Daboll's Play Calling -- The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

[HIT BY SPIKES]

I am just wondered what the thoughts are of how Brian Daboll's play calling is working in general and one some particular plays specifically.

 

Long time listener.  First time caller.

[Freddie's Dead]

Welcome, first-time caller.  It would be helpful if you gave examples of what you considered to be a good, bad, and ugly call, just to jump-start the discussion.  Here are my examples.

 

The Good - Screen pass to Motor for his 2nd TD.  Execution helps, but getting Motor on the edge is always a good idea.

 

Jet sweep to McKittrick.  We should run this play more than once every two games (that's the Bad part)

 

The Bad - Any RPO to Motor out of the shotgun.  They're rarely effective, and when in the red zone, it's a wasted down.

 

The Ugly - Motor in the Wildcat.  No threat to throw, it's only marginally better when they run Wildcat with McKittrick.  You can't take your best player off the field, even for one play.  JA17 is the best Wildcat RB in the league.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

My criticisms of the Bills this season have been their stubborn view that it must be Diggs, Sanders, Beasley at all times, and Davis, McKenzie can only

fill in.

 

The give up plays in the Red Zone also are not clear. Where we just dive into the middle of the line.

I also do not like plays in goal to go situations where the Bills don’t take shots into the End Zone, or when they try and throw out of tight formations because it worked once against the Colts in the Playoffs.

 

The Bills get static sometimes as well, where there is no pre-snap motion, they don’t move Diggs, there are no jet sweeps.

 

Among the changes they made that work: they finally got Zack Moss off the field, and this gave them a foundation in the run game.

 

Also, they have started using McKenzie in the Red Zone. He needs to be on the field more.

 

I think the Bills need to use the middle of the field more, it still feels like they don’t throw any slants or bubble screens, no crosses after New England. Nothing feels easy.
 

Everything still feels like Josh Allen miracle toe tapping routes on the sidelines with receivers having to dive out of bounds to grab footballs. 
 

Knox has to become part of this offense again.

[BuffalOhio]

20 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Welcome, first-time caller.  It would be helpful if you gave examples of what you considered to be a good, bad, and ugly call, just to jump-start the discussion.  Here are my examples.

 

The Good - Screen pass to Motor for his 2nd TD.  Execution helps, but getting Motor on the edge is always a good idea.

 

Jet sweep to McKittrick.  We should run this play more than once every two games (that's the Bad part)

 

The Bad - Any RPO to Motor out of the shotgun.  They're rarely effective, and when in the red zone, it's a wasted down.

 

The Ugly - Motor in the Wildcat.  No threat to throw, it's only marginally better when they run Wildcat with McKittrick.  You can't take your best player off the field, even for one play.  JA17 is the best Wildcat RB in the league.

Why do you call him McKittrick?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

And maybe this has to do with pressure and Allen not standing in the pocket as much.

 

The Bills offense feels choppy because Allen has to/feels the need to escape, roll out of the pocket and throw, so naturally the routes are more towards the sidelines. 
 

Sanders was good on in-cut routes at the beginning of the season, my fear with him has been he has looked out of gas since Week 6 or so.

[Mango]

I would like to see Allen under center more. Singletary runs better there as well. I think it also helps Josh get the ball out quicker.

 

I am unsure if Daboll is really pass happy as a play caller, or if Josh Hs a tendency to be really hot/cold with a run game that’s struggled to produce for weeks at a time, so he pushes to get QB1 in rhythm. 

[GunnerBill]

My thoughts:

 

1. All offensive coordinators, every single one of them, get too much criticism from fans for playcalling whereas players get too little blame for poor execution. In general I think this is the case with this board's approach to Daboll and particularly this year. The Bills ended the regular season 5th in yards and 3rd in points and that is with only two elite talents on the entire offense and only 1 guy who was drafted in the first round. Their 3rd best offensive player (Dawkins has really only hit his straps the last month after being way below his best most of the year). 

 

2. However, there are legitimate grounds to criticise Brian Daboll's playcalling and, particularly, use of personnel. I think we have seen far too much reliance on the older guys - Sanders and Beasley - because Daboll trusts them to run the right routes and make the right route adjustments based on personnel. It was interesting that there was that series where Josh had miscommunications with Knox and Davis because they had read one thing off the coverage and Josh had read another. That is the thing with the E-P offense. It puts a lot of responsibility on your receivers to make the same read and adjustment as your Quarterback. People talk about how rookie receivers always bust in New England - some of that is the same thing. 

 

3. I think his redzone playcalling at times this year is confusing. He clearly (and understandably) doesn't trust the offensive line to hold up in the redzone where the defense can use the extra defender of the lines in coverage and throw an extra guy at the pass rush. That is why he tries to back them off with the threat of the run and RPO looks. The problem is that despite them trying to force it the Bills are just bad at executing those plays when Josh does anything other than keep it. Singletary isn't really that type of back and our offensive line isn't great at run blocking where it can't just get a head of steam up and barrel into the defenders in front of it. I am less bothered than most fans by the gimmick plays.... but I was concerned especially early in the season by the lack of plays being called down there where the ball was thrown into the endzone. That has got marginally better as we have gone along. 

 

4. On redzone efficiency - most surprising stat of the day? The Bills were more efficient scoring touchdowns in the redzone in 2021 than in 2020 (62.3% vs 61.04%).

 

5. As the season has gone on they have clearly made more of an effort to establish the run. I am all but convinced that comes from the Head Coach who is fine being pass heavy when the passing game is humming but gets instinctively nervous about it when the passing game stalls. The problem is Josh Allen is not the same Quarterback in a run heavy scheme as he in a pass heavy scheme. Josh is a rhythm guy. He gets in his rhythm and dialled in and he is borderline unstoppable. When you are running the ball a lot and asking him to make 2 or 3 throws per drive he isn't the same player. Run, run, 3rd down pass, is normally followed by a punt. Daboll has struggled trying to face both ways - on the one hand his boss's desire to run the ball more and on the other his Quarterback's need to get into rhythm. 

 

6. And to follow on from the end of point 5, yesterday was the nadir of that confusion. The playcalling yesterday was a mess. Disjointed, lacking in clarity of thought and process. There is no path to the Superbowl for the Bills this way. They have to get back to their identity on offense and that is the ball in Josh Allen's hands. I am fine giving Motor 15 or so carries. Yesterday we had 15 passes to 14 running back carries at one point. That is not the way this team wins. It wins on Josh Allen's right arm and, at times, Josh Allen's legs. I am fine with trying to diversify but not if it limits the impact of Josh Allen. That is akin to taking your best player off the field. 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

My thoughts:

 

1. All offensive coordinators, every single one of them, get too much criticism from fans for playcalling whereas players get too little blame for poor execution. In general I think this is the case with this board's approach to Daboll and particularly this year. The Bills ended the regular season 5th in yards and 3rd in points and that is with only two elite talents on the entire offense and only 1 guy who was drafted in the first round. Their 3rd best offensive player (Dawkins has really only hit his straps the last month after being way below his best most of the year). 

 

2. However, there are legitimate grounds to criticise Brian Daboll's playcalling and, particularly, use of personnel. I think we have seen far too much reliance on the older guys - Sanders and Beasley - because Daboll trusts them to run the right routes and make the right route adjustments based on personnel. It was interesting that there was that series where Josh had miscommunications with Knox and Davis because they had read one thing off the coverage and Josh had read another. That is the thing with the E-P offense. It puts a lot of responsibility on your receivers to make the same read and adjustment as your Quarterback. People talk about how rookie receivers always bust in New England - some of that is the same thing. 

 

3. I think his redzone playcalling at times this year is confusing. He clearly (and understandably) doesn't trust the offensive line to hold up in the redzone where the defense can use the extra defender of the lines in coverage and throw an extra guy at the pass rush. That is why he tries to back them off with the threat of the run and RPO looks. The problem is that despite them trying to force it the Bills are just bad at executing those plays when Josh does anything other than keep it. Singletary isn't really that type of back and our offensive line isn't great at run blocking where it can't just get a head of steam up and barrel into the defenders in front of it. I am less bothered than most fans by the gimmick plays.... but I was concerned especially early in the season by the lack of plays being called down there where the ball was thrown into the endzone. That has got marginally better as we have gone along. 

 

4. On redzone efficiency - most surprising stat of the day? The Bills were more efficient scoring touchdowns in the redzone in 2021 than in 2020 (62.3% vs 61.04%).

 

5. As the season has gone on they have clearly made more of an effort to establish the run. I am all but convinced that comes from the Head Coach who is fine being pass heavy when the passing game is humming but gets instinctively nervous about it when the passing game stalls. The problem is Josh Allen is not the same Quarterback in a run heavy scheme as he in a pass heavy scheme. Josh is a rhythm guy. He gets in his rhythm and dialled in and he is borderline unstoppable. When you are running the ball a lot and asking him to make 2 or 3 throws per drive he isn't the same player. Run, run, 3rd down pass, is normally followed by a punt. Daboll has struggled trying to face both ways - on the one hand his boss's desire to run the ball more and on the other his Quarterback's need to get into rhythm. 

 

6. And to follow on from the end of point 5, yesterday was the nadir of that confusion. The playcalling yesterday was a mess. Disjointed, lacking in clarity of thought and process. There is no path to the Superbowl for the Bills this way. They have to get back to their identity on offense and that is the ball in Josh Allen's hands. I am fine giving Motor 15 or so carries. Yesterday we had 15 passes to 14 running back carries at one point. That is not the way this team wins. It wins on Josh Allen's right arm and, at times, Josh Allen's legs. I am fine with trying to diversify but not if it limits the impact of Josh Allen. That is akin to taking your best player off the field. 

 

The Bills have largely abandoned their 4-wide and 5-wide formations after Pittsburgh.

 

I did not like McDermott’s halftime comment where he remarked about how the Bills got into a rhythm somehow on the last drive of the first half?
 

Oh you mean when you decided to throw the ball your offense started moving? What a shock. 
 

I agree with you on McDermott, running and punting is his safe space. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

My thoughts:

 

1. All offensive coordinators, every single one of them, get too much criticism from fans for playcalling whereas players get too little blame for poor execution. In general I think this is the case with this board's approach to Daboll and particularly this year. The Bills ended the regular season 5th in yards and 3rd in points and that is with only two elite talents on the entire offense and only 1 guy who was drafted in the first round. Their 3rd best offensive player (Dawkins has really only hit his straps the last month after being way below his best most of the year). 

 

2. However, there are legitimate grounds to criticise Brian Daboll's playcalling and, particularly, use of personnel. I think we have seen far too much reliance on the older guys - Sanders and Beasley - because Daboll trusts them to run the right routes and make the right route adjustments based on personnel. It was interesting that there was that series where Josh had miscommunications with Knox and Davis because they had read one thing off the coverage and Josh had read another. That is the thing with the E-P offense. It puts a lot of responsibility on your receivers to make the same read and adjustment as your Quarterback. People talk about how rookie receivers always bust in New England - some of that is the same thing. 

 

3. I think his redzone playcalling at times this year is confusing. He clearly (and understandably) doesn't trust the offensive line to hold up in the redzone where the defense can use the extra defender of the lines in coverage and throw an extra guy at the pass rush. That is why he tries to back them off with the threat of the run and RPO looks. The problem is that despite them trying to force it the Bills are just bad at executing those plays when Josh does anything other than keep it. Singletary isn't really that type of back and our offensive line isn't great at run blocking where it can't just get a head of steam up and barrel into the defenders in front of it. I am less bothered than most fans by the gimmick plays.... but I was concerned especially early in the season by the lack of plays being called down there where the ball was thrown into the endzone. That has got marginally better as we have gone along. 

 

4. On redzone efficiency - most surprising stat of the day? The Bills were more efficient scoring touchdowns in the redzone in 2021 than in 2020 (62.3% vs 61.04%).

 

5. As the season has gone on they have clearly made more of an effort to establish the run. I am all but convinced that comes from the Head Coach who is fine being pass heavy when the passing game is humming but gets instinctively nervous about it when the passing game stalls. The problem is Josh Allen is not the same Quarterback in a run heavy scheme as he in a pass heavy scheme. Josh is a rhythm guy. He gets in his rhythm and dialled in and he is borderline unstoppable. When you are running the ball a lot and asking him to make 2 or 3 throws per drive he isn't the same player. Run, run, 3rd down pass, is normally followed by a punt. Daboll has struggled trying to face both ways - on the one hand his boss's desire to run the ball more and on the other his Quarterback's need to get into rhythm. 

 

6. And to follow on from the end of point 5, yesterday was the nadir of that confusion. The playcalling yesterday was a mess. Disjointed, lacking in clarity of thought and process. There is no path to the Superbowl for the Bills this way. They have to get back to their identity on offense and that is the ball in Josh Allen's hands. I am fine giving Motor 15 or so carries. Yesterday we had 15 passes to 14 running back carries at one point. That is not the way this team wins. It wins on Josh Allen's right arm and, at times, Josh Allen's legs. I am fine with trying to diversify but not if it limits the impact of Josh Allen. That is akin to taking your best player off the field. 

 

Totally agree with this, especially numbers 5 and 6. I can only hope that Daboll didn't want to show much yesterday. The playcalling seemed to be a mess yesterday. Put the ball in #17s hands for hopefully the whole playoffs and supplement it with Singletary. Please, please, please don't try to balance them!

[Beerball]

46 minutes ago, HIT BY SPIKES said:

I am just wondered what the thoughts are of how Brian Daboll's play calling is working in general and one some particular plays specifically.

 

Long time listener.  First time caller.

Two screens in the first quarter, good.

 

No screens the rest of the way (that I can recall), bad.

 

Singletary in wildcat formation, ugly.

[eball]

21 minutes ago, BuffalOhio said:

Why do you call him McKittrick?

 

It’s an old inside joke at TBD.  When McKenzie was acquired there was another similar player named McKittrick that some folks thought was obtained (maybe he even was, briefly, I don’t remember).  It went back and forth for a bit, but some of us get a kick out of still calling Lil Dirty McKittrick.

 

[Nuncha]

Quick passes to the LOS keep being called with a success rate of 0.003%.  Real head scratcher.

[Niagara Dude]

49 minutes ago, HIT BY SPIKES said:

I am just wondered what the thoughts are of how Brian Daboll's play calling is working in general and one some particular plays specifically.

 

Long time listener.  First time caller.

I think Dabol's lack of feel for the game cost us in our first match-up against the Pats.  We have the better QB and we need to show it on Saturday, I also believe Sean needs to drop his loyalty towards Beasley and play Mackenzie more.  Until the Pats show they can defend him with one guy you keep running plays for him. They tried covering him with one player in our last match-up and he torched them.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I think Dabol's lack of feel for the game cost us in our first match-up against the Pats.  We have the better QB and we need to show it on Saturday, I also believe Sean needs to drop his loyalty towards Beasley and play Mackenzie more.  Until the Pats show they can defend him with one guy you keep running plays for him. They tried covering him with one player in our last match-up and he torched them.  

Yeah and that’s my question.

 

After the @ New England game, how does that not become a bigger part of the game plan.

 

Greg Cosell said it was opponent specific routes for McKenzie. 
 

But how can that approach work against New England, but it’s back to the same old 30% snaps against the Falcons and Jets? 
 

Beasley creates no separation. He’s lost 1-2 steps.

[bmur66]

The Bills need to station someone next to Coach Daboll for the entire game. When the Bills jump out to an early 10 point lead and Coach Daboll starts to think about getting cute and calling up fancy plays, this person will slap him (gingerly) in the face and remind him to keep doing what got them here. When Coach Daboll starts feeling a little anxious this person will again slap him and remind him that they do have a running game too. When the Bills are lighting up the other team and things are looking good this person will also be available to get Coach Daboll hot dogs, burgers, beverages etc.....

Edited January 10, 2022 by bmur66

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

49 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

My criticisms of the Bills this season have been their stubborn view that it must be Diggs, Sanders, Beasley at all times, and Davis, McKenzie can only

fill in.

 

The give up plays in the Red Zone also are not clear. Where we just dive into the middle of the line.

I also do not like plays in goal to go situations where the Bills don’t take shots into the End Zone, or when they try and throw out of tight formations because it worked once against the Colts in the Playoffs.

 

The Bills get static sometimes as well, where there is no pre-snap motion, they don’t move Diggs, there are no jet sweeps.

 

Among the changes they made that work: they finally got Zack Moss off the field, and this gave them a foundation in the run game.

 

Also, they have started using McKenzie in the Red Zone. He needs to be on the field more.

 

I think the Bills need to use the middle of the field more, it still feels like they don’t throw any slants or bubble screens, no crosses after New England. Nothing feels easy.
 

Everything still feels like Josh Allen miracle toe tapping routes on the sidelines with receivers having to dive out of bounds to grab footballs. 
 

Knox has to become part of this offense again.

I will say this about yesterday, Davis was way more than a fill in.  Gabe had 14 targets but came away with only 3 catches; not good at all.  They need to get on the same page. It seems like Allen and the wideouts were not at all on the same page yesterday.  Is that Allen's fault, the receivers fault, or Daboll's fault, not sure but they better clean that up because it is way too late in the season to be as way off as they were.

 

[pigpen65]

Not enough screens. Not enough misdirection runs. Not enough McKenzie at WR

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Offside#76FredSmerlas said:

I will say this about yesterday, Davis was way more than a fill in.  Gabe had 14 targets but came away with only 3 catches; not good at all.  They need to get on the same page. It seems like Allen and the wideouts were not at all on the same page yesterday.  Is that Allen's fault, the receivers fault, or Daboll's fault, not sure but they better clean that up because it is way too late in the season to be as way off as they were.

 

 

Gabe had a rough game yesterday. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

My thoughts:

 

1. All offensive coordinators, every single one of them, get too much criticism from fans for playcalling whereas players get too little blame for poor execution. In general I think this is the case with this board's approach to Daboll and particularly this year. The Bills ended the regular season 5th in yards and 3rd in points and that is with only two elite talents on the entire offense and only 1 guy who was drafted in the first round. Their 3rd best offensive player (Dawkins has really only hit his straps the last month after being way below his best most of the year). 

 

2. However, there are legitimate grounds to criticise Brian Daboll's playcalling and, particularly, use of personnel. I think we have seen far too much reliance on the older guys - Sanders and Beasley - because Daboll trusts them to run the right routes and make the right route adjustments based on personnel. It was interesting that there was that series where Josh had miscommunications with Knox and Davis because they had read one thing off the coverage and Josh had read another. That is the thing with the E-P offense. It puts a lot of responsibility on your receivers to make the same read and adjustment as your Quarterback. People talk about how rookie receivers always bust in New England - some of that is the same thing. 

 

3. I think his redzone playcalling at times this year is confusing. He clearly (and understandably) doesn't trust the offensive line to hold up in the redzone where the defense can use the extra defender of the lines in coverage and throw an extra guy at the pass rush. That is why he tries to back them off with the threat of the run and RPO looks. The problem is that despite them trying to force it the Bills are just bad at executing those plays when Josh does anything other than keep it. Singletary isn't really that type of back and our offensive line isn't great at run blocking where it can't just get a head of steam up and barrel into the defenders in front of it. I am less bothered than most fans by the gimmick plays.... but I was concerned especially early in the season by the lack of plays being called down there where the ball was thrown into the endzone. That has got marginally better as we have gone along. 

 

4. On redzone efficiency - most surprising stat of the day? The Bills were more efficient scoring touchdowns in the redzone in 2021 than in 2020 (62.3% vs 61.04%).

 

5. As the season has gone on they have clearly made more of an effort to establish the run. I am all but convinced that comes from the Head Coach who is fine being pass heavy when the passing game is humming but gets instinctively nervous about it when the passing game stalls. The problem is Josh Allen is not the same Quarterback in a run heavy scheme as he in a pass heavy scheme. Josh is a rhythm guy. He gets in his rhythm and dialled in and he is borderline unstoppable. When you are running the ball a lot and asking him to make 2 or 3 throws per drive he isn't the same player. Run, run, 3rd down pass, is normally followed by a punt. Daboll has struggled trying to face both ways - on the one hand his boss's desire to run the ball more and on the other his Quarterback's need to get into rhythm. 

 

6. And to follow on from the end of point 5, yesterday was the nadir of that confusion. The playcalling yesterday was a mess. Disjointed, lacking in clarity of thought and process. There is no path to the Superbowl for the Bills this way. They have to get back to their identity on offense and that is the ball in Josh Allen's hands. I am fine giving Motor 15 or so carries. Yesterday we had 15 passes to 14 running back carries at one point. That is not the way this team wins. It wins on Josh Allen's right arm and, at times, Josh Allen's legs. I am fine with trying to diversify but not if it limits the impact of Josh Allen. That is akin to taking your best player off the field. 

 

 

Agree with most of what you said.  I'll add though WRT #5.  Particularly yesterday, almost constantly running on 1st down really is dump.  Let Allen throw, just a short 5 to 6 yard pass so now we have 2md and 4.  Then can easily run or pass and keeps the defense on it's toes.  The problem with that strategy is Allen rather than taking the 5 to 6 yard pass will tend to look for the 15 yard pass and often not complete, so now we have 2nd and 10 instead.  I'll blame Allen there for not taking the check downs enough this year.  Well actually last season, he didn't have to take them as the 15 yarders were working at a very high rate.

 

And yes am rather surprised at #4

[ALLEN1QB]

Yesterday was a bad day at the office

[chris heff]

Some of you have already said this, but here are the things that bothered me. Singletary in the Wildcat is ridiculous when your QB is Josh Allen. If you run the ball on first down and gain 5 or 6 go RPO on second down, or just throw it. Get the play called and get the right personnel on the field, enough with using time outs to prevent delay of game penalty. 
 

After the game, when my blood pressure lowered, with sometime to reflect, I think they felt they could stop the Jets (which they obviously did), hence the conservative play calling in the second and third quarter. Don’t throw the ball around into that wind, only chance the Jets would have would be turnovers.

[Niagara Dude]

58 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Yeah and that’s my question.

 

After the @ New England game, how does that not become a bigger part of the game plan.

 

Greg Cosell said it was opponent specific routes for McKenzie. 
 

But how can that approach work against New England, but it’s back to the same old 30% snaps against the Falcons and Jets? 
 

Beasley creates no separation. He’s lost 1-2 steps.

It would be a mistake not starting him,  the Bills would be making it easier for the Pats to slide extra coverage over to Diggs. No one shaking in their boots worried about Beasley who is not as fast or quick in space.  When you play smallest WR'S they need to get separation because their catch radius is not as big.  Beasley seems to excel is soft zone coverage where he finds his spots.  He does not excel at running away from defenders ,  Pats play a lot of man to man & double up your top option

 

I am concerned that Sean will carry his loyaility card and continue to roll with Beasley.  This is the NFL,  good teams will keep running the same plays until a team shows it can stop it.

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, BuffalOhio said:

Why do you call him McKittrick?

 

A drunken post four years ago that welcomed Issac McKittrick to Buffalo.

[hondo in seattle]

I think this thread is hilarious.   I used to be an army officer.  Civilians, particularly media guys, used to suggest what we ought to do and then second-guess what we actually did.  Typically, the commentary was laughably clueless.   

 

The idea that a bunch of amateurs can critique a successful professional like Daboll who's devoted 20+ years of his life to an intense understanding of football is insane.   Of course, I'll do it anyway.

 

My thinking has to do with the offensive line.  Clearly this unit has struggled.  Some games, when the OL was particularly porous, I wanted to see Daboll call more quick-hitting passes so Josh wouldn't get killed.

 

And some folks who are far smarter than I am on blocking schemes have noted we've been more successful with gap than zone blocking.  Our lineman aren't, typically, big road-grading linemen who are going to push people back.  But some of them do have some mobility.   Our run game needs to play to the strength of our OL, not ask them to overcome their weaknesses.  

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I would like to see Allen under center more. Singletary runs better there as well. I think it also helps Josh get the ball out quicker.

 

I am unsure if Daboll is really pass happy as a play caller, or if Josh Hs a tendency to be really hot/cold with a run game that’s struggled to produce for weeks at a time, so he pushes to get QB1 in rhythm. 

 

Singletary in the I has been deadly.

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

The Bills need to station someone next to Coach Daboll for the entire game. When the Bills jump out to an early 10 point lead and Coach Daboll starts to think about getting cute and calling up fancy plays, this person will slap him (gingerly) in the face and remind him to keep doing what got them here. When Coach Daboll starts feeling a little anxious this person will again slap him and remind him that they do have a running game too. When the Bills are lighting up the other team and things are looking good this person will also be available to get Coach Daboll hot dogs, burgers, beverages etc.....

 

Ooh, Ooh, me, Mr. Kotter, ooooohhhhhhh!!!!!

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I would like to see Allen under center more. Singletary runs better there as well. I think it also helps Josh get the ball out quicker.

 

I am unsure if Daboll is really pass happy as a play caller, or if Josh Hs a tendency to be really hot/cold with a run game that’s struggled to produce for weeks at a time, so he pushes to get QB1 in rhythm. 

 

I think someone did a statistical breakdown of this.  The run game is more effective with Allen under center but the pass game is less effective.

So the Bills mostly run when Josh is under center.

Defenses have learned this tendency so it's become harder to run from this formation as the D is waiting for it.  

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Welcome, first-time caller.  It would be helpful if you gave examples of what you considered to be a good, bad, and ugly call, just to jump-start the discussion.  Here are my examples.

 

The Good - Screen pass to Motor for his 2nd TD.  Execution helps, but getting Motor on the edge is always a good idea.

 

Jet sweep to McKittrick.  We should run this play more than once every two games (that's the Bad part)

 

The Bad - Any RPO to Motor out of the shotgun.  They're rarely effective, and when in the red zone, it's a wasted down.

 

The Ugly - Motor in the Wildcat.  No threat to throw, it's only marginally better when they run Wildcat with McKittrick.  You can't take your best player off the field, even for one play.  JA17 is the best Wildcat RB in the league.

 I hated the wildcat.  Hated that sequence.  I’m fine with the run there - I would have preferred going for the throat with the wind and throwing the ball downfield.  Whatever.  Just don’t telegraph the run.  

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

My thoughts:

 

1. All offensive coordinators, every single one of them, get too much criticism from fans for playcalling whereas players get too little blame for poor execution. In general I think this is the case with this board's approach to Daboll and particularly this year. The Bills ended the regular season 5th in yards and 3rd in points and that is with only two elite talents on the entire offense and only 1 guy who was drafted in the first round. Their 3rd best offensive player (Dawkins has really only hit his straps the last month after being way below his best most of the year). 

 

 

 

 

Good point.  Play-calling is what OCs do on Sunday.  They prepare their team all week.  

 

There were times yesterday when Allen and his receivers didn't seem to be on the same page. 

 

Allen's fault?  Maybe. 

 

The receiver's fault?  Maybe.

 

Daboll's fault?  For sure. 

 

Daboll's job is to make this offense roll like a well-oiled machine.  Vince Lombardi, for example, excelled at this: EXECUTION.

 

But GunnerBill is right.  The statistical achievements of this offense are impressive.  3rd in points and 5th in yards with a weak offensive line.  That's great work on Daboll's part.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

Good point.  Play-calling is what OCs do on Sunday.  They prepare their team all week.  

 

There were times yesterday when Allen and his receivers didn't seem to be on the same page. 

 

Allen's fault?  Maybe. 

 

The receiver's fault?  Maybe.

 

Daboll's fault?  For sure. 

 

Daboll's job is to make this offense roll like a well-oiled machine.  Vince Lombardi, for example, excelled at this: EXECUTION.

 

But GunnerBill is right.  The statistical achievements of this offense are impressive.  3rd in points and 5th in yards with a weak offensive line.  That's great work on Daboll's part.  

 

So while the OC is ultimately accountable for that.... the true fault for that level of detail is the position coaches. That is on Chad Hall and Rob Boras IMO. 

[CincyBillsFan]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but the weather DOMINATED the offenses yesterday.  With the wind at their back the Bills put up 24 points in 2 quarters and gained most of their first downs and yardage (a very healthy 424 yards).  Going into the wind the Bills sputtered LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE NFL WOULD.  When the Bills had the wind they made the most of it.  That's how you win Rich Stadium wind games.

 

The problem was that the Bills went into the wind in the 2nd & 3rd quarter which resulted in a magnified sense that the offense was floundering either due to play calling or player performance. Had we had the wind at our backs in the 1st & 3rd quarters we go into the 4th comfortably wining and the offense is deemed to have had a good game.

 

 

[Fixxxer]

After the 1st quarter, there were no motion by the WRs, this helps Allen a lot to divise what the defense is trying to do. When we stopped using McKenzie in that regard., Beasley should have been the key to break this game wide open. 

Lots of miscomunication between Allen and the WR at times. 

 

At times we're our worst enemy. 

[Dopey]

According to Pro Football Reference, we've scored the 3rd most points of ANY team in the league!! 3rd guys, 3rd!

 

What the hell are any of you complaining about?!? What more do you want?!?

 

While I'm at it, we're #1 in points against too! 

 

IMO,  any complainer is a dumb@$$!

 

Phew, that felt good!

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

I think Dabol's lack of feel for the game cost us in our first match-up against the Pats.  We have the better QB and we need to show it on Saturday, I also believe Sean needs to drop his loyalty towards Beasley and play Mackenzie more.  Until the Pats show they can defend him with one guy you keep running plays for him. They tried covering him with one player in our last match-up and he torched them.  

 

I've also felt that the Bills seem to have more success early and late.. at the start when they're running the gameplan they developed for the team and then late when they just end up turning it over to Josh. Those middle parts of the game where I'd expect Daboll is calling plays based on feel seem to be pretty brutal. 

 

All that said, they forced the ball to Davis and he dropped it like 74 times on some really catchable balls in this last game. Again though... that clearly wasn't working.. why are you going back to that well? They've seemed to have a problem with this 'forcing' things that aren't working. It's felt like some arrogance of "Well, we're not good at this, but we're gonna keep trying it because we need to be better at it and you guys can be our practice team!" then it if it's game they're in trouble, they go back to what they're good at.. and too many times this season, it's been too late. 

[hondo in seattle]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So while the OC is ultimately accountable for that.... the true fault for that level of detail is the position coaches. That is on Chad Hall and Rob Boras IMO. 

 

True enough Gunner.  But who chooses the position coaches?  McD?  Or does Daboll get to hire who he wants?

 

I'm guessing Daboll gets to hire his own position coaches.  If so, he has to own their work.  

[Since1981]

They need to keep McKenzie and Singletary, knox on field. Adjust plays with personnel on field. You can do wildcat or RPO or pass or whatever with this trio. Defense does not know what to expect based on this alignment. The good. 

 

Josh wildcat/WR, the ugly. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

True enough Gunner.  But who chooses the position coaches?  McD?  Or does Daboll get to hire who he wants?

 

I'm guessing Daboll gets to hire his own position coaches.  If so, he has to own their work.  

 

I don't think Daboll hired any of these guys. They are all connected to McDermott and Beane. 

 

Boras - pre-dates Daboll

Hall - pre-dates Daboll (although has been promoted since)

Dorsey - Carolina connection

Johnson - he was hired post Daboll and could have had Daboll input. 

 

I actually like our staff. But the detail on routes and stuff that is really on them. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Daboll has the bad habit of calling way too many passing plays in high winds, and abandoning the run when it's actually working. 

 

We had 20 straight passing plays (18 pass attempts, 2 JA scrambles)! In a game where the wind was having an obvious effect on QBs and punters.  

 

Very reminiscent of the Ravens playoff game. 

[Bob in STL]

Daboll is overall very good but my criticism of him Is a lot of cute plays in the red zone that are low percentage chances.  That and the inability to adapt to the bad weather at home games.  That means run more to set up the strong arm of Allen.  Without a run game Allen will be throwing into heavy coverage packages plus wind.  Make the other team cheat up on the run and Allen will have more open receivers.  
 

The marginal run game (when you take out Allen’s running) is probably due to personnel. Most of the season the OG play was very poor.  We have no blocking TE.   Other than Singletary’s recent late season play, we don’t get much from the RB position. 
 

[Wayne Cubed]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

My thoughts:

 

1. All offensive coordinators, every single one of them, get too much criticism from fans for playcalling whereas players get too little blame for poor execution. In general I think this is the case with this board's approach to Daboll and particularly this year. The Bills ended the regular season 5th in yards and 3rd in points and that is with only two elite talents on the entire offense and only 1 guy who was drafted in the first round. Their 3rd best offensive player (Dawkins has really only hit his straps the last month after being way below his best most of the year). 

 

2. However, there are legitimate grounds to criticise Brian Daboll's playcalling and, particularly, use of personnel. I think we have seen far too much reliance on the older guys - Sanders and Beasley - because Daboll trusts them to run the right routes and make the right route adjustments based on personnel. It was interesting that there was that series where Josh had miscommunications with Knox and Davis because they had read one thing off the coverage and Josh had read another. That is the thing with the E-P offense. It puts a lot of responsibility on your receivers to make the same read and adjustment as your Quarterback. People talk about how rookie receivers always bust in New England - some of that is the same thing. 

 

3. I think his redzone playcalling at times this year is confusing. He clearly (and understandably) doesn't trust the offensive line to hold up in the redzone where the defense can use the extra defender of the lines in coverage and throw an extra guy at the pass rush. That is why he tries to back them off with the threat of the run and RPO looks. The problem is that despite them trying to force it the Bills are just bad at executing those plays when Josh does anything other than keep it. Singletary isn't really that type of back and our offensive line isn't great at run blocking where it can't just get a head of steam up and barrel into the defenders in front of it. I am less bothered than most fans by the gimmick plays.... but I was concerned especially early in the season by the lack of plays being called down there where the ball was thrown into the endzone. That has got marginally better as we have gone along. 

 

4. On redzone efficiency - most surprising stat of the day? The Bills were more efficient scoring touchdowns in the redzone in 2021 than in 2020 (62.3% vs 61.04%).

 

5. As the season has gone on they have clearly made more of an effort to establish the run. I am all but convinced that comes from the Head Coach who is fine being pass heavy when the passing game is humming but gets instinctively nervous about it when the passing game stalls. The problem is Josh Allen is not the same Quarterback in a run heavy scheme as he in a pass heavy scheme. Josh is a rhythm guy. He gets in his rhythm and dialled in and he is borderline unstoppable. When you are running the ball a lot and asking him to make 2 or 3 throws per drive he isn't the same player. Run, run, 3rd down pass, is normally followed by a punt. Daboll has struggled trying to face both ways - on the one hand his boss's desire to run the ball more and on the other his Quarterback's need to get into rhythm. 

 

6. And to follow on from the end of point 5, yesterday was the nadir of that confusion. The playcalling yesterday was a mess. Disjointed, lacking in clarity of thought and process. There is no path to the Superbowl for the Bills this way. They have to get back to their identity on offense and that is the ball in Josh Allen's hands. I am fine giving Motor 15 or so carries. Yesterday we had 15 passes to 14 running back carries at one point. That is not the way this team wins. It wins on Josh Allen's right arm and, at times, Josh Allen's legs. I am fine with trying to diversify but not if it limits the impact of Josh Allen. That is akin to taking your best player off the field. 

 

 

I'd agree with this and while many people would point to a string of bad play calling for Allen yesterday against the Jets, I'll point to execution. The Jets were in man coverage, and were very tight in that man coverage. You have to absolutely execute to beat that man coverage and that's on the players. 

 

Saying that, I think Josh would have normally punished the Jets with his runs in those situations but they certainly weren't going to risk that this week. Josh also needs to lean on Beasely when these situations come up and he did try to hit and just was off target.

 

Completely agree with 5 and 6, Josh is not a WCO Quarterback, he needs the rhythm and maybe that's also what happened in the middle of the Jets game.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Wayne Cubed

[Mango]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I think someone did a statistical breakdown of this.  The run game is more effective with Allen under center but the pass game is less effective.

So the Bills mostly run when Josh is under center.

Defenses have learned this tendency so it's become harder to run from this formation as the D is waiting for it.  

Which is wild because we run a ton of time play action, more than anybody in the league. 
 

I love Josh, but this seems like a QB issue not a problem play calling issue if this is in fact the case.