Two Head Injuries Within 4 Days For Tua - Does He Turn Out Like Trent Edwards?

[machine gun kelly]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. There is like a 1% chance that what happened here is the doc screwed up. Either something went awry in the process and the independent examination did not take place or the Dolphins ignored it or, despite what it looked like to all of us watching on TV, Tua was not in fact concussed. 

Yeah bud.  These independent neuros report to the nfl, not the team or it’s both simultaneously.  I’ve known the team docs for Tampa, and they in no short measure are screwing with their license fudging an evaluation.

 

they do a neurological exam and benchmark to prior to te season to see if their are abnormalities and they stay in concussion protocol whether you’re NFL or a kid in HS.

 

they screw their career worth a ton.  The owners are not going to be able to influence their evaluation even if they tried.  That would be a non recoverable nightmare.

 

30 years ago, I’ll agree, but not now.  It’s why so many specialists are approached and they decline these contracts.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

 

Literally got benched for Fitzpatrick

 

And on top of that they literally tried to replace him for a serial sexual assaulter and a 45 year old QB this offseason. 

 

 

[Jerome007]

I know it's fun to blame the Dolphins for last week's "false concussion", as it sure looked very suspect, but it's an independent neurologist doing the tests, not the team itself.

 

While I personally  think he had a concussion against the Bills and thus was more vulnerable, that hit yesterday could cause damage all on its own, even to a man who never had one. It was nasty!

[PS 56]

9 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

He shouldn't have played the second half of the Bills game, plus the Dolphins didn't disclose his head injury and didn't list him on the injury report for it (had him listed for back/ankle).  He most likely had lingering effects of a concussion at the start of last nights game, and that hit finished him off.  

 

Obviously they couldn't have listed him for a head injury after hiding it the second half against the Bills Sunday.

 

 

Tua had no business finishing the Bills game.  He will be out for a while now if he comes back at all.  Dolphins staff should be under the microscope for letting him play.  

[Billz4ever]

How the whole thing went down from last week to this week's game seems real shady to me.  Miami has some explaining to do as this week simply looks like an extension of last week and what happens to a guy already concussed and gets a head snap back hit again.

[Chandler#81]

I think he’s already worse than Trent ever was. It’s to the punt now where just blowing on him gives him a concussion. He gets hurt frequently and with less impact. He’s washed up. How long it takes him and the Dolphins to realize it is his how we dominate the Division. jmo

[Marv's Neighbor]

Would those unusual helmets, used in camp, have prevented this?  If so, when will they be introduced?

[First Round Bust]

WGR radio had a physican assistant with neuro experience call-in today..says you dont have to hit your head on the ground as the whiplash effect would cause Tua brain to move and make contact with a solid...entirely possible a minor concussion was masked in and of itself with the back injury being the focus, if so two concussions...

[Nuncha]

19 minutes ago, PS 56 said:

Tua had no business finishing the Bills game.  He will be out for a while now if he comes back at all.  Dolphins staff should be under the microscope for letting him play.  

absolutely

[Dan Darragh]

9 hours ago, eball said:

Oh, and eff the stinking Fish. 

THIS

[IronyAbounds]

9 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

It's this type of thing that will bring down the league for good and they only bring it upon themselves.

It's probably an unpopular opinion, but I honestly wonder how any parent in good conscience can allow their kid to play football. Even guys who don't play past high school seem to end up with bad knees, hips and shoulders at a relatively early age, and the possible brain damage is frightening. Adults can make their own decisions, but you don't allow kids to do dangerous stuff and football seems to be close to if not in that category.

[boater]

...blah blah blah... Independent Doctor ...blah blah blah.

 

That's weak sauce as rationale to find Miami guilt free. Independent Docs make mistakes, or worse, they might be stealth-homers flown in with the team.

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

Lol are you that naive? Sorry I don't mean that personally

 

The NFL is run by owners. One of them is the Mami dolphins owner. They are a profit driven enterprise.

 

They have a history of brushing head injuries under the rug.

 

So you do not think that maybe they have enough influence to make the outcome what they want?

Lol. Speaking of being naive, how many doctors are going to put their career on the line for that? And why would an owner even want a concussed player on the field? Not to mention exerting that influence on a doctor during the 15 minutes he had to get cleared. Do you seriously think that Ross carried a bag of money down and handed it to a doc so he’d clear a concussed Tua to play QB? And we’re not even considering the fact that Bridgewater is probably a better quarterback than Tua.

 

The NFL did bury the long term effects of head trauma on players for a lot of years. But that’s far different than an owner putting a concussed QB back on the field because, you know, QBs need to be able to think clearly and quickly to do their jobs. That’s the dumbest part of this whole conspiracy. That an owner or HC would even want a mentally impaired QB on the field. 

[Rat-boy]

8 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

Wait. We didn't play the dolphins this week and lose to them and there is still a thread about Tua and concussions.

 

I was under the impression such threads were only the result of us being sore losers and just wanted him to be benched so we could win.

Well, it seems now to have been hijacked by yet another Trent Edwards conversation and responses to a Dolphin troll if that is any consolidation Tuel. 😀

[sonyab1974]

12 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

He shouldn't have played the second half of the Bills game,

 

 

 

Nope he really shouldn't!!! That poor guy is worse now! How awful!!!

[Ralonzo]

6 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Go visit PFF, Football outsiders ,etc if you want to see the metrics on Tua.

 

Or check out his stats yourself on NFL.com, ESPN, etc.

 

I really don't care how effective he is at screen passes or how he can throw to the first read 20 times in a row accurately. Crown him if you want, but he is who we thought he was.

[uticaclub]

Trent Edwards played for years after he left Buffalo. Trent was never the QB Tua is or was. He played 4 or 5 good games in beginning for 2008, he never even passed for over 300 yards in a game

[What a Tuel]

8 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Couldn't you say the same thing about Mahomes/Allen/etc?

 

Rarely do elite QB's play a great 4 quarters, week after week.

 

I get that I'm not going to convince some folks that Tua/Miami are a great team even though the evidence is right in front of the homers if they paid attention last week.

 

Either way I still see Miami as the division favorite right now until proven otherwise. If Tua is out for an extended period of time that obviously changes though.

 

Miami isn't a division favorite. By what metric are they a division favorite? Miami fans? Or because they have a 1 game lead 3 games into a 17 game season? 

 

Sheesh, you are the one showing homerism. 

[Nextmanup]

7 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Come on man this is silly.

 

The overall body of work is all that matters and again we can nitpick every HC, QB, skill position player, etc in the same way around the league and find less than desirable numbers to fit an agenda.

 

All I'm saying is the evidence is there that Tua has emerged as one of the leagues elite players at the QB position. And quite frankly this isn't a surprise considering his numbers in his first 2 NFL seasons were better than JA17 and many other of the top QB's in the league if you go back far enough.

I agree with you that Tua is a lot better than most of this board thinks he is, and the Dolphins are a lot better as a team this year than this board thinks as well.

 

But you mentioned that Miami has to be the favorite to win the AFC East this year.

 

That I can't agree with.  We massively outplayed them despite losing on the scoreboard in kind of a crazy game weather-wise and with our lineup completely decimated by injury.

 

I genuinely believe we will beat them by 2 or 3 TDs when we play them again in Buffalo, assuming our injuries are cleaned up by then.

 

Miami is a good team this year, but we still have to be the division favorite, and by a solid margin.

 

Also, some people are now saying Tua should not return this season.

 

If Tua misses 3 or 4 weeks, forget it.  Miami will lose all those games and fall behind.

 

If he is gone the whole season, Miami might have a shot at picking first in the draft next year.

 

 

 

[Sharky7337]

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Lol. Speaking of being naive, how many doctors are going to put their career on the line for that? And why would an owner even want a concussed player on the field? Not to mention exerting that influence on a doctor during the 15 minutes he had to get cleared. Do you seriously think that Ross carried a bag of money down and handed it to a doc so he’d clear a concussed Tua to play QB? And we’re not even considering the fact that Bridgewater is probably a better quarterback than Tua.

 

The NFL did bury the long term effects of head trauma on players for a lot of years. But that’s far different than an owner putting a concussed QB back on the field because, you know, QBs need to be able to think clearly and quickly to do their jobs. That’s the dumbest part of this whole conspiracy. That an owner or HC would even want a mentally impaired QB on the field. 

Doctors get things wrong all the time friend. If they lost their jobs for it, there would be no doctors.

 

If someone pays a person big bucks to be an independent consultant, no one is coming after them for malpractice for consulting work or taking their certification.

 

It's too difficult to prove and questionable whether they could even find anything criminal with it.

 

And in this case the patient was probably the number one person who wanted to go back in.

 

So who is gonna get in trouble?

Edited October 1, 2022 by Sharky7337

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

Doctors get things wrong all the time friend. If they lost their jobs for it, there would be no doctors.

 

They really don't. Do they make mistakes sometimes? Absolutely. But it is very rare when you look at mistakes as a percentage of their caseload. 

[Scott7975]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They really don't. Do they make mistakes sometimes? Absolutely. But it is very rare when you look at mistakes as a percentage of their caseload. 

 

In the United States, 12 million people are affected by medical diagnostic errors each year.

An estimated 40,000 to 80,000 people die annually from complications from these misdiagnoses.

Women and minorities are 20 to 30 percent more likely to be misdiagnosed.

[Nelius]

11 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

While I personally  think he had a concussion against the Bills and thus was more vulnerable, that hit yesterday could cause damage all on its own, even to a man who never had one. It was nasty!

 

You think? I've watched it repeatedly and have it pulled up right now - I thought he snapped the back of his head harder against Buffalo.

 

He was ragdolled a bit and whipped to the ground but it wasn't anything like an open field hit that a blindsided receiver might take for example. I got to assume Josh and most QBs jump right up after a roll to the ground like that. Exactly why that reaction was probably due to multiple head knocks.

[GunnerBill]

41 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

In the United States, 12 million people are affected by medical diagnostic errors each year.

An estimated 40,000 to 80,000 people die annually from complications from these misdiagnoses.

Women and minorities are 20 to 30 percent more likely to be misdiagnosed.

 

And what percentage of total diagnoses is that? It's small. And I imagine a lot of those are more complicated than a concussion examination. 

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

Doctors get things wrong all the time friend. If they lost their jobs for it, there would be no doctors.

 

If someone pays a person big bucks to be an independent consultant, no one is coming after them for malpractice for consulting work or taking their certification.

 

It's too difficult to prove and questionable whether they could even find anything criminal with it.

 

And in this case the patient was probably the number one person who wanted to go back in.

 

So who is gonna get in trouble?

In my first response I allowed for an honest mistake by the doc. That’s not the same as  people claiming that the Dolphins somehow arranged to get a concussed Tua back in the field. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 9/30/2022 at 8:55 AM, North Buffalo said:

If he did not have a CT scan... no way to tell... would love to see that CT

reports were he was getting an MRI. 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 9/30/2022 at 8:05 AM, bmur66 said:

We don't know for sure that he suffered a concussion during the Bills game. Yes it appeared that way but I would be shocked if he was allowed to play if he was concussed. He didn't show any affects later in the game.

The dude couldn't walk.

 

I'd say we know 

[Nextmanup]

People, this doesn't have anything to do with mistakes by doctors.

They aren't stupid.

 

They knew 100% what was going on and wanted to keep the No. 1 QB going. I'm sure a certain % of the NFL would do exactly the same, while EVERYONE maintains they would not, and that player safety is No. 1

There is a reason why the protocol was invented in the first place, and it's not because NFL teams have player safety as their number one concern.

 

 

[Sharky7337]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They really don't. Do they make mistakes sometimes? Absolutely. But it is very rare when you look at mistakes as a percentage of their caseload. 

Mistakes aren't just incorrect diagnoses. It's failures to diagnose something at all also.

 

I can make numerous examples but I don't want to get into the weeds on this.  Most Doctors these days are nothing but educated guess making prescription peddlers. It's rare to find a good doctor anymore that can even prescribe a medication without having to google it.

 

Whay do you call the medical student who graduated last in his or her class?

 

A doctor.

 

All the same.

 

----

The Journal of Patient Safety is a quarterly, peer-reviewed medical journal dedicated to identifying and improving practices for preventing deaths and injuries among medical patients.  In September of 2013, the Journal of Patient Safety published a study examining the frequency of “patient harms associated with hospital care” (i.e. injuries and illness caused by doctor errors in hospital settings).

The study divided doctor mistakes or “preventable adverse events” (PAEs) into five categories: commission errors (performance errors), omission errors (failing to perform a necessary procedure), communication errors (provider-provider, provider-patient), context errors (failing to take all relevant factors into account), and diagnostic errors (misdiagnosis, e.g. missed cancer diagnosis).

The study, which compared data taken from earlier analyses, disputed earlier findings from 2010, in which the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human Services initially stated that PAEs were a factor in 15,000 deaths per month, or about 180,000 deaths per year.

The Journal of Patient Safety study determined that the true numbers were even greater, closer in scope to 210,000 to as many as 440,000 patient deaths each year.  At the “low” end of the spectrum, that’s an average of 575 deaths per day.  If the higher number is correct, that average increases to about 1,205 preventable patient deaths per day – 50 fatalities every hour.

----

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Sharky7337

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

Mistakes aren't just incorrect diagnoses. It's failures to diagnose something at all also.

 

I can make numerous examples but I don't want to get into the weeds on this.  Most Doctors these days are nothing but educated guess making prescription peddlers. It's rare to find a good doctor anymore that can even prescribe a medication without having to google it.

 

Whay do you call the medical student who graduated last in his or her class?

 

A doctor.

 

All the same.

 

I am sorry but that us utter, utter nonsense.

[Sharky7337]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry but that us utter, utter nonsense.

I gave you numbers from a study if you can't handle that I'm sorry.  Go back and read the study I quoted.

 

I have personally experienced it myself when they missed seeing my fathers tumor on an xray and had another doctor find it on the same xray in seconds.

 

I have had to diagnose myself and was correct on three different issues my doctor just wanted me to pop a pill on and ignore. Sorry but its true in my experience.

 

You haven't been offered free samples of some pill and seen the lunches brought in by pharmaceutical reps? Do you really think most doctors are in it to help people these days? 

 

If so I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Shoot, now they wont even discuss a test result from a previous appointment or get a prescription refill unless you get a new appointment just to make sure they're getting their share often enough.

 

I didn't want to get into the weeds on this but your assumption on errors is incorrect based on the evidence I provided regardless of my own anecdotal experience with the pill peddlers.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Sharky7337

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And what percentage of total diagnoses is that? It's small. And I imagine a lot of those are more complicated than a concussion examination. 

 

10-20%

 

Here I'll give you how rare it is.  Its so rare that my neck injury with 6 bads discs that was compressing my spinal cord by 50% was misdiagnosed as a shoulder injury and that I should just go do some physical therapy and I'll be fine. I didnt buy it so I got a second opinion but that took me months because workers comp didnt want to approve it until I tried physical therapy.  I fought it.  All the while my body was degrading to the point that I could no longer lift my left arm.  I finally paid for the ***** doctors visit myself to get a different opinion.  He gave me the MRI that I originally wanted that the other doctor refused to (just did a shoulder xray cus god forbid they do something that might cost workers comp some money.). Dr told me it was so bad if I went to physical therapy I would likely be paralyzed or dead right now.  I have a ton of problems and a lot of that has to do with how long my spine was compressed because some doctors around here wont do the right thing and do the needed tests when its on workers comp because workers comp doesnt like paying for it.  They like to do the minimal necessary then work there way up. A lot of doctors follow that corrupt ***** instead of just doing what they know is the right thing because they dont want to deal with comp.  Yes I was told that by the new doctor too.

 

Story two will be much shorter.  My mother when I was a teenager use to play softball.  She slid into home plate and messed up her knee. I dont remember what the exact injury was but it needed surgery.  The doctor operated initially on the wrong knee.

 

So dont sit there and tell me mistakes are rare.  They arent rare.  They happen all the time. I dont care if you want to use some well its a small 10 -20% thing.  Its happened twice in my lifetime.  It happens to 12 million people yearly.  Call it rare compared to case load, I don't care but it still happens all the time.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I just love reading all the armchair GM’s battle it out. 
 

Props to the effort though 

[Scott7975]

54 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

People, this doesn't have anything to do with mistakes by doctors.

They aren't stupid.

 

They knew 100% what was going on and wanted to keep the No. 1 QB going. I'm sure a certain % of the NFL would do exactly the same, while EVERYONE maintains they would not, and that player safety is No. 1

There is a reason why the protocol was invented in the first place, and it's not because NFL teams have player safety as their number one concern.

 

 

 

I agree and I dont.  What I dont know is if Tua just went to the sideline and claimed from the get go it was his back.  Its obvious to everyone it was not.  The doctors may have been corrupt or Tua just might not have shown any symptoms in their tests so they went along with the "its the back."  Its really hard to know what really happened.  One thing I can totally say from this situation is that the protocols need to change to remove that loophole so that when someone shows those signs its just an automatic "no go" no matter what.  Tua was 100% failed in this situation and that should never happen again to anyone.

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

The dude couldn't walk.

 

I'd say we know 

it was just the heat!!!

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Something that gets over shadowed because everyone sees and thinks head injury but back injuries are serious matters too

 

A back injury caused a player to fall down while walking, to me that has to be a pretty serious back injury, how does he clear that

 

Backs are really important in life too, not as much as a head but backs can be scary injuries 

[GunnerBill]

Okay this has gone down a nonsensical rabbit hole. I am truly sorry that you have had bad experiences with doctors @Scott7975 that is sad to hear. But I'm afraid it is absolutely colouring your opinions in this matter. It is not worth debating any further. You think doctors are "educated guess making prescription peddlers" and I am never going to agree with that. They are serious professionals, doing a serious job, and getting it right the overwhelming majority of the time. 

 

If the examination was carried out, as people are reporting, by the independent neurologist in Miami then I am going to side with his professionalism over your anecdotes. 

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay this has gone down a nonsensical rabbit hole. I am truly sorry that you have had bad experiences with doctors @Scott7975 that is sad to hear. But I'm afraid it is absolutely colouring your opinions in this matter. It is not worth debating any further. You think doctors are "educated guess making prescription peddlers" and I am never going to agree with that. They are serious professionals, doing a serious job, and getting it right the overwhelming majority of the time. 

 

If the examination was carried out, as people are reporting, by the independent neurologist in Miami then I am going to side with his professionalism over your anecdotes. 

 

Wait.  Where did I say doctors are "educated guess making prescription peddlers?"  I said nothing of the sort.  I said two things:

 

Drs make mistakes.  They make mistakes all the time.  So does everyone in every job.  I also said there are a lot of corrupt doctors out there.  There have been 1000's of doctors put in jail just over prescription fraud with opioides.  There have been 1000s of doctors put in jail, lost their license, etc of insurance fraud.  This is undeniable fact.  Im sorry you want to think all professionals are well... professional just because you are one and you arent corrupt and dont make many mistakes.  Thats just a bias.  Mistakes are made all the time.  There are corrupt doctors everywhere.  I said nothing about "educated guess making prescription peddlers"

 

There is nothing anectodte about the obvious symptoms Tua displayed for millions to see.  Why do you side with NFL doctors over other top Neurologists that have said from day one it was a concussion?  Are those doctors just making a mistake?  They are trained to see the visual signs.  Tua hit 3 or 4 of those signs on like a 6 list sign.  A concussion test is meaningless and just meant to appease everyone for the NFL.  Concussion tests can be fooled just like lie detector tests can be fooled. We have players speaking out about that happening.  They can be fooled because concussion symptoms can take hours to days to show up.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Wait.  Where did I say doctors are "educated guess making prescription peddlers?"  I said nothing of the sort.  I said two things:

 

Drs make mistakes.  They make mistakes all the time.  So does everyone in every job.  I also said there are a lot of corrupt doctors out there.  There have been 1000's of doctors put in jail just over prescription fraud with opioides.  There have been 1000s of doctors put in jail, lost their license, etc of insurance fraud.  This is undeniable fact.  Im sorry you want to think all professionals are well... professional just because you are one and you arent corrupt and dont make many mistakes.  Thats just a bias.  Mistakes are made all the time.  There are corrupt doctors everywhere.  I said nothing about "educated guess making prescription peddlers"

 

I am sorry, my bad that was @Sharky7337 - similar screen names at a quick glance. I misquoted you, that was unintentional. 

 

I am not telling you every professional is perfect, but I think you have a bias against them because of some personal experiences. I am still going to side with the professional, I'm sorry. 

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am sorry, my bad that was @Sharky7337 - similar screen names at a quick glance. I misquoted you, that was unintentional. 

 

I am not telling you every professional is perfect, but I think you have a bias against them because of some personal experiences. I am still going to side with the professional, I'm sorry. 

 

Thats fine.  It happens. Quick pun... people make mistakes 😃 (that was meant for humor not a dig or arguement)

 

 

I added this part in anticipation of that response actually:

 

There is nothing anectodte about the obvious symptoms Tua displayed for millions to see.  Why do you side with NFL doctors over other top Neurologists that have said from day one it was a concussion?  Are those doctors just making a mistake?  They are trained to see the visual signs.  Tua hit 3 or 4 of those signs on like a 6 list sign.  A concussion test is meaningless and just meant to appease everyone for the NFL.  Concussion tests can be fooled just like lie detector tests can be fooled. We have players speaking out about that happening.  They can be fooled because concussion symptoms can take hours to days to show up.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975