “good running game” because it require 25-30 rushing attempts a game. That’s not winning football in 2022.

[JoshAllin]

Look at Cinci they have Burrow and legit passing attack and they constantly run with Mixon for 82 attempts 2.7 y/a. Cinci is a bottom 5 offense in current rankings. Don't wan't this happening with the bills...

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, motorj said:

Look at Cinci they have Burrow and legit passing attack and they constantly run with Mixon for 82 attempts 2.7 y/a. Cinci is a bottom 5 offense in current rankings. Don't wan't this happening with the bills...

Bengals fans want Mixon cut. I live here so I know.

[Big Blitz]

31 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I don’t want a “good running game” because it require 25-30 rushing attempts a game. That’s not winning football in 2022.

 

 

37 carries 189 yards

 

 

--- The Chiefs 2 days ago

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Both Motor and Moss lack the elite vision to see the cutback lanes that could lead to big runs.  They tend to follow their blocks until they get swallowed up.  

 

 

No.

 

when they get good blocking they're both productive, Singletary in particular is excellent.

 

It's the line.

[Big Blitz]

Future 2022 NFC Champion Eagles (and the only team in the NFC I'm remotely worried about) thru 4 games:

 

165 rushing yards a game 

 

Miles Sanders:  72 carries 356 yards 

 

 

For perspective:

 

Motor

Moss 

Cook:

 

271 yards rushing 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Thurman#1]

37 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I don’t want a “good running game” because it require 25-30 rushing attempts a game. That’s not winning football in 2022.

 

 

 A good running game doesn't require 25 - 30 attempts. Where is that written? That's just something you're making up.

 

A good running game requires a good running game. That's it. 

 

A good running game would help. It's not absolutely necessary, but there will absolutely be times and situations where it would help. IMO as the line gels, our run game will get better, as it did last year near the end of the season. There's no guarantee, though.

[Thurman#1]

25 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Future 2022 NFC Champion Eagles (and the only team in the NFC I'm remotely worried about) thru 4 games:

 

165 rushing yards a game 

 

Miles Sanders:  72 carries 356 yards 

 

 

For perspective:

 

Motor

Moss 

Cook:

 

271 yards rushing 

 

 

Think we couldn't find some bad teams that run a lot too? The Giants, Browns, Bears, Falcons and Eagles are the #1 to #5 teams this year at running yards. The Eagles have showed success so far, but that top five is not exactly Murderer's Row. The top five in YPC is equally unimposing: The Lions, Giants, Ravens, Bears and Seahawks.

 

The fact that one team runs a lot doesn't show much beyond the fact that that one team runs a lot. IMO the Eagles are a good team that won't compete for a championship this year. I could definitely be wrong about that, but we'll see.

 

The Rams last year won the SB while averaging 4.0 YPC, much worse than the Bills. 25th ranked in terms of run yards and also 25th best in terms of YPC. The year before that, the championship Bucs were 28th in run yards and 26th in YPC. 

 

That doesn't mean that a run game won't help. But those two data points absolutely and without doubt show you don't need a great or even a good run game to win a championship.

 

 

 

Anyway, the OP is right that the problem in our run game is mostly OL problems. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Thurman#1

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for this.   It's one of the important responses to all the complaints about the running game.  Last season was instructive.

 

McDermott understands that his team has to peak late in the season.   It's part of being a great team.   

 

So, one thing he does is that he platoons the running backs early in the season, not to see who can do it best, but to try not to burn out whoever might turn out to be the best.  Late in the season, he wants whoever is best to be relatively fresh.  

 

He also seems to like tall, athletic offensive linemen instead of roadgraders.  He thinks the tall, athletic guys can handle all aspects of the position well, instead of being good at some parts and not so good at others.  That means that his running game will have to be based more on finesse than power, and even so, they won't be the best finesse blockers.   Since they won't be the best, McDermott doesn't want to show off his run blocking scheme too early.   He wants his linemen to grow into it.  

 

So, I think the Bills will continue to struggle in the run game until November and December.  That's when we'll see heavier doses of Motor and less of Moss.   And they're hoping, I'm sure, that Cook will mature into a change-of-pace contributor.  

 

This is my hypothesis too. I think they know Singletary is miles better than Moss, but they don't want him to be toast when the playoffs roll around. 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

I don’t want a “good running game” because it require 25-30 rushing attempts a game. That’s not winning football in 2022.

I don't think we need to run that often (unless we have a huge lead) but we have been unable to get anything going on the ground and we are forced to play out of the shotgun on 3rd and short since they can't even get enough of a push to run a qb sneak.

[mrags]

Easy answer is our RBs absolutely suck. They have no vision, no elite speed, no special abilities that separate them from JAGs. When we get an actual good RB we will excel.